cash grab

[thgear]

its all a cash grab

http://www.thestar.com/article/609928


" Under the Toronto Police Association collective agreement, police officers who attend court as witnesses during a scheduled off day are paid a minimum four hours, at 1.5 times their basic wage, even if the appearance lasts for 10 minutes. Officers receive three hours of pay at time and a half if they appear in court before beginning a regularly scheduled shift.

There is no cap on how many overtime hours an officer can work. "

:eek::eek::eek:

[Steve Moore]

Serge, are you suggesting police officers should not be fairly compensated for going to court on their days off?

Those officers earning $100,000 + are always in court, doing paid duties and never home...to each their own. But if they work that hard they should be paid for it, no different than any other profession.

I like seeing my family, raising my sons, spending my days off racing. Not to mention I want to live in the house I pay for.

How bout you start a thread complaining about Firefighters sleeping on the job. They work seven days a month, 24 hours a day, they sleep, cook, wash their car, play road hockey and still make more than the average cop.

I shoulda been a hose jockey :D

[slucas]

Serge;if you get called in to work and then sent home 10 min. later, you too will be paid for four hours. It's the law. And it's a good one.

[thgear]

Serge, are you suggesting police officers should not be fairly compensated for going to court on their days off?

this is not fair compensation, this is far above fair compensation.

a police officer should get rewarded for his job putting his life on the line, to serve and protect, chasing criminals, going undercover, dealing with loads of stress. Hell pay them more, i'm for it.

a police officer should not get 1.5 times THAT for sitting in court talking with his buddies



Those officers earning $100,000 + are always in court, doing paid duties and never home...to each their own. But if they work that hard they should be paid for it, no different than any other profession.


ive been to the court room Steve, as far as i understand, a police officer is only responsible to present facts and stand witness. You consider that work that deserves 1.5 pay on top of a (relativly) large pay grade?

now, we are talking about traffic court only, murder cases and complex drug busts are outside of this topic.


I like seeing my family, raising my sons, spending my days off racing. Not to mention I want to live in the house I pay for.

at the expensive of government money?


How bout you start a thread complaining about Firefighters sleeping on the job. They work seven days a month, 24 hours a day, they sleep, cook, wash their car, play road hockey and still make more than the average cop.

I shoulda been a hose jockey :D

their salary is budgeted, this is a different issue.


Serge;if you get called in to work and then sent home 10 min. later, you too will be paid for four hours. It's the law. And it's a good one.

for OVERTIME?

this is an issue where a person already recieves a set salary, he/she does not have to worry about putting food down on the table, this is all extra cash.

[Doug P]

this is not fair compensation, this is far above fair compensation.

a police officer should get rewarded for his job putting his life on the line, to serve and protect, chasing criminals, going undercover, dealing with loads of stress. Hell pay them more, i'm for it.

a police officer should not get 1.5 times THAT for sitting in court talking with his buddies




ive been to the court room Steve, as far as i understand, a police officer is only responsible to present facts and stand witness. You consider that work that deserves 1.5 pay on top of a (relativly) large pay grade?

now, we are talking about traffic court only, murder cases and complex drug busts are outside of this topic.



at the expensive of government money?



their salary is budgeted, this is a different issue.




for OVERTIME?

this is an issue where a person already recieves a set salary, he/she does not have to worry about putting food down on the table, this is all extra cash.

I had to think about whether I should comment or not, but this is by far the stupidest post I have ever seen.

[thgear]

I had to think about whether I should comment or not, but this is by far the stupidest post I have ever seen.

you insult me and you provide little argument, very pedestrian.

Or are you so inept that typing anything more than a single sentence strains your brain?

[finboy]

how old are you?

[Steve Moore]

Doug, when Serge is off his meds his posts dont make any sense. Come to think of it........when do they? ;)

[thgear]

how old are you?

im 24, how old are you?

[thgear]

Doug, when Serge is off his meds his posts dont make any sense. Come to think of it........when do they? ;)

i'm just quoting the article Steve, its all there.

you get 1.5 times your regular salary to go to traffic court and you can rake up as much of this "overtime work" as you can.

and the bigger issue here is this unspoken "quota" of senseless traffic violations that cops are wasting their time writing out.

seriously, i dont even think you guys bothered to read the article i posted, that thing is like 4 pages long.

EDIT: a perfect example of this was my ticket on Tuesday, March 31st.

my dads birthday is march 14th, and the car is still in his name, since i havent lived with them forawhile i never got that renewal sheet, but in the back of my head i knew that by the end of March i had to get a new sticker.

i had a whole plan laid out in my hand, April 1st i put the car in the garage, and start taking the TTC, then when i would find the time (because Toronto MTO kiosks are always full to the brim) i would go and get a sticker so i can take the car out in emergencies.

i get pulled over by a cop who was behind me while i was making a left hand turn and he just asks for my papers, i ahvent a clue why. He comes back tells me that "my plate is expire", and i'm like "yeah, March, its still march" and he tells me "no, its march 14th" and gets back in his car.

now i have a 110 ticket!

and you know whats going to happen?

i'm going to go to court, show them my renewed sticker, and they will drop the ticket.

he seriously could not have let me off with a warning?

i thanked him politely for making the city streets safer by making me fork over some cash, which, according to the article, the city will only see a fraction of if i actually end up paying it.

