insurance coverage for your "daily"

[finboy]

one of my miata friend owners was getting some insurance info from HER company (who she's with)

and the insurance company noticed she had a roll bar installed in the car.

no biggie right?

the insurance company then asked "why do you have a roll bar, do you autoslalom or street race"

she was :eek: and said ahhh NO have you seen what a rolled miata looks like?

I guess what i'm asking is...

have you guys/gals heard of any insurance coverage issues with your daily drivers?

With the whole crack down on "modified" cars, manufacuters are looking for easy reasons to void a warranty and insurance companies are looking to get rid of a bunch "high risk" policies.

Someone told me in the states, they only run Car number and make/model for posting results on the web

and keep all other DRIVER details OFF the web.


any thoughts on this?

it kind of scares me what you can find on the web

[Marsh]

Tell me about it. At the last KOTH race the Free Press published my full name and license plate! At another TPC meet a picture of my car showing the front plate appeared in full colour in the National Post. Very NOT cool!

[pokey1]

So now you'll have to remove your license plate before events in addition to all the other things you may already do...

You lose both ways: you're trying to attract sponsors with promises of your car in print BUT you don't want your car in print for fear of insurance reprisals...
:(

[Chris P]

Originally posted by finboy
[B]

Someone told me in the states, they only run Car number and make/model for posting results on the web

and keep all other DRIVER details OFF the web.
[B]


Where on earth did you here about that?

Have a look at the SOLO 2 nat results. those 49 Z06 owners are gonna be mighty pissed that there car and name was mentioned......... :rolleyes:

perhaps some local clubs are resorting to only showing numbers ??


If anything we should be getting a insurence BREAK!!! not increase or terminations........

[finboy]

:confused:

beats me... i'm posting this to see if anyone has experienced
stuff like this in our area...

who knows... it could be in the near future

nothing surprises me anymore... specially when it comes to gett'n screw'd by the government & insurance



dt

[finboy]

Originally posted by Marsh
Tell me about it. At the last KOTH race the Free Press published my full name and license plate! At another TPC meet a picture of my car showing the front plate appeared in full colour in the National Post. Very NOT cool!

in your case, i thought the COCKY GUY would love the attention?

[Keith-02Accord]

Don't even get me started on insurance companies. I could be here all friggin' day airing my beefs. :mad:

The way I see it, participating in Solo 1 or Solo 2 should have absolutely NO effect on premiums, even if your insurer knows that you do it.

First of all, the events are completely legal. Second of all, your policy would not cover your vehicle in the event something did happen while you were participateing in Solo 1 or 2 anyway.

[pokey1]

The word "race" puts a bad taste in every insurers mouth.... whether leagal or not, they see it as dangerous - when in actuality autocross is probably safer than going to the grocery store. I haven't been around the sport too long but I haven't heard of two cars crashing into each other during an event.

Soon everyone who wants to have anything to do with motorsports will have to have a second "race" car that gets trailered to the venue... too bad most of us can't afford to do that :(

[Marsh]

The problem is that they know there are people that do damage at the race track and put it on there insurance. I know of people on this board that have witnessed it happen. A couple of bad apples do something stupid and the insurance company holds it against everyone. That's the whole point of insurance.

[TYSON]

I had this happen last year. My car was stolen from my driveway. When the insurance appraiser saw all the shiny things under the hood he called the adjuster and told her not to insure my car because it was a "race" car. I had a bottle of NOS brand octane boost in a storage compartment behind the seat, so I had NAWS and was from 'The Fast & Furious' suddenly. My policy states illegal use includes racing, though it does not state that the car will not be insured WHILE racing. Since they had no proof I had ever raced my car (and I hadn't) they had to insure it.

Please discuss this with your insurance company. Some don't mind insuring a modified car, but you still have to tell them up front. Get it in writing from someone with authority at your insurance company that it is OK to run in sanctioned racing events, as long as you understand it will not be insured AT the event.

[finboy]

Originally posted by TYSON
I had this happen last year. My car was stolen from my driveway. When the insurance appraiser saw all the shiny things under the hood he called the adjuster and told her not to insure my car because it was a "race" car. I had a bottle of NOS brand octane boost in a storage compartment behind the seat, so I had NAWS and was from 'The Fast & Furious' suddenly. My policy states illegal use includes racing, though it does not state that the car will not be insured WHILE racing. Since they had no proof I had ever raced my car (and I hadn't) they had to insure it.

Please discuss this with your insurance company. Some don't mind insuring a modified car, but you still have to tell them up front. Get it in writing from someone with authority at your insurance company that it is OK to run in sanctioned racing events, as long as you understand it will not be insured AT the event.

dats some scary shit!

[Chris91GT]

The insurance co. pulled coverage on the Mustang after we had it appraised. It wasn't really legal anyway, but that made it officially a trailer-queen.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Chris91GT
The insurance co. pulled coverage on the Mustang after we had it appraised. It wasn't really legal anyway, but that made it officially a trailer-queen.

dats STILL scary shit.....

[TYSON]

State farm is not accepting new auto customers:(

[JUSTABALDGUY]

Greetings People,
Some free insurance information.... As an Insurance Agent I may be able to shed some light on your insurance irritations. First of all Insurance companies are in the business of insuring risk. It's a crapshoot. They try to approximate how many of their policyholders will have claims, the frequency of those claims and the severity of them. From this data they then try and set the rates. Thus the # of claims and how bad they are drive an aggregate amount which is divided amonst the policyholders in that category. Lots of expensive claims from one particular category increase the rates for all of the people in that category. Don't shoot the messenger here but industry experience, as well as my own personal experience has shown that younger male drivers in certain vehicles have a higher propensity of having claims. Yes, I know about the old geezer that cut you off while he was struggling to see over the dashboard of his 81 Ford LTD Station Wagon. However, the reality of that old geezer's situation is that the Fire Department may spend 2 hours trying to revive him from having a heart attack but it is highly unlikely that they will be spending 2 hours extricating him from a telephone pole after hitting it at 100 mph. Can the same be said of you and I in our Honda Civic's and Mustangs? I think not. Like it or not we take more chances, drive smaller, faster cars and generally create more havoc. For this we have to pay... and we do. While I know we are all concerned about safety. However, you have to be honest with yourself here... Do you get more tickets than other people that you know? Have you been involved in more accidents either at fault or not at fault then other people that you know? Have you modified your car in ways that, while it is more fun to drive/looks better etc. has comprised any safety features? eg: wrong tires/ slamming it to the ground/ eye crossing camber settings/ 6 inch Monster tach complete with Prolite hanging off the windshield piller just waiting to smash your face in the event of an accident? etc. etc. etc. If you have answered yes to any of these questions then put yourself in the shoes of an insurance company... would you insure you? or would you rather insure Mr and Mrs Bland? Which one is more likely to cause the catastrophe?
Also, with respect to the issue of your insurance company not covering you if you have an accident at an autocross... that is not entirely true. While they may not cover the damage you inflict on your own automobile they will still be responsible for the people you may run over. This is called absolute liability. The innocent third party... the one who has your oilpan tatooed on his forehead can and will sue your insurance company and if you were even 1% negligent, he will win. So your insurance company doesn't have to fix your car... big deal... they save 10g's... the bigger problem is that they now have to pay 1 million dollars to the guy who you ran over. Oh and by the way, if they do pay this on your behalf.... get your chequebook out because they will probably want you to pay them back. A nice payment plan of 400 or 500 per week for the rest of your life will suffice....
Hope this helps,
Justabaldguy

