Disclosure of car classification

[jonweir]

Just a couple of questions and comments regarding car classification:

The rule requiring the vehicle's class to be written on the car didn't seem to be followed very well. For a new competitor like me, I found it difficult to determine who was in my class and what my overall pace was.

Is there any disclosure of car classification with the results? Not that I suspect any foul play, but I could have swore I saw an NSX listed in my class (GT2)...
Plus, it would be a good way to learn what actually makes cars fast.

[thgear]

Just a couple of questions and comments regarding car classification:

The rule requiring the vehicle's class to be written on the car didn't seem to be followed very well. For a new competitor like me, I found it difficult to determine who was in my class and what my overall pace was.

Is there any disclosure of car classification with the results? Not that I suspect any foul play, but I could have swore I saw an NSX listed in my class (GT2)...
Plus, it would be a good way to learn what actually makes cars fast.

when the results get posted they are sorted by class

also during an event you can see the class breakups and their associated cars

if you want to see where a car starts off as its base class, check out:

http://www.macrocosm.on.ca/ccdb/ for a full listing of all available cars

a base acura NSK is listed under SGT3, there is always room for error in the timing department especialy at the first event and with people who have never been to an event before, who get classed wrong. The reason it takes awhile for the results to actualy get posted for public view is so that we can go back and check any such small discreprencies.

[Todd #65]

I noticed that NSX in GT2.... I was just going to bring a Ferrari and run in GT1 at Shannonville :p

[jonweir]

I noticed that NSX in GT2.... I was just going to bring a Ferrari and run in GT1 at Shannonville :p

So I'm not going crazy! I thought I needed to have my eyes checked, Civic and NSX in the same base class....

[jonweir]

when the results get posted they are sorted by class

also during an event you can see the class breakups and their associated cars

if you want to see where a car starts off as its base class, check out:

http://www.macrocosm.on.ca/ccdb/ for a full listing of all available cars

a base acura NSK is listed under SGT3, there is always room for error in the timing department especialy at the first event and with people who have never been to an event before, who get classed wrong. The reason it takes awhile for the results to actualy get posted for public view is so that we can go back and check any such small discreprencies.

Is there anywhere you can view other competitors' prep schedule?

[ScotcH]

Is there anywhere you can view other competitors' prep schedule?


Ummm .. no :) That would be a closely guarded secret that only the CCC has access to. This is a competition after all! I'm sure most would be willing to share their setup with you if you ask nicely :D

[G-ForceJunkie]

The NSX was in SGT3 last year at the Mosport GP. I would assume it's a mistake that it was listed in GT2 this past weekend.

[thgear]

my car is tuned by ex KGB agents...

these guys are also an influence:

http://englishrussia.com/?p=835#more-835

[thgear]

Ummm .. no :) That would be a closely guarded secret that only the CCC has access to. This is a competition after all! I'm sure most would be willing to share their setup with you if you ask nicely :D

you have an email

ANSWER IT NOW!! :cool:

[jonweir]

Ummm .. no :) That would be a closely guarded secret that only the CCC has access to. This is a competition after all! I'm sure most would be willing to share their setup with you if you ask nicely :D

Are you serious? I'm not asking for their spring rate or alignment settings, just if they are taking a point for springs or non-stock alignment. I can't see why anyone would want to hide that information.

I don't think that information should be guarded. Allowing access to that information would act as another check to ensure all vehicles are classified accurately. We don't have the provision or manpower to check all the vehicles (or any for that matter) against their prep schedule.

In addition, how many of the CCC are also competitors in contention for the championship?

[MazdaMatt]

You shouldn't worry about cheaters in a series that has no prizes.

[jonweir]

You shouldn't worry about cheaters in a series that has no prizes.

That doesn't stop people from being competitive.

[ScotcH]

That doesn't stop people from being competitive.

Competative is one thing ... cheating is another. In most cases, we give the benefit of the doubt that the "cheating" was unintentional (ie, misinterpretation of a rule, or something). There is a formal process for submitting a protest if you suspect someone is cheating. Opening up the CCDB to everyone is just not a good idea, and at this time, not possible anyway (I don't have time to change the web site). If you want to know what a particular car is running, then ask!

[thgear]

Are you serious? I'm not asking for their spring rate or alignment settings, just if they are taking a point for springs or non-stock alignment. I can't see why anyone would want to hide that information.

