Classification???

[StewPiddass]

Up until this point I have only competed in mostly TLMC events and haven't needed to worry about classifying my car. I plan to attend some PITL and maybe other events this season so I guess I need to know.

I have a 1993 Civic LX Sedan (1.5 litre, sohc, non-vtec)

- DC Sports Header
- Aftermarket intake / K&N Cone
- H&R Springs
- Tokiko Blues
- Neuspeed Upper Strut Bar

Guess I'm pretty screwed huh? Far as I can tell this puts me in BSS, is that right? It's all chinese to me.

Is there anything I can do (easily) to go down a class or should I not worry about it? I realize the Header and Intake are killing me but they were purchased long before I got in to Solo.

Now, what happens when I put in the Ingalls Camber Kit I bought last summer (to reduce tire wear, new 17's every summer are getting expensive) this doesn't change anything does it?

What other mods do you guys suggest I should / can do that won't bump me up even further, I was thinking swaybars (s).

Also, what's the deal with tires at the PITL events anyway? What can and can't be run? I know I saw lotsa slicks at the pro-solo.

Thanx in advance for your help, sorry I'm so longwinded...

[Marsh]

PITL has there own class system and you will be put in the class that the organizer feels like putting you in. I've gone to a PITL event with 2 friends in nearly identicly prepared cars and one was a class above me and the other a class below. Best thing is to go to there open house and find out there, but I can almost gaurantee that you will be in B-Mod (assuming they still use the same classes as when I last ran their series) They basically have a stock and mod class for FWD cars, and you are no longer stock.

For regional rules (Of which there are few clubs with regular series that actually use them) you are in BSS now. The only thing you could still do is a cat-back exhaust. The camber kit and any other suspension tidbits are already included in the 3 points for springs. EXCEPT sway bars. Sway bars or any other engine toys will bump you to BSP.

To go down a class you would need to remove everything on that list except the shocks.

You have basically built your car to the limit of BSS rules, so I wouldn't say your screwed, I would run the car as is. For tires, you can have anything you want so long as it is DOT street legal. Not street legal in Japan or Europe. It must have a DOT number stamped on the tire. Some people here will have a lot of different opinions on tires, but I am huge fan of the Kumho V700 Victoracer as a racing tire. For a high performance street tire, I'll let the guys that run them answer.

[StewPiddass]

Actually, I forgot, I already have the catback exhaust (as you could tell if you watch the video in my sig). Thanx for your help Marsh. I was just curious about the tires, I have like 7 sets of tires and wheels for my car, I love my slicks but I had a feeling they'd be a no-no, they make me so much faster though.


I noticed that they class wherever they please, at the pro-solo I was put into class B with most of the Subarus, the Miatas and a few RX-7. All the other Civics were in A! Needless to say I got killed.

[tanney]

If you have any mods to your car, short of shocks and cat back exhaust, for ANY PITTL event, you get put into the MOD class. This would be B-Mod for their series and B for the Pro Solo.

The Civics in A class were completely stock.

Car with mods = Car in Mod class

[MastaDeeMon]

My 85 Civic 1.3L was considered modded when I pulled the passeger seat out cuz my son peed on it the morning of the event. My car has 55hp. I still finished 2nd. PITL classsification is useless, but the events are fun and the venue is nice. And if your driving a Mazda, sometimes they don't register the cones you hit!

D.

[roooo]

My 85 Civic 1.3L was considered modded when I pulled the passeger seat out cuz my son peed on it the morning of the event.


*lol* I suppose excuses don't count for anything ... just the cold hard facts. :D Harsh.

[MastaDeeMon]

Originally posted by roooo
*lol* I suppose excuses don't count for anything ... just the cold hard facts. :D Harsh.

Huh? Not sure where you're going with that.

D.

[andrew1984]

do they even have an ETA for this years classifications rules?

it would be nice to know as soon as possible, so that we may do some mods before the season begins.

[ice/solo racer]

Hey Stewpiddass,Tom Smith here with the copper corolla,the slicks that you guys are somehow allowed to run in TLMC events(I'm sure your insurance would be void if someone rolls!)aren't allowed unless you run B-mod with a roll bar(a real bar not some street monkey bar/light bar from a truck)That means you'd be running with Patrick Yorke and his very fast little civic(you remember the black one this summer?)
BTW I'm now a TLMC member and will be running your series along with the regionals.I talked to George at the ice races and he says they are going to even have something the resembles a class system for a change.Not very original classes mind you(they mirror ice race classing)but at least its a start,looks like I'll be going against Galos.Hope he's ready,the corolla will be:cool:
If your working the ice races tomorow than I'll see you there,black celica alltrac turbo #34.(not hard to find,its the one hauling ass down the front strait!)

[andrew1984]

hey tom, i thought you sold your corolla?