[finboy]

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY
Greetings People,
Some free insurance information.... As an Insurance Agent I may be able to shed some light on your insurance irritations. First of all Insurance companies are in the business of insuring risk. It's a crapshoot. They try to approximate how many of their policyholders will have claims, the frequency of those claims and the severity of them. From this data they then try and set the rates. Thus the # of claims and how bad they are drive an aggregate amount which is divided amonst the policyholders in that category. Lots of expensive claims from one particular category increase the rates for all of the people in that category. Don't shoot the messenger here but industry experience, as well as my own personal experience has shown that younger male drivers in certain vehicles have a higher propensity of having claims. Yes, I know about the old geezer that cut you off while he was struggling to see over the dashboard of his 81 Ford LTD Station Wagon. However, the reality of that old geezer's situation is that the Fire Department may spend 2 hours trying to revive him from having a heart attack but it is highly unlikely that they will be spending 2 hours extricating him from a telephone pole after hitting it at 100 mph. Can the same be said of you and I in our Honda Civic's and Mustangs? I think not. Like it or not we take more chances, drive smaller, faster cars and generally create more havoc. For this we have to pay... and we do. While I know we are all concerned about safety. However, you have to be honest with yourself here... Do you get more tickets than other people that you know? Have you been involved in more accidents either at fault or not at fault then other people that you know? Have you modified your car in ways that, while it is more fun to drive/looks better etc. has comprised any safety features? eg: wrong tires/ slamming it to the ground/ eye crossing camber settings/ 6 inch Monster tach complete with Prolite hanging off the windshield piller just waiting to smash your face in the event of an accident? etc. etc. etc. If you have answered yes to any of these questions then put yourself in the shoes of an insurance company... would you insure you? or would you rather insure Mr and Mrs Bland? Which one is more likely to cause the catastrophe?
Also, with respect to the issue of your insurance company not covering you if you have an accident at an autocross... that is not entirely true. While they may not cover the damage you inflict on your own automobile they will still be responsible for the people you may run over. This is called absolute liability. The innocent third party... the one who has your oilpan tatooed on his forehead can and will sue your insurance company and if you were even 1% negligent, he will win. So your insurance company doesn't have to fix your car... big deal... they save 10g's... the bigger problem is that they now have to pay 1 million dollars to the guy who you ran over. Oh and by the way, if they do pay this on your behalf.... get your chequebook out because they will probably want you to pay them back. A nice payment plan of 400 or 500 per week for the rest of your life will suffice....
Hope this helps,
Justabaldguy


i just poo'd my pants

that is really scarey shit!!

[AcidGord]

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY
Can the same be said of you and I in our Honda Civic's and Mustangs? I think not. Like it or not we take more chances, drive smaller, faster cars and generally create more havoc. For this we have to pay... and we do. While I know we are all concerned about safety. However, you have to be honest with yourself here... Do you get more tickets than other people that you know? Have you been involved in more accidents either at fault or not at fault then other people that you know? Have you modified your car in ways that, while it is more fun to drive/looks better etc. has comprised any safety features? eg: wrong tires/ slamming it to the ground/ eye crossing camber settings/ 6 inch Monster tach complete with Prolite hanging off the windshield piller just waiting to smash your face in the event of an accident? etc. etc. etc. If you have answered yes to any of these questions then put yourself in the shoes of an insurance company... would you insure you? or would you rather insure Mr and Mrs Bland? Which one is more likely to cause the catastrophe?


Yeah but theres more of the question of the people who DON'T rice their cars 9 ways to sunday. There's a couple of difference categories of car owners here. There's the guy who slaps every piece of gear on his car he can squeeze out of his wallet, whether it makes sense or not. Turbo, NOS, pavement scraping springs, all manner of stupid/blinding lights, driving on Azenis in the snow. But those aren't generally the people who autocross. They may try it once or twice. But as soon as they realize how much they've damaged their car's handling they tend to either fix it or not come back.

People who autocross on a regular basis may very well do it in a 100% stock car. Every single piece right out of the showroom. Should they be penalized?

Taking it a step further the SERIOUS autocrossers and track racers may very well modify their cars within the limits of being street legal, but you can bet they're not driving around in vehicles with crappy ground clearance and bald, hard tires. They're the types to have a suspension setup on their car that, because of their track needs, can get themselves out of trouble much easier than the stock cars. And they've learned the skills with their track time to do so.

Then there's ANOTHER group of people who might have a properly done up car but have no concept of responsibility who tear around city streets like its a pylon course. Those... I dunno. :)

It all boils down to I'm glad I'm not in the insurance biz. :)

[Keith-02Accord]

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY
Also, with respect to the issue of your insurance company not covering you if you have an accident at an autocross... that is not entirely true. While they may not cover the damage you inflict on your own automobile they will still be responsible for the people you may run over. This is called absolute liability. The innocent third party... the one who has your oilpan tatooed on his forehead can and will sue your insurance company and if you were even 1% negligent, he will win. So your insurance company doesn't have to fix your car... big deal... they save 10g's... the bigger problem is that they now have to pay 1 million dollars to the guy who you ran over. Oh and by the way, if they do pay this on your behalf.... get your chequebook out because they will probably want you to pay them back. A nice payment plan of 400 or 500 per week for the rest of your life will suffice....
Hope this helps,
Justabaldguy

So then, what exactly is the event coverage for then?

