watch out for "cabs" in Halton Region

[spd-dmn]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Zeeman28a/miscellaneous/up-DGVK8RFCIBQ0FI94.jpg

tsk tsk, the latest dirty trick designed to take our money

[TFB]

How is this any "dirtier" than using completely unmarked cars, ghosts cars, etc? Would you also whine if the car was a police-equipped but unmarked modified 240SX instead?

None of them, the "taxi" cab included, are in your car controlling your driving decisions for you. As for your driving decisions, they shouldn't be dependent on whether or not you think the cops are around to see you and ticket you for your indiscretions.

Anyways, this is a pretty ingenious way to "disguise" the very readily identifiable Crown Vics. It can only add to the paranoia of the hoons out there who won't know when the next cruiser will appear or what it will look like. I like it.

[thgear]

How is this any "dirtier" than using completely unmarked cars, ghosts cars, etc? Would you also whine if the car was a police-equipped but unmarked modified 240SX instead?

None of them, the "taxi" cab included, are in your car controlling your driving decisions for you. As for your driving decisions, they shouldn't be dependent on whether or not you think the cops are around to see you and ticket you for your indiscretions.

Anyways, this is a pretty ingenious way to "disguise" the very readily identifiable Crown Vics. It can only add to the paranoia of the hoons out there who won't know when the next cruiser will appear or what it will look like. I like it.


No one said it was "dirtIER".

[Taylor]

Nah that's pretty lame.

It's one thing to tag in a plain car, it's another to impersonate.

While the law may be the law, alcohol at one time was illegal too. Speeding is just such a cash grab it's not funny. That said.. you have to be driving like an ass (or unlucky) to get a speeding ticket from a marked car these days.

But.... that photo looks like it may be photoshopped.. aren't the grill ights usually BEHIND the grill?

[DJones]

:cool:Hey gang , with the attitude of the driving in the town of Milton lately, this isn't such a bad idea after all. Besides that , the number on the roof sign just happens to be the Halton line to the Police .:eek:

[Steve Moore]

Hahaha....I Love it.

Show me where on the sign it says it is a cab?

Doug is right that number is to Halton Police

You just assumed it was a cab ;)

[spd-dmn]

haha you don't have to be coy.

i'm well aware the number is Halton Regional's

but when you're driving (as opposed to looking at a photograph on the internet) you aren't gonna be reading the number

of course i assumed it's a cab.. that's the POINT.

say what you will. it's a devious tactic.

I know this has been covered on this board ad nauseum, and I'm sorry for bringing it up again. but AS IF this latest trick has anything to do with promoting road safety. it's about generating revenue. don't be naïve.

[TFB]

but when you're driving (as opposed to looking at a photograph on the internet) you aren't gonna be reading the number

of course i assumed it's a cab.. that's the POINT.

say what you will. it's a devious tactic.

Who cares if it's devious as long as it's legal and effective? If you're driving in a manner that causes you to be continually peering ahead or looking over your shoulder for police cruisers, that's a good sign that you know you're driving improperly.

Unmarked and disguised police cruisers are meant precisely to detect and deter that kind of driver. Anyone driven to fits of anxiety over this kind of police vehicle would do well to reconsider and correct their own driving habits. Or, contribute to the public coffers when you get caught. Your choice - you can choose to be part of the revenue stream or not.

[Taylor]

a good sign that you know you're driving improperly.
Hahahaha...

This reminds me of the story a police captain gave me and a couple other guys at a pre-PACER TV junket about what terrible drivers cops made and how he wish he could fund a day at BRA for his guys... I don't recall if P. told them they've liable for the damage or not.

Also learned some interesting stuff about the Malibu's that day too.

I'd say this tactic of disguising a cruiser to look like a taxi falls somewhere between "Protect and Serve" and entrapment quite frankly.

But shit what does the goverment know about 'service' anyhow... ServiceOntario Kiosks don't let you obtain UVIPs from them anymore.

How the hell do you LOSE a convienence?

But sure, in the end, you know the law, you decide to break it, you know the consequences. Still, unless these are parked in the suburbs or schools zones, me thinks they ain't doing a damn thing to deter anything.

How many people have they been able to enforce that street racing law on? Is the thinking that eventually they'll have caught them all and run out of people to charge with it or what? Or when that happens do they lower the speed threshold to 140?

I barely leave the house and yet about once a week I watch someone go clear through a red light.

If politicians actually gave two proper $#!ts about this they'd have legislated limiters on all private production vehicles a long time ago... course then they'd lose a big revenue stream. Seriously what other explanation could there be?

Cops/The Deparment/the Mayor.. whomever should be randomly pulling people over to look at their tires more than anything. Show me a check spot for proper vehicle safety and maybe I'll give them a break on lame tactics like this.

[Slowpoke]

... and that car just happens to be sitting in the driveway of Fourstar Motorsports/Goodyear/Halton Rad & Tire in Georgetown. :D Local council wants the police to cut their budget so they don't have to increase property taxes quite as much. So, they're taxing people who have enough money to ignore the clearly posted speed limits. I'm all for it.

If you're not familiar with the area, when you head west on Hwy 7 from Winston Churchill in the villiage of Norval, you might want to keep close to that 60km/h limit as you climb the hill in the west bend to enter Georgetown. They have lots of good hidden radar points at their discretion to pick you off.

[tanney]

Hey if the police wanted to clean up bad drivers in Mississauga and Brampton, park a cop at EVERY light intersection (no make that three cops) in Peel with ticket books in hand. They would nab in excess of 60 red light runners an hour.....at each intersection!

In the last four or five years I could count on both hands the number of times someone DIDN'T run a red light that I was sitting at. It's so bad at some intersections that people will not turn left until all traffic has come to a complete standstill in all directions at the light before turning (allowing only two legal left turns and about four red light runner left turns) and holding up the traffic who now have the green light in the other direction.

The only intersection I have ever seen this take place at is Mavis and Courtney Park, and they have a line of cars pulled over at every light change.

That area is an urban planning nightmare though where no real fore thought was put into the planning. Its like we build 50000 new home with 70000 new families in a neighborhood..... maybe we should build three school, two of which are isolated between four very busy arteries...... but that's off topic.

No worries if Serge were to get pulled over by one of these cab/cruisers, we would be safe in knowing that he would be fighting the ticket in court, assuring that those cops kept their $150k annual salary going.....:D

[jgardhouse@gmai]

If you're not familiar with the area, when you head west on Hwy 7 from Winston Churchill in the villiage of Norval, you might want to keep close to that 60km/h limit as you climb the hill in the west bend to enter Georgetown. They have lots of good hidden radar points at their discretion to pick you off.

EVERY time I have visited FourStar, I have been clocked somewhere between Norval and the shop - even at 7am on a Saturday... :eek:

Never fun when you're in a prepped car! (But I just follow the law! Its served me well thus far, knock wood..)

[Burnsey]

I'd say this tactic of disguising a cruiser to look like a taxi falls somewhere between "Protect and Serve" and entrapment quite frankly.

I wouldn't say that myself. Now, if the police build up a street racin' rice rocket, and start enticing people to street race, THAT might cross the line. On the other hand, under cover detectives lure people into buying drugs all the time...same with prostitution/John busts...where does one draw the line...

