Autoslalom Course Design Question

[Snizzoop]

This question is mainly directed to those that have run the region series in the past.

How often/how many courses in the season REQUIRE a 2nd to 1st gear downshift?

Also, how often/how many courses utilize a "two lap" design? Do you like doing two laps?

Just asking to see what I can do to change up the TLMC couse designs. Our lot is pretty big, therefore we generally don't need to use a "two lap" course.

[Maddog]

This question is mainly directed to those that have run the region series in the past.

How often/how many courses in the season REQUIRE a 2nd to 1st gear downshift?

Also, how often/how many courses utilize a "two lap" design? Do you like doing two laps?

Just asking to see what I can do to change up the TLMC couse designs. Our lot is pretty big, therefore we generally don't need to use a "two lap" course.The first question has alot to do with what you have under the hood. If you have a 400 lbs-ft V8 like I had, then I'd never downshift to 1st. But you have a 4 banger, I would assume at every tight corner.

[Snizzoop]

The first question has alot to do with what you have under the hood. If you have a 400 lbs-ft V8 like I had, then I'd never downshift to 1st. But you have a 4 banger, I would assume at every tight corner.

Hmm...good point.

[AW11_4AGZE]

make it less for civics and more for MR2's. :p

[Snizzoop]

make it less for civics and more for MR2's. :p

Umm...a course that works for a Civic should work just as well for an MR2. Stop using that as your excuse! HAHAHA! I hope you guys catch me this year.

Are you going to run the regionals?

[AW11_4AGZE]

Umm...a course that works for a Civic should work just as well for an MR2. Stop using that as your excuse! HAHAHA! I hope you guys catch me this year.

Are you going to run the regionals?

Just changing springs.... nothing big.

Regionals.... Probably just the TLMC one (or ones) for now. I may fork over the extra 5er for scoring ;). If we do well, we may show up on some different clubs on off TLMC days.

Your courses were pretty awesome last season, we hope to see some of the same.

[Marsh]

One first gear corner (or two) is pretty common on any parking lot slalom. Barrie is big enough to often avoid this and Picton obviously. But in some cars you still go down to first even in Barrie. (In my 97 Prelude Delaware speedway was the only slalom venue I ever went to where I could do a course entirely in second).

As for two laps. It's a growing phenomenon with smaller venues, but bare in mind that multiple laps makes it difficult (or even impossible) to put multiple cars on course. If you're expecting a big turn out for an event then you have to plan for the time it will take to complete it. Don't think about the length of the course in driving time. Think how often you can launch a car. Every 30 seconds is good. Every 40 is safer, but a little slow. Every 15 is bordering on dangerous for marshaling. With that in mind and cross over points or multiple laps should be setup so that there is plenty of time between multiple cars being on the same geography and plenty of time for workers to put cones back.

[Shane Bawa]

If I had a choice, I would love a course with no 1st gear turns at all... Just use first to start and the rest should be 2nd and 3rd...

BTW: are the TLMC autoslalom 09 dates out yet!!??

[finboy]

how do you do your course designs??

designed before or at setup?

do you have a map of the venue?

[Snizzoop]

Thanks for your input Marsh.

If I had a choice, I would love a course with no 1st gear turns at all... Just use first to start and the rest should be 2nd and 3rd...

BTW: are the TLMC autoslalom 09 dates out yet!!??

I generally try to design courses exactly that way...well...aside from the fact that VERY few hit third gear.

I was asking the question to see how common it is for people to be down shifting to first. I'll probably avoid it again this year.

The '09 TLMC schedule should be finalized by the end of next week at the very latest. Seven of our eight dates are good to go. Just trying to shuffle one or two around so that we have decent spacing between events.

how do you do your course designs??

designed before or at setup?

do you have a map of the venue?

I design the courses prior to set up, and I do have a map of the venue. This way I have course maps photocopied and ready to hand out at registration.

[coneman]

I've been to many events up in Barrie. The courses that your club come up with are the reason I make the trip from Bowmanville. In my opinion don't change anything. The course you've been using seem to be fair to small and large cars alike. I don't know how many times I've been there and FTD was very close between Cobras, modified Civics, Subies and the occasional BMW sedan or Mustang. Other clubs should be shooting for the same types of results.

[max attack]

I'm with Shane,no turns tight enough to require 1st and everyone should be happy regardless of power levels.:)

[AndrewR]

I did not hit 1st gear all last season at any regional in my car.

[soloZ]

I did not hit 1st gear all last season at any regional in my car.

me neither lol but to answer a question. Wide open and fast thats how I want a course and no first gear because with me car first gear is crawling.

[finboy]

unfortunately... there's only a few venues that can generate 2nd gear course designs

my preference would be to just use 1st off the line, the rest all 2nd gear

two of the best venues in my opinion are ST Lac's Picton airport (but the surface eats tires), and MCO's Scotia Bank place (a tad far for most GTAr's)

Bronte was also great while it lasted


MCO has a great lot, and we still use some type of "do it twice" type of section to make the course longer.. after the car is clear, the next car is sent

i think the most we had running on a course at one time was 4.. it might have been an IPC event, where we were successful in rifling a ton of cars with 6 runs all in second gear.

now most we'll run is 3 at a time

one of our MCO members is surprisingly an artsy fartsy type, with hidden tallents, and uses an etch-a-sketch to generate really fun course designs
that are EASY to navigate

but any venue is a good venue... 1st or 2nd gear... whatever

beggers can't be choosers, just try to design the course as fun and as optimal as possible

[Black Shadow]

Just asking to see what I can do to change up the TLMC couse designs. Our lot is pretty big, therefore we generally don't need to use a "two lap" course.

A.G.

I am a big fan of TLMC courses, and I wouldn't outright recommend changing a thing. I never leave 2nd gear (even at the Bramalea Go station) but then again I drive a miata so I'm maybe not the best sample.

Barrie courses 'flow' like no other clubs. I like the minimal use of cones too, more just makes it less clear. For me nothing says 'solo2' quite like seeing George carve from gate to gate with only one smooth steering input for each. Everyting's nice and wide, a choice of lines.

I respect that you want to make it better, and I sure it can be. But I wouldn't look to re-invent the wheel because TLMC seems to have that type of course ingrained in club culture. Courses have been laid out that way for years, and for good reason I say.

Good luck, though. I can't wait to try out what you come up with.

Cheers,

[Tashko]

I avoid using 1st gear after the start. On my car it's fairly short and useless...first gear that is...okay wise guys, move on. :eek:

As with others, I'm happy to dawdle along in 2nd. If I get to 3rd base, er, 3rd gear, I'm a happy camper...

Most of the courses in the Provincials haven't required 1st gear.

If we're doing requests, I'd like to see more use of offset gates or bus-stops on the fast sections of a course:


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hmmm, so much for ASCII art!

[Snizzoop]

Well, it's nice to see that those who have been to the TLMC events enjoy the course layouts. I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

[Shane Bawa]

Wow... good review on the TLMC track... will have to make my way up for sure this year... Get those dates out guys so I can slot them into my summer schedule ;-)

[mikewolf]

In my CSS miata, the only times I remember downshifting into 1st, would be at the HADA courses up in the top corner where they often have a pin turn and in much of the PITL courses this past year in their small lot. I liked the one TLMC course I ran this year, but I do like 'looped' courses that make the runs longer.

[retro_mike]

I was launching in 2nd gear most of last year unless there was a sharp turn right out of the start box and once on course would often short shift into 3rd just to put the power down better. No need for downshifting into 1st here ever! Downshifting into 1st really depends on a combination of gearing and torque.

[Ziploc]

I've only had one course have me downshifting to first. And that was PITL last year when they had the 1 lone cone that you had to do a 180 around.

I tend to avoid first since this car gets driven the entire year and is my only transportation. I try to be nice to my synchronizers. :)

And in case anyone is curious. It's a 1.8 Miata.

[Rampant WS6]

I must be doing something wrong, I have 500+rwhp 4.11 gear and I use first in places on all my layouts. :eek:

I'll have to make some of the large venues this year with the new bigger motor and see if I can stay in 2nd or higher. :D

[Burnsey]

A.G.

I am a big fan of TLMC courses, and I wouldn't outright recommend changing a thing. I never leave 2nd gear (even at the Bramalea Go station) but then again I drive a miata so I'm maybe not the best sample.

Barrie courses 'flow' like no other clubs. I like the minimal use of cones too, more just makes it less clear. For me nothing says 'solo2' quite like seeing George carve from gate to gate with only one smooth steering input for each. Everyting's nice and wide, a choice of lines.

I respect that you want to make it better, and I sure it can be. But I wouldn't look to re-invent the wheel because TLMC seems to have that type of course ingrained in club culture. Courses have been laid out that way for years, and for good reason I say.

Good luck, though. I can't wait to try out what you come up with.

Cheers,

I'll second the above comments. I believe the course at the first event year needed first gear in one spot, but other than that it was 2nd all the way 'round.
Keep up the good work guys.

[Snizzoop]

I'll second the above comments. I believe the course at the first event year needed first gear in one spot, but other than that it was 2nd all the way 'round.
Keep up the good work guys.

Yeah, that course didn't exactly end up as I had originally planned. That turn was tigtened up a little too much.

The rest of the season was great. VERY fast and flowing is my motto.

[-bbTeg]

TLMC has some great courses so I wouldn't deviate too much.

Not a huge fan of 1st gear turns aside from one coming out of the stop box.

In my ITR I got decently into 3rd gear on some weekends last year.

[isopropyl]

Rob would like to be able to get out of 1st. He only got 2ed the one time last year when the course went X the lot and over the hill (jump).
As for me I like your layouts and I just put it in drive or 2ed and go in the z24. No faster though I was to the rug through the one slalom I had no more go.

[Snizzoop]

In my ITR I got decently into 3rd gear on some weekends last year.

Rob would like to be able to get out of 1st. He only got 2ed the one time last year when the course went X the lot and over the hill (jump).
As for me I like your layouts and I just put it in drive or 2ed and go in the z24. No faster though I was to the rug through the one slalom I had no more go.

Okay, so from the two posts above, I have one car hitting third gear, one coming to the limits of second gear, and a truck that doesn't get OUT of first gear?

I think Rob needs to get some shorter gears...OR A CAR!

Thanks to everyone who has replied, and thanks for the props on course designs. I'll make sure that the courses this year are as good, if not better, than last year.

[isopropyl]

He sort of got a car and put the truck motor in it for this year. :D He has Pizza man's old car with a new hart with pistons.
But yeah with the 3 spd auto he only got 1st.

[max attack]

He sort of got a car and put the truck motor in it for this year. :D He has Pizza man's old car with a new hart with pistons.
But yeah with the 3 spd auto he only got 1st.


Excellent,another mod class car.:)

Expect I'll see you guys this weekend at the tlmc ice weekend?.

[yellowhotshoe]

Hmmm, wonder if that was the same 'jump' that ate my 2nd gear last year? :p

No complaints on your courses A!:D

[max attack]

Craig I suspect it had more to do with all that torque and big sticky A6's than the hump.;)

[Pete@Marcor]

Craig I suspect it had more to do with all that torque and big sticky A6's than the hump.;)

Yes, I believe that is called the "fuse" in the drivetrain. Lots of torque and lots of grip kinda showcases the weak "link".

Sorry about your transmission, btw.

[max attack]

Craig I was thinking today that I'd help you out this season,I'm thinking I should buy your tires for the year-a nice set of R6's should be fine right?.;)

[yellowhotshoe]

Tom, i've always said you are one of the most generous guys i know! :rolleyes: The R6's would be fine for the Prosolo's :D Well at least they worked last time...

Oh, and Pete. I upgraded the tranny internals to the G-force stuff. Supposedly good for 600 ft lbs of torque (which i'm well below) - but it does make me think what part is now the weakest link LOL!

[StewPiddass]

- but it does make me think what part is now the weakest link LOL!

at one point it's gotta end up being the nut behind the wheel... LOL