[Steve Moore]

Serge, if we go to court while we are on duty we do not get paid anything extra. If we go off duty we get 3hrs minimum at time and a half, if we go on a day off we get 4 hrs minimum. So if your there 10min or 3hrs and 59min you still get 4 hrs.

Court is court, nothing different for Judge and Jury trials right down to Parking Tickets.

How can you expect Cops in court on duty when they are needed on the road keeping the city from anarchy.

Toronto is not the same city I started working in 20 years ago, I certainly wont be encouraging my sons to follow in my shoes.

[thgear]

Serge, if we go to court while we are on duty we do not get paid anything extra. If we go off duty we get 3hrs minimum at time and a half, if we go on a day off we get 4 hrs minimum. So if your there 10min or 3hrs and 59min you still get 4 hrs.

Court is court, nothing different for Judge and Jury trials right down to Parking Tickets.

How can you expect Cops in court on duty when they are needed on the road keeping the city from anarchy.

Toronto is not the same city I started working in 20 years ago, I certainly wont be encouraging my sons to follow in my shoes.

as the article outlined in the later sections, there are many things that could be done to get cops out of the court room doing more meaningful things.

1. driver education (something i have been a strong proponent for awhile now)
2. dont write dinky tickets (as per my post edit above), write less tickets, spend less time in court.
3. dont make it so easy for people to go to court (as per my previous post about 3 months ago where i went to court and had my speeding ticket reduced)

point two and three go very well together, write less tickets, be more forgiving, but make tickets that you do write stick more.

and to summerize:

a) the system is flawed
b) some cops take advantage of this system
c) there ARE solutions

i am not making anything up, the article, its all in there, i'm just putting my spin on it.

[Trackside]

Well there is an option.

We could make sure that all the police officers and the courts should get together and schedule all the court appearances to fall on days when they are on shift.

Then you would have the choice of reducing the police force actively enforcing the laws of the land or sitting in court to provide evidence for people they have already caught breaking the laws.

Personally I would rather have the police officers on the street for their regular shifts and gladly pay them time and a half for their overtime in the courts.

Oh and your argument that the firefighters are different because it is budgeted doesn't fly. The police budget also includes overtime for officers, any company or budget person who doesn't include these sort of things in a budget isn't doing their job.

[thgear]

Oh and your argument that the firefighters are different because it is budgeted doesn't fly. The police budget also includes overtime for officers, any company or budget person who doesn't include these sort of things in a budget isn't doing their job.

if its budgeted, why is it such a surprise?

as someone that works in accounting, i can tell you right now, no one would ever budget an empoloyee doubling his salary through overtime.

[Trackside]

I don't understand why anyone is surprised. It isn't the first time that it has happened. Research some articles around the same time each year and I bet you will find that it has happened every year for a long time.

As for budgeting for a person to double their wages no, but then again when I set budgets I do not go person by person either. I go by, in my case departments, and if a department has a salary of x$ and projections show the need or potential need for overtime allotment then it is set up in the budget.

Don't forget budgets are a guideline not carved in stone, and they are rarely accurate to the penny

[thgear]

i regress,

the article points out the flaw, that, a police officer, should he/she choose to do so

can spend on duty time being rigerious in writing out tickets to anyone that looks at them funny (because no one drives perfect), then just wait for the court date requests from less than submisive citizens.

accept the overtime, and watch the cash roll in.

that is the issue, its a loophole.

in a city of less than perfect roads, less than perfect laws, and less than perfect drivers, this is NOT fair.

i see smart cops cashing in due to the nations poor driving testing and teaching practices, and cash-grab laws (like sticker renewals and "car tax")

[George]

...Toronto is not the same city I started working in 20 years ago, I certainly wont be encouraging my sons to follow in my shoes.

Yeah, it's a real slice in TO and not going to get any better. Seems to me it started to decline around 1985 and quickly turned to crap from there.

[soloZ]

Serge, are you suggesting police officers should not be fairly compensated for going to court on their days off?

:D


not that I am against anyone but what about when I go to be a witness? I loose half a day and get to watch someone get off lite.

[MDeeez]

What Steve fails to tell everyone is that Metro expects it's officers to meet the performance standard for writing tickets. It's not a quota but a standard. You don't have to write the 1 ticket per working day that is the average but you'll know about it in your next performance review. Now if you are a traffic cop then the standard was a book a day but with this down economy who knows what the city is looking for.
If you have every been stopped by an officer you'll most likely hear them say take it to court and we'll get it lowered.
Steve I don't know what the performance standard for the canine unit is though. It might be 2 squirls, 3 racoons and a cat.

And yes I know all about it because I am one of those idiots paying for paid duty daily and have heard from many officers about it.

[racerguy19]

Ok, so maybe I'm looking at this in a very simplistic way......here go's.....you broke the law and were caught, and because of this you decide to rant about how unfair it is for the cop (who caught you breaking the law) gets paid extra for doing what is required of him???

Did I miss something or are you pissed because you got caught???

It's not the cop's fault he get's paid what he does......as a matter of fact, we should pay them more for the crap they have to deal with these days, don't forget that these are the men and women who work while we sleep and on Christmas and New Years Day so we can have time with family and friends.......safely!!!

If you would like to rant, do it about something that matters......oh, I don't know, like maybe the politicians who make the laws in the first place.

Steve
racerguy19

[dubya_rx]

He's complaining that the cops could write any number of bogus tickets KNOWING that the person will fight it. Thus he will be called to court to get his 4hrs 1.5X pay. Keep on doing this a few times and you get double your salary.

I'm not saying that anyone would do this, but that it's possible.

[Steve Moore]

Mdeeez,

Ofcourse there is a performance standard, I didn t realize I had to mention that. How else do we as supervisors justify our members are earning their living when they arent arresting people with guns, fighting drug addicts and being assaulted on a daily basis, just read a paper or watch the news.

FYI, I am not in K9 anymore, but my partner and I served 8 1/2 years with distinction and were the highest decorated K9 Team in Toronto if not Canada.

Squirrels eh, I d like to see if you have the parts to trackdown armed suspects on a nightly basis to ensure the safety of those who would so quickly critize you.

Try walking in my shoes before shooting off your yap, hiring paid duties doesnt make you an expert on policing. :rolleyes:

[TFB]

i'm just quoting the article Steve, its all there.

you get 1.5 times your regular salary to go to traffic court and you can rake up as much of this "overtime work" as you can.

and the bigger issue here is this unspoken "quota" of senseless traffic violations that cops are wasting their time writing out.

The answer to all of this is very simple.

We can very easily screw all those greedy cops out of their courtroom overtime. All we have to collectively do is abide by all of those traffic laws that we agreed to abide by anyways as a condition of getting a driver's license.

What? You don't like that idea? Then you're agreeing to voluntary taxes in both the form of potential ticket fines and in the form of the payroll costs of backing those tickets up in court.

[TFB]

1. driver education (something i have been a strong proponent for awhile now)
2. dont write dinky tickets (as per my post edit above), write less tickets, spend less time in court.
3. dont make it so easy for people to go to court (as per my previous post about 3 months ago where i went to court and had my speeding ticket reduced)


Gee, when I took driver ed, one of the points continually stressed was to be aware of and comply with traffic laws. After all, a drivers license is a privilege extended subject to a number of conditions, one of them being that you abide by Ontario's traffic regulations.

As far as points 2 and 3 are concerned, the laws, even the dinky laws, define a line in the sand that has to be defined otherwise we would have no laws at all. The lines in most cases are quite clearly drawn - cross them at your own peril. If you choose to cross those lines you may get lucky, but don't come here and whine about those lines when you're not.

[GregJn]

Steve anybody who is bitching about what cops make either in OT or any other function of the job, wouldn't have the stones to track down a criminal in the night. And they definately wouldn't have the stones to say any of that to your face or the face of any other Cop. But they would be the first person to scream bloody murder if something ever happened to them for real. Keep up the good work and if you get a good OT rate for court, good for you. You wouldn't be in court if you weren't out there making the streets safe. Be it from idiot drivers or violent drug addicts. Thank you and enjoy the extra cash you deserve it.

[Mule]

Steve,
I would bet that all of the years that you have been in law enforcement you took a lot of ribbing re. the Timmies / doughnut thing. Now you had to defend yourself and your fellow officers on this OT thing. Well done, you kept your cool !

Sorry to read your not working with your partner anymore. I think most of the people on this forum don`t understand what your partner was and the bond you had. I hope you found a good home for he or she to enjoy it`s retirement.

thgear and some others are misinformed about the double salary.Obviously they don`t get time and a half, double time or even triple time wages. If they did they would soon realize how much the cats in Ottawa take out of that. After about 8 hrs of OT / week, your take home on that is less than you would think, a lot less.
Some wrote they do budgets. Anyone who does payroll could explain in more detail how much the feds want for OT earnings.
They give up some of their off time to spend with whomever or whatever to represent the Crown and and to see Justice served. Is it wrong that they are compensated ?

Law enforcement officers have more important things to do than dropping paper on someone re. the H.T.A.

thgear, your only 24. The day will come when you will thank a law enforcement officer, a firefighter or a paramed and you will forget about the $ 110 fine.

[Steve Moore]

Thanks for the support guys.

Argus is now a pampered pooch at home with us. After 8 1/2 yrs being together 24hrs a day as partners, there was no way we werent keeping him. He had a hard time dealing with the separation anxiety at first but he seems better now.

He gets his fix when the kids watch COPS on Saturday nights lol.

[Mule]

Does he bark at the bad guys on TV ? LOL
Be safe at work and good luck this season.

[thgear]

Steve anybody who is bitching about what cops make either in OT or any other function of the job, wouldn't have the stones to track down a criminal in the night.

what does tracking down criminals have to do with writing out tickets in fish-sports? :confused:

[thgear]

thgear, your only 24. The day will come when you will thank a law enforcement officer, a firefighter or a paramed and you will forget about the $ 110 fine.

i dont care about the 110 fine, i'll take care of it, empirally there is nothing i can say.

read the first post on this 2nd page, i'm not going to bother re-itterating the same thing over and over again.

as for the age thing, my father is 50 and has never used the "services" of any of those 3, what would you tell him?