But as for the cruiser pictured above, IMO, it's just creative camouflage :D


I barely leave the house and yet about once a week I watch someone go clear through a red light.

Amen! I've started checking both directions before starting into the intersection...almost like I'm at a 4-way stop instead of a light.


Show me a check spot for proper vehicle safety and maybe I'll give them a break on lame tactics like this.
The rest stop on Hwy 400 south, just before King City, and that Wendy's/Esso rest stop on Hwy 401 West before Courtice (?) They seemed pretty busy when I went through!
Granted, I would like to see more of them. But I'm sure it takes a lot of $$ to run one, along with co-ordination with the MTO and about a dozen tow truck companies :p

[Cap'n Pete]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Zeeman28a/miscellaneous/up-DGVK8RFCIBQ0FI94.jpg

What's the fine for driving with a burned out headlight? Nice circle check, officer!! :p

I like it.
I'm shocked :rolleyes:.

[Andy]

In the past Metro Toronto Police had a Volkswagen Beetle that they used for radar.

Andy

[TFB]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x309/Zeeman28a/miscellaneous/up-DGVK8RFCIBQ0FI94.jpg

What's the fine for driving with a burned out headlight? Nice circle check, officer!! :p


I'm shocked :rolleyes:.

The alternating left-right headlight flashers are on, working as designed together with the red and blue flashing LEDs. I'm sure you've seen the effect yourself in your rear view mirror before. :rolleyes:

[MazdaMatt]

Hehe... if i'm not mistaken, that particular CV has been cruising g'town for years without the new hat. I recognized that fourstar motorsports driveway too.

I think it is clever, if you're FOR hidden police. Personally, i think a car WITHOUT a cop in it parked at the side of the road provides more road safety than an unmarked car. Cheaper, too.

I'm sure Halton Region can pay for the entire annual budget on Norval Hill speeding tickets... That was one of my first lessons when i started driving... don't speed up the Norval Hill... even though it is a 60 zone and could easily be a 70 or 80 since there are no intersections, driveways, houses, sidewalks.

I'm also pretty amuzed with the headlight out.

Re: "rice rocket police cars" - there was an american county (i think) that started seizing people's rice rockets and using them for patrols.

[tanney]

In the past Metro Toronto Police had a Volkswagen Beetle that they used for radar.

Andy

Didn't Toronto have IROCs back in the late eighties or early nineties?

I had a friend who worked for a company who installed massive turbos in 5litre Mustangs back in the 90s for the Texas State Troopers. He took me out in one and all I could say at the time was "Holy s***!"

[Slowpoke]

I'm also pretty amuzed with the headlight out.


TFB is right... the headlights are alternating L-R with the strobes. Both lights were working the day that we were watching.

[feds]

Credit where credit is due:

Niagara regional actually does the reverse of this: Up until a month or 2 ago, Lundy's lane was patrolled in the typical "hide a cop in the same spot on the last Wednesday in the month" fashion.

Recently though, they have taken to parking an actual taxi in a semi-hidden spot just after the limit drops from 60 to 80. The cab is white with red and blue stripes, and a low-pro phone number sign.

Previously, everyone would just go 80 until the first traffic light, except on that last Wednesday. Now every morning there is a predictable brake-jamming party at the spot where the taxi becomes visible.

As for this thing: The taxi sign is an unusual expense, outside of the regular modifications for a police car. It is obviously specially ordered, since it has the Halton police number on it. my question is: How does this sign, in and of itself, increase road safety, or the effectiveness of the Halton police?

Answer? It doesn't. This is the Halton police investing in their ticket taking program in order to increase revenues. If I lived up there, I would be getting in contact with civic officials.

[Cap'n Pete]

The alternating left-right headlight flashers are on, working as designed together with the red and blue flashing LEDs. I'm sure you've seen the effect yourself in your rear view mirror before. :rolleyes:
Thanks for pointing that out. Sorry I didn't clue into the flashing effect when I first looked at the still photograph and saw the headlight out :rolleyes:.

On a semi-related note, the OPP were on a bloody rampage yesterday! :eek: On my travels from our cottage near Bancroft, down 28/115/401 back to Oshawa, and then to CSC and back for the Open House (401/404) I saw numerous speed traps and cars pulled over ... the most I've seen in a long time?! I guess the shear volume of all the flashing red & blue caught my attention more than the alternating headlights on their cars though ;). Good thing I didn't stand out from the crowd or flip-off a "cabbie" yesterday :).

[Dan Fraser]

Yeah I noticed alot of police yesterday too.Mostly on the 401.Too bad they don't bother tailgaters:mad:

[tanney]

Credit where credit is due:

Niagara regional actually does the reverse of this: Up until a month or 2 ago, Lundy's lane was patrolled in the typical "hide a cop in the same spot on the last Wednesday in the month" fashion.

Recently though, they have taken to parking an actual taxi in a semi-hidden spot just after the limit drops from 60 to 80. The cab is white with red and blue stripes, and a low-pro phone number sign.


Back in the 70s when the 401 speed limit was 70mph the Brockville OPP used to park a cruiser on the North Augusta Road east bound 401 on ramp. It would be there six days a week for at least four hours, once every two weeks there was a cop inside and he would blitz everyone going over 70.

It worked like a charm as everyone knew there would be a cruiser there, but you would roll the dice as to whether the officer was present and NO ONE sped through that section of the 401....

[thgear]

I wouldn't say that myself. Now, if the police build up a street racin' rice rocket, and start enticing people to street race, THAT might cross the line. On the other hand, under cover detectives lure people into buying drugs all the time...same with prostitution/John busts...where does one draw the line...

But as for the cruiser pictured above, IMO, it's just creative camouflage :D

cabbies, in general, should be avoided like the plague

they drive irregulary, speed up for no reason or cruise at 10 below the limit, they are large and bulky, will dart to the sidewalk to a raised hand, pull a u-turn anywhere at a whim, and generally are a menace.

when i am around cabs, i make sure to change that as soon as possible, usually involving slight HTA infractions.

so yes, cops in cabies may very well be inciting, to some....

[Dave]

and yes Wes, i'll take everything to court, because i'm not guilty of bad driving.

Maybe not, but you are guilty of driving a bad car :p

I think the impersonating a cabbie thing is pure gold. It takes a sense of humor to put their phone # on the roof. If I got pulled over by a cabbie cop car, I'd pay the ticket just for the comedic value!

Anyway, speeding is sort of a road usage tax for the stupid or inattentive -- question is, which one are you? Haha!

I'm with Wes on the red light runners. That's a real safety issue and I wish the cops would crack down on that a bit more, instead of focusing quite so much on speeding. Even in sleepy little Ancaster we've got tons of red light bandits who just can't wait that extra 2-minutes on their way to the video store.

[Taylor]

Now, if the police build up a street racin' rice rocket, and start enticing people to street race, THAT might cross the line.

Well I'm not sure what street racing has to do with speeding. One is dangerous, irresponsible and only done by a handful of assholes and the other is a couple millimeters and PPsqI difference of ones right foot that the bulk of the motoring public in Upper Canada do.

I mean the idea.. the guise, is supposed to be for road safety. I mean, that's why the laws are supposed to exist.. the "protect" part.

