Rules for 2004

[AirCooln]

Here we are just half way though the 2003 season, and I'm already thinking about my plans for 2004.

Does any one know when the next seasons rule book typically comes out? I'm particualy interested in the potential new roll bar requirement. It plays a big part in directing where my money will be spent.

[DECH_92]

Go to www.casc.on.ca/
I think we use the same rules for roll bar and cages.
Be the same for next year.

[Dave]

Chris, the 2004 rulebook won't likely come out until February or so, though if we can get it out earlier (due to minimal changes being made, for example) we'll certainly try to do so. I think January is probably the very earliest we'd have the book out, but I'd expect mid February to be our target date.

With ASN (governing body for motorsports in Canada) forming a new National Solo Committee (Christian Sorensen, our Solo 1 Director is on this committee) its really hard to predict what'll happen with regards to safety regulations in 2004. It's possible, though I don't really know how probable, that there will be a national Solo 1 rulebook at least with respect to safety regulations. If this is the case and Solo 1 in Ontario isn't meeting the minimum standard set by the national rulebook committee then we'd obviously have to make the changes require to comply with the stricter rules. Christian could tell you more about this than I can, but it does appear (so far) that the national committee will be basing their rulebook on our Ontario Solo 1 rulebook since ours is the most developed one in the country. So its entirely possible no changes will be made to our safety rules, but we won't know until the work is done at the national level.

If you continue to run your Mini in stock (or close to it) form, I think it's highly unlikely you'll ever be required to put a roll bar or rollcage in it. However, if you ever run a car 4-5 classes above its starting class (meaning its fairly highly modified) its quite likely you'll be required to equip it with a minimum of a roll bar. I think it's unlikely Solo 1 will ever require a full rollcage, since there's no door-to-door racing going on. All that being said, a roll bar is never a bad idea, even on a completely unmodified car, since there's always the risk of a rollover happening when running your car hard on a race track and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Sorry I can't be more helpful,
Dave

[J.C.]

A rollbar is not that big of a problem for a trailer queen or a two seater, but for a daily driver four seater it creates a prblem. :confused:

[Dave]

JC, that's exactly why we want to leave room in the rulebook for cars that are stock or close to it (ie. our old Stock and SuperStock levels) to compete without being required to install a roll bar. But I think there's a strong possibility that cars that have moved up say 4 classes from their Starting Class (roughly equivalent to our old StreetPrepared level) will be required to install a roll bar in 2004. This is, in my opinion, a pretty reasonable thing to require given that a significantly modified car has speed potential that is likely well beyond what the engineers envisioned when they built the car and thus any built-in roll over protection isn't going to be sufficient. The motorsports insurance climate is such that we really need to reduce any perceived risk in our sport if we hope to keep it affordable.

Again, let me emphasize that all this is speculation at this point. It's impossible to predict what will come down the pipe from the ASN National Solo Committee with respect to Solo 1 safety regulations, so we'll just have to sit back and hope that nothing drastic emerges.

Cheers,
Dave

[J.C.]

I do see rollbars as necessary for open top cars but I don't see why a car that starts out in a very low class that moved up 4 categories would now need a rollbar. There are many cars that can move up 4 classes that would still be slower then a stock Z06. However from what I am understanding the Z06 would not need a rollbar but the slower car would? There is also nothing to say that the lower level car would not withstand a roll just aswell or better then a Z06.

IMO if you require any hardtops to need a rollbar then all of them should have to have a rollbar, wich would be bad for the sport :(

P.S. Not picking on you corvette guys just giving an example.

[DECH_92]

I thought we used the same rules as CASC for roll protection?
You always refured to there rule book before when people ask about roll protection.
Does CASC not also follow ASN?
It would not be far to have different rules ,then a guy wants to move up to regional racing and then finds out he has to redo his roll cage again.

[Dave]

Actually JC, you're mistaken about the Z06 versus an older car in a rollover situation. The Z06 is extraordinarily rigid in its construction and it has been crash tested, including rollover scenarios, at speeds that the Z06 is capable of reaching. On the other hand, a 1984 Dodge Omni like I drove back in high school has the structural rigidity of a wet noodle and even in stock form (and thus at stock speeds) a rollover in one could be a very nasty experience.

In general, sports cars like the Z06 are engineered with a lot more rigidity and rollover protection built into the chassis, a- and b-pillars, seats, and so on, because the engineers who designed them understood from the get-go that these cars would see high speed use including the strong possibility of being taken to the track by their owners. Grocery getting cars like my Honda Civic, on the other hand, were never envisioned as track machines and were kept lightweight in their construction in order to improve fuel efficiency as opposed to rollover strength.

The fact of the matter is, older cars are not as rigid and thus not as strong/safe in a rollover compared to modern machines, especially the Z06 which is pretty much the pinnacle of OE high speed safety. So regardless of what class a car starts in, if it moves up 4 or more classes from Stock, it it very likely exceeding the built-in rollover/impact strength that it came with from the factory. In other words, its not a matter of how fast the car is from the factory, its a matter of how far you've exceeded the original design limitations of the car.

Currently the Solo 1 rulebook uses CASC/ASN specs for rollcages and roll bars. This won't change. But what might change is at what level of modification a roll bar is required in Solo 1, the specs for the bar will not change unless CASC/ASN makes a change to their specs (in which case we'd follow suit).