[JUSTABALDGUY]

Event coverage will protect the organizers of the event from being sued in the event of a claim and it will also protect an innocent 3rd party who gets injured at a event by someone who is uninsured. It may also protect the participants in the event if they get sued. Different policies have different cover. The 2 points that I was getting at are A. The insurance companies are not always the bad guys and statistically us young guys cause more havoc and B. If you lie to your insurance company about your vehicle and it's modifications don't be so sure that they will protect you in the event of a claim. If you have misled them and cause a minor accident, in all probability they will pay. However, if you cause a million dollar catastrophe and have lied to the insurance company you have committed something called Material Misrepresentation and will probably find yourself without insurance when you most need it or paying back the company which made a payout on your behalf. The point of my post was to offer advice that the members might find helpful and protect themselves should something bad happen. Posession of the liability card does not guarantee coverage if you have misrepresented yourself to the company. In my opinion, having a false sense of security is the same as having none. Be honest, upfront and clear the air when you buy the policy and if something happens, sit back, relax and sleep well.
JUSTABALDGUY

[Brent]

zero tickets, zero claims, zero accidents, generally have SUV's and minivans driving on my bumper.

If I hit someone on the course, I'm sueing them for wrecking my run. Would that be a two second penalty?

Maybe the smoke from my exhaust will cause a marshall to grow a tumor in his ass ten years from now and they will sue me for a million dollars. Oh god, I hope I'm covered.

How much is the insurance to make sure I don't get robbed and beaten?

[finboy]

Hey baldguy....

i have to change my underwear :eek: but regardless....

just wanted to say thanks for the info.


these forms of motorsports have been around for a while (just look at some of the competitors... hahaahaaha)

ALL the people involved, volunteering, organizing participating are excellent people.

everyone there is out for a FUN, these events start as early as 8am on weekends..

none of the "street racers" ever attend because they're still in bed, and their egos are too big to try these controlled, fun, competive forms of grassroots motorsports.

SAFTEY is always an issue..at these events


I posted this thread inquirng about the insurance thing and the crazy bill thats bugging the hell out of all the "car guys/gals" in ONTARIO

One thing that i found to be a slap in the face, was on tuesday night at the Car show..

Came across this Donated Honda CIVC moded with all the regular shit, and some blurb about how the metro coppers want to have a relationship with the rice/modified car crowd.

then at the same time this bill is being passed to curb modified cars all together!!

WTF?

[AcidGord]

Whats the proper course of action then to assure coverage? Its a Catch 22. If I go to my insurance agency and say that I've got adjustable shocks, sway bars, beefy springs, rims, good ties... all perfectly legitimate modifications that in my opinion ARE safety items. With the current climate one of two things are going to happen. I'm going to be paying $5000 a year tomorrow or I'm not going to have a policy anymore. But from whats said above I probably wouldn't have any coverage if anything major happened anyway for the same reason.

[Silver Fox]

WOW !!!........after reading this I'm glad my insurance agent is a personnal friend (who owns the business) and races as well !!

I never even gave my insurance a second thought.

Silver Fox

[GR8 Ride]

One thing you may find (we're finding this out now, with HIGHLY modified cars), is that Insurance companies are refusing to offer policies on them.

Items such as roll cages, harnesses, stainless steel brake lines etc which do not meet DOT or TC approval tend to get the Insurance companies looking. It's to the point now where my Insurance company is basically offering Fire, Theft and Vandalism on my car, but nothing beyond that (mostly due to the cage, which is quasi-street legal).

It's a dedicated race car, so I'm not overly concerned about it. But one needs to be cautious, as some events (BMW Club events at the moment) require that vehicles participating be insured and plated (which is difficult, if the vehicle isn't street legal).

I'm not sure what the policy is at Solo 1 events, but it's something to keep an eye on.

K&K Insurance may be able to shed some light on Motorsport specific policies, and could be worth a look if anyone is interested.


Pat

[TYSON]

No offence to you personally, but from my personal experience, that is a load of BS. I have been involved in 6, that's right, 6 collision insurance claims. One was caused by me. It was a dark rainy night and I did not see the stop sign until it was too late. One time I came back to my car in a parking lot and found a dent in my car. The 4 others were caused my men with gray hair.

One used my car to stop at a stop light, though he would have only gone another 6 feet anyway. The second was a truck driver who pulled out to pass someone while I was passing him, he only had to look down out of his cab to see me, I was not in any blind spot. The third was in a parking lot, he backed out of his spot while I was stopped behind him waiting to get on the street. I was there before he started his truck, even. The last was your 80 year old geezer who couldn't see that his light had been red for a good 20 seconds and he t-boned me. Had I been his age, I would have been in the hospital.

My insurance company tried to say I was racing my car to get out of a THEFT claim. My car was stolen from my driveway, I had a tracking company willing to testify to this. Oh, by the way, this is after I spent money out of MY pocket to install the tracking device, which kept them from having to pay a total loss. During there INVESTIGATION, they felt it was appropriate to ask me if I was part of a car club, and what cell phone company I was with. What do these have to do with a stolen car? It was not a scam, they only had to ask the police, they made at least one arrest and recovered 6 stolen vehicles, several stolen snowmobiles and other auto parts.

The insurance industry claims to run on statistics and have in depth knowledge of the auto industry, yet while investigating ME for the theft of MY car, they pronounced my extra bottle of octane boost as the weapon of mass destruction, NAAAWS. I am a threat to everyone one the road because I carry a bottle of NOS brand octane boost I bought at Canadian Tire.

Answer me this, as an insurance insider, WOULD I HAVE BEEN TREATED THIS WAY IF IT WAS A TWIN TURBO PORSCHE AND I WAS A FIFTY YEAR OLD LAWYER FROM ROSEDALE? No way in Hell, because they wouldn't have the guts!!
:mad:

[JUSTABALDGUY]

Whatever Dude...
Your profile indicates that you were born in 1976 so you have been driving for... what 10 years? AND YOU HAVE HAD 6 CLAIMS ALREADY???? I rest my case. You can get pissed off at me if you want but I and tens of thousands of others have driven 20+ years without ever having a claim. Why should my rates go up because of you? You are a bad risk. I've looked at thousands of Drivers Abstracts and Loss Historys and very few have 6 Claims in 10 years. Before you rant and ream an entire profession have a look in the mirror, and while you are at it, it wouldn't hurt to knock that chip off of your shoulder.
JUSTABALDBUY

[TYSON]

You missed the entire point. I caused one (1) accident. Four (4) were caused by men with gray hair. That is the point. They pay almost nothing for insurance, yet hit me in broad daylight in perfect weather. I get treated like a criminal when my car is stolen, that is all. Your patronizing attitude is exactly what I received from the insurance company here. SGI in Saskatchewan treats their clients far better, yet they have no competition for their customers to go to.

I have no problem with you, but I have been treated very poorly by insurance. Perhaps I have a bad insurance provider, I don't know.