All I'm saying (beyond how weak the tactic is) is if they cared about automobile safety, this is not the way to do it.

Quite frankly a speeder doing 130km/h who notices a cop ahead doing radar and slows down to the limit is a SUBSTANTIALLY safer motorist than the one doing 110km/h and doesn't see the cop. That means the driver is aware of their surroundings and the real actual cause of accidents and motor vehicle deaths is inattentiveness anyways.

Granted, I would like to see more of them. But I'm sure it takes a lot of $$ to run one, along with co-ordination with the MTO and about a dozen tow truck companies :p

Be that as it may, that would be a preventative tactic that would properly deter and promote safe vehicle maintenance vs a reactionary one that is... "We always catch speeders here in this piece of road, because the limit should be higher.. but it isn't... so lets work on the retirement fund today!"

And what's more disgusting about it is insurance companies will win out more than the municipality ever will.... hey maybe by speeding we can all save the economy. :)

[spd-dmn]

Yep, that is totally in line with my thoughts.

It's funny how speed traps are set up at 7am on bright, clear Saturday mornings on rural, relatively empty roads, behind hills or under overpasses. These aren't the places or times where accidents happen-- they are the places where it's easiest for the police to catch motorists going over the posted limit.



Yet on a wet, cold, windy day (the exact type of conditions that call for more attentiveness to actual road safety) you are MUCH LESS likely to see any speed trap activity.

Why is that?




"Road safety" is an extremely convenient PR line used by governments and their agencies to justify stealing money via unwarranted speed traps.

I truly wish they would focus on improving actual road safety instead of maintaining focus on revenues.

We'd all be better off.

[Steve Moore]

Why is that you ask?????

How about the fact there was a collision ever 60 seconds this morning and the Police are tied up doing accident reports! :rolleyes:

How about people obey the rules of the road.....We'd all be better off

[Crusher45]

Why is that you ask?????

How about the fact there was a collision ever 60 seconds this morning and the Police are tied up doing accident reports! :rolleyes:

How about people obey the rules of the road.....We'd all be better off

There's rules of the road??? I thought they were just implied the way the morons drive on the 401. I thought the speed limit was 175 'cause that what most do. Bring back photo radar!

[Trackside]

There's rules of the road???

Sure there is Dave, just like there are rules to pitlane, paddock etc etc :rolleyes:

Bring back photo radar!

Sure start another topic for Serge to get all over everyone about the over taxation and power hungry politicians, policemen and women :eek::eek:

[Andy]

Wes, yes Metro had two pursuit cars that ran on the DVP and Gardner. One was a bad ass Chrysler that would barely idle with the big cams it had and the other one was a Camaro.

The cab car is gold as Dave put it. I give Halton police credit for their creativity.

I do agree that something has to be done with the blatant disregard for stopping for red lights. It would be interesting if someone would research and report the number of accidents caused by red light runners. I think the numbers would be huge.

Andy

[thgear]

Sure start another topic for Serge to get all over everyone about the over taxation and power hungry politicians, policemen and women :eek::eek:

lets do it!

btw, photo radar is ass.

[Steve Moore]

Hey Andy, Id love to hear more about this Chyrsler we had??

A buddy of mine drove the camaro's, there were two and they were the police package 5.7 with auto and a modified ecu for top speed. One was crashed beyond repair on the DVP and the second wasnt much straighter and was scrapped. I dont think they were around for more than two years if I recall correctly.

Needless to say they were a huge risk management issue that wouldnt see the light of day today.

[Slowpoke]

I recall way back when one of my driving instructors mentioned that 85% of collisions happened at intersections and that I had to be my most alert there. Not sure of current figures.

I can tell you that when you have good brakes, you need to watch the rearview mirror when you stop for a red light. I love watching them spill their coffee or drop their Blackberry when I slow down for a yellow.

Yep, I agree. Spike the tires of red light runners and people who use the on ramp / off ramp to pass during stop and go rush hour.

[feds]

Brakes, schmakes. Drive a 5-speed car and downshift when approaching lights. Every day someone behind me jumps for the shoulder.

[tanney]

I recall way back when one of my driving instructors mentioned that 85% of collisions happened at intersections and that I had to be my most alert there. Not sure of current figures.

I can tell you that when you have good brakes, you need to watch the rearview mirror when you stop for a red light. I love watching them spill their coffee or drop their Blackberry when I slow down for a yellow.

Yep, I agree. Spike the tires of red light runners and people who use the on ramp / off ramp to pass during stop and go rush hour.
Yep, we got creamed in the SiR in November of 07 because, stupid me, I stopped when the light turned yellow. The Mercedes behind me (about 150 METRES) thought he would run the red..... Only I had stopped!

I think that red light cameras at EVERY intersection in the GTA is a must. Although most will end up in court (right Serge?) they will no doubt pay for themselves then start generating revenue in less than a year. Then they can use the revenue to fix ou pathetic roads and bridges that are about to fall down.

But no Mr. Miller will likely fund some stupid outdoor year round ice skating path in an environmentally challenged and dedicated park in South Etobicoke......

[thgear]

Yep, we got creamed in the SiR in November of 07 because, stupid me, I stopped when the light turned yellow. The Mercedes behind me (about 150 METRES) thought he would run the red..... Only I had stopped!

I think that red light cameras at EVERY intersection in the GTA is a must. Although most will end up in court (right Serge?) they will no doubt pay for themselves then start generating revenue in less than a year. Then they can use the revenue to fix ou pathetic roads and bridges that are about to fall down.

But no Mr. Miller will likely fund some stupid outdoor year round ice skating path in an environmentally challenged and dedicated park in South Etobicoke......

I would never run a red light, i think its a serious offence. I only take bullshit tickets to court.

If anything i agree with all of you.

[Trackside]

Hey Andy, Id love to hear more about this Chyrsler we had??



Steve I remember back in the 70's, yes I am that old, the force had a couple of Chysler products, Polara's I think, that were done up full cage and all. One of the officers used to frequent one of our tire stores and he would stop in to check on his personal vehicle while on duty.

It was a bada$$ vehicle. Only one seat, full harness and cage. I think they used one of the Mopar big blocks that were basically fully race prepped for the day. I recall the officer relating a story about one night on the DVP when they chased down a Ferrari and a Porsche. It started arounf the 401, the 404 didn't exist then, and ended down near the Lakeshore. Speeds were int he 140 mph area when they finally slowed and the two drivers tore up their licences in front of the officer.

I can imagine the risk management people of today would have some serious problems with the concept today, but hey it was the 70's and we all were invinceable. That was when sex was safe and racing was dangerous.

[Cap'n Pete]

^ ^ Yes, those cars did exist ;). My Dad's brother was a Metro cop back then. My Dad met one of the guys who drove that car. I think he said they were referred to as "X" cars ... but yeah, 440 6-pack, done up, strictly a chase car ... my Dad got to check it out one time. Apparently he got to see the thing in action too ... no flashing lights involved though ;).

