Two feet where? [Archive] - CASC Ontario Region Message Forums

P.Po

12-12-2006, 10:12 AM

I have been watching a lot of SCCA, BTTC, DTM, and MX-5 Cup races lately. What a huge difference in the quality of the drivers between the BTCC, DTM, and SCCA, MX-5 Cup.

The MX-5 Cup drivers SEEM to be the worst. I saw at least one dangersouns spin, and one VERY dangerous crash that could have been a lot less dangerous if the drivers had put two feet in (ie. Clutch and Hard Brake). Thinking back, I don't think this was even covered in the race school I attended for my CASC license.

How many CASC drivers do you think actually know when to use "two feet in"? I know some VERY high quality drivers exist in CASC, but is the casual racer aware how much carnage that technique can save?

(On a side note, don't get me started on the number of drivers on TV and in CASC who I see try to YANK the car back on the track when they put two wheels on the grass.)

Comments?

Cheers,
Patrick

thgear

12-12-2006, 11:56 AM

P.Po

12-12-2006, 12:05 PM

and isnt "two feet in" kinda natural? i actualy had to train myself AGAINST clutching while braking for daily driving....

Uhhh... I meant when you loose control, or about to lose control, you press in the clutch and JAM the brake as hard as you can so the car will rotate around the axis of momentum. This prevents the car from eventually hooking up and darting across the track at high speeds and potentially hitting other cars.

During the MX-5 race on TV, a driver did not put two feet in when they should have, darted across the track and smacked into another inocent car.

I guess I wasn't clear...

P

thgear

12-12-2006, 12:10 PM

Uhhh... I meant when you loose control, or about to lose control, you press in the clutch and JAM the brake as hard as you can so the car will rotate around the axis of momentum. This prevents the car from eventually hooking up and darting across the track at high speeds and potentially hitting other cars.

During the MX-5 race on TV, a driver did not put two feet in when they should have, darted across the track and smacked into another inocent car.

I guess I wasn't clear...

P

well sometimes you just gotta let things ride out on their own....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-S9iOMIx44

:)

JT_TT_DS

12-12-2006, 12:32 PM

During the MX-5 race on TV, a driver did not put two feet in when they should have, darted across the track and smacked into another inocent car.

I guess I wasn't clear...

P

Was that the limerock race where they were 3 wide and the car on the outside car started slideing and he kinda bumped thru the line and the inside car had a very specatular run into the tires and flipped over?

i saw that the other day at lunch, it was quite the wipe out. definitly needs to be more DTM on TV, i love watching that stuff. they are freaking fast and very very precise.

Jason Sharpe

12-12-2006, 12:52 PM

will an MX5 even lock the brakes up?

tony mcgrath

12-12-2006, 01:12 PM

will an MX5 even lock the brakes up?

If the ABS is still connected then no, and the kind of stuff they showed on TV will happen. ABS is a real double edged sword: it can save your butt on occasion and it can bury you too...

tony

P.Po

12-12-2006, 01:23 PM

Was that the limerock race where they were 3 wide and the car on the outside car started slideing and he kinda bumped thru the line and the inside car had a very specatular run into the tires and flipped over?

That is one of the incidents I was reffering too... However, I seem to notice the lack of "Two Feet In" during a lot of spins in general.

The ABS does bring up a good point... I guess it would be a fair assumption to assume that the MX-5 Cup cars come standard with ABS.

How many people here have actually used "Two Feet In" when the get into trouble on track??

Thanks,
Patrick

ScotcH

12-12-2006, 01:29 PM

That is one of the incidents I was reffering too... However, I seem to notice the lack of "Two Feet In" during a lot of spins in general.

The ABS does bring up a good point... I guess it would be a fair assumption to assume that the MX-5 Cup cars come standard with ABS.

How many people here have actually used "Two Feet In" when the get into trouble on track??

Thanks,
Patrick

I have, and I managed to flip the car when is hit the tire wall. If I'd actually tried to power away from the wall, it might have not happened. I guess it's situation based.

JT_TT_DS

12-12-2006, 01:56 PM

How many people here have actually used "Two Feet In" when the get into trouble on track??

I've used it once at an autocross, my second run in my friends 500hp camaro (it's a freaking fast ESP car handles like a way smaller car, and nothing like a camaro) and well i came thru a sweeper and the back end wanted to go thru faster then the front. we have a gravel runnoff but after that is stacks of picnic tables and a large fence. my first reaction was a tad bit more throttle to get a bit more grip and catch it, only a fraction of a second of that made me go to plan B which was "two feet in" and spun the car. I was safe, the car was fine but i was only traveling at ~85 km/h so not at all like if i would have that same car on a road course where it will eat up 911's and could be doing upwards of 250. i think the two feet in manuver is for when you already have started the spin.

G-ForceJunkie

12-12-2006, 09:34 PM

How many people here have actually used "Two Feet In" when the get into trouble on track??

Thanks,
Patrick
Quite a few times :D

Pete@Marcor

12-13-2006, 08:43 AM

If the ABS is still connected then no, and the kind of stuff they showed on TV will happen. ABS is a real double edged sword: it can save your butt on occasion and it can bury you too...

tony

If you "spike" the pedal as hard, and as quickly as possible, it is possible to lock the brakes on an ABS equipped car. The problem is that you have to lock all 4 tires at the same time, so that you have no interference from the ABS controller.

Maybe your feet are getting slower Tony? Losing the touch? :D

slai

12-13-2006, 09:07 AM

Did a both feet in at Mosport T2 this year when I came to the conclusion I wasn't going to save it. :o

Pete@Marcor

12-13-2006, 09:18 AM

Quite a few times :D

Did a both feet in at Mosport T2 this year when I came to the conclusion I wasn't going to save it.

Quitters.:rolleyes:

Bubblecar

12-13-2006, 09:36 AM

How many people here have actually used "Two Feet In" when they get into trouble on track??

Thanks,
Patrick

Have a look -

http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave1of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave2of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave3of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave4of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave5of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave6of9.jpg (http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave6of9.jpg)
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave7of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave8of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave9of9.jpg

That was corner 3 at Mosport. Ended up not touching anything :eek: and rejoined the race (from a dead stop - "after" the entire field passed).

Nothing damaged but my ego - finished 6th out of 16.

(Photos by Liz Somers)

slai

12-13-2006, 09:56 AM

Quitters.:rolleyes:

A quitter who drove the car home! :D

inoverdrive

12-13-2006, 10:14 AM

Have a look -

http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave1of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave2of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave3of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave4of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave5of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave6of9.jpg (http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave6of9.jpg)
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave7of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave8of9.jpg
http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave9of9.jpg

That was corner 3 at Mosport. Ended up not touching anything :eek: and rejoined the race (from a dead stop - "after" the entire field passed).

Nothing damaged but my ego - finished 6th out of 16.

(Photos by Liz Somers)

Nick.
I would have to say.....you had a horseshoe up your $ss that day. LOL

P.Po

12-13-2006, 10:30 AM

Have a look -

http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave1of9.jpg <snip>...

That was corner 3 at Mosport. Ended up not touching anything :eek: and rejoined the race (from a dead stop - "after" the entire field passed).

Nothing damaged but my ego - finished 6th out of 16.

(Photos by Liz Somers)

Hey! I saw you pull that off!! I was watching from the outside of three... it was certainly exciting...

cheers,
P

tony mcgrath

12-13-2006, 11:37 AM

If you "spike" the pedal as hard, and as quickly as possible, it is possible to lock the brakes on an ABS equipped car. The problem is that you have to lock all 4 tires at the same time, so that you have no interference from the ABS controller.

Maybe your feet are getting slower Tony? Losing the touch? :D

I think the "spike the brake pedal" thing is going to be car and tire dependent to a large degree. I'd actually like to see that happen before I believe it. ( I'm from Missouri- the "show me" state;))

I know in Nicks Viper I had a moment where i spiked that brake pedal into the floorpan, it didnt lock up the wheels. :( Had to bring out the duct tape after that one. On many other occasions I was experimenting with spiking the pedal vs. quick firm application and the tires would never lock no matter what, but the car was always faster if you could just use the absolute minimum of abs.

The size and grip level of the slicks plus the weight distribution over each wheel and the initial bite of the brake pad will determine if all the wheels will lock up simultaneously. On Darth Viper they wont.

As to the slow feet thing- yeah probably- but a 1:22.2 in traffic at Mosport kept me from falling asleep at the wheel - long enough to get back to the trailer for a nap. :)
And with a few improvements to the car , further data analysis and some quality track time I think Blaise's GT-1 track record 1:20.7 may not make it through next season. ;)

Here's to hoping!

tony

tony mcgrath

12-14-2006, 10:58 AM

Have a look -

http://www.nickmajors.com/nicesave1of9.jpg

That was corner 3 at Mosport. Ended up not touching anything :eek: and rejoined the race (from a dead stop - "after" the entire field passed).

Nothing damaged but my ego - finished 6th out of 16.

(Photos by Liz Somers)

I think thats when we realized just how effective that front splitter was - as a shovel! :)

I still remember the 5 buckets of gravel that came out of the front splitter area 14 laps later. We had our own sandbox in the pits for the kids to play in after that one. ;)

Tony