Roll cage requirements

[mlab601]

Hello,

I'm a member of the CADL(solo 2) and LAPS(solo 1) in Montreal. Although I attend more Solo 2 events I am considering going with our club to the Shannonville event you are hosting on September 21st. However since I am not familiar with your rules I don't know if my car requires a roll cage. I sent an e mail to Mr. Sorensen a couple of days ago and I did not get an answer yet and I must take a decision on wether I can go by this Friday(Sept, 5). Here is the e mail I sent to Mr. Sorensen with all the details about my car and the modifications done to it. Hope someone can help me out with an answer before tomorrow night.

Thanking you in advance,

Mike


Hello, Mr. Sorensen,

I was wondering if you could help me out. I’m a member of the LAPS club in Montreal and my intentions are to go to the SOLO 1 event at Shannonville on September 21st. Here is my problem, nobody here seems to know how to classify my car and I don’t know under your rules if I need a roll cage. Needless to say I don’t want to drive from Montreal to Shannonville to be told I can’t compete. The other problem is I need to pay our club the event fee by this Friday at the latest so a quick answer is needed. I have downloaded your forms and these are the modifications that apply to my car. Before I start giving you the modifications done to my car you will need to know that my car is a 2002 Audi A4 (B6 platform) Quattro with a 1.8T engine.



Modifications according to your forms:



6.1 Engine & drivetrain - B.6 - Modification to cat-back exhaust on a turbo engine. = 2 points



C.2 - Chipping the ECU. = 4 points



C.4 - Fuel injector upgrade. = 1 point



D.1 - Modification to intercooler or water injection. = 3 points





SUB TOTAL = 10 points





6.2 Suspension & running gear - .3 - Non-stock alignment settings. = 1 point



.5 - Coilover system. = 4 points



.10 - Non-authorized modifications to suspension = 1 point



SUB TOTAL = 6 points



6.3 Body & trim - .8 - Non-authorized driver’s seat modification = 1 point



SUB TOTAL = 1 point



GRAND TOTAL 6.1 + 6.2 + 6.3 = 17 points





If I understand your rule about the need of a roll cage, only convertibles or cars that fit in the modified class need them.

I don’t think my car falls into the modified class but perhaps in the prepared class at worst. Since I don’t know where a stock A4 1.8T starts in your points system, I would kindly ask for your guidance.



Thank you,



Mike

[John Hannaford]

I think you'd end up in GT2 and the cage shouldn't be required, as long as you're on DOT Rs.

Messrs Pratte, McAuley or Sorensen would be the ones to answer this definitively.

[haniforama]

Mike,

Here is a link to the current rulebook

2003 Solo1 Rulebook (http://www.wiredmotorsports.com/soloontario/pdf/2003SoloIRules&Regs.pdf)

Your Audi start in Touring 2 at 50.3% PI.

Add you mods:

9 points for engine (after you jump one class or more, you exhaust is reduced by 1 PIP)
7 points for suspension (4 for coilover, 2 for shock, 1 for alignment)
1 point seat

Total is still 17 point.

Add those PIP's to your original 50.3% and you end up at 67.3%.

That lands you in GT3. Other GT3 cars include a host of modifled Civic's, CRX's, a BMW 325, Golf GT1 and a Triumph TR8.

Hanif

[haniforama]

Hmmm - i think i've got the starting class wrong since the Audi got a 20hp boost in 2002.

I'll leave it for the Classification guys.

Hanif

[mlab601]

Thank you Hanif for your help.

That's about where I thought my car would end up from reading in the rule book where the Audi is classed. Although I have the new A4 (b6 platform) the horse power rating remains the same at 170 hp from the factory like the previous model, the B5 platform. I will use the info you gave me to classify my car in GT3 and even if they decide to bump me up a class it won't really matter to me, I'm there to have fun! So if I'm in GT3 or if they bump me up to GT2 I have no need for a roll cage according to rule book, so I should be fine.

Just for your information, the B6 weighs more then the B5 and for all you mod fans out there, the 1.8T engine was modified to meet the stricter ULEV standards, so starting with the B6 it is much harder to modify this engine, you can not get anywhere close in power yet as all other 1.8T engines.

I might come down on Saturday afternoon so as not to get up too early on Sunday. Are there any hotels near Shannonville you can recommend or a web site for the area that would offer this info?

Thanks again and hopefuly the weather will cooperate with us on that weekend.