Cops still have/had some muscle cars in their line-up. I don't think we have anything special in Ontario these days, but in the States, I know that Florida, for example, still used the late-model LS1 Camaros for highway cars. I think I heard a few other States used them as well. "Risk Management" and all that aside, I see no reason NOT to give cops a car that is capable of keeping up to a possible suspect's car ... what good is a 3.8L V6 against even HALF of the modern sports cars out there?! :rolleyes: I realize that within city limits, the radio is probably the best bet, but in the more rural areas, I still think a good chase down is probably more, um, "reliable" or "likely to keep track" than radio-ing ahead, and hoping someone can intercept in time. I realize there is always something faster, but seriously, try getting away from an LS1 car ... it'll take something pretty hyper to do it ;).

[Andy]

Steve the yellow marked Chrysler (not sure if it was a Dodge or Plymouth) was the one with the big fold down roof lights. My friend used to patrol with this car and would end up in my driveway every now and then. When I used to work for Ford we looked after all of the new RCMP and OPP cars. Most of these cars had special packages on them. Ford had what they called a Police Interceptor Package.

Andy

[Slowpoke]

It has the flashing red lights in the hood scoop, too!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/2966322605_abc3e9dc86.jpg


Police Vehicles in the U.S. and Canada (Unmarked car list further down.) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_models_of_police_cars_used_in_the_US#Subaru)

[abrracing]

There is only one solution to all this speeding and taxi ghost cars etc. I think we have speed limiters in all of our cars that limit us to 40kmh in town and 80kmh on highway. We would save millions out of our pockets in tickets and the government could lay off 90% of the traffic officers as we wouldnt have all the accidents etc. Think of the savings in life and dollars! I should be the King I mean Premier of Ontario! Vote ABR
________
Laguna Heights Condominium (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[Cap'n Pete]

Talk about slllllooooooooooooooooooowing the economy down! :rolleyes: How's that for "progress"?! Might as well bring in gov't legislated HP limits too. That'll encourage the automotive industry to keep striving for higher performance and efficiency from our vehicles, eh? :rolleyes:

The problem is, speed limiters have already become socially acceptible and welcomed (at least by some) to our roads ..... in transport trucks. Just wait ... we can joke about having them in cars, but they too will probably become reality one day. Unfortunatly, a speed limiter won't solve the problem of bad driving.

[feds]

@tanney:

Problem with red light cameras is that they inevitably generate a fox-guarding-the-henhouse situation. When they stop generating revenue, the city will turn down the yellow light length to bring it back up. Conversely, when yellow length goes up, red light tickets go down.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/dalton-ga-dumps-red-light-cameras/#more-304602

Nevermind that redlight cameras actually increase accident frequency:

http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=83634a05-d62e-47e1-b8e9-dc247df001ef

Sort of the same situation as the taxi car. Police know people don't speed when cops are visible, so they spend money to hide the cars in plain sight. It doesn't slow people down, but it does generate revenue. It's a good investment for the force to make.

[Cap'n Pete]

CLEARLY, un-marked cars are out there for our protection, not revenue!? :rolleyes: I mean, since we won't know what the cops are driving, we'll always be on our guard, and drive accordingly, in case the Subie/VW/Buick/Civic next to us is a cop ... and everyone will slow down and drive safer :). I'm SURE it'll be effective, "hiding" more cops in traffic. Well, eventually, after people get tired of paying for it, it'll become effective ;) (at actually slowing people down). 'Til then, I agree it'll be a VERY effective money maker.

[Slowpoke]

Nevermind that redlight cameras actually increase accident frequency:

http://autos.canada.com/news/story.html?id=83634a05-d62e-47e1-b8e9-dc247df001ef


Yes, but rear end accidents when the vehicle behind is already braking aren't as severe as side impacts when the oncoming traffic accelerates to make the light in front of a late left turner.

Stopping for red lights causing accidents is evidence of poor driver training, as well as the obvious carelessness and recklessness of the at-fault party. You always scan the rear view mirror when you're stopping. You can't stop your own vehicle until you've stopped the one behind you first.

[Crusher45]

Sure there is Dave, just like there are rules to pitlane, paddock etc etc :rolleyes:



Sure start another topic for Serge to get all over everyone about the over taxation and power hungry politicians, policemen and women :eek::eek:

What? That Commie Pinko Bastard? Nice avatar!

[Steve Moore]

Andy, yeah those were before my time, I have heard they were fast but lousy brakes. The expressway cars (CaptnPete's "X")are very unstable with that big sign acting as a wing at high speed.

The Crown Vic's with the Police Interceptor Package are sleds, too heavy with all the computers, radio, cage. While quick up to a top speed of 220 km/h the brakes are soft and then gone after a few hard applications. While still in K9 I responded to a shooting in Scarborough from Etobicoke, the rear brakes actually caught fire on the car as I arrived onscene.

The majority of coppers have basic advanced driving skills, some even worse, so high speed driving in a crowded city is not something we as a service promote. Public Safety comes first, many pursuits are discontinued. That being said very few actually get away. There are just too many of us and the they cant out run the radio.

[thgear]

Andy, yeah those were before my time, I have heard they were fast but lousy brakes. The expressway cars (CaptnPete's "X")are very unstable with that big sign acting as a wing at high speed.

The Crown Vic's with the Police Interceptor Package are sleds, too heavy with all the computers, radio, cage. While quick up to a top speed of 220 km/h the brakes are soft and then gone after a few hard applications. While still in K9 I responded to a shooting in Scarborough from Etobicoke, the rear brakes actually caught fire on the car as I arrived onscene.

The majority of coppers have basic advanced driving skills, some even worse, so high speed driving in a crowded city is not something we as a service promote. Public Safety comes first, many pursuits are discontinued. That being said very few actually get away. There are just too many of us and the they cant out run the radio.

so remind me again how bogus laws combined with basic advanced driving skilled officers out with a quota and a judge who probably knows less about cars and racing than either the cop or the defendant are supposed to discern whether someone is a bad driver or not?

[george carlin] bullshit [/george carlin]

one day Steve, you will openly agree that a good chunk of what the HTA and its enforcers do, is strictly in the interest of raising money from the inattentive, and poorly informed, or sometimes fully aware and informed public, rather than a mass desire to raise the overall ability of said public to handle themselves on the road.

[George]

... too heavy ... the brakes are soft and then gone after a few hard applications.

... the rear brakes actually caught fire on the car...



Interesting liability / negligence issues there.

We seem to have police officers running around in cars that are not fit for the job of responding quickly to an emergency situation never mind engaging in a pursuit.

[Steve Moore]

Serge, safe to say I dont ever see a time where you and I will agree.

George, negligence????????????

Gimmee a break buddy, when you dial 911 do you want us there as fast as we safely can to save your a$$, Aside from K9 and ETF, no one else goes from one side of the city to the other responding to calls.

Sometimes I really wonder why I try and explain things, give you the inside view, when all some of you do is bitch and whine about the job we do.

[George]

George, negligence????????????

Gimmee a break buddy, when you dial 911 do you want us there as fast as we safely can to save your a$$

Sometimes I really wonder why I try and explain things, give you the inside view, when all some of you do is bitch and whine about the job we do.

You missed the point and took it personally. I wasn't criticizing you or the job.

I'm suggesting that if the cars are like that then they should do something about the situation because what was described is pure gold to any counsel for the plaintiff in a negligence action against the police.

