pro solo !!

[ice/solo racer]

The copper corolla guy would like to thank all involved for providing such a great event,I had the most fun out of any solo 2 I've ever run.Very cool starts and a very busy course layout had the largest crowd I've seen on their feets for the entire elimination rounds.
I was very pleased to qualify 6th out a tough field and even happier with a 3rd in class when the dust settled(mostly my clutch dust!)A dozen back to back drag race starts certainly took its toll.
If only the two courses had been a little more even,the left lane was certainly faster,Tony would've been in trouble if I would've had lane choice;) .Oh well just to beat a supercharged mini with Tony at the wheel even once is reward enough.
Again a big thank you to the organizers,also good to finally get in the car and see all the people from last year.
P.S. Yes Wes I'll fix my exhaust before next weekend,BTW did your ears stop bleeding yet?

[Logan]

Yes!
Thanks to all!
I had a great time, although this probably wasn't the best way to learn what it's like to drive on R tires.
It's too bad there was such a difference in left vs right layouts.
I've never run there before, is it always the same lot with the same course?
I'd like to go back, but feel like it's a bit unfair.
Those elevation changes on the right side coming down the slalom really messed with the car, I'm sure the RWD would notice it FAR more than I did.

Thanks again all!
See you at the regionals (but not picton...)

[StewPiddass]

Congrats Tom, you did very well. It was fun standing with your cheering section while you ran.

That was a good event, the courses aren't always the same Logan, last time it was totally different. I liked the right side better but never really got much of a chance to be sure, oh well it was still worth $10 a run.

Thanx and congrats to the organizers for another event well done.


Also, congrats to Simon (7plymaple) for pulling out all the stops when it counted!

[Nissan Racer]

Too bad it was different rules for different cars.

[7plymaple]

Thanks Tod! I got a lot further than I expected! And thanks to the organizers for a CRAZY fun day! Pro Solos ROCK!!!!... YEAH!!!!

I did find the left lane to be much faster but the right lane was my favorite to drive. I liked going over the crest of the little hill just before turning in to the last pin cone. That just felt awsome.

[AndyC]

Nice driving Tom-- you and your car will be tough to beat this year in Solo2. --- I bet it takes a few days for your helmet to dry out, you had quite the work out!

[finboy]

in a perfect world, with perfect conditions it would be perfect to have identical perfect mirror imaged courses

in the real world, with limited parking lots to choose from, this is what we got.

with what we had to work with, we did our best to make the course times as close as possible.

considering the length, and time of the course, i thought we did a pretty decent job.

sure they might not have been identical, but the end result was 100th and 1000ths of a second in finishing differences.

on a real track, 1/4 mile or whatever, there is going to always be a perfered side....

what more do you want???

with out knowing the results, i perfered the right side, although when i asked a few of the top guns... they were mixed in which lane was faster.. but when i saw a blue miata line up on the left side.. i figured he knew better.

Nissan racer what are you refering to? if we made an error in a decision, speak up... if we did, it was settled with a re run.

so even if the organizers made a mistake, the two competitors would do battle again.

if there was a problem, why whine about it now, it should have been done at the event.

the weather was perfect, considering all the rain we've been getting, the attendance was great, the spectators were watching and enjoying the free entertainment and competition.

all in all, I thought the day was excellent, i know a bunch of people who just loved their first time participating in a pro-solo style format.

if you enjoyed the event.. great see you september long weekend.

if you didn't, well thanks for coming out and giving it a try.

these style of events are rare in southern ontario, when it happens.. its always fun.

i'd like to say thanks especially to those out of towners who made it out, and brought some different flavour to the event.

the local club chapters as well...

it made for a fun event.


dave t

[tanney]

Great day, great event! Good job men!

[StewPiddass]

Great work Dave, and kudos to you for having such thick skin, JoeT sure does like to give you a hard time doesn't he?!?

"Somebody get this guy a girlfriend!" lol

[eddie 82]

Awesome event, stupidly huge crowd turnout, rather disappointing to be one of the first cars driving back to the paddock during eliminations. I will get my revenge on that Cavalier though....hehehe....

I'll be there in September!

[Nissan Racer]

As long as the ruling was the same for everyone, it is fair. But if the same situation crops up with different rulings.
I got eliminated on a double fault (both sides faulted) but later cars got a rerun for a double fault. Complaining about it later, (actually concerns were raised at the time but no-one was listening) seemed pointless since the entire A group would have had to be rerun.

[Gord]

Well, speaking as one of the out of towner's, I had a lot of fun!

At first I was a little disappointed at finishing so far back, but after considering the *huge* difference in preparation level between my car and all the others there, I think I did pretty well. I know I gave up 3-4 sec easy just for my tires. I didn't see anyone else running on RS-A's ;) That and being my first time launching off a tree, first event of that format, first event of the year, first time driving this car... ok, maybe not so bad.

I found there was a difference between the courses, but I favored the right course. I think it depended on the person and car a lot and overall found it to be quite even.

Complaints? Relatively few:

1. The classification system is whacked. I questioned it before, and will say it again: why is my bone stock DIESEL in B-class? Most other people I talked to seemed to have a hard time with that as well. I don't know if that's the type of thing that Nissan Racer was refering too, but it is unbalanced to say the least.

2. Safety? There were a lot of things that would never fly at our events, and most of the other guys from our club noticed it too. Everything from where the timing/start/stop-box were, to where the cars were gridded, the where some of the marshall stations were (I orbited that post all session trying to keep it between me and the cars), to where the course went.

No incidents, but there was that one that I saw in A group where the Accord missed the stop-box on the timing tent side. I think the guy lined up there must have sh*t a brick! I know there are limitations on lot layout and size, but sometimes you just can't have what you want just in the name of increased safety.

Still, had lots of fun. Having an announcer reporting the action really takes the event to the next level I felt. Thanks for the comment on my "valiant effort" in the Bug.

-Gord

[GregR]

I noticed the same safety / layout issues as Gord did, but the absence of fatalities made me turn a blind eye to it. Yeah, the Accord's miss of the stop-box is definately an indication of potential crashes (not to blame the Accord in any way, but rather the locations should have been better set up). I did get dizzy having to circle the post, though. And what's the colouring convention on the flags? I realized that wasn't covered until I had to reach for a flag to indicate a cone penalty.

As far as the classifiations, a little different than what we're used to, but I had some fun runs, and somehow managed to qualify (only to get toasted by the 96 Miata). The #10 cow just isn't made for that kind of a course, but 6 runs for 40 quid ain't bad at all.

Other suggestions: spectators' cars on a SEPARATE parking lot from the competitor's cars! Too many non-competing people driving around and not knowing what's going on in the paddock was slightly irritating at times. Having people poke their heads inside the car to check it out is cool, but too much traffic in the paddock is not.

Cheers!

Greg R.
Prelude #10
Ottawa

[soloZ]

Yeah tell me about it^^ I was sitting in my car and then he got real close or closer then I was used to. At first I was like did he just miss something there??? and thenI realised :eek:

[ChrisM]

I haven't been to a Pro Solo in over a year and almost forgot how much fun they are. I turned down a huge "party weekend" at the cottage to attend. I'm glad I did!!!

The left course was faster, but I didn't like it at all, the right course liked my car better. By the time I got the car sorted out my qualifying time was only good enough to run the shoot out in D class.

I'm glad I got to run in that class even though I was eliminated right away.

Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS (springs + struts) on FZ4's VS. Porsche Boxster on R-Compounds.

This race was the most fun I've had in a LONG TIME!!!!!!!!!!

I actually won the first race... I "knew" I was going to lose, so I gave it everything. My clutch will never be the same after beating the Porsche to the end of the straight two times.

I lost the second race with a cone, and came into to box a little too late, and lost the third race by trying too hard on tires that were too warm and over presure.... enough excuses...

Thanks to all the organizers and MSOC for holding the best event of the year.... I'll see you in September.

Chris M.

[Keith-02Accord]

Yes, I am the infamous Accord! :rolleyes:

But I wasn't the only one to do it. Luckily nobody was injured at all, but I think the Stop box marshalls needed new underwear.

It only seemed to happen on the left side too, not on the right.

[Gord]

I should add the what Greg said:

Absolutely nothing against the guy in the Accord, he just made a mistake (we all have). I'm glad nothing came of it.

-Gord

[Keith-02Accord]

NP Gord, I didn't take any offence!

[finboy]

comments both negative and positive are welcome... that's what this board is all about.

in terms of things we can control, lets discuss it.

with things we can't...why bother??

if there are any issues at the event, say at the event, at the time of, not 24 hours later.

everything can be second guessed or played back after the fact.

everyone participating are experineced solo competitors..

if you were parked in front of the stop box.. lets blame everyone else.

do you need to be told, hey... it might make sense to park further back, and leave room in front of the stop box.. ???


yes classing is messed up.. no classing system that i'm aware of is perfect.

if you got a bullet, great, if you got a pig.. too bad.

are you blaming the classing for the type of car you have?

this event is for the masses, not individuals

at the drivers meeting, we asked if there were any questions.. anything we lefted out.

no one rasised an issue.



:confused:

keep the coments coming... septembers event is another day



dave t

[GregR]

Are you SURE that both positive and negative comments are welcome? Seems that all negative comments so far have been dismissed / slammed. :mad:

First of all, some things we did not notice until the event finished and we had time to think outside of race-mode. Other things we had to wing since it wasn't obvious how it was done. For example, I saw both yellow and red flags being used to indicate a cone. I'm used to using the yellow for it, but it seemed like this event had a different convention. This didn't become apparent until AFTER the meeting while I was marshalling and cones were flying.

Second of all, the layout of the track and how the cars were being arranged around the start / stop box were NOT up to the competitors! Did you fail to notice that the organizers were telling us where to situate our cars? Did you also notice that the huge number of cars in B and C+D qualifying times resulted in a lineup along the curb quite close to the course? I'm sorry, but once that short section between the tent and the curb is packed with cars, there ain't no space for the guy who just finished to move his car to! I would laugh to see the Corvette or Lotus cars jump the curb to get to a safe spot. Wait - there were spectators right at the curb. No way we're jumping THAT!

Wait - why did I bother with this anyhow? Negative comments aren't actually welcome.

Oh well, time for the positive comments. Huge turnout, good size course, nice to have variety (left side and right side - i preferred the right), and the "best 2 of 3" format is much better than "1 run" during the eliminations. Good price considering how much seat time I ended up getting.

[GregR]

Oh, one last thing. Experieced drivers still make mistakes, so safety is a nice thing to have. If nobody made mistakes (experienced or not), then we wouldn't need to have a competition and we'd all get our prizes mailed to us. :rolleyes:

[Gord]

Dave, I'm sorry if I have offended you in some way, but WTF was that?? :confused:

I will admit first off, I forgot to ask some things (like the marshalling stuff) at the drivers meeting. There was a lot to focus on already for those new to pro solo.

Greg is right about the gridding; we were told where to be, even if it didn't make sense. And I do feel that we were lined up *way* too close to the hot course. I myself just left as much room as possible, stayed out of the danger zones the best I could, and just tried to protect myself. Yes, I should have brought it up right then, but the heat of the competition clouds your mind.

And remember, sh*t happens! You don't get to choose when/where/how. All it takes is a mechanical failure or mistake for things to turn ugly. All you can do is protect yourself the best you can. But the point is, it should never get to that point.

Your right, there is nothing that can be done about it now, except to plan for it for the next event.

The classing thing I gotta address separately. Your right, no system is perfect, but some are better than others. This one is not one of those.

No, I don't want "preferential treatment" :rolleyes: even though everyone thinks my situation is particularly messed. I'm just pointing out that it is messed, and I'm not the only one that noticed it.

Your attitude towards what people drive is exactly the kind of problem I see with getting more new people into the sport. Looking down your nose saying "... if you got a pig, too bad" isn't going to encourage a lot of people to come out and play and have a good time. :mad: Or is this not about having anyone in any car coming out and having a chance?

-Gord

[Logan]

I agree: Some things come to mind after the event has already begun.

Did the organizers want to be interrupted from their already very busy jobs to take suggestions and questions from the competitors/workers? Probably not.

I KNOW this kind of event is just to have a good time and leave as many thick black marks on the pavement as possible, but it has to be frustrating running against a car where there is clearly no contest.
I think the classing system used works for what the type of event is supposed to be, if you make some exceptions. (in the case of the diesel beetle, move it to A, and what about that partly MR2? Maybe FWD/AWD/RWD subclasses?)

I don't know how the eliminations were set up, but it appeared the first runs were between cars with similiar times, is that correct?
How were the second round of eliminations set up? It appeared it wasn't done the same way, please correct me if I am mistaken.

I did enjoy myself, and am glad I bought R tires! It's too bad this class structure rewards those with larger wallets.

Suggestion: Next time move the start/finish closer to the middle of the lot and allow an open lane behind it to the lot entrance. That might alleviate the rising safety concerns.

Another question (my brain must have set itself to BrainStorming Mode): Are the other lots at sqaure one available to use instead of this one? Are they bigger/smaller? Going from memory they seem to have fewer elevation changes.

[finboy]

gord, i don't get offended easily...

maybe i should have said, comments will be taken for consideration rather than welcome.

this whole solo motorsports thing is for the weekend conehead.

if you have a great ride, perfect, if you have a lousy ride for competing in solo motorsports..

compete in the regional series where classing is as fair as possible.

for this style of event, there are 4 classes..

obviously there are going to be great cars and not so great cars..

but lets be real here.

if you got a great car.. great... if you don't... welll then don't expect to place at the top.

do you need things to be sugar coated?

you asked in a previous thread what class a turbo diesel bug
would be in.

we gave you the answer.

"Yeah, I've got a little more torque to play with . Unfortunately, I've only got a little over 2k rpm's to work with as well.

Ah, it'll be fun anyway. And who knows, the Type-R driver may get lost on course in my smoke screen! Just have to make sure the wind is blowing the right direction...

So, which class seems to get the biggest numbers? Based on the article posted above on the 2nd event, it appears to be the B class."

did you raise an issue with it then, at registration? no

will we consider it next time? maybe.

like its been said before, our classing is very general, we keep things simple.

especially for the pro solo style formats.. it has to be simple.

and yes stuff does happen, we try to make things safe and workable with what we got, with the numbers we got, and the space we got.

my attitude in what others drive is a problem? please..

how else would you like it to be said then.. if the person doesn't know they don't have a competive car, then that was their wake up call.

look at keith, he is at a total disadantage with the type of car he has.. but is a cool guy competing in a pig and having fun.

the pitl classing is far from being perfect, nor do we ever want it to be.. its simple and straight forward.



if you come out and enjoy it, great

if you disliked it and left a bad taste in your mouth.. thanks for coming, but stay home next time and play GT2

every event is a learning process... we've tried to make each event better than the last.

we'll see................


dave t

[finboy]

Originally posted by Logan
I agree: Some things come to mind after the event has already begun.

Did the organizers want to be interrupted from their already very busy jobs to take suggestions and questions from the competitors/workers? Probably not.

dt: not one person came up to me, to address any issues

I KNOW this kind of event is just to have a good time and leave as many thick black marks on the pavement as possible, but it has to be frustrating running against a car where there is clearly no contest.

dt: yes, is life fair, no

I think the classing system used works for what the type of event is supposed to be, if you make some exceptions. (in the case of the diesel beetle, move it to A, and what about that partly MR2? Maybe FWD/AWD/RWD subclasses?)

dt: a diesel car will most likely be re classed just because it is a diesel. (in the regional rule book aka "the bible"
are diesel cars classed differently?

and yes the mr2 on paper at registration was classed in B with a second driver in C

after seeing it on the course, and its condition, and tires, it was re classed.


I don't know how the eliminations were set up, but it appeared the first runs were between cars with similiar times, is that correct?

dt: for qualifying each class went at the same time, it didn't matter who you were up against.. it was the time that was important for seeding for the elimination rounds


How were the second round of eliminations set up? It appeared it wasn't done the same way, please correct me if I am mistaken.

dt: NO..the eliminaton rounds were paired 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc best 2 out of three


I did enjoy myself, and am glad I bought R tires! It's too bad this class structure rewards those with larger wallets.

dt: unfortunately that is the way life is..


Suggestion: Next time move the start/finish closer to the middle of the lot and allow an open lane behind it to the lot entrance. That might alleviate the rising safety concerns.

dt: nope.. if we did that it would make for an absolutely lousy course.


Another question (my brain must have set itself to BrainStorming Mode): Are the other lots at sqaure one available to use instead of this one? Are they bigger/smaller? Going from memory they seem to have fewer elevation changes.

dt: this is the lot we were given, this is what we had to work with, this is what we used.

large lots to run a pro-solo format are not available.. to get permission to use them is a totally different story

[GregR]

Man, no wonder you're single. Your attitude towards the competitors comments stinks. It's like we're not allowed to criticise how you and the organizers ran the event. Sheesh.

Sorry, but some of us from out of town that are mostly involved with local Solo-2 events aren't too familiar with the people running the event.

And did the yellow turbo diesel bug get reclassed? I saw him only on the B-class sheet.

Granted, more $$$ spent on a car gives it a better chance of winning an event, but grassroots motorsports (as was advocated ENDLESSLY via the PA system) is supposed to have a fair class for any car (except an SUV). So - did all cars get classed fairly as was advocated? Apparently not. But we're not allowed to say that because it's against what you think.

[GregR]

By the way, the event itself was great fun, and it did not leave a bad taste in MY mouth.

However, the way comments / suggestions are being taken on here IS less than cool.

[MastaDeeMon]

Great event, great people, great weather and awesome racing. I think I got 12 runs in with my little silver Civic. The course was lots of fun except the bumps but what can you do. I will often criticize the PITL events but boys I have to say thanks. All your hard work and planning, being there at 6:00 to setup and staying late to teardown should be applauded. You guys did a hell of a job and I look forward to running in the series this year. Being in the final 4 in B-class was an honour and as exciting as Solo gets. Thanks to everybody that helped put on the event. Bravo.

Darren

[AcidGord]

On a more pleasant note... Here's some pics from the event:

http://pics.spoon.org/Cars/MSOC-ProSolo-05-19-2003/

Dave: Taylor has high-res copies of all of them if you want them.

[J.C.]

Originally posted by finboy

the pitl classing is far from being perfect, nor do we ever want it to be.. its simple and straight forward.

dave t

Doesn't that make the victories at those events hollow/pointless? I mean why bother awarding a first or second it should all just be considered as fun runs then.

P.S. I only noticed afterwards but aren't all gates supposed to be 15' wide including the stop box? It may have been safer?

[soloZ]

Originally posted by MastaDeeMon
Great event, great people, great weather and awesome racing. I think I got 12 runs in with my little silver Civic. The course was lots of fun except the bumps but what can you do. I will often criticize the PITL events but boys I have to say thanks. All your hard work and planning, being there at 6:00 to setup and staying late to teardown should be applauded. You guys did a hell of a job and I look forward to running in the series this year. Being in the final 4 in B-class was an honour and as exciting as Solo gets. Thanks to everybody that helped put on the event. Bravo.

Darren


Those are some nice pictures thanks

[Taylor]

I have a lot to say about some of the comments flying around here, but my hunger is more important right now... so all I'll say this time is....

This is a ProSolo format. Classing HAS to be simple. Last year both events had mid 40 turn outs. Previous year we had #'s in the 80's and this event was 70. A class wasn't even completely filled.

This is the classing system. And there is more to a prosolo than just car classification. I've managed to beat a guy who 99% of the time beats me in a regular solo 2 by a second. And I've also lost twice now to Paul K whom we often trade events with. Heck I ended up loosing to a miata that qualified 15th! My mistake, but that's all part of it.

If you have a class bottom feeder (like MastaDeeMon (if you ask me)) then improve those driving skills to make up for it.. or... just skip the proSolo's.

If you want "anal" classification, do regionals, they have like 18 classes. Much closer competition. ProSolos are a whole other beast and need to be regarded as such.

[gatherer]

Well that was my first prosolo and I enjoyed it, I had tons of fun out there and found that the organization was pretty good, only thing I felt uncomfortable with was the size of the stop box...but I guess thats something I'll have to get used to as I compete. once again thanks to the organizers I had lots of fun

[Gord]

Dave,

Please take my comments as just that, my input on how things could be made to run better.

I wasn't even going to get into the classing thing until so many people were questioning why I was where I was during and after the event. I think given the nature of the event, you guys have the right idea (in term of limited classes), but I think it needs some fine tuning as to what cars go where.

I will be back to the next event assuming I can get down there and am still welcome. Next time I will hopefully have a better prepared car (and maybe a better class too...). And I am fully aware that I drive a pig. My cars have always been underdogs... it's more fun that way. :)

And let's put that dead horse to bed...

But back to the more important topic, the safety issue.

I'm assuming you guys are under CASC as a sanctioning body and therefore covered through their insurance? If so, I believe that you must follow their solo rulebook WRT safety, course design, etc. A lot of stuff didn't meet their rules (distance to solid objects, cars never closer than 50 ft, cone spacing, etc.) and that can come back to bite you in a big way if something ever went wrong. I know it's tough coming up with something that works (been there, done that), but given the consequences, I wouldn't want to chance it.

If you are under another body, thats a different story...

Just as an aside, I don't know if your club has ever been sued, but ours has and there turned out to be limits on how good the sanction bodies coverage is in terms of protecting organizers, etc. If the rules aren't being followed, it can be even worse.