Mike

[haniforama]

Some of the SOLO crew hangs out at the Comfort Inn in Belleville:

Comfort Inn
Phone: (613)966-7703
200 Park St N, Belleville, ON

Hanif

[mlab601]

Once again, thank you Hanif.

[ScotcH]

Originally posted by haniforama
Some of the SOLO crew hangs out at the Comfort Inn in Belleville:

Comfort Inn
Phone: (613)966-7703
200 Park St N, Belleville, ON

Hanif

Also, a few of us (notably HADA and MCO) camp out at the track, so if you're into that, bring some camping gear!

[Christian Sorensen]

Mike,

Sorry!

My special 'solo 1 director' email account (solo1dir@casc.on.ca0)was down for the last week, apparently on account of the Sobig virus. I can always be reached with sorensen@actionfront.com

It is up now and I've just received your email request....

It appears that you have been given good advice on this forum.

First of all, rest assured that you do NOT need a roll cage in your car, assuming you'll be using DOT tires.

Second, since your car is not actually listed in our Classification Index, you ought to fill out our 'Application for Classification' and send it along with your registration so that the CCC guys can calculate a proper starting PI value for it.

Assuming that your car does start in T2 it is likely that it'll end up in GT3 given your listed mods.

However, if it is significantly heavier than the '99 model you may be able to sneak into GT4.... so how much DOES it weigh? (factory curb weight).

We're all looking forward to seeing you at the track!

Chris

[JohnC]

There's also a cheap motel not far from the track : Salmon River Motel, a couple guys usually crash there too. Clean, no roaches, basic - no food etc. either!

[mlab601]

Thanks John,

Funny thing, I was just told by someone here in Montreal to specifically to stay away the Salmon River Motel. I think the Comfort Inn is a safe bet unless you know something about that hotel.

Does anyone know if race gas, 100 or 103 Octane unleaded is available at the race track or in the immediate area?

Thanks,

Mike

[Dave]

sorry I didn't see this thread until now.

Mike, I've added a line to the official car classification spreadsheet for the 2002 Audi A4 1.8T, but I need to know if yours is equipped with the Triptronic gearbox since this adds over 100 lbs to the curb weight. For now, I've listed your car at 3406 lbs with a manual gearbox (it goes up to 3550 with the Triptronic). This along with the 170hp rating and a suspension rating of 60% (like the 3.0 2002 A4) results in a Starting PI of 54.2% in Touring2. Add 17 PIPs to this for all your mods and your car ends up with a Final PI of 71.2%, which translates to GT2.

However, I think it's entirely possible that your 1 PIP for the "non-authorized seat modification" could be covered under rule 5.11.6 where we allow ONE of the following: removal of the rear seats; removal of the front passenger seat; or replacement of the OE driver's seat with a reclining sports seat or fixed-back racing bucket seat.

I'm also a bit confused by your Suspension PIPs. When you say you have a coilover system on your car, does this include upgrades shocks as well as springs and the coilover collars? If so, you'll need to declare 7 PIPs total including the non-OE alignment and then 1 PIP more for whatever that other non-authorized suspension mod might be in subsection .10.

Anyway, it's looking like you'll be in GT2, which should be a really fun class for you to run in along with Jeff's Miata and Rob's Bimmer.

Cheers,
Dave

Car Classification Committee guy

[Rob McAuley]

Looking forward to seeing you on Saturday!

It would be a great idea to come in on Saturday, and watch the event. We do a barbecue, and I'm sure you'd be welcome to join us.

Hey - You could even come early on Saturday and run the event on the Fabi track.

There is no gas at the track. Most people hit the Sunoco station at Merryville Road, the first intersection east of Shannonville on the 401. If you're coming from the east, it is on the way. If you're coming from the west (Bellville), go past the Shannonville exit - then take the next exit off the 401.

The previous poster on this forum is Dave, the Chairman of the Car Classification Committee, so clarify your mods with him, and he'll get your car classed.

If you end up in GT2, you'll be running with me in my almost stock BMW 328is, Jeff in his super modified Miata, Les in his Integra Type R, Arek (ScotcH) in his Acura sedan, and likely a few others.

The times are always close, and Dave, who runs in GT3, is usually right on our tail.

You'll have a blast!

[mlab601]

Thanks Dave,

Not to play the Devil's advocate here but why would the 1.8T A4 with 170 hp, 168 ft/lbs of torque be in the same class as a V6 powered, 220 hp, 220 ft/lbs of torque car. Also if the B5 A4 as the same power as my car but weighs less( from various press articles), why would I not remain at the same starting point?
Just questionning the logic behind it. But it really doesn't matter, because I'm there to have fun.