[feds]

Yes, but rear end accidents when the vehicle behind is already braking aren't as severe as side impacts when the oncoming traffic accelerates to make the light in front of a late left turner.

Stopping for red lights causing accidents is evidence of poor driver training, as well as the obvious carelessness and recklessness of the at-fault party. You always scan the rear view mirror when you're stopping. You can't stop your own vehicle until you've stopped the one behind you first.

You're shooting at your own argument. Redlight running is bad driving, and turning in front of someone who is accelerating is being inattentive to what is in front of you. Stopped cross traffic doesn't floor it the minute the light goes green, so all you risk by NOT turning left until you are sure the way is clear, regardless of light colour is some jackass in a BMW honking at you.

Oh, wait, nevermind, because in Toronto you can get ticketed for being in an intersection after the light changes... Automatically by camera... Wasn't there an earlier post about foxes and hen houses?

[thgear]

Serge, safe to say I dont ever see a time where you and I will agree.



i dont think thats true, as far as criminal investigations and safety response i value the police greatly.

i just think the HTA is a joke on a good number of sections.

[George]

... Some jackass in a bmw honking at you.


lmao

[thgear]

Originally Posted by feds
... Some jackass in a bmw honking at you.

lmao

usually from behind!

[Taylor]

Unfortunatly, a speed limiter won't solve the problem of bad driving.

No, this is true. However it's not speed that kills, it's difference of speed. So I argue when traffic is flowing at 120, we should be able to do 120+-10km/h without fear of being ticketed. That would/should be safer than driving the maximum of 100.

Now when someone's doing 80, leaves their merging lane early and in front of someone doing 120.. well.. (fortunately most good drivers (speeding or not) know to get the hell away from merging traffic. :)

[Crusher45]

No, this is true. However it's not speed that kills, it's difference of speed. So I argue when traffic is flowing at 120, we should be able to do 120+-10km/h without fear of being ticketed. That would/should be safer than driving the maximum of 100.

Now when someone's doing 80, leaves their merging lane early and in front of someone doing 120.. well.. (fortunately most good drivers (speeding or not) know to get the hell away from merging traffic. :)

The speed limit is 100k. Do 101k and you're breaking the law and ARE a criminal. Maybe you can handle a car at 120k but most drivers can't. Don't like 100k change the Government to change the law.

[Taylor]

The speed limit is 100k. Do 101k and you're breaking the law and ARE a criminal. Maybe you can handle a car at 120k but most drivers can't. Don't like 100k change the Government to change the law.

First off, I'd like to see the police or any court try to enforce a 101km/h speeding ticket in a 100km/h zone. Just about every automobile speedometer is out by a couple percent.

Secondly, what province are you driving in?

I'd argue, the avg speed outside of rush hour for the bulk of the drivers this side of Bowmanville is 110-115.

The avg speed of a 407 driver is easily 120 during daylight. I set the cruise for 124 and I only slowly pass a handful of people. (This is a far cry from the 150-160 I may have been found to be doing on the 407 in 2000)

Our 100km posted limit highways are designed such that just about anyone can handle 120 on bald tires with just about zero risk of incident. The radius of just about any highway 'corner' I've encountered should easily support 140 in an average car.

Anyone who is not comfortable driving 120, probably shouldn't be doing 100, let alone drive on the highway as it is.

Again, the point I'm making here is safety and the completely backwards way the government goes about trying to achieve and enforce it.

FYI, there's a few Highways in Atlantic Canada rated at 110 and they're no where near as large as our 400 series highways. What do "most" of the drivers do out there who can't handle their cars over 100km/h? They'll create a speed differential that is more likely to cause an accident than all of them driving 90 or 120.

[inoverdrive]

The speed limit is 100k. Do 101k and you're breaking the law and ARE a criminal. Maybe you can handle a car at 120k but most drivers can't. Don't like 100k change the Government to change the law.


WOW...Crusher....You must of got out the wrong side of bed this morning. :rolleyes:

I realize that you drive an over sized SUV and it has difficulty getting up to speed, and maybe that's a good thing for you. I've seen you drive. :eek:

I enjoy going just a little faster to keep up with the traffic.;)

[Andy]

Hey Steve, you don't need brakes when you have push bars.

Andy

[Cap'n Pete]

First off, I'd like to see the police or any court try to enforce a 101km/h speeding ticket in a 100km/h zone. Just about every automobile speedometer is out by a couple percent.
As per Driver's Ed and the MTO Driving Examination I took in '98, I was to maintain the speed limit, +/- 4 km/h. So, on the 400-series, that's 96 - 104 km/h. That's "by the book". IMO, a ticket for 1, 2, 3, or 4 km/h "over" should NOT EXIST. As well, about the only justifiable reason(s) I see to do LESS than 4-under is A) incliment weather, or B) a large truck / large (over-size) load. Basically, only "exceptional circumstances". Under NORMAL conditions, for normal vehicles, anything less is completely unacceptible, and leads to the next point:

Anyone who is not comfortable driving 120, probably shouldn't be doing 100, let alone drive on the highway as it is.
THANK YOU!!! :D Somebody else who sees my point on that! :D

"Drivers" who are not comfortable with "speed" make ME "uncomfortable" :rolleyes:. It shows a complete lack of skill, competency, and confidence. As Taylor pointed out, the 400-series highways are DESIGNED for higher speeds than 100 km/h. On a DAILY BASIS, people prove it. Heck, we've got evidence that ~200+ km/h is easily achievable out there ;). A 100 km/h speed limit, unfortunately, is just a band-aid solution for the sub-standard drivers out there, and it's an easy cash-grab.

Just like I think there should be a separate Winter license, I also think there should be a "Highway" license. I think if we weened out the drivers who can't cut it on those roads, we'd have far fewer problems than we do now.

And back on topic briefly, but again, if "safety" is the goal of the OPP on our highways, then more MARKED cars, and fewer "ghost" (cabbie) cars would go a long way to ACTUALLY slowing people down :rolleyes:.

[Slowpoke]

And back on topic briefly, but again, if "safety" is the goal of the OPP on our highways, then more MARKED cars, and fewer "ghost" (cabbie) cars would go a long way to ACTUALLY slowing people down :rolleyes:.

I'm sorry... did you just finish your rant by admitting that slower is safer? :p

[Crusher45]

WOW...Crusher....You must of got out the wrong side of bed this morning. :rolleyes:

I realize that you drive an over sized SUV and it has difficulty getting up to speed, and maybe that's a good thing for you. I've seen you drive. :eek:

I enjoy going just a little faster to keep up with the traffic.;)

You can get "Big Jim's Sports Camper" over 80k? I'm impressed. I used to drive my Vet at 140 on the 401, no big deal BUT the law is the law and if you don't like it have it changed is all I'm saying. Just wished I owned a gas corporation, could drive more in my SUV and make a ton on those driving 120 or more. As for driving out east at 110k, np as there is 1/100th the traffic out there. Oh and the 140 in the Vet is MPH.

[Cap'n Pete]

I'm sorry... did you just finish your rant by admitting that slower is safer? :p
It may/not be my opinion ... just acknowledging what most people seem to strive for ;).

However, if slower = safer, then we could all go ZERO km/h, but that would get us nowhere quick :rolleyes:.

