is power or handling more important?

[ADAM]

what do you guys think?

high power low handling car?
low power good handling car?
or mid power mid handling car?

[Nissan Racer]

Still worried about your car getting beat this year?

[TYSON]

That would depend on the track and driver, wouldn't it?

A low powered, good handling car would kill in autocross, no? A high powered, low handling car would do better on the Mosport main track, right?

Which car would a bad driver drive faster?:confused:

[Nissan Racer]

Originally posted by TYSON

Which car would a bad driver drive faster?:confused:
Answer...An SUV :)

[Marsh]

It is a fundamental truth of racing that when trying to lower road course lap times the single least effective part to modify is the engine. It takes a LOT of power to compensate for a poor handling car.

I personally think an in-experienced driver will be faster in the powerful car. A driver that is unaware of how fast corners can be taken will be slow on entry and turn in too soon in any car. I think a bad driver (has experience, but just isn't good at it) will be faster in a good handling car. Cars with low power comunicate mistakes more easily. The same mistake will go unoticed in a powerful car. "It felt fast on the back straight. So I must have nailed the corner!"

[andrew1984]

IMO low power good handling car.

[ice/solo racer]

Hey,lucky for me I have 1 of those eh!,don't forget weight into this formula for success.
For me the most expensive way to add speed is with power,a few HP for a few thousand bucks is out of the question.I'd rather unbolt something than spend the money on power.

[Keith-02Accord]

Why not have a high-power AND high-handling car!!! :p

[GR8 Ride]

Originally posted by Keith-02Accord
Why not have a high-power AND high-handling car!!! :p

I'm going to agree with Marsh on this one, and even in-spite of the track, I'll take a good handling, low-HP car over a poor-handling, high HP car anyday.

A good driver may be able to make a poor handling car do well on the track, but factor in a 30 minute race, or Enduro race, and all that work involved in keeping a wild car under control gets to you after awhile.

On the other hand, an good handling car is generally easier to drive, and takes less physical effort on the driver's part to muscle it around the track. It becomes finesse, rather than endurance which makes the car successful. Over the long term, this makes it easier on the driver.

That being said, I drive a good handling, low HP car around Mosport. I generally don't have much of a problem with high HP cars with poor handling (in the instructor group) at BMW-CC events. There are maybe 5 or 6 cars quicker than mine around the track, and they are generally prepared to the same level as mine, or above.

If you want both top-notch handling AND tons of power, go buy a Z06. Still hard to beat that car, when driven by the right driver.


Pat

[roooo]

Since I have a Protege MP3 ... I will also vote Handling > Power

[ADAM]

Originally posted by Nissan Racer
Still worried about your car getting beat this year?


no fear...i calculated that i have to drive 6% quicker on the larger tracks and only 2% quicker on the smaller tracks this year to be even with the z06's...i think it can be done

[Nissan Racer]

It would be good to see a Nissan on top :)

[ADAM]

though i have not heard a peep, or a sound from any of the V8 crowd..... i suppose they have the upper hand....

[StewPiddass]

the low power / well handling thing works for me. 1.5 Litre sohc non-vtec power baby!!!

[Brent]

I think all three would run roughly the same times on the pro track at Shannonville. Check last years times. I picked a miata from C, a BMW from B and a Mustang from A. They run roughly the same times. Although the miata would win at solo 2, the mustang would win 1/4 mile and the BMW would be best for taking the family out. It depends on what is important to you.

[Dave Barker]

Originally posted by ADAM
what do you guys think?

high power low handling car?
low power good handling car?
or mid power mid handling car?

I would pick the mid power car and mid handling car but in actual fact the high power low handling car can be the most fun and Camaros are much cheaper than BMWs . The low power great handling car means that fewer corners count . After all if you can do them flat out then they really aren't that much of a corner . Shifter carts sound like a hoot but in the long run I am happier that I have to pick out braking points for more corners. I agree there is a lot of skill in maintaining momentum but balancing the braking and turning in a higher powered car especially one with 250 to 300 lb of unsprung live axle is a real challange. ( And you always thought Camaro/Firebird / Mustang drivers were just stupid and couldn't ever learn to control that torque). I have driven rear wheel drive cars with IRS and it is much easier and certainly much more predictable, i.e. those bumps going into Turn 3 on the Pro track certainly are much harder to contend with in a live axle car but the torque is nice getting out of the hairpin.


Adam the main factor you did forget was wgt. There is no doubt that lighter is more fun and unfortunately for most of us, to get power we need to have more wgt. Your response with the mega turboed Nissan may be just the right answer ( as long as it holds together)

The other issue as already mentioned is it depends on which track. My car with subframes weighs over 3500 lb and is not condusive to good times at the DDT where I get soundly trounced by various light wgt front wheel drive cars . OTOH TMP holds some promise ( if only I could learn the Sorensen method of attacking the "S"s or got a better diff) and the "real " track at Mosport means I can say "Syonara" ( spelling??) to all those HADA weasels as even the ITRs disappear in the rear view mirror. Remember that at higher speeds , wgt/hp means little compared to just hp itself. BTW before Eric J jumps in with another criticism of the linear system, the reason we didn't consider HP on its own in calculating base PI is that we don't run any high speed tracks.

[ADAM]

you CAN learn the sorenson method...when going thru the corners just take the shortest line from A-B..and drive over every rumble strip you can see :)

(and hope your suspension does not collapse )

:)

[Chris P]

Actually you need to "straddle" the rubble strips :D

repeat after me........STRADDLE




On our tracks mid power mid wieght. Good handeling and low HP is boring as ass. it takes much less driver to get everything out of a lowhp good handeling car. Your very restricted in what the car can do, however with a mid hp or high hp car where with the right driver you can squeez a little extra outta it.

Then again, with these imprecise terms were are using the correct answer is they will all run the same time......OWN3D

[ToyotaAutoXer]

I don't have any power, so I vote handling!

[pacivic]

hey all

i've just been reading through this thread ... (not a bad way to get my week started)...

i would say handling over power... in order to take advantage of the power available you need to have good handling (launching/accelerating, cornering, braking, etc...)

...from riding motorcycles i would say that in most instances it would be very hard to take full advantage a bike's capabilities... rider skill (in relation to handling) will get you through an infield faster than big bore liter power...

maximize the car's potential through handling and driver skill...

d :)

[Shaman]

High power is fun, fun, fun!

[Moose]

Hey Shaman .... High power is fun as long as your Flywheel stays attached to crank
:p

[Shaman]

Got that problem fixed back in 2001.

[Moose]

YA YA

torque to yield bolts ..... Still have not seen you since .... Seems kinda fishy to me ;)


Moose

[Shaman]

That's a lot more to do with the fact my engine builder has held off two years fixing the machining problem they caused. It was leaking coolant into the oil around a cylinder jacket. They've had it since August and my patience has officially run out.

[Moose]

Well that Sucks !!!

I hope you get it together and have it running this season I miss the "rumble" you beast lays out on its way arround the track

Moose