[ice/solo racer]

Nah,I had a ton of interests(I was replying to atleast 3-5 e-mails a night for about 3 weeks!)but no cash traded hands.I'm glad I didn't sell as the amount of prep work and custom fabrication in this car is substancial and I'd hate to start again.(took me almost a year of hard work)
In fact I've decided to sell my alltrac ice racer instead,I was going to use the alltrac for TLMC solo's along with ice race but decided the the corolla is more fun,much lighter and much cheaper to maintain.
Since my days of motorcycle road racing schools I've been trying to find a way of getting out on the big tracks(in a car,I don't bounce so good anymore) and the corolla might be the best chance for me to get out there for some wheel to wheel racing.
I'll continue to develope the corolla for 2003 and with any luck I'll go road race in 2004,either gt sprints to get my feet wet or maybe the car will fit into the new touring car classes.
Oh yeah Stewpiddass,I forgot to mention if it was me I'd remove the header and go for a rear sway bay and stay in BSS.Come run the regionals,you'll like the structured rules much better,means that the guy with the most money doesn't always get to win,and you'll have a better understanding of how you compare to other drivers in cars of supposedly equal performance.

[andrew1984]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
Nah,I had a ton of interests(I was replying to atleast 3-5 e-mails a night for about 3 weeks!)but no cash traded hands.I'm glad I didn't sell as the amount of prep work and custom fabrication in this car is substancial and I'd hate to start again.(took me almost a year of hard work)
In fact I've decided to sell my alltrac ice racer instead,I was going to use the alltrac for TLMC solo's along with ice race but decided the the corolla is more fun,much lighter and much cheaper to maintain.
Since my days of motorcycle road racing schools I've been trying to find a way of getting out on the big tracks(in a car,I don't bounce so good anymore) and the corolla might be the best chance for me to get out there for some wheel to wheel racing.
I'll continue to develope the corolla for 2003 and with any luck I'll go road race in 2004,either gt sprints to get my feet wet or maybe the car will fit into the new touring car classes.
Oh yeah Stewpiddass,I forgot to mention if it was me I'd remove the header and go for a rear sway bay and stay in BSS.Come run the regionals,you'll like the structured rules much better,means that the guy with the most money doesn't always get to win,and you'll have a better understanding of how you compare to other drivers in cars of supposedly equal performance.


at tlmc, it usually isnt the guy who has the most cash who wins.

i think its much more skill related.

[StewPiddass]

You got that right Andrew, I sure love spanking S4's, TT's, WRX's and the like!!!

Tom, I'm not sure if the TLMC classes have been decided yet but we did discuss them at length at the end of year banquet. Something about front wheel drive and rear/all wheel drive classes...Dave was also saying something about displacement, eg: 2.0 litres and lower, and above 2.0 litres (or forced induction). This still puts me in the same class as guys like Pat Yorke and Peter Ban with their swaps. Seems like a logistical nightmare to me, I kinda like the no-classing, just overall scores. Woulda done great at the August event if all you regional guys hadn't shown up...( You, Wes, Marsh, Lisa, was Pat Yorke there too?) At least I was the fastest Member! Damn that wife of yours, got me by 3 hundredths on the last run.

As far as tires go I guess I'll just hafta run my 032R's then, save the slicks for TLMC. No more running on 17's for me, not after I blew 2 tires on the way home from one of your events on that razor sharp go-cart track!

I wanted to go to the Ice Races tomorrow but I just can't make it, I really wanted to go for a run in Joe's Neon!

We're calling the Corolla copper now are we...I thought it was Butterscotch! lol

BTW, Welcome to the Club, maybe I do want new classes, might be the only way I get some firsts this year, I know I can be fastest FWD under 2.0 (thank God Turbos would automatically be in the upper class cuz that Damn Beetle's getting too fast too!)

[StewPiddass]

Oh yeah, I had another question...about engine swaps, would this automatically put me in BSP? Even if I swap in an engine that was available in my civic, in my bodystyle and my year (like a sohc vtec D16?) This is the only reason I'm thinking D16, if not I could get anything (B16, B18, H22) cuz I'd be in BSP anyway.

[Marsh]

An engine swap will put you BSP, no matter how close it was to the original motor. In fact it could bump you to B-Mod. Engine swaps are only legal in Solo-2 if the block has the same number of cylinders, center-to-center bore spacing, and I'm not sure about number of cams? But, say putting a B16 into a car that came with a D16 is a one way ticket of Modified.

[StewPiddass]

And I thought I was the only one up at this hour...

So even if the engine in question was available in my car?... I know I can find D16's cheap

[Chris P]

An engine swap is an engine swap.

Under PITTL rules you will be moved to C Mod, regionals it should be BMod.


HOWEVER,
Lets say the engine your putting into the car is very close to the original engine and the only real differences are......lets say a different head, different intake manifold etc. Claim points for each one of these modifcaitons and you may end up in a class below BMOD. ;)

So, no B series into your civic, however a ZC or Mini Me swap is not out of the question.


Hmmm, 2:27am for you. 3:16am for me. Lets see if this post makes sense in the morning. :eek:



PS: Slicks are a no-no, in SOLO 2 they will never heat up and you'll find they have become a very expensive less then great R-Compound.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Chris P

PS: Slicks are a no-no, in SOLO 2 they will never heat up and you'll find they have become a very expensive less then great R-Compound.

You've obviously never driven on a Housier R25 slick. They make R-compounds look like Michelin taxi-cab specials.

[StewPiddass]

My slicks are way (and I mean waaaaaaaaaaaay) better than my 032R's, plus I got 2 sets and got 'em cheap, probably only good for about 8-10 events each.