[feds]

However, if slower = safer, then we could all go ZERO km/h, but that would get us nowhere quick :rolleyes:.

Plus, half of the car owning public would likely die of carbon monoxide poisoning, and then we'd need cop cars tarted up like door-to-door salesmen, so they could catch people in the act of idling in their garage.

[John Powell]

Remember everyone, "Speed Kills" ... but only if someone does something stupid first. :rolleyes:

[Cap'n Pete]

Remember everyone, "Speed Kills" ... but only if someone does something stupid first. :rolleyes:
It would really save a lot of the headache if we'd stop trying to come up with laws for every conceivable act that stupid people may do, and instead, call a spade a spade and simply outlaw STUPID!!! :p

(... now I just have to hope I don't get lumped into the wrong category :eek: :o).

[Crusher45]

It would really save a lot of the headache if we'd stop trying to come up with laws for every conceivable act that stupid people may do, and instead, call a spade a spade and simply outlaw STUPID!!! :p

(... now I just have to hope I don't get lumped into the wrong category :eek: :o).

You can fix crazy but you can't fix stupid!

[tanney]

You can fix crazy but you can't fix stupid! Ain't that the truth!

[Taylor]

Well the whole issue with uncomfortable drivers (obviously) is that they're tense and more prone to panicking and panicking is what'll get you dead more often than not panicking.

Problem is, if after x years of driving it is not second nature to you, you should not be driving. Get a bus pass (unfortunately the GTA has terrible public transit infrastructure). These are 3,000lb hunks of metal and flesh and bone don't stand a chance against them.

Though my road philosophy has always been to get past anyone near me. They crash behind me, I don't have to worry about it.

This is why I will not pace cars on the highway, ever.

Actually, something that hasn't been brought up about lack of action on safety by our government that is really undisputable is motherf'ing cell phones.

Holy crap. The people driving 20-30k under the limit and the ones rolling through stop signs and picking the wrong time to make a left turn more often than not have a phone in their ear. Ridiculous.

At least more cars are installing bluetooth standard these days... yey for industry saving humanity from itself... while systematically destroying it.

[feds]

I got tailed by a cop on his cell phone the other day. Probably calling for back up in case I tried to out run him in my Pathfinder. :rolleyes:

[thgear]

can i pull over an officer and make him write himself a ticket?

[Cap'n Pete]

can i pull over an officer and make him write himself a ticket?
Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Remember, police officers have special driver training :p. We just know how to go fast :rolleyes:.

[MazdaMatt]

Yeah, they have "basic advanced" training. (sorry steve, i laughed out loud when i read that one... pure gold. Thanks)

So... I consider myself a "driver". I am quite comfortable at speed... and I now regularly drive 95-100km/h on the 401 in the slow lane. I save about 20% in gas doing this instead of 125, and I've got to say... its cushy easy driving over here on the right. Try it out some time. There's no easier drive than 2 hours behind a transport truck from London to Toronto. No stress, no risk, saving money. I'm still on the ball and I'm quite capable of watching my mirrors for danger.

So Pete... how's that fall into your dangerous catagory? (btw, my kinetic energy is about 1/2, shortening my braking time and distance and allowing me to redirect my car more easily)

[Cap'n Pete]

So Pete... how's that fall into your dangerous catagory?
You're making the CHOICE to go slow due to budget (fuel mileage) ;). Big difference. You can tell when somebody is simply out of their element. Like Taylor described, nervous drivers act/react differently than controlled/competent drivers. They're twitchy, and they make questionable moves on the road. There's a difference between choosing to maintain the speed limit in the correct lane, as you're doing, and doing the speed limit 'cause you're freakin' terrified out there! :rolleyes:

(btw, my kinetic energy is about 1/2, shortening my braking time and distance and allowing me to redirect my car more easily)
Let's not start that debate, as it'll just lead me to revert to my comment of a few posts ago ;) (ie: park it).

[Taylor]

I would argue that maintaining a steady speed behind another vehicle for a 2 hour trip runs the risk of complacency.

I would be bored out of my mind and would then drift my attention from driving to ... I dunno.. punch buggy or looking for a pen in the glove box.

Driving at an elevated speed, for me, personally, keeps me far more aware than 'falling in line'.

Plus I'm just impatient and would rather get there 20 minutes earlier too. :p

But I hear you on the fuel economy. I'd been wondering for a while why my Fit has such lousy fuel economy (to what it's rated for combined...6.5L/100km) because when I look in the forums (populated by mostly americans) they're getting 40+mpg while I'm only high 20's (27ish... 8.5-9L/100km). Then it dawned on me, American's don't speed like we do here, it has to be because they're tuned for 95-105km/h.

Wonder if that's due to all the shock highway accident movies they were fed as kids. :)

[Steve Moore]

Hey Matt, glad you liked that. When I say Basic Advanced Training let me explain so you know exactly what they get. At the Ontario Police College they get classroom & practical on defensive driving, patrol driving, vehicle stops (Low & High Risk) then they also get Suspect Apprehension Pursuit training.

I remember back when I did it, we had a huge wok bowl on the hood of the caprice. They put a tennis ball in the bowl and then you had to pursue a suspect through an obsticle course without loosing the ball, you had to be smooooooooooooooth!

When we get them back to TO, they all go through our inhouse training, again classroom, practical and a skid car on our own track.

Now keep in mind our officers dont just concentrate on driving, they have to keep up comms on the radio, prepare for a bailout, being rammed or shot at.

Sorry I doubt youre idea of basic advanced driving isnt the same as mine. ;)

[George]

... a huge wok bowl on the hood of the caprice. They put a tennis ball in the bowl...

I recall reading something many years ago from Jackie Stewart about using the same technique at a performance driving school except they weren't in a Caprice.

[Steve Moore]

This is where the Taxi Enforcement idea started, NYPD does actually mark up the car as a cab as you can see. With all those yellow cabs in the Big Apple, you just have to behave or else.....

[Steve Moore]

Sorry photo didnt attach the first time.


2769

[GordRoss]

I remember back when I did it, we had a huge wok bowl on the hood of the caprice. They put a tennis ball in the bowl and then you had to pursue a suspect through an obsticle course without loosing the ball, you had to be smooooooooooooooth!



When I was growing up, I had a friend whose uncle had been a cop in England. His driver training involved the instructor sitting next him with a cup of tea. Same idea, but a failure would make the instructor quite testy:-)

Gord

[MazdaMatt]

It is good to hear that there is a well-rounded education... but how often does it happen? Bi-annually, annually, just once? Do they ever mention using signal lights in these classes?

As we all know, smooth is fast :)

Taylor... try it the next time that you have an hour+ drive somewhere. Also... consider how quickly the time passes when youwatch a tv show - that's more time that you're saving by using more gas and more risk.

I am actually SHOCKED that you can achieve such bad mileage in a Fit. You must be doing something really special (one pedal at a time, Taylor!). Hop over to www.ecomodders.com and read the top ten fuel saving tips. Most of them will get you to work in the same time and save you 10-20 bucks/week.

[Taylor]

I am actually SHOCKED that you can achieve such bad mileage in a Fit. You must be doing something really special (one pedal at a time, Taylor!). Hop over to www.ecomodders.com and read the top ten fuel saving tips. Most of them will get you to work in the same time and save you 10-20 bucks/week.

1) I'm not interested in hypermiling
2) I would bet cash money I'm right as to the cause of the really poor fuel economy in the Fit and it is undoubtably due to driving an avg in excess of 120+ km/h where most americans, by nature, drive within a couple miles of the speed limit.

I'm also not the only one getting poor fuel economy out of the car, I know some others, Ontarians, who are not getting anywhere near the stated average. I feel safe in assuming they're driving with the flow of traffic (or higher) which again would be around 120.

The car just isn't geared for it.

[Cap'n Pete]

What kills mileage for me is stop-and-go. If I can cruise at a STEADY ~120 (hypothetically speaking, of course ;)) both my Camaro and my Avalanche will get respectable mileage, for big, gas-guzzling V8's. However, throw some stop-and-go (aka: "city driving") onto the highway, and my mileage tanks. I'll literally lose ~1/3 of my fuel range per tank :rolleyes:.

[MazdaMatt]

Tay,

1) You don't need to "hypermile" to save gas. Many would argue that hypermiling is more dangerous than driving "standard agressive".
2) you certainly should be getting better than 30mpg cruising at *steady* 120. If you rush up on the car ahead of you, slow down and wait for them to move over or go around them, then rush up on the car ahead again, you aren't doing steady 120 and that would be the cause of your abysmal mileage.

Here is how I learned how to save 30% on gas...
While you drive, keep counting to 5. DO NOT change your inputs except on five. You will learn in about 2 minutes how to drive more smoothly without doing quick switches from gas to brake and back to gas. This increases all of your brakes to 5 seconds long, it makes you take a little longer to get up to speed or else you'll overshoot it before you get to 5. All this and you still have the same guy going gas-brake-gas-break in front of you, so you're not going any slower on average.

This isn't hypermiling, this is just saving gas and brakes by taking it easy out there.

[feds]

While you drive, keep counting to 5. DO NOT change your inputs except on five. You will learn in about 2 minutes how to drive more smoothly without doing quick switches from gas to brake and back to gas. This increases all of your brakes to 5 seconds long, it makes you take a little longer to get up to speed or else you'll overshoot it before you get to 5. All this and you still have the same guy going gas-brake-gas-break in front of you, so you're not going any slower on average.



I'm worried that people are going to read this, get in their cars, and go "1.2.3.CRASH". And blame it on information they got off of a racing site.

[thgear]

Hey Matt, there is that post at DDT with your name on it... were you counting then too? :rolleyes: (i kidd i kidddd)

i'll agree with Taylor, as consumers we shouldnt worry about such things, get in the car and drive normally, fuel consumption is what it is, and if its less than advertised by a considerable amount, then there is a problem.

[MazdaMatt]

Yeah, the problem is that you're not driving normally. You're driving aggressively. Other people can get 70+mpg out of the same car... they aren't driving normally either. You're asking the baseball bat to hit homeruns no matter how hard you swing it. The bat ain't broke, you're just not using enough steroids.

Anybody that thinks that car is responsible for the MPG should go back to grade 10 physics.

The idea of the 5-count is to make the correct decision at "1" so that you don't even NEED to change the input at 5. I'm not suggesting you close your eyes, just TRY to maintain till 5.

Har har... i wasn't hypermiling when i hit that post... i was just naturally slow!:D

Unrelated - i actually started counting two full seconds to turn the steering wheel into a turn... that got me out of my autocross habits of whipping the wheel over and greatly improved my mid-turn stability. Smooth is fast :)

[thgear]

i have been getting 9-10 L / 100km in my golf for as long as i can remember driving it...

aggressive, non aggressive, doesnt really matter, i dont actively think about these things. The advertised rate is for my car is 8 highway 10 city, so i'm well within the range, and i dont put-put around either.

the only time i bother is on my montreal or ottawa trips, where i just sit on the ass of some truck that is pushing 110 or something, and the most is i have gotten an extra 50km out of my tank, big deal.

a cars advertized MPG is (ideally) averaged out, and should be true

you would seriously have to beat down on your car to go over that, its not easy, "aggressive" driving in this case would be an understatement, as you would have to redline the shit out of your car non-stop during an entire commute.

[MazdaMatt]

Okay, so you get your cars rated FE and methinks you like to give it from the stop lights. His Fit took the EXACT same standardized test as your vehicle so what the hell is he doing to get those numbers?

Taylor... check your tire pressure and try slowing your inputs for one tank and using the highest gear that you can. You'll get your rated FE. If not, you need some kind of repair or re-training.

[Cap'n Pete]

Anybody that thinks that car is responsible for the MPG should go back to grade 10 physics.
Of course the driver plays a role, but sometimes, mileage "ratings" are dreamt up under the most ideal circumstances :rolleyes:.

With my old '96 Sunfire, my fuel range was from 425 kms to 675 kms per tank!! (yes, a 250 km spread! :D). That was the difference between red-lining shifts, city driving, or putt-putting, on the highway. My personal "average" was typically ~550 - 575. So, a 50/50 blend of city/hwy/red-line/putt-putt.

My Camaro, however, CAN get 500 kms/tank. However, in almost 7 years, I've only seen it TWICE. That's it. Seen ~450 a couple times. Heck, I've only gotten over 400 kms/tank maybe ~a dozen times? :rolleyes: My average is ~350-375/tank, and my lowest (goosing it everywhere) is 300. So a difference of 200 kms/tank (from 500 - 300).

Ok, but what's my point here? In the Sunfire, it wasn't "hard" to get close to its maximum mileage/efficiency. Even with city driving, as long as I wasn't silly on the throttle, I could still get "above my own average" mileage.

In the Camaro, it's damn near impossible to get over 400 kms/tank, even if I drive "nice" everywhere. Trust me, in ~7 years, ~125k, I've tried. Throw stop-and-go, and the mileage tanks.

So, back to your statement: "Anybody that thinks that car is responsible for the MPG should go back to grade 10 physics." You're right, it IS due to physics ... the physics of the CAR. The driver can only do so much.

Why do you think I've only seen 500 kms/tank TWICE? Because it took clear, empty highways, for 500 kms straight, with NO stop-and-go (aka: perfectly "ideal" conditions), which, in the GTA, is damn near impossible to find on a routine basis :rolleyes:.

In short: it was EASY to get GOOD mileage in the Sunfire, and took EFFORT to get BAD mileage. It's completely opposite in the Camaro. Now tell me it's "all about the driver" :rolleyes:.

[MazdaMatt]

Pete... you're comparing two completely different cars. One built to save fuel, one built to eat it. Compare your numbers from both cars with the EPA ratings (which, btw, are not magically dreamt up, they are scientifically dreamt up on a special dyno that provides various load/rpm based on the rated car weight, aerodynamics, etc and a "standard" driving loop).

[h-bomb]

Pete... you're comparing two completely different cars. One built to save fuel, one built to eat it. Compare your numbers from both cars with the EPA ratings (which, btw, are not magically dreamt up, they are scientifically dreamt up on a special dyno that provides various load/rpm based on the rated car weight, aerodynamics, etc and a "standard" driving loop).

