noise issues for Bracebridge!

[ice/solo racer]

Simply put there aren't any!!,so Ron and company with the midget/replicar's etc are more than welcome.The only nearby residence is the kart track owner's house.
Barry was asking for directions,if he brings the DB I for one as the organizer will not let anyone kick someone out of my event as long as the noise is reasonable.MY car will be singing its familiar song,although it will now have a resonater:rolleyes:

[Marsh]

Umm, there is still a regional noise limit...:rolleyes:

[Ron]

Hey Tom, thanks for the invite.

Still licking my wounds after getting the boot at the last regional. :) I can't remember the last time I was hassled so much, I think it was in grade 3. I guess I have spent too much time around Samson pipes on my Softail and too many years as a front of house engineer for big time rock shows to remember what loud is. We bought the largest car muffler we could find for the dwarf. I do not intend to be on the receiving end of anyones boot again.

see you in Bracebridge,
Ron

[ScotcH]

This brings up an interresting point. Are Harleys and other riduculously loud bikes exempt form the noise laws? Some of those tractors are WAY louder than most Solo I/II cars!

[miataboi]

Originally posted by Marsh
Umm, there is still a regional noise limit...:rolleyes:

yup...

[ice/solo racer]

Of course there's a noise limit-but lets look at the facts,the loudest reading that Barry took was a 91 DB so I doubt that if Ron puts a decent muffler on the midget that target will be hit again,my car will have a resonater added so I can reinstall some supertrapp disc and get some power back.
Note that the thread is titled noise issues not no noise limit,what I meant by the post is that there will be no nazi noise cops swooping down to save the public from the dreaded noise caused by our anti social fun!!
This events location is protected by trees and is well away from residential homes,not to mention that across the road is a huge gravel pit with a thousand trucks coming and going daily.
I just have issues with the eagerness in which Barry took it apon himself to police the rules,as a trained building inspector that has worked for a local municipality the first lesson learned is that you must conduct yourself with a certain amout of reasonablelism or you will get no assistance from the people your trying to protect/help.Barry and John stated at the drivers meeting on saturday that all readings would be taken from the closet public areas-when asked what that meant they replied from the curb at the street.I can attest to the fact that this was not done-in fact when watching Barry he spent most of the time getting as close as possible to the track,when he finally got poor Ron at 91DB he was at the curb allright-the one right next to the lot!!not the street as earlier stated.
And thats why have an issue with noise-not the rules as we all need them and I welcome them in fact as long as they are inforced consistantly and resonably.
I wanted to publicly thank Pat,Wes and Stephen Tong for not giving in to Barrys constant demanding that I be removed from the event on saturday without being given a warning OR a chance to correct the noise my car is capable of.
Thats what being reasonble means,and thats what you can expect this weekend-that and a bunch of fun!!

[Martini Focus]

I don't know how you could have been removed when that black Celica was allowed to continue. There was no way that car was under the DB limit.

But that's just my opinion.

[Nissan Racer]

I asked and the black Celica was not even tested.

[BrentW]

Ya, that was my friends car and I was really curious to see how many db it would hit, but I couldn't find the 'noise man' anywhere when he ran.

However I thought his car was surprisingly much quieter than Tom's and a few other competitors.

It seems the regulations for various test(s) not just the noise test were conducted haphazardously during that weekend and a lot of people left unhappy. :(

I still had a great time though :D

[Marsh]

BTW guys Barry measured the Prelude at 90 DB, so there is no way that the un-corcked AMOD cars are legal. Now I don't have a problem with that BUT: If somebody decides to protest a car and that car is over, then it's out. That's the rules. I'm just saying that because an organizers says the rules won't be strictly enforced doesn't mean it can't come into play

[Logan]

Ah ha! A way to bring down Tom!!!

