Civic EG Suspension questions...

[StewPiddass]

Ok I got some cash and need to do some suspension upgrades. I have thought of a few things.

1- Get Koni Yellows to go with my H&R Race springs (2.25 drop) they've been in the car 5 or 6 years though.

2- Put Koni Yellows in along with my H&R Sport springs (1.8 drop) these spent 1 year in my 1.6 EL and I hear that 6th gen springs will fit a 5th gen but it'll sit a little higher. Anyone know what the little collar that you can take out gives you?

3- Tein Basic Dampers, pitch everything I have and get these, I think they're around $1100

4- Tein SS Dampers, is the damping adjustability worth another $300-400? otherwise the spring rates and drop are the same as Basic.


Keep in mind, this is my solo car but it's also a daily driver, not that I'm adverse to a rough ride (as evidenced by my current springs on stock shocks). Plus autocross isn't everything, there's still a little bit of car show / cruising left in me (which is why I'm thinking coilovers).


Any other suggestions? Anybody got connections for this stuff, Tein's might be a little out of my budget?

[Dave]

I'd stick with linear rate race springs over progressive (sport) springs, but then I'm not concerned with street comfort. Progressive springs will definitely be more street-friendly, but you'll lose some performance at autocross events.

If you're going to get Teins, I'd go with the SS shock so that you've got valve stiffness adjustability. This is a really useful feature in terms of tuning the car's handling for autocross use and you can soften them up for street use too. Another option would be to look around for a used set of Tein HA's, which are a full coilover set-up and have more aggressive shock valving than the SS or Basic damper. As a matter of fact, I think Andy Chmura still has his HA's for sale, though you'd need to buy a set of ITR rear lower control arms to use this set on your EG. Here's a link to Andy's ad on the HADA messageboard...

http://www.hadamotorsport.com/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=4068&forum_id=19&Topic_Title=Tax+Man+after+my+arse%2D%2Dso+for+sale%2D%2D&forum_title=Buy%2FSell%2FTrade&M=False&S=True

If you want to buy new, for Koni you can't beat the prices at Northern Motorsports (Marcor) in Hamilton. For Tein, KHF or Kensai Racing (www.kensairacing.com) are the places to go. And if you ever find yourself in possession of a HADA membership, you will get a sizeable discount on Tein and all the other goodies sold at KHF and Kensai :)

Cheers,
Dave

[StewPiddass]

Hook me up Dave, I've been wanting to get into all those extra pages on the HADA site forever...

Thanx for your help, I saw that you were on and was hoping you'd reply.

[Dave]

drop me an e-mail at dpratte4@cogeco.ca and I'll forward you a membership application form, or you can download it in the 'All About HADA' section of our site and mail it in with a cheque and you'll be golden!

It'll be great to have you join the club!

Cheers,
Dave

[StewPiddass]

OK I got a line on this:

"5 lug conversion is as follows
front knuckle with caliper/rotor, brake lines and upper LCA
rear complete trailing arm with e cables, stainless steel lines
M/C is a 15/16" JDM ITR for bolt on a USDM EG
5 white CTR wheels (new 195-50-15 Toyo T1-S tires), set of 4 steelies with new Pirelli winter tires"

Brakes are spoon slotted rotors, and I think he's got the ITR swaybars too.

I've always wanted rear discs... and 5 lug...and swaybars...plus the CTR brakes have gotta make a big difference.

The guys asking about $2100, ripoff? good price? What should I offer.

Then maybe I could buy Andy's Teins (you know, when I win the lottery!)

[Dave]

Although I have a 5-lug ITR conversion on my car, the far cheaper way to go for the same result is to do what Hanif and Moose have done on their EG hatchback...buy Prelude or ITR calipers, have a set of ITR or Prelude rotors re-drilled for a 4x100 bolt pattern. Then you can use any number of 4x100 rims on the car, which are far more common and generally cheaper than 5x114.3 like the ITR set-up I'm running. If you have rear drums on your car, then you'll also need to pick up a rear disc conversion from a Si or GSR (which is a lot cheaper than a rear ITR conversion). Dollar for dollar, this is the smarter way to go.

Actually, I think Nabs from HADA has a rear GSR brake conversion for sale. Check out the 'buy/sell' section of the HADA messageboard for more info on that.

If you want to run a rear ITR swaybar, you'll need a reinforcement kit for the subframe where the bar mounts, otherwise the bar WILL rip out and do some damage. Beaks makes a nice reinforcement kit for around $100. ITR swaybars can be had new or used for around $100 too.

Don't bother with slotted or cross-drilled rotors on a lightweight Honda like an EG. Blanks work just fine and they are less likely to crack or fatigue prematurely.

All that said, the $2100 price for all the stuff you're getting with that 5-lug conversion is an excellent price, given the m/c, wheels/tires, swaybar, etc. The other nice thing is you'll be getting lower mileage bushings on all the control arms and trailing arms. So it's not a bad deal at all, but you could achieve the same performance for a lot less money using "HADA big brake" trick like Moose and Hanif.

All you need to run Andy's Teins on your car right now are rear ITR lower control arms. That's it, that's all! LCA's can be bought for around $100. Bigger brakes are good, but Teins will make a MUCH bigger difference in terms of the overall performance of your car IMO. A good set of front race brake pads and a rear disc conversion is all your really need for Solo 1/2 duty. If you're going to do a lot of lapping or regional racing, then the big brake upgrade is the way to go methinks :)

Cheers,
Dave

[haniforama]

If you're ok spending $2100, here's how i would do it:

$400 for a rear disc conversion
$200 for ITR calipers and brackets
$150 for ITR HAWK HP+ pads
$120 for a pair of Prelude 4 X 114.3 rotor Brembo blanks
$70 for machining brackets and rotors
$1400 for Andy's Teins...