"keep hoping that you'll run into a situation where a cop/paramedic/firefighter will save you so that you can let the poor system slide? " thats a little mean....

[GregJn]

as someone that works in accounting, i can tell you right now, no one would ever budget an empoloyee doubling his salary through overtime.


Accounting??? Are you kidding? I think you should just head back to your cubicle and hope and pray that these fine men and women that you so eagerly insult don't have to come to your aid. And heaven forbid that while rescuing your sorry ASS they have to go to court as an arresting officer, because we all know that the OT is completely unjustified. Oh wait I suppose that now that they are working in favor of you they should receive double time.

Your jealousy shines through, and I can understand. I mean it must be tough pounding away at that computer all day dreaming about being someone who really makes a difference to someone other than a CEO or board of directors. That's ok though you can go home at the end of the day and know that tomorrow when you go to work the worst you will face is that Fat Chick in accounting, the boss, or a paper cut. These over paid and greedy cops get to go home and wonder tomorrow will be their last day on this earth.

You know what will really piss off you though. Last summer I stupidly forgot to put my val tag on my plate. My birthday is July 2. In August or September I was stopped and let go with a warning. It's funny how Karma works I respect the cops and think they deserve all the pay they get, and I catch a break. You obviously have something against them and the pay they get, and the beauty is they got you and you got what you deserved.

[aviography]

not that I am against anyone but what about when I go to be a witness? I loose half a day and get to watch someone get off lite.

Not entirely true, you are suppose to get a TTC token! :D

[aviography]

EDIT: a perfect example of this was my ticket on Tuesday, March 31st.

my dads birthday is march 14th, and the car is still in his name, since i havent lived with them forawhile i never got that renewal sheet, but in the back of my head i knew that by the end of March i had to get a new sticker.

i had a whole plan laid out in my hand, April 1st i put the car in the garage, and start taking the TTC, then when i would find the time (because Toronto MTO kiosks are always full to the brim) i would go and get a sticker so i can take the car out in emergencies.

i get pulled over by a cop who was behind me while i was making a left hand turn and he just asks for my papers, i ahvent a clue why. He comes back tells me that "my plate is expire", and i'm like "yeah, March, its still march" and he tells me "no, its march 14th" and gets back in his car.

now i have a 110 ticket!

and you know whats going to happen?

i'm going to go to court, show them my renewed sticker, and they will drop the ticket.

he seriously could not have let me off with a warning?

i thanked him politely for making the city streets safer by making me fork over some cash, which, according to the article, the city will only see a fraction of if i actually end up paying it.

The license sticker expires on the birthrate of the registered owner in the year the sticker expires, not at the end of that month, all the facts are conveyed in the license sticker renew notice sent to the registered owner long before the expiry date.

I do remember the days when ALL plate stickers expire at the end of a particular month, that was just too much of a bottle neck. I know this since I was also once pulled over a day after this annual date and issued a ticket while driving my father's car, when I knew my father had purchased the sticker a few days earlier, but turned out he didn't put it on since it was raining that day, the sticker was in the ashtray when I got pulled over!

As unhappy as we were, we paid the ticket since we knew we were in the wrong.

So should you with this ticket.

You can help out with the overtime situation by simply sign the ticket pleading guilty and send in a cheque for the fine, so that you are not wasting the court's time and tax-payer's money that you are so sensitive about.

[abrracing]

Personally, because firefighters are allowed to have other jobs of anykind while employed by the cities, I think they should be paid on "piece work" (lol). When they are eating sleeping and washing cars they should get paid nada!
btw..............police officers should get the balance of the firefighters pay!
________
Live sex webshows (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[thgear]

as someone that works in accounting, i can tell you right now, no one would ever budget an empoloyee doubling his salary through overtime.


Accounting??? Are you kidding? I think you should just head back to your cubicle and hope and pray that these fine men and women that you so eagerly insult don't have to come to your aid. And heaven forbid that while rescuing your sorry ASS they have to go to court as an arresting officer, because we all know that the OT is completely unjustified. Oh wait I suppose that now that they are working in favor of you they should receive double time.

Your jealousy shines through, and I can understand. I mean it must be tough pounding away at that computer all day dreaming about being someone who really makes a difference to someone other than a CEO or board of directors. That's ok though you can go home at the end of the day and know that tomorrow when you go to work the worst you will face is that Fat Chick in accounting, the boss, or a paper cut. These over paid and greedy cops get to go home and wonder tomorrow will be their last day on this earth.

You know what will really piss off you though. Last summer I stupidly forgot to put my val tag on my plate. My birthday is July 2. In August or September I was stopped and let go with a warning. It's funny how Karma works I respect the cops and think they deserve all the pay they get, and I catch a break. You obviously have something against them and the pay they get, and the beauty is they got you and you got what you deserved.

You are so off base here its hilarious!

cubicle, HA

[thgear]

The license sticker expires on the birthrate of the registered owner in the year the sticker expires, not at the end of that month, all the facts are conveyed in the license sticker renew notice sent to the registered owner long before the expiry date.

the punishment does not fit the crime

110 dollars for a 75 dollar sticker

+

insurance hike that will be with me for the next 2 years

+

record of me somehow being a bad driver

no thank you.

[aviography]

the punishment does not fit the crime

110 dollars for a 75 dollar sticker

+

insurance hike that will be with me for the next 2 years

+

record of me somehow being a bad driver

no thank you.

So it's OK to waste taxpayer's money when it is NOT to YOUR best interest?

A bit of double standards, wouldn't you say?

The set-fine for an offense needs to be higher than the regular cost for not committing the offense. Look at this way, should parking fines be as high as they are? If the fines aren't any, or much higher than the actual parking fees, then why not just park illegally all the time and pay the fines if and only when caught? It'd be much cheaper! However, think of all the resulting chaos from the consquence of fines that do not represent sufficient deterrent for those people who do not follow them?

As well, your expired sticker is not a moving violation, so it's possible that your insurance may not be affected.

[tanney]

You can help out with the overtime situation by simply sign the ticket pleading guilty and send in a cheque for the fine, so that you are not wasting the court's time and tax-payer's money that you are so sensitive about.

Serge, I have to agree with Ken on this one... Pay the ticket and move on.

[thgear]

so how many here bothered to even read the article i posted?

enough about my ticket, i just used that an example to illustrate a case where a cop could have let me off on the spot, i explained to him what my "plan" was and yes it was my mistake that i confused end of month with birthday significance.

as far as "So it's OK to waste taxpayer's money when it is NOT to YOUR best interest? "

i waste VERY little tax payers money, dont point fingers at me, if anything i should get some back. My bias has always been against people that find loopholes in the social systems to fill their pockets.

this goes for ANYONE, ceo's, clerks, pandhandlers, you, your neighbor, cops, whoever.

the article outlined a case where a police officer can get more cash than one would expect by doing the steps outlined, that is a loophole, that drains the system, and fills up individual pockets. Period.

Now i'm off to the solosprint/autoslalom open house, to help set up and greet new and existing competitors, and i might have gotten 2 new participants this year, taking racing off the streets and help with driver education. How wasteful of me.

peace.

[TFB]

Seeing as the car is in your father's name, maybe you should demand that your father pay your fine for his negligence in failing to renew the car's sticker in time.

As for the cop not buying your "explanation", I'm sure he or she thought that your explanation ranked right up there beside "the dog ate my homework".

In the end, you were ignorant of even the most basic of vehicle licensing regulations that you should have known, or you were willfully gambling that you could drive that car undetected an extra couple of weeks before parking it for a while. Either way you lost and nobody is to blame for that but yourself and your father.

However, it's good that you feel justified in playing the system some more to weasel out of paying a rather insignificant fine. That way you can feel good about "screwing the system" and sticking it to the man, and of course the man can get his overtime. Everyone wins, right? So quit whining.

Speaking of your bias about people finding loopholes to line their pockets, have you or your father bothered to inform your insurance company that you are primary driver on this particular car owned by your father, and that it currently resides in Toronto and away from your father's home address on a full time basis?

Your going off to a Solo workshop is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand.

[GregJn]

You are so off base here its hilarious.


Off base? No I just called a spade a spade. Congratulations on recruiting 2 competitors for solo sprint and taking racing off of the streets. Like TFB said. Take it to court waste my tax dollars and yours, pay the officer for his Ot. But make sure that you tell the courts that you have brought an end to street racing. I'm sure you'll be given the Order of Canada. And I must apologize obviously you are making a difference. I am going to go out and drive around now knowing that you have single handedly made the streets safer.

If you want to come on here and insult people expect it to come right back at you. Just because I ignored your ticket and went straight to cutting you down, doesn't mean I was off base. I simply chose to call you out. Does your daddy know that you're on here sort of kind of blaming him for your lack of judgement. If I were him I'd ground you and take your car away.

Oh and by the way I read the Star daily I have read your posted article.

[thgear]

Speaking of your bias about people finding loopholes to line their pockets, have you or your father bothered to inform your insurance company that you are primary driver on this particular car owned by your father, and that it currently resides in Toronto and away from your father's home address on a full time basis?


the insurance is in my name under my new address.

[thgear]

You are so off base here its hilarious.


Off base? No I just called a spade a spade. Congratulations on recruiting 2 competitors for solo sprint and taking racing off of the streets. Like TFB said. Take it to court waste my tax dollars and yours, pay the officer for his Ot. But make sure that you tell the courts that you have brought an end to street racing. I'm sure you'll be given the Order of Canada. And I must apologize obviously you are making a difference. I am going to go out and drive around now knowing that you have single handedly made the streets safer.

If you want to come on here and insult people expect it to come right back at you. Just because I ignored your ticket and went straight to cutting you down, doesn't mean I was off base. I simply chose to call you out. Does your daddy know that you're on here sort of kind of blaming him for your lack of judgement. If I were him I'd ground you and take your car away.