[JUSTABALDGUY]

No, actually I got the point. The Grey haired guys that you refer to who caused the accidents that you were involved in have probably been driving for 50 or 60 years. Hence, they have been contributing premiums to pay for accidents for 50 or 60 years. No one expects you to drive forever without ever having a claim. However, the point that I was getting to which you so nicely illustrated was that younger drivers are involved in a disproportionately higher number of accidents when compared to the aggregate distance they have driven and their years on the road. You can rant and rail at the old timers if you want (I know that they cause havoc too) however the reality of their situation is that they have probably driven hundreds of thousands more miles in their lives then you. Statistically the more you drive the higher your chances of being involved in a claim. Skill of the driver notwithstanding. My reason for this post is simple, I am never going to meet you nor sell you insurance, I simply wanted to provide an insiders perspective into what is going on in the industry. If you were the insurance company would you insure a young driver in a sports car who has had x tickets and 6 claims in ten years or someone who drives a full size sedan and has had no tickets or accidents in the last 50 years? You can moan all you want but you will only be tilting at windmills. The proof is in the numbers and the numbers, as you yourself illustrate, speak for themselves. Sure the 50 year old guy in Rosedale with the Porsche would get good treatment. But then again if he were to have a claim every 1.5 years and been driving for 35 years his 50 or so insurance claims would have him paying 100g's per year in insurance premiums.
JUSTABALDGUY
P.S. Saskatchewan has a Government run insurance company that, while on the verge of bankruptcy, is also Government subsidized and is predjudiced against people with clean driving records. While that system might work for you... I resent paying for your inability to avoid accidents or to cause them. In Saskatchewan EVERYONE pays. No thanks.

[TYSON]

I see. So since they have been driving much longer they are free to hit whomever they please? Whether they have a clean driving record or not, I have no idea. I really doubt that in the period of time from their 43 - 50 birthdays they were hit by 4 people from the ages of 18 - 25, yet I believe they would have to if they were to break even with me.

How I am blamed for being rear ended at a stop light that had been red for some time, cut off by a truck when I could SEE the driver, backed into when I am not moving and had not moved since he had started his vehicle or hit by someone who ran a red light when my light had been green for half a block? (Holy run on sentence Batman) That one I could have avoided except for the wall next to my street that prevented me from seeing down the curb lane.

No one said I was in a sports car when all these people hit me. It WAS an 89 Camaro, which may as well be a family car with its size. Thank God I was in that car instead of an economy car when some of these people hit me, or I may be dead.

My point with the lawyer was this, when my Camaro was finally written off by the Geriatric, they tried to seriously low-ball me on the value. After 2 minutes of scanning the online Auto Trader, I found 6 cars similar to mine asking 3 - 4 times what they offered. After pointing this out and faxing these ads to the insurance adjuster, they came back with research showing my cars value to be TWICE what they had originally offered. How did they research the first offer? They didn't, they were just playing the NUMBERS that most people don't know much about their car, don't complain and take in the A$$ like they always have.

They also attempted to get out of insuring my theft claim. After the police had it impounded for one week, they delayed the repair another week while INVESTIGATING. Until I wrote them a letter pointing out that I did not race my car and that the questions they had asked me were a violation of my privacy. Within 1 hour they were calling me to tell me they would OK the repair. Was this because of the term "violation of privacy"? Something that sounds like my lawyer coached me to say? They also delayed the final repair for 6 months, even though I sent them letters from, and they spoke to, my mechanic and an experienced dealership on the matter. It was only after getting the names and numbers of a couple managers and sending THEM letters where I brought up the LAWYER word, was it OK to go ahead with the repair as they had been told by two experts. If I were a lawyer myself, they would realize I could haul them into court myself at no real cost.

I was not commenting on the financial state of SGI. I have no doubt they don't make a lot of money while charging 1/3 the rate of private insurance in Alberta and Ontario, I was only commenting on their customer service. I'm sure they don't pay out as much either, as the average farmer is not nearly as likely to sue for whiplash, soft tissue damage or emotional pain and suffering. I had no headaches with them, even though I was out of the province going to school and was on a first name basis with the adjuster who handled out of province claims.

I don't know what it was like here before they insurance companies had the government implement no fault insurance, but when dealing with SGI for 5 collisions, it was clear they were working for me. After 1 collision and 1 theft insured here in Ontario, it is clear my insurance company sees me an as opponent. I am to pay for the collision fully, BEFORE it happens if I am to get good service, as you pointed out yourself.

But, as you mentioned, I am tilting at windmills. The groups that get treated the worst also happen to have the least resources to fight back. You can resent paying for my INABILITY to avoid accidents all you like. You have again blamed me, while in 2 cases I was not even moving. To avoid those people, I would have had to drive into moving traffic, where I may have killed someone. In another, oncoming traffic was blocked from view by a wall, that was the only reason the little side street even had a signal light. The truck driver did not even bother to turn his head, maybe because he had been driving for 35 years and hundreds of thousands of kilometers more than me.

The fact that you are an insurance agent and have signed up for this forum only to defend insurance companies worries me a little. To me, this shows that our concerns about our insurance companies using the internet to search for people that race their cars is true. This only re-inforces the fact that we should not allow our names and car description to be posted online in event results. Please tell me what type of car you drive and in what events?

[Taylor]

Message removed until the identity of BaldGuy here is on the up and up....

Too bad, I had a lot of good points too.

Christ, now I'm paranoid too. Yeesh.

Course I'm not terribly secretive with what I do. :)

[Keith-02Accord]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with TYSON on this one.

JUSTABALD GUY, just because he has 6 claims in 10 years should mean absolutely NOTHING. If he is telling it like it is, then only 1 accident is his fault, the other 4 are not and in no way could he have avoided them. As for the theft, its not like his car was stolen on a regular basis.

It seems to me insurance companies love to use statistics so long as it is in their favour (i.e. 6 claims in 10 years), but they don't bother to look at the circumstances behind those numbers.

I'll give you a personal example.....my wife was in 2 accidents in 2 years.....neither her fault...our premiums went up. In both cases, she was rear-ended, one by a guy that was changing lanes and therefore was checking his blind spot, the other was by a moron reading his *&%$%&^$% mail. HOW THE HELL CAN ANYBODY AVOID THOSE ACCIDENTS???? I don't care how long you have been driving.

Another example of insurance co.'s doing what they want.....A friend of mine had his payments coming out automatically every month from his account (common practice). Well, one day, they tried to make the withdrawal 2 days early. He did not have the money in his account b/c he would transfer it from savings the day before it was supposed to come out. Well, he called them on it, they acknowledged THEIR OWN MISTAKE. but you know what.....they refused to take it off his abstract and as a result had to pay a slightly higher premium for 3 years due to a defaulted payment which wasn't his fault to begin with.

I can't wait to hear your defense on these.

[Taylor]

They're raising insurance premiums based on late payments? WTF? Tell me that's a joke?

Way too much power.

[Keith-02Accord]

Taylor,

Not only was it a late payment, it was the insurance co's own friggin mistake. Essentially, his premium was raised for not paying early!!

This was about 7-8 years ago, so I'm not sure they still do that.
If it happened to me, there would be hell to pay.

[JUSTABALDGUY]

"Insurance companies searching the internet to find out who races their car" Are you guys inhaling your Nitrous or what? Is there a new planet in our solar system called Paranoid? If you really think that insurance companies surf the net to look for people who race their cars then you've got waaaay bigger problems then insurance. You should see a Dr. and they may prescribe something for your paranoia. I would rather iron the lint in my belly button then devote 1 second of my time trying to surf the net to see who races cars... You have obviously waaaaaaay over emphasised your inportance to the insurance company. Drive normal, don't run into stuff and your insurance company could care less. Slam your car, put the wrong tires on it in January, smash yourself, and others to pieces and they will have plenty to say. Personally, i don't give a rat's ass if you know who I am or where I work but don't insult my intelligence by threatning to not post until you "find out who I am" Why will it make you feel better if you know who I am? So you can crank call me at 3am or come to my home and do a burnout in front of it. Ohh Ahh...
By the way don't expect me to believe the bullshit about raising the rates as a result of Not at Fault accidents... nice try.... it's not legal. The same goes with the story of a friend of a friend's insurance going up because the insurance company make a mistake and withdrew the money before the contracted date and then charged him more because of it.... didn't happen Dude.... also illegal. My email address is in my profile. Email me his name and drivers licence number and I will PROVE it didn't happen that way. We can argue all day but lets cut the bullshit and stick to the truth. If you have a TRUE (not urban legend) issue then I will address it, leave the fairytale bullshit to the children.
JUSTABALDGUY

[TYSON]

My rate went up 37% after a not at fault and theft last year. I know everyone got an insurance increase last year, but how much did yours go up?

[Brent]

An interesting point is that one person causes the accident and two people have their insurance rates increased.

Insurance companies don't insure your driving ability or your car, they insure the chances of you making a claim. Now they want to only insure people who will never make a claim. Sounds like a good scam if you can get away with it. That is like having an all you can eat buffet and not letting fat people in or charging them more because they will eat to much. Or better yet, tell everyone they have to pay more to make up for the fat guys but don't let the fat guys in.

Statisics show that if we never pay out, our profits are much larger.

I wonder what would happen if statistics showed that white people are more likely to make a claim. Would it be legal to charge you more for car insurance because you are white.

Age discrimination is a wonderful thing. It is the one area of discrimination that still florishes. It doesn't matter about race or sex, age discrimination is universally accepted.

What other industry has guaranteed profit besides insurance. Where else can you just figure out what it will cost you, add some profit to it and then charge everybody. Guaranteed profit and if you figured wrong or there was a disaster (hurricane etc.)you just increase the amount you charge everybody so that you can maintain your profit margin. What happens during a year where less claims are made than predicted? Do insurance companies send everybody a rebate? I didn't think so. What happens when insurance rates are raised because of a hurricane or 911? Do they go back down again after it is paid off? Hmmm I didn't think so.

Wasn't the purpose of no fault insurance was to save insurance companies money by limiting or removing your right to sue in the event of an accident.

A note for insurance companies, all the old drivers that you like, were once young and got screwed by insurance companies. We have not forgotten.

[JUSTABALDGUY]

17.5 % No Tickets, No Accidents, No Comp Claims.

[finboy]

this is a friendly forum..

guys better pull one off and chill out a bit


baldguy.. most of the people know each other in person.

this is a discussion board, for the local community to discuss
easy going motorsports/car related issues

for you to say this is totally wrong.

"Personally, i don't give a rat's ass if you know who I am or where I work but don't insult my intelligence by threatning to not post until you "find out who I am" Why will it make you feel better if you know who I am? So you can crank call me at 3am or come to my home and do a burnout in front of it. Ohh Ahh..."

These motorsports events are sponsered by Brand name companies, organized by really decent people.

let the flames end

[JUSTABALDGUY]

As posted earlier, it is not legal to surcharge for and accident in which you were not at fault. The fairytale notion that insurance companies don't charge for your driving ability or for your car but instead on your chances of making a claim is the dumbest thing I have heard all day. Did you read that before you posted it? Do a little research first before you pass yourself off as an expert. The goverment mandated no fault- not the insurance companies. It was done to limit the amount of litigation brought because of frivolous claims. The real money is still paid out under Liability and Accident Benefits.

Sorry but as far as just "figure our what it will cost you, add some profit to it and charge everybody" Sorry, but it's not quite that simple. If it were then please explain why every insurance company isn't busting the doors down for your business? Please explain to me why Markham General went bankrupt, Kingsway General is threatning to pull out of Ontario, State Farm and Liberty Mutual arn't accepting new clients? Don't they like to wipe their asses in $100 bills too? Give your head a shake!

Don't give me the crap about Age Discrimination Blah blah blah. this is really is just you whining and trying to throw up a smokescreen avoiding the point. YOUNGER DRIVERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MODIFIED CARS CONTRIBUTE CAUSE A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER PROPERTION OF CLAIMS AND AS SUCH PAY MORE INSURANCE PERIOD!!!!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND????? Stop whining. You cause more accidents, you pay more. Period, end of story, no encore. Why do you insist on disputing the indisputable?

JUSTABALDGUY

[TYSON]

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY
As posted earlier, it is not legal to surcharge for and accident in which you were not at fault.

Why did my insurance increase 37% while yours increased 17.5%?

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY

The fairytale notion that insurance companies don't charge for your driving ability or for your car but instead on your chances of making a claim is the dumbest thing I have heard all day. Did you read that before you posted it?

What are you saying here? That insurance companies charge based on your chance of making a claim or your driving ability and car? To me it sounds like you are saying that NOT charging based on your driving ability and car is a fairy tale. That would mean they DO charge based on driving ability and car, correct? Throw in a personal insult here, just what any debater needs to prove a good point.

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY

Do a little research first before you pass yourself off as an expert. The goverment mandated no fault- not the insurance companies. It was done to limit the amount of litigation brought because of frivolous claims. The real money is still paid out under Liability and Accident Benefits.

Who benefits from this? The insurance company benefits, that's for damn sure. If it limits litigation, why is it now possible and reccomended to buy $2 million worth of liability instead of the old $1 million? Do you think a lobby of 18 - 24 year old male drivers pushed to have the government implement this? I think a lobby of bankers would have a lot more power here. Another personal insult.


Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY

Sorry but as far as just "figure our what it will cost you, add some profit to it and charge everybody" Sorry, but it's not quite that simple. If it were then please explain why every insurance company isn't busting the doors down for your business? Please explain to me why Markham General went bankrupt, Kingsway General is threatning to pull out of Ontario, State Farm and Liberty Mutual arn't accepting new clients? Don't they like to wipe their asses in $100 bills too? Give your head a shake!

Why bust down the door, when it is the law to buy it? Everyone will have to spend their money somewhere, offer similar rates as everyone else and you will get your share without spending any advertising dollars. Not a lot of funeral homes advertise agressively, maybe because they know you can't take Grandma out and bury her in the backyard. You HAVE to seek out their services, it is the law. As to why they aren't soliciting new customers, that is strange. You'd think if they were short of cash they would want more customers. Aren't some of these people being pushing out by the big players like ING, aka. Belair Direct? Another personal insult.

Originally posted by JUSTABALDGUY

Don't give me the crap about Age Discrimination Blah blah blah. this is really is just you whining and trying to throw up a smokescreen avoiding the point. YOUNGER DRIVERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MODIFIED CARS CONTRIBUTE CAUSE A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER PROPERTION OF CLAIMS AND AS SUCH PAY MORE INSURANCE PERIOD!!!!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND????? Stop whining. You cause more accidents, you pay more. Period, end of story, no encore. Why do you insist on disputing the indisputable?

Again, more personal insults for you debate team types out there.

I have disputed it because of my personal experience and your attitude of 'SHUT UP AND ACCEPT IT!' That is exactly the same attitude of the entire industry. Instead of actually reading my arguments, you blame everything on me.

Also see your second point above. I believe there you stated I am insured based on my driving ability and car, yet here it seems more likely that you are charging based on your chances of making a claim. Driving for a longer time does not increase your driving skill. While it may improve your judgement, the basic skills of driving only seem to degrade. I see a lot more middle aged people cut me off, change lanes without signalling, tailgate and so on. I think some of them forget these things are illegal. Younger people are easier to distract, perhaps, especially with their friends in the car. More of them speed, and swerve through traffic. If you can tell me that a soccer mom, talking on the cell phone and screaming at her kids to shut up is a more attentive driver, you're dreaming. She'll change lanes without signalling right into that kid who was speeding, and the police will blame the kid.

Also make note that in my research I found it was more expensive to insure a Ford Focus hatchback than a Ford SVT Lightning. Which one do you think is more dangerous to drive, especially with our recent weather?

[Dave]

I get the feeling JUSTABALDGUY works for an insurance company or has an anger management problem...

Obviously you don't know the close-knit community of people who use this forum, but I suggest you change your tone and your needlessly condescending attitude if you plan to retain your posting priveleges here. Nobody on this message board wants to read sadly misplaced rants about the insurance industry from a complete stranger.

Cheers,
Dave

[JUSTABALDGUY]

Whatever,
You obviously have all of the answers. I hope you enjoy your frustrating ride through life as the most misunderstood driver to ever pay an insurance bill. The only thing more annoying than someone who perpetually whines is someone who doesn't posess the intestinal fortitude to accept responsibility for their actions. It's allllllllllllllllllways someone elses fault, I didn't do it, the man is out to get me, all big companies are rip off artists, you are labelling me, blah blah blah. Step up to the plate Skippy. Have the cajones to live with the consequences of your actions and take it like a man. Stop the whining and complaining. Your failure to accept responsibilities for your ability or lack therof is nauseating.

JUSTABALDGUY
(the nasty man who makes the little boys cry)

[TYSON]

I don't have all the answers, however you have not provided EVEN ONE.
Perhaps you should read all the posts again. If you are older than me, you would be hard pressed to convince even ONE person. Every one here has replied with an even tone asking for answers that have not been provided. You stated that if we had a REAL issue, you would address it. You have not. Your replies have continued to degrade into more name calling each time. What is the point of continuing to discuss this with you? This thread should be locked and / or deleted.

[finboy]

unfortunately I started this tread, and can't delete it.

sorry guys...

if the moderator wishes to, you have my vote

[Taylor]

BALDGUY: You should consider for one moment that you are new here. This is not a general motorsports discussion group. In fact I wouldn't even call it a public one. This is a group of local competitors, this is a forum for local events. Not to say you're not welcome to post (though in light of your more recent comments, not sure what good you're doing). But my point is people only come here because they're part of the series(s) or want to know more about the series so they can get involved. It's curious that your first posts are in regards to insurance and surprise surprise you're an insurance agent. While I don't disagree that it's paranoid, there are a number of desicions I make in my life that don't hamper my enjoyment of it and protect me from what COULD happen. I usually don't try to take risks if there's no benefit involved. To me that's the difference between book smarts and real intelligence.

I think your preconcieved idea of who we are based on the fact that most people here have posted negatively towards insurance, is a little shallow... what is it with people in insurance, they just don't get it (as I'm sure you think we don't get it too). You've under estimated your audience. There is no respect.

I didn't need to know who you were so I could come by your place and do burnouts you twit, I wanted to know who you were to see what your intentions on this board were. If you were actually here based on interest for the sport, or to be a surragate spokesperson for the Insurance industry, in which case I think I'd rather just avoid you.

Bottom line. I pay entirely too much for auto insurance, and I have ZERO claims. So there's no RESPONSBILITY to accept on my part. I'm treated by insurance companies like most other companies and or government authorities, as part of a group instead of an individual. I'm 10 times the capable driver than most any other person with a license yet my girlfriend with 1/100th of my driving experience pays less than HALF the premium I do.

I drive a vehicle many times safer and capable than most other vehicles on the road. Where are my deductions for this? If I drove a rusted out piece of shit truck that cost me only $2,000, I'd pay less insurance, even though the vehicle is far less safe and capable. So the insurance company might save $40,000 on a vehicle replacement claim, but as you pointed out, it's the millions in liability that are the issue. The safety features and capabilities of the two vechiles however are great enough to be the difference between life and death.

I understand how the insurance industry works. I have that knowledge in the family. Cry me a river for the multibillion dollar corporations that finally went broke because they didn't gouge some person or business like they should have because of their corporately funded studies said they wern't part of the group of people that cost them the most money. Oops.... some statistician is out of a job.

No one wants to be lumped in with a group of people. Even if that's reality, no one wants it.

And I think the point most of us here are trying to make is, whether I compete in motorsports or not, that should have no ADVERSE bearing on the premium I pay. If anything I'm a better driver for competing in a Solo (one car only) competitive environment. If the insurance company isn't willing to insure me on the course, then they bascially should have no say. It SHOULD be a non-issue.

Hell even show me the insurance industry sponsored study done on SCCA-type AutoX or Solo competitiors and accident rates and show me how we fit into a high-risk group? We don't. There's no study to show it. It's paranoid bullshit from the insurance agent and or company. They're scared and ignorant and they'd rather insure Grandma Smith who drives about 115kms a year, 100 of them to drive into town to pay here annual insurance premiums. Yeah well I'd like to pay $1 a year for insurance too.. lets get real here.

Anyhow I could go all night about insurance, where I've been burned and why I don't deserve it. And it has nothing to do with accepting responsibility. Hell when I turned 25 I didn't get the big deduction I kept hearing about... in fact, my insurance went up about another $20 a month. Still.. no claims. Now I have to pay for the Titanic of office buildings and someones underestimation of their value and vurnerability.

I know it might sound a little stupid, but I wait for the day something goes wrong and I can actually thank god for the thousands I put into insurance and the thousands it will have saved me. But until that day, it feels like a waste, insurance is SUPPOSED to give you peace of mind. With the horror stories, both true and false, and the crap excuses even I have been given (for rate quotes and adjustments), I'm not even sure I would get a check to fix being the victim of a side impact.

I think back to how easy it was to get a certain type of insurance with my current carrier, and how much it changed my mind about that company, but then I took a little time and found the hundreds upon hundreds of stories about how this company never pays out. And it all begins to make sense.. don't give the customer any hassle in them purchasing insurance because when the time comes, they will have improper coverage and we won't pay out anyhow. I called well over a dozen different companies and no one would cover me for this level of insurance. But these guys did.. it was like "sure no problem". Too good to be true? Hope I never have to find out.

[Dave]

Ok guys, let this thread die and Shaman will come clean it up for us tomorrow.

[StewPiddass]

Don't give me the crap about Age Discrimination Blah blah blah. this is really is just you whining and trying to throw up a smokescreen avoiding the point. YOUNGER DRIVERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN MODIFIED CARS CONTRIBUTE CAUSE A SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER PROPERTION OF CLAIMS AND AS SUCH PAY MORE INSURANCE PERIOD!!!!!! WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND????? Stop whining. You cause more accidents, you pay more. Period, end of story, no encore. Why do you insist on disputing the indisputable?

Just so you know, this is still age discrimination, you didn't even back up your argument. Charging all younger drivers a higher premium because many younger drivers have more claims is discrimination plain and simple, I say charge the drivers that make the claims and leave me the hell alone! Say nothing about the sexual discrimination, most girls I know with a driving record like mine pay fractions of what I pay. Hell, I'm not even all that unhappy about my Insurance, I only pay $120/month for my 2001 Protegé GT and my 1993 Civic... My poor brother pays 3 times that on a POS 1992 Toyota Tercel, and his record is spotless (better than I can say for mine) all because he's 22.

[MikeS]

Bald Guy, please try clusi.com or gtastreetracing.com, it's obvious that you need to vent, here's not the place to do it. At clubsi and gta they will be willing to argue with you.

[Shaman]

Justabaldguy has been restricted in his use of this forum system. I have asked him for a written apology I can post on his behalf, and advised him that in the future a civil and reasonable tone is required to continue his use of this service.

FYI.

And wowsers! You should see the quote for comprehensive insurance on my 2003 GSX-R 1000! Good lord. And I'm 34!

[pokey1]

"Bottom line. I pay entirely too much for auto insurance, and I have ZERO claims. So there's no RESPONSBILITY to accept on my part. I'm treated by insurance companies like most other companies and or government authorities, as part of a group instead of an individual. I'm 10 times the capable driver than most any other person with a license yet my girlfriend with 1/100th of my driving experience pays less than HALF the premium I do. "

Just my 2 cents:

I've been driving for over 10 years now and have never filed a claim (knock on fake wood, I'm at work :) ) and since I've started to drive, I have probably paid well over 10 thousand :( in premiums... money I'll probably never see again.

Would it kill these companies to start everyone off at something like $1000/year - you file a claim, it doubles - you don't it drops.

That would treat everyone equally and reward the drivers who make claims instead of starting you off at $1500 and rewarding you years later by not INCREASING your premium - even though it actually should drop as the value of the car is dropping...

Looks like no one likes insurance companies and may we never have to find out if the "good deal" we think we have will pay us if the need arises.

How much money does it take to start your own insurance company? Anyone have a rich uncle that's into motorsports?

[TYSON]

They do have to charge a lot. After all, a $1 million dollar lawsuit takes a long time to pay off if we all paid $1000 a year. That lawsuit cost has to be spread out among all their clients.

The cost of damage to your car is pretty low compared to the classic lawsuit of whiplash, soft tissue damage and emotional pain and suffering.:rolleyes:

I would also like to apologize to you guys for antagonizing him, but that attitude rubs me the wrong way. It was amazingly easy to make him look like an ass:p

[ctheo]

And wowsers! You should see the quote for comprehensive insurance on my 2003 GSX-R 1000! Good lord. And I'm 34!

Uh, aren't you riding a SV 600? Jumping right up to a GSX-R 1000 eh? NICE! Did you get experience on the 600 to feel comfortable on the 1000?

My neighbour gave up on insuring his bike for the street. He stripped it down, bought some cheap glass body work and only uses the bike at the track.

He was paying $6000/ season for a 2000 CBR F4i.

[Shaman]

Originally posted by ctheo
Uh, aren't you riding a SV 600? Jumping right up to a GSX-R 1000 eh? NICE! Did you get experience on the 600 to feel comfortable on the 1000?

11 years of motocross racing ending in the 500cc open class. Hosing the hell out of the SV650S and realizing that as much fun as I was having, the bike wasn't doing it for me. Planning track days.

I will own another SV650S with sharkskinz on it shortly as well for track days, the 1000 is mostly going to be streeted... lots of torque, power and handling in one package was too much to pass up. And at 34, if I'm not ready to have a big bike now, I never will be.

[ctheo]

Hey! Don't put words in my mouth! ;)

Cool. I've considered selling my Mustang and buying a bike. I'd probably buy a used CBR 600 and spend the rest of the cash on gear.

The odds of me actually selling the Mustang to buy a bike are low. I plan on building up my car to the point that I can chase Judd around the track (my car is a 66 Coupe).

I'll get to it one of these days.

[Dave]

Steve, is that the Hayabusa engine? Man, those things are incredible! You're a braver man than me to drive that beast...I saw a bit on TV about the international auto show and the journalist pointed to a GSX-R 1000 and said it was the fastest street machine on the planet, but I'm guessing she's never seen my Civic :P

[Shaman]

Originally posted by Dave
Steve, is that the Hayabusa engine? Man, those things are incredible! You're a braver man than me to drive that beast...I saw a bit on TV about the international auto show and the journalist pointed to a GSX-R 1000 and said it was the fastest street machine on the planet, but I'm guessing she's never seen my Civic :P

Heh.

No, the 1000 has a much lighter engine, it displaces 998cc and makes (in the new bike) 150whp roughly, and 155whp or so over 100mph with the ram air. A Hayabusa makes 160whp and 165whp. The 1299cc 'busa makes 100lb-ft of torque while the 1000's mill makes more like 78-80lb-ft.

But, here's where the 1000 makes up for it. It's about 140 pounds lighter when fueled, and it's geared slightly lower for more revs, 20mph less speed. Get out your donkulator and see what you think that means... :)

I bought it to have fun with and ride with respect, with the occassional good quick blitz and some drag days. Nothing like launching a stock vehicle and hitting the other end of a quarter mile in the low 10s or high 9s. Stock right down to the tire, that is. It's the closest thing I could find to the power:weight ratio of my last motocross bike which made about 90hp on a kart dyno (and eventually shook everything to death), weighed 250 pounds fueled, and was geared for a top speed of 85mph. Big, grinning, outragous, silly fun.

[wpfri]

Insurance coverage. For more details www.solocanada.ca

[Spinner]

I have to say that insurance companies have way too much ability to bend and twist the rules. We need a governing body to keep these companies in order. Government and insurance companies are able to bend and twist the rules whenever they want. Although there is probebly nothing anyone can do about government, no business should be allowed to have that kind of power to change the rules.

Now someone will probably come on here and say they don't change the rules, if people did not misrepresent themselves there would be no discussion, That's horse&*it!

Explain this one to me, I have never had any claims or tickets. I'm 23 and I drive a prelude. What I do have on my record are a couple of cancellations due to non-payment. ( I realize these look just as bad as tickets) I walked into an insurance company looking to get a 6 month premium. They told me they would not sell me the policy because of my previous non-payments. When I would the cash on his desk, I still had to argue with him and finally he got his supervisor and they sold me the policy.

The point is there is no other form of business out there that can do whatever it wants. I sell cars, soon I'll have to give blood samples theres so many governing bodies out to get us. And if there is a governing body for insurance companies there sure as hell ain't doing anything to help people!!!

[Spinner]

Hey bald guy, Try charging an asian or african american or (race of your Choice) More money and see how far that gets you!!!!!
Age is age and it IS discrimination. Discrimination should not be happening in any form Race or Age, Age or Race!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CobraStang]

Holy old-threads Batman!

[Gerry]

I missed all the excitement on this thread last week, but today's CBC website has an interesting series of items about people paying for claims out of their own pockets to avoid insurance rate increases.
It seems that if it's over $1,000 damage (not much by today's standards) it has to be reported to a Collision Centre, which means your insurance company gets informed automatically.
There is also a list of sample cases of individuals with claims and the end cost of the increased rates.
I think the bottom line here is "An accident occurs when an asteroid comes out of the sky and hits your car; anything else is driver error". If we had better driver training and mercilessly removed bad drivers from the gene pool (by taking away their licence) then a lot of collisions would be avoided. The real shame of all this is that the insurance companies appear to have little interest in underwriting better driver training and, at least in North America, a drivers licence is regarded as a cash cow for governments and insurers, and a birthright by drivers.
My suggestion: If you know any young people who are starting to drive, send them to a good driving school as a birthday or Christmas present. Then send them to Skid School. Then get them into Solo 2. They will be better drivers.
Cheers, Gerry

[craig hamm]

My suggestion: If you know any young people who are starting to drive, send them to a good driving school as a birthday or Christmas present. Then send them to Skid School. Then get them into Solo 2. They will be better drivers.
Cheers, Gerry [/B]

Ummm, no. Bad idea, apparently.
http://www.mco.org/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3751

[Marsh]

The problem with taking away licenses is that they'll take away the wrong ones. The people that drive 120 on the 401, but always use their signals, don't tail gate, don't cut anyone off, move the the right when the lane is open etc, they are the evil ones that the OPP are hunting down. The idiot that doesn't know what the stock to the left of his wheel does, makes left turns from the right lane, drives 90 down the middle of the 401 while talking on his cell phone. He's a safe driver. Why? He's driving 90, and bad drivers have been conditioned to think this is the ONLY thing that matters, and the vast majority of police officers agree.

[finboy]

has anyone found a company to insure your daily cough cough stock car??

[Logan]

I've found Pilot Insurance to be quite forgiving. My broker has also told me that they tend to not care about modifications etc etc.
I wrote a car off a number of years ago... I submitted extra paperwork after the fact showing the value of the aftermarket parts that were installed in the car, and they increased my payout (with some negotiating on my part).

[boghog]

Rather than relying on what you hear on internet forums or from "a friend who knows a guy in insurance", it would be useful for anyone who does any sort of competition in their car to actually read the Ontario Automobile Policy (OAP). The provincial government mandates that all Ontario auto insurance must be this policy.

The policy is here: http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/oap2005.pdf
(Note that this is the most current version, effective June 1, 2005. If your policy was last renewed before that, you can find yours here: http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/OAP.asp)

More information and brochures are available here: http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/

[spoonie]

I've found Pilot Insurance to be quite forgiving. My broker has also told me that they tend to not care about modifications etc etc.
I wrote a car off a number of years ago... I submitted extra paperwork after the fact showing the value of the aftermarket parts that were installed in the car, and they increased my payout (with some negotiating on my part).


I'm also with pilot. they know about all my mods, and have no problem with it. however, i'm waiting to have my first ever ticket or accident. we'll see how "cool" they are then.

32, toronto, no tickets, use them for home insurance as well.

[finboy]

I've found Pilot Insurance to be quite forgiving. My broker has also told me that they tend to not care about modifications etc etc.
I wrote a car off a number of years ago... I submitted extra paperwork after the fact showing the value of the aftermarket parts that were installed in the car, and they increased my payout (with some negotiating on my part).

like you said.. that was "a number of years ago....."

wonder if they feel the same way now?

[finboy]

reason I asked..

the only thing I have found is this company, but the car has to be 15years +
and a "weekend" type of car


http://www.lant-ins.ca/custom.html

still nothing for a modified daily driver...

[Marsh]

There are two people on this board that are with pilot and have been dropped. Your broker is blowing smoke up you a$$.

[StewPiddass]

Yup, they dropped me... after 15 years of taking my $$$