I don't think that information should be guarded. Allowing access to that information would act as another check to ensure all vehicles are classified accurately. We don't have the provision or manpower to check all the vehicles (or any for that matter) against their prep schedule.

In addition, how many of the CCC are also competitors in contention for the championship?

that information isnt really guarded.. as Arek said its just not accesable by public means simply due to the database infrastructure, if you are willing to design us a new database that would integrate simultaneous public and administrative multi level access with synchronization with other databases... by all means.

also one could lie on the database just as much, just because a person put their pip schedule on doesnt even mean its the real thing...

like i have camber plates listed for my car, but for the first event i didnt even have them installed, ohh well, thats a moot point because i would have been in the same class regardless.

[jonweir]

Competative is one thing ... cheating is another. In most cases, we give the benefit of the doubt that the "cheating" was unintentional (ie, misinterpretation of a rule, or something). There is a formal process for submitting a protest if you suspect someone is cheating. Opening up the CCDB to everyone is just not a good idea, and at this time, not possible anyway (I don't have time to change the web site). If you want to know what a particular car is running, then ask!

I didn't mean to accuse anyone. :o I was thinking that we can all learn a little more? I wouldn't mind if someone went over my prep schedule to make sure that I'm interpreting the rules correctly. I figure it shouldn't be necessary to submit a formal protest...

Anyways, it looks like its not possible, and nobody wants to anyways...

[Cap'n Pete]

Arek, I don't mean to hi-jack this thread or anything, but what if a car is/was incorrectly classified, and ran an event, but in the wrong class (due to being classified wrong in the first place)?? :confused: You said there is a process to protest "cheating", but what about "errors" in general?

Reason I ask is because for this past weekend's event @ the DDT, my car was classed in SGT3, when I believed it should only have been in GT1. Since your computer died just before you were going to check on it, I had to run in SGT3. I've now gone into the database and confirmed, my car should in fact be in GT1 (I even added 2 extra PIP's, but it's still in GT1). I'm sure it's an administrative "head-ache", but can/should this not be corrected against the weekend's official results?? :confused:

Pls let me know ... I'd like to get it straightened out before the next event.

Thx ... Pete :cool:

[craig]

Transparency is the best policy IMHO.

[CobraStang]

I'm sure it's an administrative "head-ache", but can/should this not be corrected against the weekend's official results?? :confused:I believe the rules state that you must protest within 30 minutes of the results being posted. Same thing happened to me my rookie season.

[jonweir]

I believe the rules state that you must protest within 30 minutes of the results being posted. Same thing happened to me my rookie season.

That's a tight window considering the official results are posted online whenever they are completed...

I would assume that the previous event's results would be open to discussion anytime up to the next event.

I agree that transparency would be the best policy.

[thekid]

That's a tight window considering the official results are posted online whenever they are completed...

I would assume that the previous event's results would be open to discussion anytime up to the next event.

I agree that transparency would be the best policy.

The unofficial results are posted at the event, following the event. Once they are posted that is your time to review them and request changes or protest if necessary.

I know that in Solo 2 once they've been posted for 30mins they become official, not sure if Solosprints do the same thing.

[Todd #65]

I agree with Jon that it doesn't make sense to make results official after being posted for 30 minutes when nobody (except for the person posting) is notified or aware of the official posting date and time.

ie. They could be posted on Sunday morning at 4am and nobody is going to see them within that 30 minute window.

[G-ForceJunkie]

2.12 OFFICIAL RESULTS
.1 Official results should include:
a) Name and date of the event;
b) Name of the Chief Organizer, Clerk of the Course, Chief Timer, and
Steward(s);
c) The words: "sanctioned by Canadian Automobile Sports Clubs Ontario
Region";
d) An acknowledgement of sponsors;
e) Name of each competitor including first name, not initial;
f) Club of each competitor;
g) Vehicle sponsors if recorded on the entry form;
h) Make and model of car driven by each competitor;
i) Time for the best run/lap including penalties, for final position;
j) Results published in classes, in the finishing order;
k) A complete list of all trophy and prize-winners

.2 Copies of the official results of any event requiring a permit (schools exempt) must be mailed or emailed to the CASC-OR office and the SoloSprint
Director.