It's called the UDDS and is run on a dyno at room temperature. Canadian climates weigh heavily in favour of burning more fuel than during that test. If in the middle of winter (or any time the ambient temps drop below or above 20) you are able to hit the magical number driving normally, you're doing well(which can be done using a smoother driving style than the test).

Also, for the highway test, the speed reached during the test NEVER exceeds 55mph. Good luck staying alive on the 401 if you drive according to the test :).

Hanif

[Cap'n Pete]

Pete... you're comparing two completely different cars. One built to save fuel, one built to eat it. Compare your numbers from both cars with the EPA ratings.
Matt, my point to that was in response to your "physics" statement, as well as this statement:

Taylor... check your tire pressure and try slowing your inputs for one tank and using the highest gear that you can. You'll get your rated FE. If not, you need some kind of repair or re-training.
So if my tires are good, and my driving is good, and my car is good (because it started from brand new) ... and I'm NOT getting my rated fuel mileage??? :rolleyes: ... then what? :rolleyes: Chances are, I'm getting close to the rating for city mileage. But rarely/never the highway rating.

All my point is, is that the conditions play into it a lot more than the driver does. Especially as car/engine size go up! If you can't get clear roads, free of stopped/slow traffic, you'll have a hard time seeing true "highway" mileage. And like Hanif pointed out, WEATHER has a big effect too. I notice my fuel economy go down-hill every winter, even on the tanks that I DON'T let the vehicle sit and idle to warm up for a long time.

[MazdaMatt]

Yes, your car burns more fuel in cold weather. Mostly this is due to warm-up times and the fact that during warmup your car generally runs rich. Of course, rolling through snow doesn't help your rolling resistance.

As for the highway rating... stop and go on a freeway is no different than stop and go in town... you can't expect highway rated mileage for stop and go driving. They aren't rating the road surface, they are rating the driving conditions.

Also w.r.t highway driving - if you maintained a STEADY speed above 55, you'd get better than rated mileage.

Quite frankly, if thousands of people who try can get better than DOUBLE EPA mileage, why can't you even get rated mileage? Personally, I get almost exactly EPA highway mileage tank after tank and I drive mixed 80km/h roads and London stop/go traffic. Slightly lower recently with cold winter and a bum EGR valve.

So... we're back to the driver. I'm not calling you a bad driver - your lap times prove otherwise. I'm just saying your numbers clearly show that you aren't an efficient driver.

Actually... i didn't crunch the numbers before i said that. So you say you CAN get 500km/tank. A quick look tells me that's a 53L tank and most people usually leave 10-15% in the tank when they fill up. So you've used about 48L in 500km, that's 9.6L/100km (not bad), and you're rated at 9.4 highway. Hell, you're actually doing pretty well for that car. So what's your complaint? Oh yeah... you rarely get 500 and more typically get 400... If you're city driving, that still isn't bad.

[MazdaMatt]

2 things
1) i punched in the numbers for the wrong year, so you do come up a little short.
2) havn't you got power mods on that car? Open exhaust and intake, cams? These things are great for high RPM power, not so great for fuel mileage.

[Cap'n Pete]

I guess what I was trying to get at earlier was, even with "city" conditions on the highway, I could still get close to "highway" mileage with my Sunfire. With the Camaro, not a chance. Not even if I TRY :rolleyes:.

But yes, 500km/50L of fuel is 10L/100km, which is pretty good for a "gas guzzler" ;). I think I normally get ~13 - 14 L/100km though. The truck is even worse! :o Oh, but no power mods. I had headers on the car for awhile, but they're back off again. They didn't make a difference +/- that I could notice.

............... so, how about those "cabs" on the roads anyway?! :p Anyone "hitched a ride" lately? ;)

[George]

I had headers on the car for awhile, but they're back off again. They didn't make a difference +/- that I could notice.

That's heresy and blasphemy and so on..lol

[Cap'n Pete]

That's heresy and blasphemy and so on..lol
Just in terms of mileage ;). They did improve the car's 1/4 mile time by 0.3 seconds and 3 mph though :). They also reduced its ground-clearance to less than 3 inches!??! :rolleyes:

[MazdaMatt]

...and Pete has learned that ground clearance is very important in a race car :)

I'll be in Georgetown this weekend... i'll see if i can spot the cabbie.

[a_ahmed]

Speeding tickets are literally highway robbery.

Insurance on the other hand is like organized mafia. Pay us protection money or else pay the consequences.

All these little money making fellows go hand in hand.

I just say look at the German autobahn and lets take some examples on how to build PROPER roads without potholes, cracks, craters, damaging elements in general... and also how speed feels.

[DaveCotie]

It is good to hear that there is a well-rounded education... but how often does it happen? Bi-annually, annually, just once? Do they ever mention using signal lights in these classes?

As we all know, smooth is fast :)

Taylor... try it the next time that you have an hour+ drive somewhere. Also... consider how quickly the time passes when youwatch a tv show - that's more time that you're saving by using more gas and more risk.

I am actually SHOCKED that you can achieve such bad mileage in a Fit. You must be doing something really special (one pedal at a time, Taylor!). Hop over to www.ecomodders.com and read the top ten fuel saving tips. Most of them will get you to work in the same time and save you 10-20 bucks/week.

My car (99 Volks Passat 1.8T) has both an average and a instantaneous fuel mileage indicator on the selectable display. It is one of the best ways, I have found to help you learn to drive as economically as possible.

With such a small engine in a relatively large car, it is geared pretty steep. It turns about 3200 rpm at 120 km/h. The drop in mileage from 100 km/h to 120 is significant. Areodynamics plays a huge part in this too.

[Taylor]

Halton police abandon cruisers that look like taxis (http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/637376)

The police folded to public pressure. Wonder if the Mayor is up for reelection? :)

[a_ahmed]

Good. Big brother draconian thirsty dictatorial wanabe losers.

[MazdaMatt]

The interviewed cop in the article said that it was a very effective tactic at reducing motor vehicle fatalities... I wonder if he has any stats to back that up (actually, i'm sure he's full of poop and he's just talking out his ass to the media).

I was wondering the other day why cops always speed. I figured they tell themselves that if they are not speeding, how could they catch up to the other speeders? You want to catch up to the speeders so you can give them a ticket... or you could simply do the posted speed limit and you have a double-edged sword against speeding: 1) nobody speeds past a cop 2) they set a positive example upon the people that they are there to protect and serve, rather than an "I am the law, so I am above the law" attitude. Too bad there are no ticket revenues for setting good examples and slowing down traffic.

At least this sniper tactic of revenue generation is dead and people will be seeing cop cars and slowing down. Personally, living in London, I may drive a little agressively in an effort to distance myself from a cabbie... they're crazy.

[spd-dmn]

i hate to keep bringing this back up... so im sorry.

but this is just too damn important to let go.


THIS is why we place such high value on due process: http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_34954.aspx

It is exactly why getting your car seized and your license suspended at the roadside by a police officer (with zero recourse available to compensate your losses if you are subsequently found not guilty) is extremely wrong and unconstitutional.

[George]

...It is exactly why getting your car seized and your license suspended at the roadside by a police officer (with zero recourse available to compensate your losses if you are subsequently found not guilty) is extremely wrong and unconstitutional.

That's just "fear mongering" if you haven't done anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.:D