i am so disappointed in myself...

[andrew1984]

i should have known better.

i didnt take the time to PROPERLY educate myself on suspension geometery/theories etc. , and I slapped on springs that have been crippling me since day one.

If I didnt have the desire to learn more about suspension dynamics, I wouldnt have found out that my roll center is BELOW GROUND. :o


Hell, a month ago - I didnt even know why my car drove bumpy and why my tires would feel greasy. ( i had to run over 65 PSI just to compensate) And now I know, im riding on bumpstops!

Little things like these remove all the benefits from modding a stock vehicle.

Just a tip to all of you new comers, before you go out and make modifications - and this is before you even check to see how many points/pips it adds, do your research! It is disgustingly crucial.

Andrew *dare to be different*

[finboy]

hey man... don't be like that

i still luv you

dave t


"its not how you stand by your car... its how you race it... "

- Ja Rule

[J.C.]

How does the saying go?


Patience grasshopper. I guess they should have said beetle then maybe you would have some :p

[ice/solo racer]

Your too hard on yourself Andrew!

I raised the ride height on my car this year to because I was hitting the stops over bumps in the turns last year,made a big improvement over last year.
I'd consider doing what ever it takes to gain wheel travel,short body struts are important along with upper strut mounts/camber plates with increased wheel travel as well.
I corrected the roll center issues on my car with custom built blocks between the strut bottom and lower control arm,my roll centers are now very close to stock-has zero bump steer problems etc.

[Martini Focus]

Would there be a book or a website that has some of this information? I have the desire to learn what I can and since I'm getting new rear springs made to raise the car back up I would like to confirm that what I'm being told is actually correct.:rolleyes:

[andrew1984]

tom, i wish i had the resources to make my own parts.

hell, just a lift would be awesome!

in stock form, my a-arms arent parrallel, but slighty below parrallel.
i know, this is weird. apparently mark 4 vw's have a greater angle in their struts, and *the way i understand it*... this allows more room for "error".

the car is going back up -or- i have to get some custom pieces made.


tom, will you be at PITTL tomorrow?

[andrew1984]

Originally posted by Martini Focus
Would there be a book or a website that has some of this information? I have the desire to learn what I can and since I'm getting new rear springs made to raise the car back up I would like to confirm that what I'm being told is actually correct.:rolleyes:

there are two books that i know of, still needing to go out and buy.
i cant remember the names atm.

do you want the basics first? (recommended) i know of a good one.

[MitS]

Andrew, have you looked into the "drop knuckles" H2sport is supposed to be developing? They are supposed to correct the suspension geometry in lowered VW's.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=876853
[URL]http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=845447[URL]

Suspension geometry is the reason I chose "sport" over "race" springs. I gave up stiffness for less lowering. Unless you go with some 400-500lb springs like in the Bilstein coilovers you will run into problems with the A4 chassis. Lowering is beneficial to our boats but it does not come without compromise. This is why Dick Shine's street kit has minimal lowering.

[Robv]

I just received 'Tune to Win' by Carroll Smith.
Haven't had a chance to read it, but it looks pretty interesting.

Rob.

Originally posted by Martini Focus
Would there be a book or a website that has some of this information? I have the desire to learn what I can and since I'm getting new rear springs made to raise the car back up I would like to confirm that what I'm being told is actually correct.:rolleyes:

[ice/solo racer]

The best how to handling book that I have is by Don Alexander called techniques for the 90's.He just released a new book a while back,I havent had a chance to find and buy it yet but I'm sure it will also be very usefull.
Andrew I won't be around untill the double header weekend.

[andrew1984]

yes, tune to win - i heard that this is a very good starter book!

[Marsh]

Originally posted by andrew1984
yes, tune to win - i heard that this is a very good starter book!

Probably the best starter book. It would contain enough information that you could actually estimate your roll center location.

Andrew I found the exact same thing last year. I played around with shock settings for a while then realized my roll centers were near ground level and raised the car.

It's not actually the roll centers being below ground that's the problem, in fact many people I know believe in below ground roll centers (Colin Chapman did on some of his cars), I believe it's a result of NEAR ground level roll centers. The roll center is found by drawing a line from the instantaneous center to the contact patch (which is on the ground). If the instantaneous center is also on the ground this means the roll center can't be determined. So when your roll center is near the ground what happens is that the roll center moves a huge distance with just a tiny bit of suspension travel (laterall roll center migration, is what I call it). Thus the suspension charactersitics are inconsistent through out the range of suspension travel causing the car to be bouncy and unpredicatable.

[ice/solo racer]

Yeah what he said!:D