[Chris P]

No i have not ever driven on R25A's. However, i do understand the benifits of slicks and do not believe you will see those said benifits within a 40 or even 50 secound SOLO 2 run(compared to a good R-Compound). Slicks are alot faster then their R-Compound counter parts in a road racing enviroment.

After running slicks on our FF1600 for a season we picked up a few things. They take longer to heat up, sometimes 3 or 4 laps before they get close to the optimal temperature.
I'm guessing your FSAE car uses them and thats why you bring up the R25A compound. R25A use on road cars is very limited. Since the only sedans to use the tire are GT4 and GT5 which are very light and i'm guessing only use the tire on a very cold day. I guess the R25 could be the exception to the rule of time to heat up however are there really any cars that could run a tire like that? Maybe i super 7? I would think a A3S03 or Hoosier AutoCrosser is a better tire for this application. Well, I'm sure your FSAE team has looked at those alternatives and has done testing? Please enlighten me


StewPiddass,
032R's are pretty board line R-Compounds. Run a Kumho or Hoosier and you'll see a huge difference. ;)

Purhaps one of those Road racing boys would like to chim in here?

[ice/solo racer]

Hi Stewpiddass,ya Patrick was there the day us regional guys showed up and spanked the rest of your(mine now)club,he was the winner with wes second,me third(damn that guy!)then Marsh and then lisa.
I was talking to Galos at the track today and he was about as sure as you are about the rules proposed.I prefer the structured rules of casc and the prep point system that allows you to pick and chose what mods would work best for your car/budget.I honestly don't know why all the clubs don't adopt these rules so guys can run different series without the chance of being uncompetitive in one series or the other.
The only thing that means anything when running a tlmc event is running for FTD,with regards to the go-kart track events that I hosted,I had Mavis tell me that she had no idea how i got insurance for what she felt was a solo 1 event,and yet she allows you guys to run non dot slicks with no safety considerations(all casc clubs get insurance from casc,I would think that the casc solo2 rules should be followed so a crash at your event doesn't screw up everybodys).
I don't think much of engine swaps with no penalty,a civic with twin cam power is a perfect eg.-light weight/more power(although the extra weight up front doesn't help much)
I hope the classing thing works out,I'll still run tlmc for testing and sorting the new stuff in the corolla if the events continue to be the great layouts of the past.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer

The only thing that means anything when running a tlmc event is running for FTD,with regards to the go-kart track events that I hosted,I had Mavis tell me that she had no idea how i got insurance for what she felt was a solo 1 event,and yet she allows you guys to run non dot slicks with no safety considerations(all casc clubs get insurance from casc,I would think that the casc solo2 rules should be followed so a crash at your event doesn't screw up everybodys).


This infuriates me too. There are a lot of clubs that think it is optional to run casc-or rule book. While the classes are optional, the safety regulations are not. If the insurance company ever found out about a car running on slicks without an approved roll bar the whole region could be screwed. Never mind all the clubs that have accidents and never report them (required by the rules). It's a miracle that we even have insurance through CASC with the way some clubs behave.

[ice/solo racer]

Amen Brother,with rules and paxing all laid out it should be easier for clubs not harder.The only thing is policing the cars for classing purposes,but when was the last time any official walked over to a car without being asked to look at the regionals?.I know I was never teched,and it really isn't a problem(except in Ottawa,I think 4-5 cars had to get bumped to BSP once running,sorry guys hehe).
The other thing is casc should follow the scca's lead and adopt some street touring/mod type classes to get some of the fast and furious crowd involved,most of them end up in sp or mod and get pissy about losing even though they know that no one short of andretti could possibly outdrive them and their cookie cutter,coffee can exhausted civic.
Just some rambling at 4:30 am,can't sleep with all these things going around in this little brain of mine.

[finboy]

Originally posted by tanney
If you have any mods to your car, short of shocks and cat back exhaust, for ANY PITTL event, you get put into the MOD class. This would be B-Mod for their series and B for the Pro Solo.

The Civics in A class were completely stock.

Car with mods = Car in Mod class

your car would be in B-MOD (B=front wheel/not stock)

the rules have NOT changed in years:

http://www.wiredmotorsports.com/pitl/pitl-class.html

[finboy]

Originally posted by MastaDeeMon
My 85 Civic 1.3L was considered modded when I pulled the passeger seat out cuz my son peed on it the morning of the event. My car has 55hp. I still finished 2nd. PITL classsification is useless, but the events are fun and the venue is nice. And if your driving a Mazda, sometimes they don't register the cones you hit!

D.

Yes the classification is USELESS, compared to the regional classing

we keep the classing as "basic" as possible

who are you blaming for you to pull out the passengers seat?

if we allowed you to run in the stock class, we'd have every other competitor in your class making a fuss.

Maybe we should have let you run in the stock class, and everyone else who's dog, cat fish peed on whatever component and accept that as well.

lets try that.... sounds perfect

fyi the corvette club has two classes for NON vettes

"stock" and "modded"

we don't go over everyones car to check for illegal mods, if so, we'd have to tech 60-80+ cars every event.

dave t

ps, we'll record any cone hit.. the marshalls are usually out there
picking the daisy's watching the cars rather than checking for cones.

