Safety at events... and the discussion of safety issues on this board...

[miataboi]

Specific safety issues should NOT be discussed in an OPEN and PUBLIC forum.

INSURANCE will be IMPOSSIBLE to get...

INSURANCE costs $$$ already... and they could be looking for any excuse to raise it / cancel it. The clubs NEED insurance to run their events.

This is not something to discuss in this environment.
...e-mails, PM's, at driver's meetings (before and after events)... those are more appropriate times....



Posted by Marsh on 08-11-2003 at 01:26 PM
" The rule book requires that every time there is an incident involving injury OR damage that a report be filed. Failing to do so could result in every club in the province loosing their insurance."




Insurance wants certain information in a specific format. SO WE GIVE IT TO THEM on that form.

Look at all of the OTHER information that can get posted on this board about an event / incident... that ISN'T ON THE FORM!

eg.
$$$ damage, why it was hit, if it was moved afterwards, other POTENTIAL / more grusome scenarios if things had been different, questioning the organizers decisions, if some fellow members believe that it was avoidable, fellow club members seeming to disagree with the organization... None of this is good.

Don't give them any more ammo than they already have. That's just plain dumb. (and asking for trouble - don't invite it / help arm them!)


I hereby OFFICIALLY propose that ANY AND ALL safety-related comments / concerns be sent via e-mail to the acting club representative of that particular event... and perhaps copying the solo 2 director.

IF it is a serious concern that is deemed to be in everyone's best interest... it CAN be sent via e-mail to all competitors in a cc: list.

Can we get Robb Smith and Steve Cole and all other "officials" to chime in here and perhaps see if this is a possibility? It could be a "sticky" post and in the FAQ's of this board... I feel that it is in the best interest of both this community AND the sport. (I will e-mail them personally to direct them to this posting as well)

Please provide your comments below ABOUT THIS ISSUE and PROPOSAL ONLY below.

IF there is enough interest / support (or at least non-objection) I'd like to have it made into an official policy... and give moderators the ability to edit posts for SAFETY CONTENT ONLY. (the deleted content will then be sent to the poster and the director / relevant event personnel to bring awareness to the issue)


Let's keep the sport healthy. Don't do anything to jeapordize it.

Thoughts?

[J.C.]

Excuse my ignorance but what does the insurance actually cover? I hear we need it but then we need to sign a waiver and it won't cover the vehicles, so what does it cover? Property?

[ScotcH]

I certainly would not want to jeopardize the sport. However, is it realistic to assume that the insurance companies will use quotes and information from the forums to backup their premium raises? This seems rather like posting about speeding, then getting a speeding ticket on those grounds.

Personally, I agree that there are better methods than the forum to discuss issues, but I have a hard time believing that anything posted here will affect insurance rates ... maybe I'm naive?

[ShaneG]

I don't believe that the issue is our personal insurance, but rather the event insurance...if we loose event insurance we don't play. and if those rates go up due to a precieved higher risk we will all pay more to do these events.

I think!:(

[finboy]

i feel this board should be used for nothing but good stuff

trash talk, helping each other out, everything good for the health and growth of solo motorsports.

insurance companies are dropping auto coverage.. its happening.
its a fact, and it isn't cheap.

i've read that in some cases, the police are calling your insurance company of your NON-stock modifications

people pull their licence plates, because of unwanted attention at events.

some even want their name altered with the results that are posted, for the same reasons.

yes we are involved in motorsports, yes poo happens..

but why some feel its their god given right to post what they want
not thinking of how it might reflect on the whole community can hurt our weekend past time.

we're all adults, we know who the organizers are..

is it so hard to pick up the phone or walk up to the people and discuss things??

I would say yes.. keep the dirty laundry off our boards

any saftey issues, please use the phone, buy a coffee and discuss it before or after an event, use private messages, or
email.


there are only a few who sell our type of coverage...

if we can't get insurance we're screw'd..


dave t

[Logan]

It's my understanding that event insurance is liability insurance.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Logan
It's my understanding that event insurance is liability insurance.


that is true, but your personal auto insurance would LOVE to hear that you compete (NOT RACE) your car on weekends.

some insurance companies are just looking for an easy excuse to dump your coverage.

[Suzie]

Would it work to have a more private area of the board which only established, known people can see?

Suzie

[Martini Focus]

Originally posted by finboy
that is true, but your personal auto insurance would LOVE to hear that you compete (NOT RACE) your car on weekends.

some insurance companies are just looking for an easy excuse to dump your coverage.

No kidding. I've had that talk with my broker and even with my extreme level of coverage at $500+ per month well lets just say "I've been warned". Gee I'm so glad I drive an inconspicuous car that just blends in to the crowd.

[ice/solo racer]

Finboy-you believe that trash talk is good for the sport?your kidding right?

That explains alot,know I see why most of your posts piss people off.

[MastaDeeMon]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
Finboy-you believe that trash talk is good for the sport?your kidding right?

That explains alot,know I see why most of your posts piss people off.

Well if you know Dave at all, you know he's kidding. Yes his tendency is to make people mad, but if you go in knowing that, you realize that he's just tired of people complaining. I've given and gotten tons of crap to/from Dave and I believe it stems from his passion to compete in a good series that he so willingly volunteers his time to so often, for our benefit. Man, do we all have to lighten up, including me. If this infighting keeps up, we're gonna end up like C.A.R.T., a bunch of talented guys in jeaporday of having nowhere to race.

Chill

D.:D

[finboy]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
Finboy-you believe that trash talk is good for the sport?your kidding right?

That explains alot,know I see why most of your posts piss people off.

yes i believe in trash talk..

you sexy honeybunnystudmuffin you

of course i am kidding...


go pull one off, try it at least once a day... you'll be amazed what it does for the colour of your hair.

someone give this guy a chill pill



Dave t

[J.C.]

Originally posted by finboy
yes i believe in trash talk..

you sexy honeybunnystudmuffin you

of course i am kidding...


go pull one off, try it at least once a day... you'll be amazed what it does for the colour of your hair.

someone give this guy a chill pill


Dave t

LOL Dave we have seen what it does to your hair :D

[ice/solo racer]

I can trash talk with the best of 'em-I just think its better if you can see the other persons face to judge reactions,dodge punches etc.etc.;)

[finboy]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
I can trash talk with the best of 'em-I just think its better if you can see the other persons face to judge reactions,dodge punches etc.etc.;)

i look like this

:p

the eyes are even correct



Dave t

[DareBee]

I will have to agree with the"boys" (Miata & Fin)

I find it hard to imagine that posting ANY concerns here in regards to a specific "incident" at an event could negatively effect our motorsport; however it is possible.

I believe that general banter about gate positions, course layouts or the "marshal that is not watching what they are doing" scenarios are all great and relevant to this forum.
WE notice these comments and try to "fix" areas of our oversight to improve every event.

I have not checked the other guys info but my contact info is included for me. again- imsi@on.aibn.com
I will forward, phone,set up meetings or whatever is required to to get the managers to field any delicate issues people may have with PITTL to get them resolved. I know either of the "boys" would do the same.

Again...I feel that SPECIFIC (and delicate) INCIDENTS ONLY should not be posted. They should be handled/discussed directly by the organizing group and the sanctioning body.

Derek Beehler

[tanney]

I hereby OFFICIALLY propose that ANY AND ALL safety-related comments / concerns be sent via e-mail to the acting club representative of that particular event... and perhaps copying the solo 2 director.

If there are safety concerns noted during the course walk through, don't wait until Monday to bitch and complain on this forum. That does no good except make you come off as a whiner. BRING IT UP BEFORE OR AT THE DRIVERS MEETING WITH THE ORGANIZER.

If the organizer doesn't change things or address the specific issues you have, e-mail or call the Solo 2 Director (if it's a regional event), club organizer, and club president or compitition director bringing up your concerns and how they were or weren't dealt with appropriately.

Do you remember the insurance guy who was on the forum a couple of months ago? He was probably so pissed off that he no doubt complained to the insurance powers that be and we probably are being monitored.

Complaining publicly WITHOUT GIVING ANY USABLE SUGGESTIONS is going to hurt our sport. If your going to complain, back it up, don't just complain.

[ctenche]

Funny...though most everyone who actually posted is against talking publicly, the votes show 13 to 12 in favour of open discussion. Looks pretty split so far.

[tanney]

Funny...though most everyone who actually posted is against talking publicly, the votes show 13 to 12 in favour of open discussion. Looks pretty split so far.

I bet......the one's not in favour are organizers and the one's in favour are competitors who show up, run then go home.

Things take on a different perspective when your involved, that's for sure. (by involved I mean show up early, set up the course and the venue, help out all day and stick around to help clean up at the end of the day, go to meetings and plan events, good or bad)

When you dedicate a good chunk of your life to making things happen (for everyone else), it gets a little annoying to see all the dirty laundry publically aired instead of in the appropriate fashion.