.3 Official results for the Regional Championship must be postmarked or
emailed within eight (8) days of the event and posted to the SoloSprint
website within fifteen (15) days.

.4 Official results that do not comply with all of the above shall be returned to the Chief Organizer with a directive to re-issue them in the proper form and/or the performance bond (if applicable) shall be forfeited.

.5 The event results are provisional for 30 minutes after being posted, at which time, if there are no protests or appeals the shall become Official.
I assume that would mean posted at the track after event. 30 minutes is still a small timeframe though, considering there is no announcement when they are posted. Is there provisions for obvious mistakes, such as that NSX in GT2? But, it looks like as of the rules now, you actually have to protest to get that fixed...

A vehicle that is wrongly classified or is not officially classified may be
protested as specified in the GCRs.

[thgear]

:rolleyes:

geez people

if you have a problem, tell us, we'll try to fix it.

if you believe someone is cheating, bring it to our attention

end.

[jonweir]

:rolleyes:

geez people

if you have a problem, tell us, we'll try to fix it.

if you believe someone is cheating, bring it to our attention

end.

Ensuring all competitors have their class listed on the side of their car would help clarify things.

I don't want to accuse anyone of cheating. I'm still learning the ins and outs of car classification, so I'd like to be able to look at other people's prep schedule and class first to see how they fit in their class. Most likely the situation is that I am misunderstanding the rules, or the vehicle is actually in a different class.

[ScotcH]

:rolleyes:

geez people

if you have a problem, tell us, we'll try to fix it.

if you believe someone is cheating, bring it to our attention

end.

Agreed ... it's really not that complicated ... we really do want to have fun, and we are all friends in the end (except for those pesky Mustang guys ;) )

Obvious mistakes (like the NSX) will be fixed. Other isses, such as a misclassed car (Pete), you're likely SOL for that weekend since this is really the competitor's responsibility ... my laptop was back up after I got power, and it was available on Sunday morning as well (not to mention for months prior to the event :) )

[Cap'n Pete]

Other isses, such as a misclassed car (Pete), you're likely SOL for that weekend since this is really the competitor's responsibility ... my laptop was back up after I got power, and it was available on Sunday morning as well (not to mention for months prior to the event :) )
Arek, when I logged onto the classification website yesterday (because it was unavailable until then since the weekend) my car immediately showed up as GT1 :confused:. It did not say SGT3. The date showing for "last updated on:" was listed as October?! :confused: Like I said to you on Saturday morning, the last I knew, my car was classified GT1, so I was confused why the registration had me in SGT3. I did make a couple updates yesterday, actually ADDED 2 more PIP's to my car, and it's STILL in GT1.

... I'm still confused?!?! :rolleyes:

[ScotcH]

Arek, when I logged onto the classification website yesterday (because it was unavailable until then since the weekend) my car immediately showed up as GT1 :confused:. It did not say SGT3. The date showing for "last updated on:" was listed as October?! :confused: Like I said to you on Saturday morning, the last I knew, my car was classified GT1, so I was confused why the registration had me in SGT3. I did make a couple updates yesterday, actually ADDED 2 more PIP's to my car, and it's STILL in GT1.

... I'm still confused?!?! :rolleyes:

Ok ... so you're saying that the car is GT1, and is listed as GT1 in the CCDB, but in the registration database it is SGT3 (which is what drives the timing, and the results)? This is definitely a different matter then ... it is a mistake, rather than a misclassification. You need to contact the event organizers and let them know (it should have been done as soon as you saw that it was incorrect ... maybe you did, I dunno).

I think we need to have a sanity check at the start of the event, where everyone needs to check that they are in their proper classes. You can see which class you are in as soon as the first set of results is posted (after the first run group is done usually). We (the CCC and the organizers) try to check everything, but we simply don't know everyone's cars, so some stuff slips by. Sorry about the confusions, Pete ... subsequent events should be much smoother by comparison :)

[Anamaria]

Pete and all, there are so many systems and databases involved in car classification/registration/timing, that once in a while one of them refuses to take the information that the other one is giving .... it happens... it may also be a human error at any of those stages, who knows... but rest asured that we do all that is within our power (and we have a lot of power :D ) to straighten things out and complete the process to the best of our abilities and resources, but you guys have to let us know!..... ... I don't remember receiving one single complaint re: wrong classes during the weekend (maybe somebody else did? organizers?)... all I heard was "I'm not listed!"