[Marsh]

you spelt marshal wrong...

[Brent]

The PITL rules aren't so bad. I have whined about them as much as anyone but I guess they grow on you or something. It seems straight forward, if your car is stock you run in stock, do suspension or bolt on mods you run in Bmod, do internal engine work or forced induction and you run in Cmod. Bmod is sort of like a superstock class.

Even with their rules the PITL series is the best club series around. The MSOC is the only club not to limit entries. They accept everybody who comes and handle the large numbers with out any problems. On top of that they supply your lunch.

PITL events rock.

[Marsh]

I would like to add that although I don't like PITL classes, I understand why they do it. It's a one mark club. They are no different than CCC or the BMW boys. Their class structure is built around the club vehicles with a few classes for visitors. If the Prelude club organized events it would be the same way. I just wish that A-there were more classes, and B-The club could agree on who was in charge of deciding what class a car was in, rather than have 3 people telling me "I'm the organizer, so I'm in charge".

[soloZ]

^^^ yes PITL events rock. Oh and Dave I am removing my rear sway bar this year(this means my car is stock hehehe) I had a great time at this years two Pro solos (we had two didn't we?) I can't wait for the season to start. I think the Class rules work pretty good for the Regional and the PITL events, for instance I was in B-mod because I added weight to the back end of my car(aftermarket sway bar) this sway bar also added a point to my Regional class but I choose to make a step up into B1(my stock class was B2).

[roooo]

Recap: Wes is going to BSS, Ryan is going go B2

Should be a fun and competitive year in B1 !! :D

[StewPiddass]

"I don't think much of engine swaps with no penalty,a civic with twin cam power is a perfect eg.-light weight/more power(although the extra weight up front doesn't help much)"

Just so you know Tom, I wasn't talking about a twincam, just the sohc vtec (Si) motor that was available in my car.

[finboy]

my brotha's.....

i have no clue what's so special about "marque" club vs other cars classing?


quote by Marsh "Their class structure is built around the club vehicles with a few classes for visitors..."

that makes no sense at all.

got a lude?
cat back
filter
wheel/tire combo
shocks

= its basically our stock class

throw on some springs
sways
light'n/add weight
header
etc..
bumped to the Mod class

do an engine swap
throw engine work at it
bolt on blower/turbo

bump'd again to the CMod class

it is pretty simple classing...

every class in the regional has its pig cars, and its wicked cars...
nothing is absolutely fair

work with it... have fun... compete...

if you don't like it, the course design, the marshalling, the lunch
the amount of runs, the location

its simple... don't show

we get a shit load of people every year, and try to get as many cars out as possible.

not to many other events can you get 80 cars plus on a regular basis with 5 or 6 runs

this is designed to be a fun local series...


what more do you want? if you have a problem with classing our lovely and talented Tong man would be happy to hear from you.

only a few more months..



dave t

ps.. PRO- SOLO style events are THE BEST!!!! but to get the lots
we're stuck with long weekend holidays, and the numbers aren't as high as we hoped...

still planning to host them though... we'll seee

[finboy]

air fresh'ners
fuzzy dice
hello kitty
neon lights
stickers
seatbelt pads
crowns
bobble heads






are all free

[tanney]

Cool, I don't have to remove my go-fast yellow Type R Stickers (that make me go WAY FAST), and my fuzzy dice to stay in Stock classes.

I can hardly wait for the season to start......got cool yellow stickers, got cool yellow stickers, got cool yellow stickers, got cool yellow stickers!!!!

Yes PITTL events DO rock. Everybody is layed back (well, almost everybody), well behaved and there to have some fun, and the Nature Burgers are Awesome!

[Ron]

rules rules rules, bah!

Real Men are in Regional A-Mod or PITL Open class. Either that or dumb men are there. Always on the lookout for a few good men to join us/me.

Yes PITL does rock, but don't say it too loud or we may only get 4-5 runs in instead of 6.

Ron

[rpr]

Originally posted by finboy
Yes the classification is USELESS, compared to the regional classing

we keep the classing as "basic" as possible

who are you blaming for you to pull out the passengers seat?

if we allowed you to run in the stock class, we'd have every other competitor in your class making a fuss.

dave t

ps, we'll record any cone hit.. the marshalls are usually out there
picking the daisy's watching the cars rather than checking for cones.

I can understand where you are coming from, and yes, the more rules/classes the harder it is to manage, and the 'no exceptions' policy is the only way to avoid things like you mentioned.

However, on the 'cones hit' point, I know that at every event I attended (6 of 7), there were at least 2-3 incidents where I tried to report either a hit cone, or worse an off course, with no acknowledgement from the timing booth. It would appear that the booth is also picking daisie's occasionally. I realize we are all human, but the frequency of these things when they apply to Mazda's are slightly off-putting. It's probably all co-incidental, but it sometimes leaves a bad taste in your mouth. And sure, it's all in fun, but most of us are quite competitive, and these things do matter.

What can we do about it? Not much, unless the club also does the marshaling themselves. And don't suggest that I don't do my share of marshaling, I do. One day my car was acting up and I only got one run in, but I still did 5 marshaling stints. Anyway, I guess we just need to realize that there is nothing we can do about it, and live with it.

[andrew1984]

does anyone know if a seatbelt harness comes with any mod points? or is it free?

[rpr]

At PITL it is free, not sure about regional. Oh Wes....

[TYSON]

Originally posted by Ron
rules rules rules, bah!

Real Men are in Regional A-Mod or PITL Open class. Either that or dumb men are there. Always on the lookout for a few good men to join us/me.

Yes PITL does rock, but don't say it too loud or we may only get 4-5 runs in instead of 6.

Ron

Count me in:) Better go under the dumb heading first till we see how it goes:(

[tanney]

Free for the regionals.........but.......a word of caution!

Five point harnesses should NOT be used unless the vehicle is equiped with, at the very least, a roll over bar.

If you roll your car (unlikely, but heh, I've seen you drive ;-)) the five-point will hold you in place in the seat, even when the a-pillar gives way and the roof breaks your neck. Sorry for the graphic details.

I personally wear the lap belt part of a five point harness in my '87 Civic at the track. I have it so tight that I have to do the teenage girl pant thing, suck it in, hold it and wiggle while pulling on it. (No I am not talking about my sex life)

[finboy]

Originally posted by rpr


However, on the 'cones hit' point, I know that at every event I attended (6 of 7), there were at least 2-3 incidents where I tried to report either a hit cone, or worse an off course, with no acknowledgement from the timing booth. It would appear that the booth is also picking daisie's occasionally. I realize we are all human, but the frequency of these things when they apply to Mazda's are slightly off-putting. It's probably all co-incidental, but it sometimes leaves a bad taste in your mouth. And sure, it's all in fun, but most of us are quite competitive, and these things do matter.

What can we do about it? Not much, unless the club also does the marshaling themselves. And don't suggest that I don't do my share of marshaling, I do. One day my car was acting up and I only got one run in, but I still did 5 marshaling stints. Anyway, I guess we just need to realize that there is nothing we can do about it, and live with it.


If there is a problem with the tent acknowledgement.. from the timing booth, its most likely due to some dumb reason.

BUT if cones are being hit and the tent is picking daisy's.. and marshalls are waving their arms/cones/flags with no penalties recorded...

stop the stink'n event and make a point then... no point crying about things after the fact, its the marshals duty to make sure the timing tent records the penalties.. to keep things as fair as possible......

i'd be the first one to say sorry and thank you.

Personally I would rather just show up and participate. The organizers invovled do NOT do cone duty simply because they are there way before everyone, and are the last ones there cleaning up.

and why would you bother to marshal 5 times during the day if you only ran once?

all we ask is for people to do their share.. that's it.... but thanks i guess?!?!

and there are other NON members doing timing/scoring as well, if anything we LOOK for cones hit to score the penalties..

everyone is watching the fastest guys/girls out there, therefore its easy to score against them.

the slower cars do NOT get enough attention that they deserve....

food for thought.....


tks for the input guys

[ice/solo racer]

Unluckily for you stewpiddass that casc doesn't allow for updating/backdating.I agree that in the case of your car adding the sohc v-tech would in essence just create an ex 4 door,something anyone can buy right of the sales room floor.The sad part is your car and the ex is in the same class.
I don't have a problem with a sohc swap,the only problem arises when(if was allowed)someone starts dropping those into say a vx model and gets a lightweight hybrid.
Your one of the up and coming fast guys so lack of power can be overcome,but someday you'll want to exploit your ability with something that fits into the classing structure a little better.
Just my .02 cents,BTW my corolla is completly stock under the hood,so adding power is isn't the first thing to ensure is optimized.I'll be running BSP with the same power as last year so we'll see if my approach works or not!

[andrew1984]

Originally posted by tanney
Free for the regionals.........but.......a word of caution!

Five point harnesses should NOT be used unless the vehicle is equiped with, at the very least, a roll over bar.

If you roll your car (unlikely, but heh, I've seen you drive ;-)) the five-point will hold you in place in the seat, even when the a-pillar gives way and the roof breaks your neck. Sorry for the graphic details.

I personally wear the lap belt part of a five point harness in my '87 Civic at the track. I have it so tight that I have to do the teenage girl pant thing, suck it in, hold it and wiggle while pulling on it. (No I am not talking about my sex life)


excuse me???/ the way i drive? mr. i like to spin the car while i have andrew in the car because im crazy wes tanney.


:p i have heard these points about harness's though. the fact that you cant "submarine" if you roof caves. lets not forget what i drive now. :) its round for a reason, try dropping a school bus on it. yeh, so it will scratch - so what? :p

are 3pts better for that reason? i want something to hold me down while im carving asphalt - oh and your times :p

[JoeT]

Originally posted by Tanney
(No I am not talking about my sex life)

You have a sex life! :eek:

[StewPiddass]

Oh Crap!!! Who let him in???

[JoeT]

Been here for quite some time, but been really really quiet. Not like some "Stupidass" I know. LOL :D

[soloZ]

Ryan is going go B2

Sorry that hasn't been decided yet.

[tanney]

excuse me???/ the way i drive? mr. i like to spin the car while i have andrew in the car because im crazy wes tanney.

Just testing your stomach tolerance level! Hey the best way to learn car recovery control is to be out of control once and a while.

You have a sex life!

Yep, it apparently involves a seat belt!

If there is a problem with the tent acknowledgement.. from the timing booth, its most likely due to some dumb reason.

Working in any event timing booth is, to say the least, interesting. You have joe blow who just ran his run asking "What was my time?", someone complaining that "I did not hit a cone!", "what did so and so run?" All while trying to record the times, reset the system, send the next car, score the penalties answer the questions, try to eat lunch on the fly.......and bloody hell we all have to take a leak sometimes as well.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy working timing. It makes the day much more interesting, but there are times when you get your car on the grid and realize that you forgot to adjust your tire pressures, take a leak, tighten your shoe laces etc.

I personally have not really noticed any "favoritism" (sp) to Mazda's, sure I there are times when things are missed and sometimes it's not worth holding up the entire event to let someone who took out 10 cones on a run complain that he only took out 8 cones.

Oh how I long for those days when I showed up at the event, said hi to the familar and pleasent faces that you see every weekend, tinker with my car, get in line, run, go back to the paddock, adjust your tire pressures, go and do your marshaling stint, and then relax until you run again. No one asking questions, no one complaining, no one distracting you.........

But, hey, I love this sport and enjoy helping out when I can. So if you get attitude from one of the organizers at an event, take a look around and see just what is involved and thank these people who are there at 6:30 or 7:00 on their Saturday or Sunday morning, setting up so eveyone can go out and have an enjoyable day running the snot out of our daily drivers.

[Nissan Racer]

Pssst, Tom...slap a Mazdaspeed sticker on your car and all is good :)
And for good measure...a TRD...NISMO...SVT...STi...MOPAR...just don't bother with a Mugen...I hear they don't work :)

[rpr]

Wes and Dave:

I understand the complexities and hard work that go into running an event, and the reason I marshaled even though I had one run is because I want to help. I never spoke up at the events because it didn't seem like it would be useful since by the time everything got figured out, ten more cars could have run, and the days are long enough as it is. Plus I'm not a club member, so I don't want to horn in where I'm not wanted. If MSOC needs help with registration, I can do that. I usually come early, but I don't like to stay too late (it's hard enough to get a day a month to race, I'm not gong to push it) or I'd help cleanup as well.

Anyway, I will certainly be looking at things differently this year.

And thanks for all the hard work on everyones part.

[ice/solo racer]

But I loved my mugan exhaust I had on my civic sir!Hell I can't even get TRD stuff for my old corolla,let alone run a sticker from the rest of those company's.

[MastaDeeMon]

Originally posted by finboy
Yes the classification is USELESS, compared to the regional classing

we keep the classing as "basic" as possible

who are you blaming for you to pull out the passengers seat?

if we allowed you to run in the stock class, we'd have every other competitor in your class making a fuss.

Maybe we should have let you run in the stock class, and everyone else who's dog, cat fish peed on whatever component and accept that as well.

lets try that.... sounds perfect

fyi the corvette club has two classes for NON vettes

"stock" and "modded"

we don't go over everyones car to check for illegal mods, if so, we'd have to tech 60-80+ cars every event.

dave t

ps, we'll record any cone hit.. the marshalls are usually out there
picking the daisy's watching the cars rather than checking for cones.

Ok, point taken Dave. I'll be at your events this year, and I'll help out wherever I can. But I still think that a 55hp "stock" Civic with a 240lb driver should not be in "Mod" class, regardless of where my pass. seat is. No need to badmouth, you guys do a fine job and I metioned in my first post that the events are fun and the venue is nice. I'll go shut-up now.

D.

[finboy]

my brothas...

no personal "chews" were intended..

before when i just used to participate and show up say hi, do my own things... that was the best.

but as you come out more frequently, you actually start making friends in this sport.

i saw that help was needed and instead of giving suggestions, complaining, giving everyone my 2 cents worth.. i got involved and started helping with the organizing.

if it weren't for the quality of people involved who help out on a regular basis, this sport would be shit.

ask anyone.. for the number of different cars, different ages, different races, different backgrounds..etc

this is one of the few sports where all that shit don't matter.

most guys who have egos, get a wake up call on their first run...

most of these slalom events are about a bunch of "car guys/gals" having fun on a weekend, in a dusty parking lot, gett'n sun stroke..

but having fun..driving their car with some friendly competition


peace out



dave t

[Taylor]

I spent 6 of 8 events in the PITL Timing Tent last year, 100% of the duration of the event and at the timing computer for 80%+ of the time. Periodically relieved by Wes.

Neither of us drive Mazda's. There is no concious favoritism I'm privy to as a sponsor and co-organizer in that tent, at those events or at the meetings.

The biggest problem with PITL events is also one of it's benefits, the marshalling rotation. People spend more time walking around and yakking with their parner than they do paying attention. If marshalls were sent one at a time you might see an improvement. If they were sent out for a whole run, you'd more than likely never miss a cone. It's a 6/1/2 dozen situation. Same thing happens under the tent. You've got one computer guy, one guy reading off the times from the timing machine (which allows for data entry errors, though the times are still manually written down by the time caller so discrepancies can be delt with), and you have someone in there acknowledging flags. Then add in the stuff Wes mentioned. Someone in the tent also has to give the go-ahead for the next car, each car comes off and wants their time, some people come into the tent and start flipping through the pages. It's destracting and if the marshalls don't see an acknowledgement they sometimes put their flags down and then the flag guy under the tent doesn't see the indication of a cone and doesn't relay it to either the time relayer or the data entry person.

Truefully the PITL structure does not lend itself to too much benefit from having a lot of PIT time to work on your car, it's just not that kind of series. So it wouldn't be any real deal to leave people out for a whole stint, but it really helps the day go by smoothly. It also ensures people don't sneak out of marshalling duty, though we could enforce a loss of times each time you fail to do those duties.

One of the benefits with everyone generating friendships is also the ablity to abuse the relationship by showing up late and not paying a penatly. I know someone who had to pay the penalty one and they were pissed about it and as far as I know haven't went to another event. While I see his point, rules are rules, but they need to be appiled across the board. If this were the case, Dave over there would be broke. :)

As for PITL Classification vs Regional.

One series is fun, and another is anal. Sorry but it's true. This doesn't mean I don't want to do the anal series because it's noticably a better measure of ability than the PITL series would be. Though I find PITL a good medium between CCCC events and Regional. So I wouldn't want to see the PITL series change it's classification. There are 3 main series in the GTA, and they're at different levels of fun vs competition. C4 events are generally the most fun because you have to take the classifcation and your placement with a grain of salt. PITL is more competitive and much more highly attended. The courses are more difficult too I find. I enjoy them a bit more than C4 events, mostly because of the competitor numbers are doubled. Better chance of a legitamate battle. With C4, you kinda gotta battle with the people near your times, which can be a lot of fun for the new people. Though I know C4 has been trying to attract less new and more veterans. Anyhow nice big open lot.

The Regionals is really the place to go to prove something. The competitors are of a higher ability and the classification is better, though not without it's issues however as I understand it, new rules are likely to be adopted for the 2004 season which are a little more tried, tested and true. The venue changes up too which is nice. It's a true regional series, it brings out competitors from across Ontario instead of just Toronto and there are enforced rules.

As for the seat thing. Darren, I had a very similar experience where I essentially HAD to remove my seat if I wanted to compete. In the end, based on the way things went down, personally I got shafted, but hey the decision goes back to the rules and the rules said I couldn't do what I did. And I won my class that day, by 2 seconds. That move of me from Stock to Mod (no SS stop over for A1 cars) cost me the Class win. Course had I went to more than the minimal number of events I could have secured a win. So I'm very much to blame for the situation, but yeah I too expected some sort of lienency(sp) based on my situation, I thought I had it, but I didn't.

Anyhow I feel for you. But I learned a valuable lesson from it.

[StewPiddass]

No events / series are free from timing discrepancies... There was a timing mistake made at our last event (TLMC) that ended up costing me 3 positions at the event and second place in the final points standings. Oh well, good thing it's all for fun!

[andrew1984]

Originally posted by StewPiddass
No events / series are free from timing discrepancies... There was a timing mistake made at our last event (TLMC) that ended up costing me 3 positions at the event and second place in the final points standings. Oh well, good thing it's all for fun!

if thats the event im thinking of..

you slammed the van door on me and brusied my arm.

you were mad because the timing guy apparently told me the wrong time due to a pylon mix up.

no hard feelings though.:cool:

[StewPiddass]

I don't think I slammed a door? (did I?, if I did it was purely accidental, sorry!) not sure if you're thinking about me, I never hit any cones, must be someone else. I don't even recall if you were timing during my run. Anyway, I had been running sub 49 sec. runs all day, then I had what felt (to me anyway) to be my fastest run of the day by far... it somehow was recorded as a 57 or 58 something. Oh well, like I said, for fun... I so love this sport!

[andrew1984]

yeah, it could have been someone else. who knows, its in the past.

that day, i did one of my best TLMC times.



i remember i was in second place behind peter ban, he had brought out his civic hatch with the gsr engine. he had ftd of 46.4, and i went out and did my last run. that was my best TLMC run to date IMO. IIRC 45.2

man when i got out of the car, my hands were so shakey... i was almost trembling from the adrenalin rush.

TLMC's lot is a rush!:cool:

cant wait till the may event!

[StewPiddass]

Ya, TLMC Rawks! I beat Peter a few times last year (I love beating his GSR powered civic and Rich's GSR powered delsol with my wimpy 1.5) , too bad they just took all the 2002 results off the website to put up the 2003 schedule this week! I liked referring to that page. My best was second place (July event) You were stinkin' fast at that last event!