Just an FYI and it may not apply to you.

Cheers,

-Gord

[alexb]

Darren,i believe Taylor just called you a bottom feeder.:eek:

[ice/solo racer]

Thanks for the kind words Andy C/stewpiddass,yes my helmet will likely still be damp this weekend when I stick it back on my head.Since my hair left I have no absorbtion left other than my lid liner!:(
I'm sure hoping to be hard to beat this year,I want to be one of the people all tied in points in the end hoping for a good back up.Last year was great but I'd to finish higher than 8th overall.
Its too bad you red lighted Andy,I guess I got you back for stomping me at the shootout eh!(revenge is sweet,he he)
Congrats to the guy in the little honda hatch,you did great man,didn't get to meet you with the helmet off,look me up if you attend any regionals.
IMO-Finboy lighten up buddy!!everybody loved the event and in no way were the comments intended to single out anyone as to be the cause of any minor complaints.I didn't think I had much of chance before attending but I came anyway(stayed overnight with a 3 hour tow one way)because of the expected intense competition.Your event rocked-do you feel better now?

B.T.W are the results to be posted somewhere?

[StewPiddass]

Yeah dave, It's all good man, I had a good day, I also wondered why there was a TDI Bug in B class and Miatas in A class but figured "oh well, it's their classes, take it or leave it" I think it's good that some people are expressing their concerns, that's how we make things better. I gotta admit I almost sh!t my pants once or twice while waiting at the start line when the guy who ran before me came in a little hot a couple of times and seemed to be heading right for me (and the timing tent for that matter).

Darren, I can't believe that little car of yours! Insane man! Congrats.

[MastaDeeMon]

Originally posted by alexb
Darren,i believe Taylor just called you a bottom feeder.:eek:

I believe he did too, but I'm not quite sure if I should be offended or not:(

Darren

[J.C.]

I would say the best way for retribution would be to beat him. However from what I have seen may I suggest you find out what he likes to drink and get him severly hungover the night before :D Better chance at him getting some cones.

[MastaDeeMon]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer

Congrats to the guy in the little honda hatch,you did great man,didn't get to meet you with the helmet off,look me up if you attend any regionals.


Thanks so much, racing against you for 3rd was the highlight of the day for me, awesome fun. Won't see me at any reg. events, not in the budget. The little Civic (not my car BTW)worked well, I was very pleased. Now if we could just get some HP.............

Darren

[Dave]

nice pics, Gord! Fun event, Dave, it takes brass for MSOC to run a ProSolo and IMO it adds much needed variety and enjoyment to grassroots motorsport in Ontario.

[JoeT]

Hi Y'all,

Hope you didn't mind my poking fun at some competitors. If you did, it was all done in jest and intended to get up some audience energy.

All in all, IMHO, it's was a great day. These things are extremely hard to organize, and lucky for me, all I did was stay at the mic when I wasn't racing.

Stewpidass,

I was going to leave "Finboy / Singleguy" alone this year, but the gold hair with the "Flaming" red tips, not to mention lots of prodding by his boyfriend "Jeff" kinda forced the issue.

See y'all at the races.

[Taylor]

I was talking about MastaDeeMon's car. :)

It was most likely the lowest HP/Torque vehicle competing.

(And yes, I know him personally)

Also... try not to take Finboy's comments too harshly. This is just Dave's way. And I respect it because a lot goes into just setting up these events. Ultimately we know the event rocked because we do the events a couple times every year. In addition to organizing over half a dozen regular season events as well. The PITL series is the highest attended series in Ontario. I think the organizers for the most part are aware of the obvious shortcomings and they exist out of necessity or compromise rather than oversight.

That said, the stop box thing was close, though every time I was out there, the other lane seemed like a world away. This just helps to enforce why the organizers want experienced competitors. I expect the stop box was a much slower situation the day the course was set up (not that day but a week prior to the event!). It was probably cooler out and more braking was needed for the turn before the box and it really was quite a long stop box. The courses are test run by a very experienced and consistent driver, I'm sure he, like I said, felt that coming back the other lane was a world away.

As for the sides being uneven, they were adjusted and matched within a tenth. While I felt the left was quicker, I did better on the right. Probably just the way my mind perceived the course. There is only one other lot there that's really an option and I have no idea if the club has access to it. In 01 we did the first event on the other side of the bus terminal, that lot was too small.

I'm sure the point is received regarding the proximity of those stop boxes and I would expect that will be addressed in the next event considering the number of people that did go off course there or the few that blew by the end cone.

As for staging.. yeah use your head, don't part your car perpindicular to the stop box.. that's just common sense.

JC: PITL series classification: Drivers who want a more car specific classification system should consider the regional series. PITL is a much more loose and fun oriented event. Fitting in between the COMP Corvette Events and the Regional events in terms of "fair" competition. This is why Finboy says they don't have a desire to change the classification. Yeah, all your runs should be fun runs otherwise what are you doing this for? There's no money in it and you're not going to get a seat in a professional series for winning it either. F-U-N...

GregR: Grassroots motorsports is about singular performance in a "back-to-basics" discipline. There's no written rule (and apparently I haven't seen the unwritten one) that states that classification has to be "fair" (and define fair however you want since it's all perception anyhow). The format of the event does not allow for additional classes. The organizers COULD drop D class all together but I don't think that's desirable, especially for dual driver C cars. Most everyone qualified where they should have (in my opinion), and as I said before, ProSolo is about much more than classification. Should the TDI beetle be reclassed elsewhere? Perhaps, though making exceptions will more than likely just breed more such requests because the classification system as worded just isn't fair to 5% of the cars out there.. or whatever. ProSolo should perhaps be taken verbatim.. starting with the word "PRO".

Oh also.. Nissan Rider ... the double elimination, if that was a double red-light.. because I know we did have one... that's an automatic loss on both sides, there's nothing else to compare because both cars loose before the run even starts. As for a double end-cone, that one is open to interpretation on who had the least penalty filled run.

So..umm..yeah that's all I've got to say... as a competitor, co-organizer, chief timer, and registrar for the event.

You want to hear a complaint.. how about the fact I only got to walk the course once! :P

Anyhow here's to a different angle or spacing on the stop box next time eh?!

[andrew1984]

the complaint that i would like to voice is the stop box.

a few guys went through the end cone, and were lucky to be able to stop before they reached the cars lined up.

but wasnt this too risky? i realize that space was very limited, perhaps it should have been designed differently. luckily there were no accidents, though there should be no "chances" taken, when it comes to such things. right?

[Logan]

Originally posted by finboy
Logan: How were the second round of eliminations set up? It appeared it wasn't done the same way, please correct me if I am mistaken.

dt: NO..the eliminaton rounds were paired 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc best 2 out of three

Suggestion for next year:
Run the eliminations 1 vs 2, 3 vs 4, etc.
The way it is now the fastest car competes against the slowest, next fastest against next slowest. The only "REAL" competition is 8 vs 9 who had very similiar times. Still run 2 out of 3, but this way it's a race all the way till the end, for everyone, instead of having no chance against a much faster car/driver (in the case of 16 vs 1, 15 vs 2, etc)

[Keith-02Accord]

Logan,

You're supposed to get an advantage for finishing first in qualifying.

Look at the NHL playoffs (or any prof. sport for that matter)..1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 5 and so on. If they did it 1 vs 2 and so on, nobody would give a darn about qualifying.

Besides there were quite a few upsets.

[Logan]

OK, good point.
Do it 1 vs 9, 2 vs 10, etc as you just suggested.
Still an advantage to qualifying, and more heated competition.

[Taylor]

I suggest against that and most certainly hope it is not done (and can probably say with some certainty that this won't change).

The reason why it's not such a great idea is because basically it means the competition dwindles down as the rounds proceed instead of building up. Also the 2nd or 1st quickest guy should not have to call it a day off the bat. You'd end up having people holding back during qualifying. Nope, veto...Can I do that Dave? Can I veto? :)

[Logan]

hmmm
well when you put it that way...
point taken, and understood. Carry on then!

[gatherer]

but if you do 1 vs 2 and 3 vs 4 and so on you'll end up with one of the better cars 1 or 2 being elimiated in the first round... which isn't fair to car one or car 2 which could beat most other cars on the grid...

keeping it like the 1 vs 16 2 vs 15 etc. format is a good format and a quick way to get down to the next round (less races going to 3 runs) this is also how NHL play offs are run, in that case it's the same reasoning to reduce the number of games played to save some time...

even though I was booted out in the first round of elimiation (I came 11th in the order, I think) I still felt like it was a great competition and if I hadn't mistakenly braked in the final section of the 2 race I might have just been able to take it to 3 runs ...