Oh and by the way I read the Star daily I have read your posted article.


first of all i didnt insult anyone,

wait, scratch that.

you're a dumb ass idiot who cant read

there, now i insulted you, so atleast that part of your statement is true.

as for the rest, i dont like arguing with dumb ass idiots who cant read, because anything i write, wont get through their thick skulls, and they will keep coming back with dumb arguments that have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

you're officialy the first person to be put on my ignore list, congrats!

[Mule]

thgear,

Chill, pay the fine. Leave the cops alone and concentrate on this up coming season.
You wrote that you help out fellow Auto X and Solo I people. It`s great to read that you give up your spare time to help out other people who also have this addiction, so to speak.
Get off the keyboard and get your car ready to run . There isn`t a lot of people on this board buyin` what your trying to sellin`

[thgear]

its not.. about.. the ticket....

[GregJn]

Buddy you went off on an earlier post to someone about how they couldn't string together a sentence, and that's not insulting to people? I won't resort to calling you names. But I would love to meet you in person. I'm sure we'd have a great conversation. One sided but I'd love it.

[George]

so how many here bothered to even read the article i posted?


The problem could quite easily be resolved by eliminating due process with respect to HTA offenses and including license suspensions as well as vehicle impounds in addition to the existing HTA tariffs. Simply take the courts out of the equation - problem solved.

[thgear]

hell, just remove the HTA :)

[George]

No, can't do that - it generates a lot of cash.

But the common law provides too much protection for criminals and should be curtailed particularly with respect to low end stuff like the HTA. If you want to go to court you should have to post a bond of say $5,000 and costs will be deducted from that when you lose.

[thgear]

No, can't do that - it generates a lot of cash.

But the common law provides too much protection for criminals and should be curtailed particularly with respect to low end stuff like the HTA. If you want to go to court you should have to post a bond of say $5,000 and costs will be deducted from that when you lose.

so,

is the HTA there to make the roads safer, or is it there to generate cash for the city?

i ask because on my way to CSC Racing today, the city could have made ALOT of money by stopping everyone on the 404, since during the day the traffic speed was 125-130km

with a couple of guys doing flyby's alone in the carpool lane.

[George]

You might have some of the basics mixed up there. HTA is provincial legislation not something David Miller came up with.

[Crusher45]

So I read through this garbage and came to one conclusion, Serge, nice avatar. Nuf said.

[thgear]

You might have some of the basics mixed up there. HTA is provincial legislation not something David Miller came up with.

whoever gets the bottom line dollar from infractions.....


So I read through this garbage and came to one conclusion, Serge, nice avatar. Nuf said.

thank you! :)

[finboy]

im 24, how old are you?

sum's it up


when you grow up in a few years... you're view on life will change

[thgear]

sum's it up


when you grow up in a few years... you're view on life will change

you never answered my question

and dont give me that age bullshit, experience comes from doing things not living longer.

you dont know me, you dont know where life has taken me and what i have seen, read, and witnessed.

[ADAM]

I like to think of the police as

"after the fact'ers"

[Dan Fraser]

you never answered my question

and dont give me that age bullshit, experience comes from doing things not living longer.

you dont know me, you dont know where life has taken me and what i have seen, read, and witnessed.

You got a point there.Ive seen people do things wrong for years:eek:

[finboy]

you never answered my question

and dont give me that age bullshit, experience comes from doing things not living longer.

you dont know me, you dont know where life has taken me and what i have seen, read, and witnessed.

i'm sorry..you're 100%

let me know when your book comes out

[thgear]

i'm sorry..you're 100%

let me know when your book comes out

you havent answered my question.

[finboy]

you havent answered my question.

your 100% again!!

[thgear]

your 100% again!!

you're a tool Dave, you insult someone by throwing out the age card, yet are too chicken shit to spill some truth about yourself.

you're the heckler in the back rows, sitting close to the exit, grow a pair will ya.

[finboy]

you're a tool Dave, you insult someone by throwing out the age card, yet are too chicken shit to spill some truth about yourself.

you're the heckler in the back rows, sitting close to the exit, grow a pair will ya.

youer 100% again x 2

[thgear]

youer 100% again x 2

i can see you're getting angry cuz you're not making any sense, i'm assuming there is supposed to be the word "right" in there? :rolleyes:

[Wheeler]

you're a tool Dave, you insult someone by throwing out the age card, yet are too chicken shit to spill some truth about yourself.

you're the heckler in the back rows, sitting close to the exit, grow a pair will ya.

tool
chicken shit
grow a pair

...and yet you say him merely mentioning:rolleyes: your age is insulting?

[Travis]

its all a cash grab

http://www.thestar.com/article/609928


" Under the Toronto Police Association collective agreement, police officers who attend court as witnesses during a scheduled off day are paid a minimum four hours, at 1.5 times their basic wage, even if the appearance lasts for 10 minutes. Officers receive three hours of pay at time and a half if they appear in court before beginning a regularly scheduled shift.

There is no cap on how many overtime hours an officer can work. "

:eek::eek::eek:

It's the same sort of pay for with computer operations (networks, servers, etc) when those guys are on pager.

It can be abused though. I've heard of stories where the operations specialists intentionally schedule problems to happen in their off hours that they can fix by simply logging in from home for a few minutes. Easy money.

[legger]

thgear...check your facts.

Having an out of date sticker doesnt increase your insurance rates!

[thgear]

thgear...check your facts.

Having an out of date sticker doesnt increase your insurance rates!

its a minor HTA infraction, thats all the insurance company cares about.

[thgear]

went to court today

prosecutor threw the ticket out without even talking to me (i accidently waited in the wrong side of the court room waiting area)

she just found me after and took my transcript and said "its been thrown out, you can go"


like i said, it was a bullshit ticket that means NOTHING, a bored cop with a quota found a fish by pure chance, and the only thing he contributed to was me wasting a few bucks on gas. Hooray for our cities finest, no overtime hours on my behalf, suckers.

[slucas]

I'm not sure of this but; if you drive a car without a valid sticker your car insurance won't cover you if you get in a collision.

[thgear]

I'm not sure of this but; if you drive a car without a valid sticker your car insurance won't cover you if you get in a collision.

you're probably right, insurance companies will find all sorts of ways to weasel themselves out of paying.

a buddy of mine got screwed like that when he gave his old camry to his grandmother, he got the insurance paperwork all ready but there was a delay with getting the ownership transfered over

so the car was in his name, but insured under his grandmother, and what do you know? car gets broken into during those 2 weeks while they were getting the ownership papers together, he had some quality stereo equipment in there plus body damage (broken windshield and something else)

insurancy company ****ed him on that one, told him since its in his name but not insured they "cant do anything about it". :rolleyes:

sick sad world if you ask me.

[Mule]

A few years ago I was T-boned by an impaired driver who had no insurance.Hit me on the drivers side door.My head hit the passengers door armrest.I received the payout for my ride in about 10 days.There are two sides to every story re. insurance.

[h-bomb]

I'm not sure of this but; if you drive a car without a valid sticker your car insurance won't cover you if you get in a collision.

Correct, the vehicle must be properly plated for use on public roads.

Hanif

[slucas]

So Serge really got off easy with a $110 fine for driving an unlicensed, uninsured car .

Serge; as much as you think this is a petty charge, just think how much trouble you would have cause yourself if you had got into a collision .
Your insurer doesn't need to answer your call so it would be all on your nickle.

[thgear]

So Serge really got off easy with a $110 fine for driving an unlicensed, uninsured car .

correction, 5 dollar fine, which is how much gas it took me to drive to court and back.


Serge; as much as you think this is a petty charge, just think how much trouble you would have cause yourself if you had got into a collision .
Your insurer doesn't need to answer your call so it would be all on your nickle.

empirical trouble..

think about it, think about it real hard.

i'm paying my insurance, my insurance is not expired, i'm paying into a large pool of money that others, who get into accidents, can draw onto. This is how insurance works and i like the concept.

then you have a municipal/provincial law, which basically does 2 things, maintains current info on the vehicle owners and its location, and puts some money into the government coffers to pay for MTO operation and all that jazz.

i'm not avoiding paying for my sticker, i was simply 15 days overdue because i had the dates mixed up, and you're telling me that if i was to get into an accident then all those years of paying my insurance are forfeit? (rhetorical question)

not only that, but i get beat down with a hefty ticket for it as well,

and let me ask you this, so the cop writes me a ticket, and i get into an accident 5 minutes later, so now i'm denied insurance AND i have to pay the fine? :confused:


its a moral joke, thats what it is, and so is paying time and a half for hardly any time to sit in a room and read from a notepad.

[slucas]

Serge, you were driving an uninsured car on public roads.
Whose fault?
Read the contract you signed with your insurer

You're a smart guy but you have a real blind spot in seems when it comes to taking responsibility, at least for this offence.

Empirical trouble.
Take my example to the next step.
You've just had an at fault collision and you have no insurance ( because you miss read the rules ) .
What kind of agro have you just added to the innocent parties life?

Just think about that Serge.

What is their recoarse (or more correctly, their agent's) ?

As to your last question, I guess the cop actually should have had the car taken off the road.

If it's a moral joke , you'll need to tell me the punch line. I'm not following what you mean.

[TFB]

i'm not avoiding paying for my sticker, i was simply 15 days overdue because i had the dates mixed up, and you're telling me that if i was to get into an accident then all those years of paying my insurance are forfeit? (rhetorical question)

Yes, it can be forfeit because you failed to live up to the contractual terms of your insurance policy. Those terms are laid out as part of the standard auto insurance policy defined by Ontario law. http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/English/forms/autoforms/endorsement/OAP1_23-10-2006.pdf

1.4.5 You agree not to drive or operate the automobile, or allow anyone else to drive or operate the automobile, when not authorized by law.

If your license plate sticker is expired, your vehicle is specifically not authorized by law for use on the road. It doesn't matter whether that expiry comes as a result of intentional lapse or as a result of just being ignorant of the law. Either way, you are in breach of the contractual terms of your insurance policy.

[thgear]

If your license plate sticker is expired, your vehicle is specifically not authorized by law for use on the road. It doesn't matter whether that expiry comes as a result of intentional lapse or as a result of just being ignorant of the law. Either way, you are in breach of the contractual terms of your insurance policy.

a hefty penalty for something so minor as lacking a sticker, dont you guys think?

which has nothing to do with safe driving, and everything to do with bureaucracy and legal wording.

and, if my vehicle is not authorized by law to use on public roads, why did the cop let me go? Why write a ticket?

if my offence is so great that i may have dire consequences in the event of an accident, the cop did a very bad thing by letting me go, didnt he?

[Doug P]

a hefty penalty for something so minor as lacking a sticker, dont you guys think?

which has nothing to do with safe driving, and everything to do with bureaucracy and legal wording.

and, if my vehicle is not authorized by law to use on public roads, why did the cop let me go? Why write a ticket?

if my offence is so great that i may have dire consequences in the event of an accident, the cop did a very bad thing by letting me go, didnt he?

I have never heard anyone admit to being at fault and complain so much. Do yourself, your friends and all of us that have to listen a favour. The requirements are simple and easy to follow. Do it and you will not have 95% of the issues you complain of. You complain of overtime pay for these guys yet you are the one guily of doing the stupid things and then going to court to waste more time.

I had the unfortunate circumstance of getting a speeding ticket yesterday. I was following two other cars and all three of us pulled over yet the OPP officer let the others go as as he explained that my car was the one picked up by the radar on the bridge.

Disapointing that I was the last car in the line yet I was the one ticketed. I was speeding so guilty as charged.

Dave is right, but I do not think you will ever get it.

[thgear]

I have never heard anyone admit to being at fault and complain so much. Do yourself, your friends and all of us that have to listen a favour. The requirements are simple and easy to follow. Do it and you will not have 95% of the issues you complain of. You complain of overtime pay for these guys yet you are the one guily of doing the stupid things and then going to court to waste more time.

i only admit to doing a stupid thing because the stupid thing is written into the law, if the people writing this thing were not smoking crack i wouldn't be admitting to doing stupid things because i would not be breaking them.


I had the unfortunate circumstance of getting a speeding ticket yesterday. I was following two other cars and all three of us pulled over yet the OPP officer let the others go as as he explained that my car was the one picked up by the radar on the bridge.

Disapointing that I was the last car in the line yet I was the one ticketed. I was speeding so guilty as charged.

disappointing? I dont think you are disappointed, at least i get no sense of frustration or anger from your words

you got dealt a raw hand and you seem to be perfectly fine with it, forgive me if i dont share your nonchalant view on the situation


Dave is right, but I do not think you will ever get it.

a long time ago people thought the earth was flat... some even thought it was on top of elphants and whales....

[slucas]

Serge; Go to a proctologist and get your head pulled out of your "donkey".

[thgear]

Serge; Go to a proctologist and get your head pulled out of your "donkey".

okay

can i suggest the same to you? :rolleyes:

lets go together, we can hold hands.

[BGregovski]

a hefty penalty for something so minor as lacking a sticker, dont you guys think?

which has nothing to do with safe driving, and everything to do with bureaucracy and legal wording.

and, if my vehicle is not authorized by law to use on public roads, why did the cop let me go? Why write a ticket?

if my offence is so great that i may have dire consequences in the event of an accident, the cop did a very bad thing by letting me go, didnt he?
___________
Serge, I think you need to take a step back and look at what you are typing. The 'val tag' thing may be minor in your eyes but like many have tried to show you or explain to you, things can go bad in a hurry. As someone who has a little more life experience than you, I have seen many things where people thought what they were doing was 'minor' only to find out the hard way they are someplace they wish they weren't. I will give you one thing....an expired val tag has nothing to do with safe driving and no one has questioned that...but what is does show is a lack of responsibility and that goes along way to someone’s credibility and character. If it was a legit oversight on your part….stand up, be a man, and take responsibility. Admit your mistake and move on….don’t try and hide behind “stupid laws” type comments or its someone else’s fault not mine…..

On the cop should not have let me go statement you made…..the cop catches you…the Court lets you go. You should remember that.

Overtime is overtime……..just about every job has some provision for this….police work is no different and nor should it be. Many long hours are spent trying to make sure all the I’s are dotted and T’s crossed so bad case law is not written…and that is a benefit to all………I’m not sure what you do for a living nor do I really care, but try working 12 hours dealing with all kinds of people and situations then having to sit and write reports or sit in court waiting to give evidence … usually on very little sleep or on your day off.

Oh ya, in this day and age its not to hard to surpass 100K mark in many professions. Its just a number, many do it….guys on assembly lines, COO’s etc. Unfortunate that if you pass 100K everyone knows....

Remember “rules are rules” and most are created for the lowest common denominator. We have some rules at the track that are far more strict that the HTA, but not to many complaints are heard there……..

Keep recruiting new people for the track, that what this board needs to hear more of.

B
_______

[wikdslo]

There are 2 points of views that I didn't really see mentioned in this all too long thread.

1. Don't get a ticket, and you won't give any cops the opportunity to make a minimum 1.5x overtime pay.

2. If the cop IS going to court, you are likely having to pay all of or most of a fine, which will be used to subsidize the minimum 1.5x overtime pay they are then receiving.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.