;)

[Ron]

Originally posted by Marsh
BTW guys Barry measured the Prelude at 90 DB, so there is no way that the un-corcked AMOD cars are legal. Now I don't have a problem with that BUT: If somebody decides to protest a car and that car is over, then it's out. That's the rules. I'm just saying that because an organizers says the rules won't be strictly enforced doesn't mean it can't come into play

Marsh, us A-Mod guys have no problem with the rules. I just did not think the rules were applied equally across the board. For instance I did not see John or Barry measure Barry's car when Stephen was driving it. Well for the 3 runs I was allowed to do anyway and I watched. Rob Magro was asked to muffle his car after he made an 89 dB run. I was asked why I was not wearing fire proof underwear under my 2 layer nomex driving suit, because I was in a formula car ??? I don't think the dwarf resembles the cacoon of a Formula Ford, it has a door for crying out loud. John made snide remarks to Rob about me and Terry when we were standing right there. It was not the rules that were the problem, it is how they were enforced to whom.

Perhaps I have not been doing this long enough to care, but I would not protest a fellow competitor, even if I knew they were cheating and they were allways beating me. But hey I am here for the competiton and want to be able to stay for the duration when I bring out my hard earned and worked on bizzaro cars that I think are fun.

[ice/solo racer]

Hey Doug I'm going to give you a fighting chance this weekend-I'll be running Renalto's corolla instead of mine,here's the thing its a B1 car on street tires!(little 195's no less!!)and I'll bump myself into BSS while he runs in his normal B1.
I don't want to affect anyone's points battles outside of my usual class as I think thats not too fair(unless someone has a CSS car for me to co-drive,how bout it Marsh want some competition for a change?:) )

Just curious BrentW,what did you find so haphazard with the inspections conducted at the event?I know of one guy that wasn't happy but I never heard of anyone else getting upset.Care to provide any details?PM if you'd like.
Out of the 180 or so competitors if 1 guy was upset I don't find that as a problem,but I do wish to hear of any other complaints.
Perfect example of using the forum-post your concerns so people can address them.I believe in praising those that did a great job and letting those know when things didn't go so well.

[7plymaple]

Tom I beleive Brent might have been referring to me and my beef with my car being inspected and opend without me being notified. I remember expressing my feelings about it to him on Saturday morning. But after talking with you and Wes I feel that my concerns were noted and I know that you guys are doing your best to put on a good event. No worries here.

[ice/solo racer]

Thanks Simon-BTW I checked the results and noticed you were smokin-propositioned a couple of classes eh?Not to bad at all.

You should buy my corolla,need to see it go into capable hands.

[7plymaple]

Thanks that was a good weekend for me. But as for the carolla I would only buy it if it was a later model one. Up to 2001 I beleive had rear suspension of MAZDA design. ;)

[ice/solo racer]

Real funny Simon,so how many of those are there leading their classes and regularly being the second fastest production based car at events?One of these days I'd like to sneak past Paul in the supercharged miata!Oh yeah he has lightweight,power,grip AND a miata-so much for that eh?

[BrentW]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer

Just curious BrentW,what did you find so haphazard with the inspections conducted at the event?I know of one guy that wasn't happy but I never heard of anyone else getting upset.Care to provide any details?PM if you'd like.
Out of the 180 or so competitors if 1 guy was upset I don't find that as a problem,but I do wish to hear of any other complaints.
Perfect example of using the forum-post your concerns so people can address them.I believe in praising those that did a great job and letting those know when things didn't go so well.

Hey Tom, to answer your question I was referring to the random un-announced vehicle check that took place. Thankfully it was Simon, because he is known in your community. My concern wasn't that you check the vehicles, I think that is a good idea and totally acceptable. It was the fact that the inspection took place before there was any mention to the competitors that it was going to happen(however it was mentioned afterwards, during the drivers meeting). If Simon was a newbie to the sport and all of sudden sees a bunch of strangers inside his car poking around, that wouldn't leave a very good impression on the newbie..... Perhaps I'm totally wrong here in my way of thinking..... please tell me if I am.
But I really love this sport and want to see it continue to grow for newbies and the veterans. My biggest love for this sport last year when I did a few runs was how nice the people were! Plus I love to drive like everyone else here. I'm here as much for the racing as I am for the people!!

