Regional Solo II Results

[tanney]

Well, it's the end of another season and it turned out to be a great day for the last event of the season (except for those who got nabbed by the cops that decided that we were ripe for the picking on our way there..... buggers).

Considering the size of the lot, the course was very good. And with the exception of the person who decided that he was going to drive his mini van straight over to the arena, through the stop box and out onto the course (gee I wonder what all the cones are about!!!!!!!!!!!!) during fun runs, it was a great day.

The results have been posted, with the exception of the overall novice. The novice, as per the comments in the post drivers meeting, will be up in the next day or two.

For those of you who were there yesterday, was that not one of the most layed back events of the season or what? Good job guys and gals!

[tanney]

Also, Events #1 through #8 are now official!

[tanney]

Ok, one more thing.....

Congratulations to the CASC-OR 2003 Mobil 1 Solo II Championship Series sponsored by ActionFront Data Recovery Labs Series Champion Marshall Mclean.

Good job Marshall!!!!!

[Keith-02Accord]

Congrats Marshall!

Glad to see we had tight competition right up until the last event.

[Logan]

Great work Wes!
I know we've all appreciated your speedy work with results this season.

Please check your PM's.

Congrats to Marshall!

[tanney]

Results updated with a minor oops fixed.

[Nissan Racer]

Hehe, Ryan was driving a Chev. Mazda MP3...

[soloZ]

Yeah so was Steve hehe nice to see Chev making imports

[Marsh]

Thanks everyone. I certainly had a lot of fun this year. Especially having the number two overall competitor in my family, so that we actually effected each others scores.

BTW, it's not important but the results aren't showing gross totals at all. Both columns show net.

[tanney]

BTW, it's not important but the results aren't showing gross totals at all. Both columns show net.

Yes, but they were gross before we got to seven events. That's what the software spits out.

Victor is reworking the novice scoring and once I get the updated software (later this week) I will see if I can get that changed.

The import feature from Accucros (the software used for timing at most of the events this year) imports car year, model, name and times and leaves the other fields alone. I don't have the registration forms to double check all the cars. I will try and update those when I regenerate the results with the updated software.

Damn this is way too much work. I should demand a raise!

[Nissan Racer]

I vote they double what they are paying you now :D

[tanney]

smart ass!

[Peter Lejbjuk]

Congrats Marsh!

If you couldn't tell, I was trying to distract you last day after the fun runs so that the guys could pull a 'Stanley Cup Swipe' with your trophy! We failed, so we went for drinks instead.

Awsome season, thanks to all the Solo Admin for all the work they did.

-Pete

[Logan]

Originally posted by Nissan Racer
I vote they double what they are paying you now :D
You beat me to it!

[gatherer]

well 35th is good for my first year I guess ohh well next year the car will be in better condition .... and so will the classes... :p this was a learning year.

[Chris P]

congrats marshall!!

2 years in a row, guess somebody has reason to be cocky. Oh no, i can already see all the future cocky posts on this board already.......

[tanney]

Run times for event #9 have been added to the webpage.

[Marsh]

The last couple of events were interesting when Joe and Tom actually started looking at their backups. It think season would have been a little different if they had done it from day one. Admitadly I only did this year after winnning last year. Last year was a lot more luck as I never worried about a backup until the last event.

[ice/solo racer]

Marsh I couldn't help hearing you on sunday after your last run when you went for it after I believe a substancial rear tire pressure change was made-you were faster than Joe and were more than a little excited about it.Now wasn't that more fun than screwing around with a palm pilot and not wanting to go any faster so back-ups didn't get ruined?.
Thats the way I compete and sometimes feel after a great run,the hell with back-ups I say!!:p
BTW I watched the tailout sweeper entry of yours,not too bad at all-you might make a decent ice racer ya know!

Yep and a big way to go to all class winners and novices that came,saw and learned.For me I learned that there is such a thing as going too fast!

[Doug Phillips]

I went to fast on Sunday!

123 lowered to 114 in an 80. Crappp!!

Only 2 clean runs and until the five cones on Sunday I think I had 1 or 2 all year. I was lucky to squeeze out the C1 win.

[JoeT]

Franky I hated looking at backups, it takes away from the real reason we are there.

I kinda hoped that things would have been settled through competition rather than backups. But nevertheless, I had a great time this year, and am looking forward to my new classification next year.

FSP (Since there is no such thing as HSP) LOL

[Chris P]

Joe joe, in time you will see the other side of this....back up times rule.

Then again having a perfect score shootout would be nice but then your whole season rests on a handfull of runs, what if its a off day or something or one of the top people couldn't make it? I know Tony M suggusted something like this for SOLO 1 a number of times.

I think it would have been sweet if i drove a certin mustang in marshalls class at a event or 2 this year just to stir the pot. :cool:

[JoeT]

Chris chris chris, I understand what you are saying, and yes you should have driven the mustang.. LOL that would have been fun.

But, reality is, if by chance you get a good run and a good backup run in your first 2 outings, there is a decision you must take as a competitor, should I sandbag, or should I go balls all?

It's reality, and it happens. If you were in Bracebridge, there was an extreme case of this. It would have been more fun if we weren't forced (by the rules) to sandbag. Franky, I prefer just going out balls all for every run, and I would if if the rules were different.

Just my .02 cents. You know... :p

[Marsh]

The backup time system has merit. It introduces a slightly different ellement. The class winners are the fastest in their respective classes. The overall winner is the most consistent class winner. Or more correctly: The person that can drive consistently fast enough to win all day, every day. I do agree however that this isn't exactly the point of Solo. I would much rather just chase that fast run and spend the last run risking everything, but that's not how you win. (This is what I wanted to do in Bracebridge, but without the scoring change confirmed I couldn't risk it. Of course in the end I had to do that anyway just to save the event win)

[Chris P]

Joe joe joooe jo joe, But to be balls out will net perfect back up scores as the car will only go through the cones so fast. You just need to peak earlier in your runs and then there will be no fear of going sig. faster.........however if the course changes your fubared :eek:

[ice/solo racer]

I agree Marsh that back-ups do point to a driver that can run consistantly as being better than a driver can only get one blazing run in before everything goes to hell.
BUT thats not the point of solo2 at all,more importantly some guys may be fast enough to win in what may be a soft class and run great back-ups but may not be able to run any faster anyway.
Being able to drive fast enough to win all day,every day as you put it may not be enough one day if a hot shoe shows up or your car isn't perfectly suited to the course(whos is?)etc etc.My point is that if you can't continue to get faster than that either means that in the first 2-3 runs your a god or you need improvement.I see guys every event commenting on not being able to go any faster-but see them on course making the same mistakes again and again(and some of these guys are front runners or class winners).BTW I include myself into this group as well.
Marsh your comment about not wanting to risk the last run,because thats not how you win,I disagree as THATS exactly how you win IMO.
Your the guy with your name on the top of the list so I credit you completely,when I decided to try running regionals last year I never considered the overall as I was focused on the class win and let the overall do its thing.Never really thought I had much chance in class let alone overall.
When running solo1 next year backups will make more sense to me I think as being on track will seem more like road race to me-being able to hit your marks consistantly and running back to back laps with decent back ups will do wonders when/if I actually get to go road racing.
But with solo2-an hour or so between runs on a course never before seen-being able to go faster rules and backups don't really give a true picture of the drivers capabilities.

Krispy I'd rather run a shootout and risk a bad day then getting out back-uped.In my mind that seems a much fairer way to see who is a more adaptive and more importantly who is the faster driver.After all isn't what this all about?

[ShaneG]

I think Tom is onto something.

For Solo 2 we could look at some sort of pax # to see who is faster???

if you have three dogs in your class of 4 that you can easily beat then you are running for back up times and are never pushing for the absolute fastest time..which is IMHO the whole point .
(BTW, I am not for a split second, suggesting that this is the way Marsh, or anyone else, has won!!!!!!)

but pax therotically should tell us that a C3 doing a 40 sec is faster than a BSS doing a 36 sec run (pick your own numbers!)...using that theory then, it will tell us which "drivers" are really the fastest drivers, not the most consistent, that also means that everyone is driving against pax (for the overall championship), not just underfilled classes....hmmmmmm what am I missing, this seems too simple?

I would be curious to see the calculations, as it is beyond my feble math skills to figure it out

I am not sure where the pax numbers come from, so I am sure that might :rolleyes: be a bone of contention

[Doug Phillips]

Wes,

Any progress on the final Novice results?

[J.C.]

Shane Pax is not always the most accurate, especially when you go from a group B to C car since the lot may be to tight for group C cars. I think the best way to settle this would be in a shootout. Everyone gets 3 runs in there car and then swap cars with the other people they are tied with. At the end of all the runs take the fastest run you did for each car and add it up. The person with the lowest total is the best overall driver.

For a three way tie this would have been decided in less then 1/2 an hour. This eliminates any error PAX may have, underfilled classes or car advantages.

[ShaneG]

I agree that a shootout would be ideal, but that is yet another event...even if held at the last event of the year, maybe that is the event that one of the contenders has to miss due to other commitments.

the current shootout format would not work unless everyone who has qualified is only going as an "also ran" with no chance at the top prize...unless it is held in the 1/2 hr before the current shootout

I am not sure where we get the pax # from,and so can't comment on its accuracy, but over the course of the season we "should" be getting a variety of courses to even the playing field, and I thought that Pax is there to equalize the different classes,

I know underfilled classes have to use Pax to see where they score, why not do that for all classes (not for class wins but just for the overall)...Is Pax more unfair to one class than another? if BSS only had 2 cars:eek: Tom would be paxed for a score, assuming no propositioning...Taylor had to do the same for some of his events...If we think that Pax is a fair way to score underfilled classes, why would it not be fair to full classes? Am I missing something? :confused:

<- Shane, who is curious to see how many cars will be in his new class

[gatherer]

well I think a Pax point system along the lines of what are used for determining the nationals overall....

everyone is Paxed for overall standings and for the class standings no pax is used it's just you going for points against others in your class.... maybe the PAX numbers need to be revisited and compared with what's used in the USA or for the Nationals we know the classification system we had this year was not as up to date and as fair as say a SCCA or a national event, PAX could be the same thing.

[ice/solo racer]

Whoops,didn't mean to start a rehash on paxing!:D

Hey Joe your car will end up in FSP next year eh?Guess where my corolla will end up as well(with more prep points,so that diff is do able amoung other things)
I hope I still don't have the corolla in my possesion though,maybe the new owner(hopefully) will make things very interesting for you next year Joe.

[Chris P]

the SCCA uses data from the Nationals and revises their pax numbers on a year basis. I think PAX is too aribitary for most people and they don't want to rely on that.

[JoeT]

Hey Tom,

No worries... On the tight courses, the ole boat can't negotiate the tight channels, if you know what I mean. (For now)

I have a few tricks up my sleeve, it will be lots of fun.

Now, isn't that what competition is about?

[ice/solo racer]

Joe,you bet man thats exactly what competition is about!!:D

Your boat may be heavy but it'll out accerate my little light car out of a first gear hairpin no problem!:o
I'm looking forward to running a couple of solo2's next year with my rex,it should be WAYYY faster than my corolla(if my poor little brain can keep up that is!)just hope I don't kick my ass for going back to FWD.:(

[andrew1984]

REX?


RUH ROH...

[tanney]

Any progress on the final Novice results?

Just waiting on the software update. Victor was really good about it and is updating the software for us.

With HADA's Solo 2 event tomorrow and a road trip on Sunday to Woodstock, if I get the update, Monday!

Of course I could manually calculate it and post it........ Monday!

[Logan]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
Hey Joe your car will end up in FSP next year eh?
Thank god!
I recall reading something by Joe saying he was going to run DSP next year, which is where I may end up! I'm going to have a hard enough time with Marsh... If I go past DSS....

[Marsh]

Remember there is no propostioning under nationals. So wouldn't be surprised if we see a few people going SP to "run away" from someon. I have no intention of running SP. If for some reason I'm forced there, I'll likely part out the car and go back to stock. (Yuk don't want to do that!).

[ice/solo racer]

Andrew,in hondaspeak a rex is a "crx" Ummm to a VW guy its like calling a vw rabbit a "bunny" get it?

BTW what is"RUH ROH"?(I hope its not something I should have known and therefor look stupid!:o )

[roooo]

rex = rx-7

[JoeT]

rex= WRX also... :p

[MiG-29 Foxbat]

Rex / Rexie / Rexy can mean RX-7; so what would be the familiar term for a 240SX?

The answer would likely be Sex or Sexie or Sexy.

So, as Joe would say, "Hope this helps." :D

OK I'm going to sleep now...

[andrew1984]

Originally posted by Marsh
Remember there is no propostioning under nationals. So wouldn't be surprised if we see a few people going SP to "run away" from someon. I have no intention of running SP. If for some reason I'm forced there, I'll likely part out the car and go back to stock. (Yuk don't want to do that!).


ruh roh is a scooby, old man. :p

[roooo]

what would be the familiar term for a 240SX?


Well, it's normally called a Silvia ...... :)

[tanney]

Novice Results are up....

[Marsh]

Congratulations Doug! (isn't that wait for official results stressful...;) )

[Keith-02Accord]

Way to go Doug!

Also congrats to Shane and Julie!

[ShaneG]

Congratulations Doug!

edit: Hell, Congratulations to all of us n00bs:D

[Logan]

I'm pretty impressed with the novice results.
Particularly 3 of the top 5 running in the biggest class behind a guy who can drive a well set up car.

Congrats to everyone!

[ice/solo racer]

Way to go Doug,I remember you with the black CRX at PMSC events not that long ago(I think I was about 4.5 seconds faster than you at last years PMSC regionals!)-you've done well indeed.Its a steep learning curve for sure once a commitment to run the regional series is made!
Also a big congrats to all those newbies that keep the sport from stagnating-not just those did well in their respective classes.
I feel cheated,because I ice raced before autocrossing I wasn't eligable for rookie status last year:( Oh well guess I have to wait untill I run indy.formula 1,winston cup,busch or some other series that doesn't care what you raced before eh!:rolleyes:

[tanney]

I remember you with the black CRX at PMSC events not that long ago

Huh?!? Doug, tell me you did NOT do more than three Autocross events BEFORE the first Regional this year!

If not, you would not be considered a novice!

[Chris P]

Tom, i think you are still considered a rookie in SOLO 1


Wes, uh oh :eek:

[ice/solo racer]

Chris I checked the solo1 rules for rookie status,must not have competed in more than 3 solo1,stage rally,race,ice race,or be a past solo2 overall champion.
Bummer,like I said oh well.Not likely going to matter anyway as my crx is classed in supergrand touring 3,I don't think thats a good thing is it?I guess I should check to see what I other guys are currently running that class.

[ice/solo racer]

I just compared what other cars are in SGT3-looks like there will be another honda weasle to chase down a certain turbo 240!.I wonder if Z06's will be his only concern next year?:p

[Chris P]

thats a pretty high class, WTF did you do to the car.......

[ice/solo racer]

Chris the car is B16 powered so that starts as a gt3,when prep points are added for header,ecu,coilovers,bars,alignment,exterior trim,seat,side windows,interior trim,relocated battery I end up in SGT3 even after deducting the 3 points for the cage.
I'll have to decide if I want to prep for max in SGT3 or play around with -prep points for fire bottle & fire suit and put side windows back in add some cams and play in GT1.
Either way it will be a uphill battle to learn the tracks and try to be quick AND consistant which is my main goal.In any case it'll be fun I'm sure!:D (my wife wants to give it a try as well!)

[Doug Phillips]

Thanks everyone for the novice congrats. I wish I had asked about tire pressures before the fourth event. Ralph, maybe I could have given you a run for the C1 class. Thanks to Joe and Barry for setting me straight on the pressures.

My congrats to Shane and Julie also for a very close down to the last event competition.

[Doug Phillips]

Time to look at upgrading the Camaro to another class. After running the HADA event (no one in my classs) it appears that with the new PAX numbers I will be losing .2 or.3 seconds.

Marsh appears to be picking up about .3 and Tony McGrath picks up .4 (like they need it)! The stock Cooper looks to be getting almost 2 full seconds! Can that be right?

[Doug Phillips]

Wes, Ice Solo Racer has me confused with maybe Doug Logan or someone else. I have never even been in a CRX.

I did NOT compete before this year and the only Solo event I ran before evnet 1 in Picton this year was a test day with the TFBM club in the spring.

[Doug Phillips]

Wes,

You might want to look at the software again as the novice numbers posted are different then what Marsh's spreadsheet calculates and what I was expecting.

It should not change the novice results.

The Total and Net columns are also confusing. Presented the way they are these numbers are always the same.

[JoeT]

Originally posted by Doug Phillips
Thanks to Joe and Barry for setting me straight on the pressures.


No problemo dude... Any time. Now you have no excuses for next year, even medical excuses. LOL

:D

[Doug Phillips]

Any time?? Great.

I will be looking for more help at the Shootout!:p

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Doug Phillips
Time to look at upgrading the Camaro to another class. After running the HADA event (no one in my classs) it appears that with the new PAX numbers I will be losing .2 or.3 seconds.

Marsh appears to be picking up about .3 and Tony McGrath picks up .4 (like they need it)! The stock Cooper looks to be getting almost 2 full seconds! Can that be right?

Yes, but don't forget the Cooper still has 4 points to go in DSS, and I can barely catch him now. Basically I move to the equivalent of BSS, and you stay in C1. The Cooper moves it's root class to B1 and is allowed mucho points in BSS, or at least that's how I see it...

[ice/solo racer]

Yes Wes I did confuse Doug P with Doug L,sorry about the confusion.

[Sean]

how does someone go about getting involved in these regional/national competitions??? i'd like to get involved with a continuous competition rather than just running out to random solo 2 events (although thats fun as well!)

also, is there somewhere that i can read some laymen explainations regarding class rules... all i know right now is that im in the C1 category... i want to know what makes up this class, what changes to my car would move me from this class, and what class it would subsequently put me in...

thanks

[Marsh]

Sean, you can download the current rules from :
http://www.SoloOntario.com
You can find the national rules here:
http://www.cnacsolo.ca/rules.html


The current discussions are about us switching to a completely different rule set for 2004. I seems that we will be running CNAC or Canadian National rules for next year, which doesn't even have the same class structure let alone classes.

Current Ontario Structure - Short and Sweet:
Under the Current system there are 3 familys: A, B and C. A is predominently sports cars, like the miata, mr2, rx7, corvette, etc. B-family is lighter weight non sports cars, typically fwd and typically lower power, like Civics, Protege's, VW's etc, etc. C family is heavier and usually more powerfull cars, Mustang, Camaro, big BMWs, Trucks Egeal Talon etc. In each family there are three stock classes where 3 is the slowest and 1 is the fastest. Then each family has two classes for non stock vehicles they are Super Stock (SS) and Street Prepared (SP). Any car, from any family oves into a special class called Modified once they are prepared beyond the limit of SP in their given family. There are only two modified classes. B - Modified (BM) is basically for any car that used to be a street car and has been modified to all heck. A - Modified is the fastest class there is and is for prupose built race cars. If someone brought a formula car to a Solo-2 they would run A-Mod.

Because the current system classes cars in a linear system where each class is faster than another given class in it's family there are some scoring and classing tricks like propositioning and step-up that are relatively unique to our region. Propositioning occurs when the fastest car in a given class fails to go faster than a car in a slower class. If this happens that car cannot claim a win, but is instead scored against the faster car in the slower car. Example: You win your class with a 42 second run, but a Probe in C2 manages to pull a 41 second run. He wins and you get scored against him. Step-Up is a system where by a car in a lower class such as C2 can claim a small number of preperation points and step up to the faster stock class of C1 instead of just jumping to CSS.

National Rules - Short and Sweet
National rules are based on SCCA rules and are much different. The stock classes contain different groups of cars and there is no family system. The classes are simply in alphabetical order, and that order does not necessarily represent which class is faster. You for example would be in ES which should be faster than DS on some courses and slower the D or G stock on others. Also in the national rules you don't move to the SS class with the same later prefix. Since different cars improve different amounts with the same modification the classification in Super Stock and Street Prepared is often different. Because of this there is no such thing as step-up or Proposition in the CNAC rules.

National rules also treat modifications differently. Although both rule sets use a preperation point system, the national rules are a little more restictive on what you can and cannot do in a given class.


The other thing you will see discussed (especially by me since all WOSCA events are scored this way) is PAX factors. PAX is a class indexing number that is used for correcting times between classes. Look at the results from Sundays charity event for an example of this. You see that your best time is divided by a factor that is fixed for your class. The resulting factored time or paxed time is how the classes are compared. In the current regional system this is used only for unfilled classes (classes with less than 3 cars).