Please make sure that you review your car description, number and class once the groups are posted after the morning's drivers' meeting and if there is something wrong, let somebody know (preferably me!) before the event starts

The results should be ok for the next events (and will inlcude corrected data from the first events)!

[craig]

I agree with Jon that it doesn't make sense to make results official after being posted for 30 minutes when nobody (except for the person posting) is notified or aware of the official posting date and time.

ie. They could be posted on Sunday morning at 4am and nobody is going to see them within that 30 minute window.

30 minutes is the norm in motorsport. The posting place is the same place as other results (gridding, etc.) are posted, and they are posted as soon as possible after the conclusion of the last run of the event, i.e., each day. If force majeur interferes and the results have to be posted at another time or place, then the organizers and steward have an obligation to define a new period, etc., that is reasonable ...

As for the class error, it works both ways, so it can't be changed without violating the GCR's, IMHO. Suppose your time was good enough to win GT1 (I don't know anything, I wasn't there) - the person who thought they won GT1 is screwed over for no fault of their own - they could have backed off during the event to get consistency, for example.

[Cap'n Pete]

Don't worry ... I'll just be moved to the bottom of GT1 instead of the bottom of SGT3, that's all!!! ;)

..... and on a side note, will the Solo Ontario website be updated with the 2007 results soon?

[opal]

Ensuring all competitors have their class listed on the side of their car would help clarify things.

I don't want to accuse anyone of cheating. I'm still learning the ins and outs of car classification, so I'd like to be able to look at other people's prep schedule and class first to see how they fit in their class. Most likely the situation is that I am misunderstanding the rules, or the vehicle is actually in a different class.

As far as clarification goes, the classes are posted on the grid list, on the results posted after each session... all listed by the identification numbers that MUST be on the car if you want on the track. There are plenty of ways to go about finding out a class even when people don't put it on their cars - and yes, I'm one of them for two reasons: (1) it potentially changes each year and I won't want to buy new magnets every year (admission I'd rather put the funds into other things, as well as not waste perfectly good magnet) (2) classifications are posted all over the place at an event, so any person can pin down where I belong by reading the lists.

If event organizers object to this, then I'll put it on - masking tape ho! - but in two years no one's stated any sort of caring on the subject.

As for how people fit into a class, keep in mind a few factors:

- the car itself (what we do to our Civic is dependent on how we prefer it handles - others disagree and do modifications in other ways)

- the knowledge and budget of the driver/mechanic (lack of knowledge, budget, and different theories all add up to very individual solutions for car prep, and vastly different EFFECTIVENESS levels of the modifications)

At the end of the day, I care about how well I did (stop laughing) compared to those in my class. How they prepped their cars to get in my class is irrelevant to me. They're there, I'm there, and the only thing I can change is my own setup. It's much more likely that I'll get the information I need in dialog than I will from the database, because I need to know why, not just what.

[thgear]

opal speaks! :eek:

btw i'm stealing your avatar...

[CobraStang]

For the CCC members and event organizers, there's no need to be apologetic. You folks do a great job, and the linear classification system works fabulously!

As far as class changes and magnetic numbers are concerned, you only need to peel off one or two letters from the magnetic sheet, and apply new ones, so it shouldn't be a significant cost. Its a simple and inexpensive rule to follow. The veterans may know who else is in their class, but let's help out the rookies by observing the rulebook.

[msix]

I was surprises at the lack of propper numbers at the event # 1 & 2.
I thought for Solosprint it would be much strikter in terms of complying to the rule book and a step up from Solo 2 where it is more casual. At Solo 2 anybody can walk in, make a number with shoe polish or masking tape and is ready to go.

I have a set of numbers for Solo 2 that are 6" high and 4" letters and chose not to use them because it may be rejected. So I went out to get new magnetic vinyl, had 8" numbers made up and made three sets, since that's what it states in the rules.
As there was nobody using a third set of numbers, I did not bother attaching mine either.

It does not matter if there is a price to be won or not. A lot of people put in a lot of time to come up with Classification rules and a general rule book to make it a safe and fair event for everyone. This effort should not be wasted by people choosing to ignore one or the other rule because it is inconvinient or costs $40 more. Numbers have not much to do with safety, but they are in the rules, so it should be followed.

Otherwise I will make a shortcut across the infield the next time and ask to overlook this minor deviation from the rules to follow the layed out track and hope my time will be accepted as FTD. :D

I shut up now.

Klaus

[thgear]

I was surprises at the lack of propper numbers at the event # 1 & 2.
I thought for Solosprint it would be much strikter in terms of complying to the rule book and a step up from Solo 2 where it is more casual. At Solo 2 anybody can walk in, make a number with shoe polish or masking tape and is ready to go.

I have a set of numbers for Solo 2 that are 6" high and 4" letters and chose not to use them because it may be rejected. So I went out to get new magnetic vinyl, had 8" numbers made up and made three sets, since that's what it states in the rules.
As there was nobody using a third set of numbers, I did not bother attaching mine either.

It does not matter if there is a price to be won or not. A lot of people put in a lot of time to come up with Classification rules and a general rule book to make it a safe and fair event for everyone. This effort should not be wasted by people choosing to ignore one or the other rule because it is inconvinient or costs $40 more. Numbers have not much to do with safety, but they are in the rules, so it should be followed.

Otherwise I will make a shortcut across the infield the next time and ask to overlook this minor deviation from the rules to follow the layed out track and hope my time will be accepted as FTD. :D

I shut up now.

Klaus

i can bet you alot of the people breaking the rules are the people that have been doing this for some time

like me.. i dont put T3 on my car because well... everyone knows already! lol

plus, the way our gridding works, people will be shoved around all the time back and forth, you'll have guys in GT4 be ahead of SGT3 and guys in T3 sometimes ahead of guys in GT4...

so REALLY what matters are the results at the end of the day, i dont know about you but i personaly dont even look or care for what class a cars in on the grid, because it really doesnt matter...

[jonweir]

i can bet you alot of the people breaking the rules are the people that have been doing this for some time

like me.. i dont put T3 on my car because well... everyone knows already! lol

plus, the way our gridding works, people will be shoved around all the time back and forth, you'll have guys in GT4 be ahead of SGT3 and guys in T3 sometimes ahead of guys in GT4...

so REALLY what matters are the results at the end of the day, i dont know about you but i personaly dont even look or care for what class a cars in on the grid, because it really doesnt matter...

I can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcastic? I don't think we care why you're disobeying the rule... I care if we're all following the rules.

The first people I see breaking the rules are those who are involved in organization and/or have the most experience. Same goes for black flags.

I get tired of hearing organizers bark rules at us during meeting after meeting as if we're children with no common sense, yet the worst offenders appear not to be the novices.

For the record: I do remember being told to have our class on our car during the drivers' meeting, and I ran masking tape numbers and class designation all weekend (even changing numbers back and forth in the rain for multiple drivers).

[thgear]

I can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcastic? I don't think we care why you're disobeying the rule... I care if we're all following the rules.

The first people I see breaking the rules are those who are involved in organization and/or have the most experience. Same goes for black flags.

I get tired of hearing organizers bark rules at us during meeting after meeting as if we're children with no common sense, yet the worst offenders appear not to be the novices.

For the record: I do remember being told to have our class on our car during the drivers' meeting, and I ran masking tape numbers and class designation all weekend (even changing numbers back and forth in the rain for multiple drivers).


its a comfort thing, alot of the experienced people know what to do when they see something go down before even being told or marshaled to take evasive action

you are right, it reflects bad on the entire organization, but when some rules get bent ever so slightly, most of us dont make a fus out it, atleast i dont, because the end results is a smoother running machine.. think autonomy.

[ScotcH]

Guys ... let's please not encourage or argue the merits of rule "bending". They are there for a reason. I can see how class designations seem unimportant, but think of it from the timing perspective: If we notice GT3 on your car, but it comes up as GT1 on the timing system, we have the opportunity to correct it (or at least flag it for review) ... if you don't have your class on the car, we have no way of knowing if the car is missclassed.

As for numbers, this is simply not negotiable ... we NEED clear and big numbers (of contrasting colour!) so that they are easily seen from the timing tower/tent. Klaus: The hood/roof numbers become important at tracks with walls (like SMP or DDT) where the sides are hidden as the car goes by (yes, I know I'm guilty of not having hood/roof numbers, but will for the remaining events!)

If people like Brad can have 8 set sof decals made (since his car is plastic, magnets will not work!), you guys should be able to get ONE set of numbers. Just thinks of it as car prep, like changing the oil, or bleeding the brakes (which everyone does, right???)

[thgear]

Guys ... let's please not encourage or argue the merits of rule "bending". They are there for a reason. I can see how class designations seem unimportant, but think of it from the timing perspective: If we notice GT3 on your car, but it comes up as GT1 on the timing system, we have the opportunity to correct it (or at least flag it for review) ... if you don't have your class on the car, we have no way of knowing if the car is missclassed.

As for numbers, this is simply not negotiable ... we NEED clear and big numbers (of contrasting colour!) so that they are easily seen from the timing tower/tent. Klaus: The hood/roof numbers become important at tracks with walls (like SMP or DDT) where the sides are hidden as the car goes by (yes, I know I'm guilty of not having hood/roof numbers, but will for the remaining events!)

If people like Brad can have 8 set sof decals made (since his car is plastic, magnets will not work!), you guys should be able to get ONE set of numbers. Just thinks of it as car prep, like changing the oil, or bleeding the brakes (which everyone does, right???)

i'm not arguing, you guys are totaly right, there is no merrit. Just sometimes a little understand is encouraged... :o

[jonweir]

its a comfort thing, alot of the experienced people know what to do when they see something go down before even being told or marshaled to take evasive action

you are right, it reflects bad on the entire organization, but when some rules get bent ever so slightly, most of us dont make a fus out it, atleast i dont, because the end results is a smoother running machine.. think autonomy.

Some of the 'experienced people' seem to think they are above the rules.

As a novice, I feel like a 2nd class citizen at these events.
I do my best to adhere to every rule, yet I'm still herded around and told what not to do over and over again.

Hrm, have I hijacked my own thread yet?

[msix]

Just sometimes a little understand is encouraged... :o


I would say ....
After all, these events should be mostly fun.

I am just commenting because the number of correct numbering seemed to be the minority and it might have been only because it's event # 1&2.
So I would think that next time they will ALL be the correct size.

Klaus

[opal]

Guys ... let's please not encourage or argue the merits of rule "bending". They are there for a reason. I can see how class designations seem unimportant, but think of it from the timing perspective: If we notice GT3 on your car, but it comes up as GT1 on the timing system, we have the opportunity to correct it (or at least flag it for review) ... if you don't have your class on the car, we have no way of knowing if the car is missclassed.

Point taken, Arek - I'll remedy this on our car for following events.

Note to Jon: I don't believe I'm "above" the rules. I'm merely lazy. Don't attribute maliciousness where stupidity will suffice ;)

I am curious to hear more about your feelings of second-class citizenship. Rookie or many years later, we're all hearing the same drivers meeting materials. What am I missing?

[craig]

I think we need to have a sanity check ....
Agreed.

(edit is deliberate :p )

[Chuck91GT]

The problem here is enforcement of the rules. The rules are there to create an even playing field for all competitors. We expect that all competitors are familiar with those rules and that they do their best to abide by them. Number size and placement on the vehicle, class size and placement, sponsor decals and their placement are there for obvious reasons. Missing or being late for a marshaling duty is another area that we are trying to address with our zero tolerance policy.

The Grid Marshall, for example, is responsible for making sure that each car has been scrutineered, that each person in the vehicle has a wrist band, that the cars are in their proper run order and that those ever present last minute changes have been made. We cannot ask that person to also make sure that numbers, classes and decals are present. That is your responsibilty as a competitor. The grid area is very confusing and frustrating at the best of times. Those responsible for the grid try their best to make sure that all competitors get in as many run sessions as possible. We strive for 4 but due to circumstances beyond our control we sometimes have to settle for 3. Having to check both sides of the vehicle while it is lined up on the grid would reduce the running time for all participants. That is not our goal in SoloSprint. So make sure your own car is in compliance and check the cars next to you in the pits. If they are missing something let them know. Do not degrade them intentionally or unintentionally in a forum post. If you can write about it after the event, then you knew about it during the event.

So let's strive to have fun and enjoy the events. That is why we are here! :) :) If there is a problem let either the Organizer or myself know about the problem at the time, not here in a forum days after the event. We will then address that situation then and there.

[Tashko]

While I unfortunately missed the first two events, and likely the next two, I feel this is yet again another one of those instances where the web, while being a great source of information, has been the cause of disturbance.

Just deal with things at the track! The organisers try their best to class cars properly. If things are out of whack, bring it to their attention and they will correct it. Nobody in SoloSprint is interested in beating somebody incorrectly classed. Everybody needs to follow the rules, lazy or not, and there is no reason for all this discussion.

I haven't been that active in the community, even though I try to make the events, but I hate to see the crap that goes on in the forums. Same holds true for the autoslalom forum.

Always, your first recourse MUST be speaking directly with the organisers of the event and the SoloSprint committee. Never should an issue appear in the public forums that the committee is unaware of. If you raise an issue and it's not responded to in an appropriate time frame (~1-2wks) then yes, raise it in the forums to get some action if your private messages go un-answered. It's like the person at work that cc's everybody about a simple issue and causes it to explode. Deal with as few people as possible to try get a result to your concern. It really grinds my gears when issues that can be dealt with privately are dealt with publicly because somebody was impatient. We are all in this sport to have a great time. Remember that when you have questions or concerns.

Once you involve the "public" you end up with countless un-informed opinions and here-say when all was needed was a quick private discussion with the authorities involved. If that issue involves the community, the committee can disseminate that information (i.e. numbers and class).

If people feel like they are being treated as second rate citizens it is surely not intended by anybody and most things can be taken different ways. Often it is just the fact that so much is going on and people may get flustered and short with answers or discussions. Things shouldn’t be taken personally. No-one is trying to scam; no-one is trying to put anybody down. We are all there for the same reason. To have a good time. If you are mis-classed, it can be corrected. It's not like the season is over after the event!

We have the same problem in the solo2 community where any small issue is posted on the forum and gains a life ten-fold of what it's worth.

<sigh>
</sigh>

p.s. don't flame me... PM me if you have issues with what I've said

[GOLF VR6]

I heard thru the grapevine that 'someone' was questioning my car too... A 21 year old 944 turbo simply because they noticed my new suspension... Wow, if you're that worried, maybe we should be running for cash or big prizes... Last time I checked, this is all for satisfying our need for speed and having fun with our community of friends / fellow racers... Just to clear it up, Arek personally pipped my car, and submitted it to the web because of the new suspension. The fronts are Koni OE replacement dampers with OE replacement Eibach springs, with camber plates to allow me stock alignment settings, and the rear is the stock OE 21 year old torsion bar still with the new Koni OE stock replacement dampers.. EVERYONE in the Solo community that watched my car on the track last year KNOWS how bad my old suspension was, so it had to be removed. Also remember, I have added a cage and extinguisher which are negative pips to offset the pips accrued for the suspension. Feel free to ask Arek for my pip schedule and you are welcome to look at my STOCK 21 year old Porsche at ANY TIME YOU WANT. If you're that worried about being beat, you're in the wrong sport. See you at SMP, and good luck this year. :D

[thgear]

its because its black and shiny derek, it just looks fast :D

[jonweir]

Also remember, I have added a cage and extinguisher which are negative pips to offset the pips accrued for the suspension.

I'm not suspicious that anyone is cheating, I'm still learning the rules myself. Based on your comment, I had a look at the rules again....

From the 2007 SoloSprint Rules 5.1 C Body & Trim:

"The negative bPIP(s) claimed for roll over protection and fire suppression
systems can only be used to offset bPIP(s) claimed under Body & Trim,"

:confused:
The changes you described in your suspension would only affect your sPIPs.


Unfortunately I won't see anyone this weekend at Shannonville, I'll be in Montreal for the F1GP. I will see everyone for the remainder of the SoloSprint season though.

[GOLF VR6]

That's because Raj and the boys at Discovery are AWESOME !
However, this person in question should look at the weekend results from #1 and #2... Im NOT the driver to worry about ..... "yet":cool:
An insight into the past.... my car finished 3rd overall in GT2 last year because Chris A didn't have enough weekends to qualify for year end championship points, and the Presswoods fell into the same black hole because they broke. I would have been a solid 5th! So thank you boys for handing over the trophy... :rolleyes: Hanif consistently spanked EVERYONE in our class with his civic hatch, and Carl W from Trac in his Acura does some spanking when he shows up too... G. in his/Opal's civic won the day Sunday at #2 the last I saw before driving my car in the trailer when it started pouring AGAIN for my last set of laps, so why take a chance in sliding off the track when I had no chance of improving my time as it rained for me AGAIN when it was our time to go out...So if there is worry about ME, a 5 year Solosprint racer, turned volunteer scruiteneer, slash HADA club sponsor, slash, 3rd-5th place finisher... Somebody really needs to re-evaluate who they are pointing the finger at, and maybe, just maybe, THEY should make the SAME OFFER and let ME go thru their car and PIP schedule... :rolleyes:

[GOLF VR6]

"The negative bPIP(s) claimed for roll over protection and fire suppression
systems can only be used to offset bPIP(s) claimed under Body & Trim,"
The changes you described in your suspension would only affect your sPIPs. ...

This is where it was confusing to me too so I asked the pip guru himself, AREK.W. Again, HE classified my car, not me.
and.... for the record, I didn't say it was you talking about my car...:eek: This forum isn't supposed to be used to slam other friends / drivers / cars..If someone has a beef, 'take it to the track':D

[craig]

Well, now I've got to look underneath your car. :p








JUST KIDDING. :D

Anyhow, Tashko says it all above.

Oh yeah, taking the curb weight option when the car becomes heavier gives you more PIP room within a class that can be used for anything.

[GOLF VR6]

Well, now I've got to look underneath your car.

anytime...anytime...:D

Thanks for the advice, I SHOULD take the curb weight option because then I'll drop down to GT3 with 217 hp and 2800 lbs+ the cage!

But for now, I'll stay put, I love the competition between the Presswoods and me. We get along great and help eachother out when we can, and then beat eachother up on the track... The way Solosprint should be ! :D

[thgear]

scared of ChrisP or somthing? :)

[GOLF VR6]

um...... YA !

[ScotcH]

"The negative bPIP(s) claimed for roll over protection and fire suppression
systems can only be used to offset bPIP(s) claimed under Body & Trim,"
The changes you described in your suspension would only affect your sPIPs. ...

This is where it was confusing to me too so I asked the pip guru himself, AREK.W. Again, HE classified my car, not me.
and.... for the record, I didn't say it was you talking about my car...:eek: This forum isn't supposed to be used to slam other friends / drivers / cars..If someone has a beef, 'take it to the track':D

The roll bar only offsets your race seats ... not the suspension. You take the full PIPs for your shocks, but you're still in GT2.

[Todd #65]

[HTML]

But for now, I'll stay put, I love the competition between the Presswoods and me. We get along great and help eachother out when we can, and then beat eachother up on the track... The way Solosprint should be ! :D

Yes, the great GT2 rivalries are continuing to build!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery Derek, and you can paint your car like ours but it's not going to make you any faster..... buahahahahaha

See you at Shannonville!

[GOLF VR6]

Arek, thank you for clearing the air on this issue. You da man...


Todd, how did you know that's why I painted it black !!?? :rolleyes: I just was hoping that the shiny paint would have a lower drag co. hee hee

[craig]

Well, now I've got to look underneath your car.

anytime...anytime...:D


Tell you what ... let me co-drive your car on Saturday, and if you're faster than me, I'll protest you. :o

No, wait, that doesn't work ... :p

I wish my 944 was running right ... :(

[thgear]

i wish MY 944 was running! or had wheels on it for that matter... and a seat, a seat would be nice.

[craig]

i wish MY 944 was running! or had wheels on it for that matter... and a seat, a seat would be nice.

Sounds like my 924 S :(

[shawn cormier]

What did i miss......I was fixing my car.:p

[shawn cormier]

AGAIN........:o

[GOLF VR6]

and a seat, a seat would be nice.

dude, I have 2 beige leather OE 944turbo seats at home waiting for a new home....

[thgear]

and a seat, a seat would be nice.

dude, I have 2 beige leather OE 944turbo seats at home waiting for a new home....

driver seat

pref a bucket

:)

i'll trade you my black leather seats for your beige leather seats for shits and giggles

[GOLF VR6]

Ok, but maybe one small change... I was thinking of trading you my seats for some cash... :D