I hope this post has not offended anyone, I'm just expressing my opinion and I think a few others may agree.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
I don't want to affect anyone's points battles outside of my usual class as I think thats not too fair(unless someone has a CSS car for me to co-drive,how bout it Marsh want some competition for a change?:) )

Sounds like fun, but I don't know if my tires would hold up to two drivers for very long...

[ice/solo racer]

Yes Marsh I think it would be fun,maybe a fun run might be in the cards?.I have no deadline's as far as getting off the property so we usually have time for 1/2 hour or so of fun runs,not sure how this event will go as the entries will likely triple anything we've done there before.
In running there in the past it seems as its the drivers side front tire that takes the most punishment,so if you have thats ify than it should go somewhere else on the car.

Brent I've only been involved in the regional solo scene for 2 years but in that time I've never been teched or seen anyone else have a tech inspection.The intent of the inspection isn't to catch people cheating,its main intent is to correctly class cars and have a quick check for safty items.As a group everyone seems to trust that the main body of cometitors is honest.
When conducting the inspections it was decided that at least 2 people would do them(we did it with 3)so that if there was any contention that more than 1 inspector was present for confirmation.
There was no intent whatsoever to upset competitiors,the inspections took very little time and certainly didn't include climbing in and out of cars-simply looking was enough.

[Marsh]

We used to tech at regionals, and many other clubs but stopped doing it for liability issues. If you tell someone that their car is "safe" and anything goes wrong, you and your club are liable. No waiver would stand up in court for that since you made a statement about safety. Therefor the rules of tech still apply, but each driver is responsible for their own car. If someone notices you with a safety violation they can send you home, but NEVER tell someone their car is safe. I was actually very surprised to see tech at eastern nationals in 2001, but they also checked class and prep points in their tech.

Tom, a fun run will be fine. Heck the reason the tires are showing wear is that I seem to give it out for too many fun runs around WOSCA.

[BrentW]

I agree with the inspections and fully understand the intent.
My point was I just didn't agree with how they were originally conducted that's all :D

[tanney]

Random inspections were announced at the beginning of the season.

Checks for obvious safety issues were done and some were found (and in one case fixed).

A couple of years ago at a TAC regional event the scrutineering was more intense than Solo 1 scrutineering.

If we do indeed go towards CNAC rules........

Section 3.2.A.i "All vehicles must be in a safe condition and pass a safety inspection to be conducted prior to the event. All items in this section are to be inspected to ensure the vehicle meets all requirements without exception and are subject to the approval of the scrutineer at each event"

Section 4.8.C "Technical inspection shall be manditory for all cars with special attention given to brakes, suspension, throttle linkages, and loose articles in the car."

So, that being said.....Get used to it!

[Ron]

Tom and Wes.

Tom, If you are looking for a ride on Sunday, I think Terry and I will be the only guys in A-Mod that day as Kevin and Rob will not be there. So we could use someone to fill our class. Most likely we will be in the Dwarf, of maybe my seven, depends on the state of them after the Solo 1 event on Saturday. So you are welcome to co-drive with us. The only sticky point I can see is a fire suit. Kevin has offered his on loan, if you don't have access to one.

now back to the thread subject...

We took the dwarf to the dyno last night. After putting on the huge muffler, it made a whopping 27 hp at 5000 rpm where it stopped pulling. Leaned out the mains and got to 33 hp at 5500. After a run to Snow City Cycle, just before it closed we were able were able to get it to 11,000 with some leaner mains. It peaked at 70.3 hp and 47 lb/ft torgue at 9700. This was with a 150 main jet. Last year with the least restrictive exhaust we had 190 main jets and probably closer to 90 hp.

Wes, So with the PAX as it is for A-Mod and the noise limits as it is, I think the rules are a bit unfair. It is interesting the the CNAC rules that we are supposedly going to next year have a noise limit of 96 dB, but mod cars are much higher at 103 dB. This would make the PAX more reasonable. Hey maybe an old CanAm car would make a good autocrosser :)

An SCCA A-Mod car of the likes of the Phantom, with a 1 lire, 3 cyl 2 stroke, pumping out 200 hp+ needs these higher dB numbers to produce like that. The SCCA has no dB limit, "cars deemed to be excessively loud by the event organizer shall not be allowed to compete". To me this is rule, is way too subjective.