[ice/solo racer]

Thats whats great about this sport,beating(I know this is supposed to be for fun,anyone who says they do it purly for fun not competition is likely losing badly on a regular basis)cars that on paper you don't have a chance against.
Thats why car classing is a sore spot,the driver is the biggest part of the puzzle,BUT if I race against cars that are compared a little more closely than I know I likely got beat by the driver not the car.
I intend to run all the TLMC events I can because the lot and courses are top notch,I was dissappointed by the lousy lots and crappy course layouts at the regional events this summer.Picton airports pavement was put down prior to WWII and looked like a dirt track by the end of the day with all the top pulled off.Mosport events sucked-course used 2 slaloms run twice.Ottawa was a waste of time(and a ton of money!)Only events that were decent was the double header at the hershey center and the one at the bronte go station held by the corvette club.Peterbough had a lousy lot but really did a great job of designing a course to fit.(Lisa and I finished 1st and 2nd,I was over 4 seconds clear of 3rd place!)
I talked to galos at the ice race last weekend and he said the Molson center hasn't been confirmed yet,hope that lot isn't lost.He said their looking for a new lot and thought an event at the barrie speedway might work(I doubt it would,very narrow with outside concrete and inside armco)sunset speedway might be an option as it has a concrete infield for course possibilities.
I might be able to get the bracebridge kart track for an event,I'd love to run the corolla there now!

[Chris P]

Tom, don't forget about the event held at brampton entertainment center. No question thats the best lot around. Wait a sec, we only ran the SOLO 2 school there last year. Wonder why we didn't use it more................

[ice/solo racer]

Maybe I should have taken the school eh!
I hope people don't think I'm whinning,I just expected more of a regional series,and I know a lot of people worked very hard to bring us this series.I just won't be returning to a few of these venues if used again,so I hope the # of events goes up like Robb predicts to allow a little more pick and chosing.:)

[soloZ]

Well except for Ottawas event I was happy with all of the others events.

[ice/solo racer]

I guess you didn't tow a min. of 3-5 hours one way for an event Ryan.I'm just saying that I expected more thats all,6-10 hour round trip for 4 runs(3 in Ottawa)and wait around for hours after getting there on time for the thing to begin.(I leave before 6am,the least the organizers could do is start as advertised)
I enjoyed the the events,the competition and the great people I've met,I just thought the lots would have been in better condition.You weren't in Picton were you Ryan?The course layout was allright just the pavement was in very bad condition.(your car is also alot softer than my car so I feel every bump!).

[soloZ]

Yes I went to Picton, you are right especial about Ottawa I had this great expectaions about going there and then only three runs and I didn't beat Wes. We have all seen more drivers at a PITL event but we still get five or six runs, and the guy at the timing thing was a weird guy yelling at people hehehe. Oh well the sport can only get better if we all talk about the things we dislick so they can be fixed. Speaking about Picton that was the first time I had ever shifted to third gear at an auto cross :)

[Nissan Racer]

That was my first event ever, up 'til then I was led to believe that you only needed 1st and 2nd. I almost ran out of 3rd gear!!

[JoeT]

Picton was lots of fun. I was there at their last autocross of the season.

I'll be there again at their first Picton event as well. The airfield was not that bad, except for a forced chicane due to a sinkhole.

[soloZ]

Oh and what about the drive there, that is some nice country there especially around the lake or the river, the year before I was going along the 401 and then all of the sudden all I see is a blanket of fog. That was an interesting drive because I also found Steaven Tong on the high way so I followed him the rest of the way.

[ice/solo racer]

Before Picton I didn't even know my old car even had a working 3rd gear!Glad it worked or that event would have REALLY sucked eh!
Sorry I didn't remember you there Ryan,it'll never happen again I promise.

[finboy]

btw.. word on the street PITL guys are plan'n 2 PRO-SOLO's most likely to happen may long weekend, and august


may was stink'n cold last year... but pro-solo's are fun as hell!!

get your seat time in BEFORE these events.. no RAW rookies will be allowed to participate.


dt

[soloZ]

Finboy btw.. word on the street PITL guys are plan'n 2 PRO-SOLO's most likely to happen may long weekend, and august


thats grrrrreat I can't wait I am going to be in the stock class this year. I am removing my aftermarket rear sway bar(car didn't come with a rear sway bar).

[tanney]

Don't worry Ryan, I will make sure that I bring out the daily driver for the Pro Solo, just to be the sand in you vaseline....teeheehee.

Anybody want to buy a car that CAN beat that pesky, soon to be stock, Z24?

[soloZ]

Actually I like KY jelly

[tanney]

Yeah but sand in your ky jelly doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

[JoeT]

Ryan / Wes,

Sounds like you two have got something going. Don't let us interrupt. ;)

[tanney]

Joe.........why don't you come out and do some karting at HADA's Enduro on March 2nd and lets see if you can drive a kart as well as an all wheel drive "family sedan'!

I like all the s#$t talk, but I like better to let the machine speak!

(Let me know if anyone want details on Hada's Enduro at 401 Mini-Indy next weekend)

[soloZ]

Hey Joe you know how much I like the asian types(my girl friend) so if anything was going on I think you should be worried hhehehe eh there big guyyyyy.


You guys go to Mini Indy ewww, do they bring out good go karts for an enduro?

[Nissan Racer]

Do they use real engines there or do you have to pedal?

[finboy]

its a happening!!

Mark your calendars!

The 2003 Action Front / Push It To The Limit ProSolo dates have been set for


May 19

AND September 1, 2003

Returning to Square One Shopping Centre in

Mississauga.

Details to follow.


Dave t

[soloZ]

Wow one day before I start ASEP in Sept.