To answer your questions I have the manual transmission and speaking of weight, I think 3406 lbs is too light for a B6 A4. My car, which is a bare bone A4 with only Xenons as an option, weighed in at 3350 lbs on the digital scales while doing the corner weights with 1/4 fuel, full spare removed, no jack ect, ect and with a racing seat in it(regular driver's seat weighs 65 lbs), so I guess I could be entitled to the section, 5.11.6 giving me back a point.

In the suspension department you are correct, I have a Bilstein PSS 9 coilover kit which includes shocks, my mistake.

Ok lets assume two senarios here, one with a 50.3% PI and the other at 54.2% PI, making both of these in the T2 class. I will let you gentlemen decide in which class my car should be.


MODIFICATIONS and PIPS

Modified ECU (chipping): +4

Modified fuel injection: +1

Modified intercooler system: +3

Non OEM wheel alignment +1

New type of shock absorbers: +2

Coilover kit: +4

Non-authorized suspension mods: +1

Sparco racing seat: +1

Turbo cat back modified exhaust: +2

Sub total: +19

Modified exhaust/jump in starting class: -1

Non-authorized seat/exemption rule 5.11.6: -1

TOTAL: +17

With a 50.3% PI + 17 PIPS = 67.3% = GT3

With a 54.2% PI + 17 PIPS = 71.2% = GT2

I hope I'm not missing anything here.

Please keep me posted.

Thanks,

Mike

[Dave]

Mike, our classification system is based on a weighting of 70% horsepower-to-weight ratio and 30% suspension rating, so the reason you could have a V6 220hp car in the same class as your car is that your car has a higher suspension rating (ie. it's a better handling car, which is admittedly a subjective rating though we have been using this for enough years now such that we've got the suspension rankings very well sorted out). The MS Excel spreadsheet that we use to calculate each car's Performance Index using these two variables is available for download on the solo ontario website. The classes that are created by this system have proven to be very competitive and closely fought. You also have to keep in mind that the V6 220hp car probably started with a higher PI than your car so it is likely far less modified than yours to be competing in GT2 with you.

The curbweight rating I've used for your car in the classification spreadsheet is from MSNauto.com (3406 lbs). Audi Canada's website lists the curbweight for your car at 1545 kg which converts to 3406 lbs, the exact number listed on MSNauto.com. So I believe this number is accurate, though if your owner's manual shows a different number I'd certainly like to hear about it.

So, with this curb weight data and the 170 hp rating along with the 60% suspension rating (which is, as i mentioned earlier, the same rating we've been using this year for the 3.0L A4 Quattro which is arguably a less nimble car due to the heavier front end) plugged into the spreadsheet we get a Starting PI of 54.2%, just as I posted earlier. The '99 A4 1.8T starts at 50.3% because of it's poorer power-to-weight ratio (and equal suspenion rating).
The spreadsheet doesn't lie :)

Your PIP total of 17 looks accurate to me (glad you spotted the -1 for the exhaust and the -1 for the seat) so your car is indeed at 71.2% and running in GT2, where I think it should be a very competitive machine. Obviously you'll be at something of a disadvantage from a track knowledge standpoint, but there will be lots of guys here who will happily take you lapping during the morning to show you their lines. Just ask and nobody will turn down the request, I'm sure!

Cheers,
Dave

[mlab601]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone here for the help, especially Dave that took the time to write to me at 00:36 this morning!

So GT2 is where I will be and that's fine by me. I would like to give you some info for your data base on the A4 for future reference. After doing some research I found out why your 1999 A4 as a 50.3% PI vs what you used for my A4 at 54.2%.

Up to and including the year 2000 model the 1.8t was rated at only 150 hp. The 2001 model, the last year for the B5, the car got a 20 hp increase to 170 hp. A 2001 A4 should be put in a higher class. All B5 Quattro models with a 1.8T and a manual tranny weighed in at the same weight, 1470 kg or 3241 lbs, which by the way is still 75 kg or 165 lbs less then my car, the B6 model. If you need additional info on the A4s, let me know and I would be glad to help out.

Thanks again and see you soon,

Mike

[Dave]

Hi Mike,

Happy to help. Your data for the B5 A4 1.8T does coincide with what we're using in the spreadsheet...150 hp and a curb weight of 3241 lbs. Thanks for your confirmation.

If you'd like me to e-mail you a copy of our classification spreadsheet so you can have a closer look at it, just drop me an e-mail at dpratte4@cogeco.ca and I'll reply to it.

Cheers,
Dave