So how do I get on some committee to steer the rules to my favour? :)

[ice/solo racer]

Ron I would love to co-drive either of those things to help you out!I've allready accepted a ride in another car to run BSS with.I don't know how the organizer point thing works,I need the points for class standings and if I ran in A-mod I might screw myself a little as I would have no throwaways for BSS.
The rules state that a competitor can only enter an event once,so driving both is out I guess.Familarity with the course isn't going to help me as I have pretty much gotten as fast as I can around there without getting in something faster or I pick up some talent somewhere.
If there is a way to help you Ron I'll do it for sure,wonder if Wes sees any loop holes?:)

[tanney]

Tom, you are the organizer, no? If so, it doesn't matter where or even if you run. You will not be scored.

You will get the equivelent of your best score.

[ice/solo racer]

Thanks Wes,I guess that doesn't help Ron to fill his class then huh?
So does that mean I could run more than 1 car if the oportunity presented itself?

Ron I'd still take you up on the generous offer if you'd like/rules allowed it.I don't have a fire suit however.:(

Oh yeah one other thing Wes,what if this WAS my best score complete with back-up?just pondering ya know.

[Marsh]

You have to decided whether or not you take organizers points before the event begins. You can't get your score and then decide. :rolleyes: (BTW Last year the WOSCA event would have been my best to that point, but I managed a better one at the end anyway. Odds are pretty much always in favour of organizers points.)

[Logan]

Are you saying organizers points aren't 100, but the same as your best event?
Good thing I won BSS at the last event then...

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Logan
Are you saying organizers points aren't 100, but the same as your best event?
Good thing I won BSS at the last event then...

That's right. Or in my or Tom's case it's 100 and our best backup time of the year. If you frequently win your class it's a very advantagous. The only disadvantage is if you're in a battle to win your class then the 2nd place guy is almost garaunteed a win since your not competing. For this reason some people choose not to take points when they're able to. The primary reason this exists is because someone is supposed to pre-drive the course to make sure the setup is good. Obviously they can't compete, so they take organizers points. In regionals it's not as big a deal because there's usually a local club member that is experienced and not competing in regionals. In WOSCA it was more a case of a few people were intested in taking the points and we had to discuss who got dibs.

[Yvan]

It peaked at 70.3 hp and 47 lb/ft torgue at 9700. This was with a 150 main jet. Last year with the least restrictive exhaust we had 190 main jets and probably closer to 90 hp.

What were the temperatures each day? This week has been pretty frickin hot which could account for a big chunk of that HP loss if it was cool the last time you dyno'd.

[ice/solo racer]

I think I'll take the organizer's points,would really suck if I didn't and and 1 of the fast guys smoke me ya know!;)
My back up's suck anyway so moving up in overall isn't going as well as I'd hoped.Since I had no idea about those options I asked I asked about them,like I said I was curious on how that worked,hell I didn't even know organizor points existed untill well after I got the ball rolling on this event.
So Doug your going for the organizer at the PMSC event eh?thats probably good for me as your the one I have the most concern with on the smallish tight course that I think will be in place for your event-you get your 100 points but so might I(I know there's 5 or so guys that can beat me there too!:o )

Oh yeah with your comment on pre driving the course Marsh,didn't Barry do the test drive on saturdays double header event?I asked at the time and was told that he wasn't running saturdays event but I thought he ended up running-did he or didn't he run?

[Keith-02Accord]

Tom, Barry tested the course on Sunday. I believe he was the credited organizer for that event. He did run, but he wasn't scored.

[ice/solo racer]

Keith the day I was questioning was saturdays event,Barry is listed as a finisher in the results for that day.I know for sure it was Barry's car that preran the course,it might not have been Barry behind the wheel though.
I did question it at the time to whoever was standing there,remember being told that he wasn't running(don't remember noticing who was driving).I'm not making it an issue,it was just something I noted and was just wondering if that was the case.
Barry was very vocal about following the rules so.....,BTW I also noticed that Barry didn't run the mandatory sponser logo's on the car as required
:eek: