3SGTE swapped Celica classing

[jduffett]

So, a guy I know has a '92 Celica GT with a JDM 3SGTE in it. He is wondering how that gets classed. I'm not all that familiar with Toyotas, but from what he says, the JDM motor is no different than the NA-market All-trac motor, aside from the ECU, which is irrelevant as he is running a stand-alone. So it would seem he could swap it in under update/backdate, however there is a clause in there saying that parts swapped must come from vehicles of the same body configuration and type and the same drive train configuration as that on which the component will be installed. Since his car is FWD, and (as far as I am aware), the 3SGTE was not offered in a FWD, my interpretation of this is that he is SOL and has to go to a mod class. Correct?

[Wedge]

So, a guy I know has a '92 Celica GT with a JDM 3SGTE in it. He is wondering how that gets classed. I'm not all that familiar with Toyotas, but from what he says, the JDM motor is no different than the NA-market All-trac motor, aside from the ECU, which is irrelevant as he is running a stand-alone. So it would seem he could swap it in under update/backdate, however there is a clause in there saying that parts swapped must come from vehicles of the same body configuration and type and the same drive train configuration as that on which the component will be installed. Since his car is FWD, and (as far as I am aware), the 3SGTE was not offered in a FWD, my interpretation of this is that he is SOL and has to go to a mod class. Correct?

Yup, D-mod. No choice on this one.
If it was a 4th gen celica with a 3S-GTE swap, you could just claim 4 points for the turbo and run in SP. But the 5th gen Celica never came with the 3S-GE, not in north america anyway.

[Guillermo]

For a modified car to have any hope in being competitively classed within the Ontario Regional Autoslalom rules it requires starting with a stock car and wisely making changes after studying the rules.

The Solosprint rules on the other hands are designed in a brilliant linear classification system that allows any car with almost any worthwhile modification to be classed fairly competitively.

Just tell your friend to not worry about how competitive the car would be and just come out for the fun of it. Many club autoslaloms like HADA series would likely classify his car more fairly then the Ontario Regional Autoslalom rules.

[DareBee]

Just remember JD - we are mazda guys - bring your buddy to PITTL FIRST, then you can go to HADA if you want.

[jduffett]

Ha, well, he's in Newfoundland... I'll ask him, but I don't think he'll be very keen...

Thanks all, thas what I figured...

[nrg3k_civic]

sorry for hijacking the thread, but i'm curious how my setup would be classed, based on this discussion. I have a 1992 civic cx with a JDM si motor (same 1.5L but with vtec for 130hp vs the stock 100). i've also swapped suspension to PIC coilovers (14k/12k).... What class does this put me in? what kinds of cars would i be competing against? I know at PITL i was D-MOD just for the motor swap which put me against turbo'd FWD cars.

Not too likely that i'll do the regionals.. just club events. thanks!

DJM:>

[JoeT]

sorry for hijacking the thread, but i'm curious how my setup would be classed, based on this discussion. I have a 1992 civic cx with a JDM si motor (same 1.5L but with vtec for 130hp vs the stock 100). i've also swapped suspension to PIC coilovers (14k/12k).... What class does this put me in? what kinds of cars would i be competing against? I know at PITL i was D-MOD just for the motor swap which put me against turbo'd FWD cars.

Not too likely that i'll do the regionals.. just club events. thanks!

DJM:>

Looks like you'll be in C-Mod. As for cars you'll be facing, I think there's a nice copper corolla with a 1.8 and an SC coming out this year. Tom is pretty quick (don't let him know I said that). I think you'll have fun in that class.

[Wedge]

I have a 1992 civic cx with a JDM si motor (same 1.5L but with vtec for 130hp vs the stock 100).

I don't know Honda motors. But if it's EXACTLY the same motor, the ONLY difference being the vtec, then you might be able to claim 4 points for engine mods, and you'd be in FSP.

[JoeT]

I don't know Honda motors. But if it's EXACTLY the same motor, the ONLY difference being the vtec, then you might be able to claim 4 points for engine mods, and you'd be in FSP.


Good point.. LOL We need more people in FSP.

[gatherer]

as far as I know, if it's the same engine I'm thinking of it has a different stroke... which would be C-Mod ... (of course I could be wrong on that)

[max attack]

Looks like you'll be in C-Mod. As for cars you'll be facing, I think there's a nice copper corolla with a 1.8 and an SC coming out this year. Tom is pretty quick (don't let him know I said that). I think you'll have fun in that class.

Actually its a sc'd 1600 which corrected for boost puts it over the c-mod engine size of 2.0ltr so it's d-mod for me.There's still a certain crazy fast john deer green vw in c-mod to run with if he runs any regionals this year.
I used to be fairly quick,I'm out of practice,old and washed up now so d-mod guys shouldn't have anything to worry about from me.:)

[yellowhotshoe]

Tom,will we see you at TLMC this year? I guess you and your modesty will run in Class 2 since you'll be slow...:rolleyes:

As for those with questions about classing and not wishing to run Regionals, try Twin Lakes Motor Club in Barrie. Laid back, no classes, they split the days entries into 4 groups based on times after the first run. It makes for a fun day trying not to run too fast for your class (but still run in the top 3 for that group). Kinda like bracket racing for the autocrosser.

[retro_mike]

Good point.. LOL We need more people in FSP.

Be careful what you wish for! (cue sinister laugh)

[max attack]

Tom,will we see you at TLMC this year? I guess you and your modesty will run in Class 2 since you'll be slow...:rolleyes:

As for those with questions about classing and not wishing to run Regionals, try Twin Lakes Motor Club in Barrie. Laid back, no classes, they split the days entries into 4 groups based on times after the first run. It makes for a fun day trying not to run too fast for your class (but still run in the top 3 for that group). Kinda like bracket racing for the autocrosser.

Craig,Lisa and I are TLMC members again this year(couple years away from the club)just so we could run the club series.I understand the classing so I guess I'll be gunning for ftd,a certain pretty yellow cobra might have something else to say eh?.

I should send you a couple of current pics,it's all coming together now!.

[Pete@Marcor]

as far as I know, if it's the same engine I'm thinking of it has a different stroke... which would be C-Mod ... (of course I could be wrong on that)

Actually, since the base car was a CX, it originally came with a 1.5L engine, with the same stroke as the JDM D15 VTEC that is now in the car.

I really do not want to get into another long discussion about model interchange, but it is conceivable that this engine combination could be in FSP. Since the block is identical to the OE block, it is legal in SP. He has changed the head, but not the position of the camshaft. Other points for things like intake manifold change, exhaust manifold change, and stuff like that will need to be added. This is possibly an FSP car.

Even if it were a stroked engine, it is still possibly a DSP car.

HOWEVER, we all need to remember about the rule book, and the beginning of it. For the final word, ASK THE SOLO DIRECTOR.

[13inches]

HOWEVER, we all need to remember about the rule book, and the beginning of it. For the final word, ASK THE SOLO DIRECTOR.Of course, you don't just ask, but provide all of the pertinent information (ie: I've changed the IM, header, ecu, half of the wiring harness, the block is the same but the head is different etc etc etc) so he can make a ruling. So before you go asking Wes, DO YOUR RESEARCH!

[MastaDeeMon]

I've been through this and it's why my CRX now sits with it's stock CDM motor:)

JDM motor means automatic MOD classification.

I've been through this and it kept me from competing a few years back.

I beat this one to death trying to get past it, bad idea.

Darren

[Pete@Marcor]

I've been through this and it's why my CRX now sits with it's stock CDM motor:)

JDM motor means automatic MOD classification.

I've been through this and it kept me from competing a few years back.

I beat this one to death trying to get past it, bad idea.

Darren

Darren, I remember conversations that you and I have had regarding this.

JDM engines do not mean automatic MOD. But, the blocks HAVE to be identical to the CDM/USDM versions.

[MastaDeeMon]

The way it was explained to me was JDM = MOD. I had a JDM D15B in my Civic which meant it was the equivalent to my orig. CX D15B7 but with a VTEC head.

Didn't matter, I was in MOD. Hell I was in C-Mod at PITL for frig's sake.

But that was back when I used to race only to win, not for the fun of it. I was was really stupid then. Now I plan to participate in the Provincial AutoX series for fun in my CRX, but I left the stock engine in just because of this rule. I had planned on a SOHC ZC non-vtec which is identical in block and head type but I was told quite frankly that JDM = MOD, and I no longer have any issue with that, so the stock engine remains.:cool:

Darren

[nrg3k_civic]

I think i'm gonna just screw myself to compete against faster cars. although the motor is a stock JDM D15B (no intake or anything), i'm replacing the supension with PIC coilovers. C or maybe B-MOD i guess... i'm doubt i'll make regionals with this setup.

DJM:>

[tanney]

Please ignore the rest of the posts and read what Pete has to say. The car will be a D or F Street Prepared car. If it is VTEC, then DSP. If it is nonVTEC, FSP.

I think i'm gonna just screw myself to compete against faster cars. although the motor is a stock JDM D15B (no intake or anything), i'm replacing the supension with PIC coilovers. C or maybe B-MOD i guess... i'm doubt i'll make regionals with this setup.

DJM:>

[MastaDeeMon]

I guess the rules have changed, good to see.

Can anybody explain why, and when they changed?

[20v102]

I've been through this and it's why my CRX now sits with it's stock CDM motor:)

JDM motor means automatic MOD classification.

I've been through this and it kept me from competing a few years back.

I beat this one to death trying to get past it, bad idea.

Darren

Ive been through this same issue with my corolla. I just pulled the 20v swap a few weeks ago tp to back to the stock motor. Was a sad weekend. My user id on here is a lie now :p
Ah well, FSP here I come.

[JoeT]

Ive been through this same issue with my corolla. I just pulled the 20v swap a few weeks ago tp to back to the stock motor. Was a sad weekend. My user id on here is a lie now :p
Ah well, FSP here I come.


YAY!!!