Hey but what do I know, I just show up and run then go home!

[Keith-02Accord]

Originally posted by tanney
Hey but what do I know, I just show up and run then go home!

Lazy ass!!! :p ;)

[ShaneG]

one other issue that has been bothering me is the overall negativity - unless it is only my preception!

We received some congratulations after the HADA event and since then the comments have been overall negative...I am new to this and those that have been around can comment further.

The incident notwithstanding, the weekend ,as Tom said, was great we got great weather, with rain falling everywhere but on the track, and for our $25 (series registered) we got 4 and 7 runs in the 2 events, plus lunch. - 1 open course 1 tight one, running in opposite directions and hey we even had a different winner in BSS (:p Tom:D ) how unique is that!

This is OT to the start of the thread but intentionally so. At the track (or lot) we all get along well and that is what got me hooked as much as the fun on course. IMO we need to keep that family / community feel on the board as well. not that we can't trash talk or complain about legitimate stuff but lets use proper channels

Pat, John, Steve, Barry, Ryan, Wes, Wendy, (hope I have not missed anyone) THANK YOU I had a great weekend! :cool:

Think I'll spam this to all the forums ;)

[Marsh]

Originally posted by tanney
I bet......the one's not in favour are organizers and the one's in favour are competitors who show up, run then go home.

Things take on a different perspective when your involved, that's for sure. (by involved I mean show up early, set up the course and the venue, help out all day and stick around to help clean up at the end of the day, go to meetings and plan events, good or bad)

When you dedicate a good chunk of your life to making things happen (for everyone else), it gets a little annoying to see all the dirty laundry publically aired instead of in the appropriate fashion.

Hey but what do I know, I just show up and run then go home!

Actually I am a very active organizer and I think this should be discussed openly. The point is to avoid it happening again in the future. How can that happen if we don't bring it out in the open? Sure a few people will discuss it behind closed doors, but that won't help the new people, or people from clubs that aren't as involved with regionals etc. If there is something being discussed that makes you look bad, then be ashamed, then get over it and make the changes to make sure it doesn't happen again, and pass what you learned on to everyone else.

[tanney]

I agree with you to a certain extent, Marshall, but a lot of the complaints and concerns aired aren't accompanied by a suggestion on how to make it better.

I think that clubs should invest millions of dollars to erect temporary soft walls at all venues!

[J.C.]

This may sound silly but why don't we have a password protected section for posting out concerns?

[finboy]

Originally posted by Marsh
Actually I am a very active organizer and I think this should be discussed openly. The point is to avoid it happening again in the future. How can that happen if we don't bring it out in the open? Sure a few people will discuss it behind closed doors, but that won't help the new people, or people from clubs that aren't as involved with regionals etc. If there is something being discussed that makes you look bad, then be ashamed, then get over it and make the changes to make sure it doesn't happen again, and pass what you learned on to everyone else.

what colour is the sky in your world Marsh??

you are absolutely correct, lets create a seperate forum for problems, issues that need to be addressed, complaints
and any other issues that can make this sport look bad

all with the intent to make the sport better

many of the incidents that have occured is because the driver has pushed way too hard, and didn't know when to shut it down.

i am all for open discussion.. just in the right forum.





NOT on a public board

Dave t

[Logan]

Dave,
What forum would you suggest that we can all participate in?

[Dave]

I'm all for open and honest discussions, but I do think that posting opinion or details about an incident that has the potential to involve insurance companies is unfair to all parties involved since it could damage their claim, lead to higher insurance rates, detrimentally impact on our ability to secure insurance for events, etc.

I think this forum is a great place to discuss things like course layout and design or to air other grievances regarding event organization if the comments are constructive and well thought-out, but discussing someone elses accident that may result in multiple insurance claims is very very unwise IMO.

I also agree with Shane's comment that the discussions here have a tendency to get overly negative and confrontational at times. This is one of the things I like least about online messageboards, since I know we'd treat each other with a lot more respect if we were discussing these things face to face.

[rainman]

I don't participate in Solo 2 but I do help whenever I can so, speaking as an outsider:
Why not conduct monthly meetings where all organizers/particpants are invited to attend to discuss such topics? If this isn't already being done, then maybe it's time to do so. Hopefully people will become more involved with the sport's organization and contribute their unique perspectives in an effort to improve all facets of these events.

As it stands right now, a lot of people are complaining about various things, but not really contributing in a way to make Solo 2 a better sport. There really seems to be a core group of individuals that bust their asses to make these events work (Wes and Marshal to name a couple), but Solo 2 needs more individuals to commit their time to the cause. Have regular meets really could enable better post event debriefings, rather than airing grievances on the messageboard.

[slick]

I must agree that these issues should be discussed privately, not in a public forum. I know the issues re; insurance are very valid and real, and we must err on the safe side even if we don't ALL agree. Can we really afford to risk losing our insurance (or even having premiums raised again)?

Although this forum is largely comprised of competitors, it is not a requirement. Anyone can sign up on this board. So therefore, it is very public indeed.

All those who actively spend a large amount of time organizing events, planning and attending meetings, and volunteering their time are the ones who are very passionate about this stuff. Let's not knock them as having a closed-minded attitude.
Some of these guys and gals have been volunteering for years and years.
They are the reason we can play in this sport.

Others that look in from the outside really don't see the whole picture (no disrespect, just reality).


As for a passworded-section, this is a little unnecessary and would be impossible to manage anyway. What would determine who gets access to this area? This would just start another bitchin' session IMHO. And is really a bad solution for a clear problem: "Discuss safety issues in private with organizers and Solo2 officials".


Also, as a funny FYIW. My ex-wife used to monitor this board to see if Solo2 was really as safe as I told her it was. She would've had some ammo this time.
Luckily, I don't have that problem anymore......;)

[miataboi]

...having configurted this same piece of software before myself... I KNOW that it's easy to create a seperate forum for ONLY those who are registered....

BUT... who moderates / approves those who are registered???

It's a technicality really... that solves little / nothing.

THAT'S why I'd like discussion of SPECIFIC SAFETY-RELATED issues / incidents to be dealt with OFFLINE.



"course layout and design or to air other grievances regarding event organization if the comments are constructive and well thought-out"
...SHOULD still be discussed here.

Just my opinion...

[miataboi]

"My ex-wife used to monitor this board to see if Solo2 was really as safe as I told her it was. She would've had some ammo this time.
Luckily, I don't have that problem anymore...... ;)"

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!
:D

[alexb]

Saftey issues should always be disscussed on this forum.Relating the issue you wish to discuss and including a specific incident should be taboo!

[DareBee]

Originally posted by ShaneG
one other issue that has been bothering me is the overall negativity - unless it is only my preception!

;)

Shane (and everyone) the majority of people in this world are passive aggressive and wont openly air their fellings of violation untill the back is turned or undr the mask of this forum.
People feel strongly enough about being wronged (perceptively) that the will post here. The have a great time and they smile come back again but dont take the time to post.

I have seen a lot of praise posted on this forum although the thread often doesnt carry as far as threads like this one.

Alexb posted
Saftey issues should always be disscussed on this forum.Relating the issue you wish to discuss and including a specific incident should be taboo!

Basically a rewording of the thoughts I tried to express in my last post

See ya for fun in the sun on Sunday guys
emphasis on the word sun!

[Dave]

the majority of people in this world are passive aggressive and wont openly air their fellings of violation untill the back is turned or undr the mask of this forum

DarBee, are you a psychologist? If you are, MAN could you have a field day analyzing this passive aggressive bunch of uber competitive racer wannabes! :D

[miataboi]

Originally posted by Dave
DarBee, are you a psychologist? If you are, MAN could you have a field day analyzing this passive aggressive bunch of uber competitive racer wannabes! :D

Off topic: That'd be easy...


The men all have small penis'... and the women have penis envy!

Freudian? YES... true? you betcha! (myself not included of course.)

Back to the discussion of specific safety discussions on this board...

[Suzie]

Originally posted by miataboi
.. and the women have penis envy!


Suuuuuuuure. Let's go with that.


Not.

Suzie

[Nissan Racer]

I think thetre are some GUYS here with penis envy!

[DareBee]

Dave

As they say it takes one to know one (this is directed at myself).
I am passive aggresive in nature.
Learned about this crap in many management seminars. I,m still a shitty manager but I did learn some big words.

Interesting story about the penis (or lack thereof)
Did you guys here about that women in London (Ont) who stabbed her husband to death after suffering long term abuse from him. After killed him she finds out he was she and always managed to trick her with a prosthetic dick!
Hard to believe but true.