That adds up to:

$2340...

Hmmm - a bit over but you'd have the superb Tein springs and shocks (full coilover with 16-way damping adjustment), 11.1" brakes with NEW pads and rotors, and a rear-disc conversion.

The only thing i'd add to that list would be a 94-97 non-ABS Integra Master Cylinder to improve pedal feel and brake performance (which can be had for $50-75 from a wrecker plus install and fluid).

Hanif

[Dave]

I bow to Master Hanif :cool:

[haniforama]

holy crap...

i jus noticed that the 5-bolt comes with TWO sets of wheels and tires and that the summer rubbre is new.

That is a smoking deal!

Is that from Adrian K ?

[StewPiddass]

I think that's the guy, white EG... I'd love to buy the whole car... but the wife would kill me. I couldn't care less about being in B-Mod with a car like that!!!

[haniforama]

Yup - that's him.

I've had good dealings with him as have other HADA members.

In fact, he's looking for a motor for me now :D

[StewPiddass]

Ok, so I'm getting Koni Yellows (TorontoCivics has a group buy on for $800 cash, taxes in if anyone's interested). I'll be putting them in this winter, I currently have 6 year old H&R Race Springs in the car. I don't think they are broken but I wonder if I should get new ones while I'm doing the suspension.

Which springs would you guys recommend for auto-x? I can get H&R race or sport cheap (real cheap) I'm not sure sport is suited for auto-x but is race too stiff / low, I don't know a lot about spring rates and such? I like the height of my car now (still kinda a ***** at heart) but performance is more important for me now. Please give me your opinions.

Thanx


http://msg.toprotege.com/iB_html/uploads/post-18-28221-123_2339.JPG

[Dave]

I'd go with the race springs, since they're linear rate and thus much better suited to autocross (linear means they're at their maximum stiffness or spring rate throughout their compression, while progressive springs get...wait for it...progressively stiffer as they're compressed). Progressive or "sports" springs are nicer on the street because they have more compliance over bumps due to their effectively lower spring rates during the early or initial part of their compression, while linear rate springs or race springs are harsher on the street because they're at maximum stiffness throughout. But in terms of responsiveness when racing you can't beat linear rate springs. The other nice thing about linear rate springs is that you can order them in any number of stiffnesses. I'd recommend something like 6k front and 10k rear as a reasonable compromise between streetability and performance. If you're willing to sacrifice comfort for better handling then start bumping up those spring rates! I personally run 10k front and 14k rear (BTW, to convert from kg/mm to lbs/in multiple by 55.8...in other words a 10k spring is equivalent to 558 lbs).

Are you going to get some coilover collars so that you've got full ride height adjustability?

[StewPiddass]

Are those collars a good idea Dave? I thought they were for show only, didn't think they were good for performance driving / racing. I'm not super-worried about adjustable ride height, I've been fine at this height for the last few years, I'll have a little bit of an option with the little collars on the Konis right? Can I order H&R race in different rates or is there only one choice. What do I buy if I wanna pick the spring rates?

[Dave]

heh, the collars are so that you can adjust ride height and more specifically so you can corner weight the car in order to optimally distribute weight for handling. They're really not for show at all.
But if you're not overly concerned with corner weighting or getting your ride height to an exact position, then using the three options built onto the Koni shocks along with ordering your springs to a specific length will allow you to get the car to sit at the height you want (more or less).

I've never used H&R race springs, but I would imagine that you can order them, like Eibach ERS or Tein race springs, in pretty much any length, diameter and spring rate. You'll have you check with your supplier to be sure. If you can't specify the spring rate and length, then I'd suggest going with Eibach ERS or Tein so that you can get exactly what you want.

[ctenche]

Just a small note regarding the H&R Race springs. Unfortunately they only come in one set rate and size. The H&R Race springs for an Integra are rated at 580lb/in front and 450lb/in rear. I'm not sure what they would be for a Civic but I would image they would be relatively similar.

A couple of things to note.

1. Those rates are pretty stiff for the Koni yellows and will exercise the valving to the max.

2. The springs designated for the front are stiffer than the rear which means that the car will still understeer. Ideally you want the rear springs to be stiffer for better rotation. I'd say, swap the front/rear springs but I don't think they're the same length so you might not be able to do that.

3. The H&R Race give a pretty severe drop; something like 2.5" I think. Personally, I think that's too low and I wouldn't be surpirsed if you'd be riding the bumpstops. I guess you could mount them on the highest setting on the Koni's but then I'm not sure what your ride height would be.

If you still want to switch to a linear rate spring (recommended) I'd go with some Eibach ERS springs which you can get in different spring rates and different lengths to suit your needs. Give Pete at Wheel & Tire Zone a call and they can hook you up. If however you decide to stick with your H&R Sport, I'm sure they're still good. They're a quality brand so I wouldn't worry about them sagging or anything.

[StewPiddass]

yeah, the drop on the race springs is 2.25, that's what I have now, It's just that I can get new ones cheap (like less than $300 taxes in) but maybe I'll look into something like the Eibachs so I can choose.

[ice/solo racer]

Stewpiddass,your gonna need to up date the suspension for sure for next year!Cause if tlmc runs the same classing as this year you might have to contend with my crx on a few occasions!:D
I'm getting all of Ron's slicks-under current rules I can run non dot rubber in B-mod with a full cage(which I have)and a fire suit.I can't run them in solo 1 next year as I go right to the top class with non dot tires-not a good thing.
Should be alot of fun,not much weight,decent power and good grip(hopefully).
I'd go coilovers for sure,ride height adjustment and spring rate choices should make it an easy decision IMO.