[roooo]

Not necessarily relevant for Ontario, but I think SCCA Solo 1 requires a rollbar at least for every car, open or not.

[Dave]

Rowan, you are correct. All Solo 1 cars in the SCCA require a full rollcage (not just a roll bar), full Nomex (or similar) fire retardant gear, fire supression system, etc. They basically have the same safety standards for Solo 1 as for road race, which would kill Solo 1 in Ontario. Hopefully we can avoid this ever happening up here, since it did effectively kill Solo 1 in the States.

[roooo]

Yeah those SCCA rules suck for Solo1 ! If you're going to have to go that far, might as well go club or regional racing. And I guess that's what most people down there have done. Or maybe they decide to stick to Autocross and lapping days instead.

[msix]

sheesh that sucks,

I was ready to get into SOLO I, try it out at the SOLO I School at Mosport in a couple of weeks, but I am not going to install a Rollover protection if the rules require it for next year.

I am driving in ASP in SOLO II (Base group A1) just because a Engine swap, and a few neseccary modifications to make my BMW handle and stop a little better, but i still have A/C and other items, like rear bench to make it a Family car and will not want to remove it (why??...just ask my wife).

So, the big question for me is now, is it going to be worthwhile for me to get into SOLO I for this year, and forget about continuing next year?

hmmm....:confused:

Klaus
BMW E30 M50

[Dave]

Klaus, it's entirely possible the Solo 1 rollover protection rules will not change for 2004, other than the possibility that Starting Class +4 cars (roughly equivalent to Street Prepared prep level under our previous system) will be required to install a roll bar.

If you'd like some help sorting this out, please feel free to send me (dpratte4@cogeco.ca) a list of all the mods you've got on your car and I'll classify it (including the engine swap...I'll need a stock horsepower rating for the engine you swapped in). If your car is up 4 or more classes from its Starting Class, it's possible you'd be required to put a roll bar in it next year, but this is just speculation at this point.

Solo 1 is a lot of fun. My advice would be just come out, give it a try this year and see if it's for you, and then make some decisions next year about the roll bar should one in fact be required.

And guys, PLEASE DO NOT get the idea that Solo 1 in Ontario will end up like the SCCA. This is highly unlikely, since we all know what the consequences of this would be and CASC/ASN doesn't want to kill Solo 1 in Canada anymore than we do. Like I said earlier in this thread, if you run your car in Starting Class or no more than 3 steps up from it, it's HIGHLY unlikely you'll ever be required to install a roll bar.

Cheers,
Dave

[J.C.]

Dave I was just using the Z06 as an example. There are other cars that are classed almost as high as the Z06 performance wise that can be used for this comparison that will not fair as well in a crash. Also the speeds attained will vary from track to track. A lower level car will manage faster speeds on Mosport big track then a Z06 would manage on DDT or another tight course.

[Dave]

JC, you're certainly correct to point out that there are many variables at work here, but all we can do is set safety standards based on averages and in general (or on average) older cars do not have nearly as much structural rigidity as newer cars. Heck, the new Civic is something like 40% stiffer than the previous generation, which would explain why cars have gotten so much heavier over the years (addition of side impact beams, stronger pillars and chassis construction, etc).

That being said, there are certainly some fast cars that probably aren't all that stiff/strong (older Mustangs come to mind) and some slow cars (older Volvos come to mind) that are probably strong even by today's standards. But as rulesmakers all we can do is set standards that we think will help keep the majority of drivers safe and in our estimation most cars are starting to exceed speeds that any built-in crash/rollover protection was designed to deal with by the time they've moved up 4-5 classes from stock. Obviously there's an element of guesswork in this, but we'd prefer to err on the side of caution.

Anyway, there's no guarantee we'll even implement a roll bar requirement at the Starting Class +4 level for 2004, so all this discussion is a bit early. But I do appreciate your concerns and feedback. Ultimately, decisions on safety are going to be dictated to us by the CASC Safety Committee, perhaps the new National Solo Committee, and the Solo 1 Director. I'm just the guy that writes things up and deals with classification and car prep rules :)

Cheers,
Dave

[AirCooln]

Whoops, did I ever open a can of worms with that question.

Thanks for the heads up. Im just going to hang on untill next year then when the new rules come out. I was trying to figure out if I should be trying to find another Mini for track use (and eventually make it fast), keeping my existing machine 'perment' mod free, or buy this very nice forced induction A-series I have been drolling over and just bolt it in - mmmm, 1 hp per pound of car.

[craig]

Klaus, don't worry about, just come out an run (easy for me to say - I've only made it to two Solo1's in my life :p ).

Stuff in the future is, well, stuff in the future. Nobody knows what's going to happen. For example:

- I've been reading about a possible rollover protection requirement for SP cars "next year" for, I think, five years now. The only thing that has changed is the reverse - this year, the Solo2 rules actively discourage rollover protection in non-SP cars.

- I remember back in 1989, I was promoting a track event at Mont-Tremblant, and we were telling people, "This may be the last chance you ever get to drive this historic track before it becomes condos." Well, here it is almost 15 years later, the track's been re-paved and upgraded to FIA standards! (and yes, a resident's movement started up last year to have the track shut down - this may your last chance ... :rolleyes: ).

Anywho, just come out. I think Solo1 is much safer than a BMWCCA-type event, for example, and I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself.