John Noble's crash

[gravlguts]

As some of you may have heard, John Noble took a bit of a nasty tumble today. I think I was the only person that caught it. The camera gods shone on me and I actually got a couple of great mid roll shots.

http://thegarageblog.com/garage/playing-pinball-with-an-ex-galati-audi-a4/

John is fine and towed the car to the shop before I managed to share these with him this afternoon.

[Steve Moore]

Glad to hear John is ok, thats the same spot Nick went into the wall with the Vette in 2006
Since when did a 2000 Audi qualify for G70?

[Noble]

Amazing that you caught those pics as it happened so fast. Not exactly a great and memorable moment in my racing history but great pics nevertheless. Thankfully, I am fine and the car looks repairable as the frame and cage appear undamaged.

[gravlguts]

I was rather surprised myself :)

[abrracing]

Glad to hear John is ok, thats the same spot Nick went into the wall with the Vette in 2006
Since when did a 2000 Audi qualify for G70?

I would agree with your question Steve! My car is 11 years older and I had issues last year lol
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[timewarp9]

Steve this is an invitational event, it is not run under VARAC, but by Time Warp Racing, and it is up to us to establish eligibility.

John was invited based on the fact he was a participant in 2006.

Jon

[abrracing]

That makes sense I figured as much lol. Ever thought of doing your own series................lol
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[Vicsr44]

Great pictures of an unfortunate event! Darlene & I were shooting in that spot about 5 minutes before & moved down to corner 8. Fortunately the damage wasn't as significant as it could have been & John was OK.

Vic

[gravlguts]

Thanks Vic - my pics were more lucky than skillful!

[Vicsr44]

No! No! When you get shots like that it was an excellent understanding of the features of the track, the light at that time of day, setting the camera up correctly & vast skillfulness! (At least that's what non-photographers think & we don't want to tell them otherwise!);)

The other thing to remember is if the front of the car you photographed is cut off then obviously the driver was going too fast; if the back end, then the driver was too slow - it's never the photographer's fault!!:D

BTW I take so many pictures because that way I might get one or two good ones. Then I delete all the bad ones - well most of them!

Vic

[dinomi]

The 2009 Gateway Centres Toronto Challenge is not a G70 Event. It is an Invitational Race, (as it was in 2006) put on by Time Warp racing. It does use some G70 rules (such as 13/13) for safety and driver conduct. From the comments from Andretti Green, the Indy Racing League, particpants, track workers and spectators, this format was well received and enjoyed completely. The cars are those that people recognize and sometimes drive or wish they could drive. it was fun and we had fun.

i am posting this just as a simple clarification since i know that some news releases and publications erringly described it as G70.



Dino Micacchi
Time Warp Racing

[Steve Moore]

Dino, seeing as you brought up the 13/13 rule, there were atleast two drivers at the indy who have now had two crashes within 13 months, does that now mean they are suspended for 13 months as the VMC rule states???

Who in VARAC monitors this??

[Vicsr44]

I wonder, since this was an invitational race not run under the umbrella of VARAC, if any incidents in the GT Challenge could be used against a driver in relation to disciplinary procedures within VARAC. A similar situation could occur with a Porsche club race weekend. Could a driver who races in these events be subject to 13-13 discipline if they had two accidents at Porsche events yet none in the VARAC events?

Based on experience with other sports I would think not but I raise this point for my information only.

Vic

[timewarp9]

VARAC does not issue licences so cannot issue a 13/13. CASC Stewards have that responsibility and power.

13/13 is not exclusive to Vintage racing it exists in the CASC rule book for all drivers under Appendix S. It is not called 13/13, but it has the same effect.

The difference is that GT drivers accept some contact as they are trying to get on the podium, whereas vintage drivers are showcasing the car and winning is not that important.

At least that is the general belief. So if two cars bump, and if neither one reports it nothing is done. If one assumes the other is driving aggressively or dangerously and reports it then action is taken.

So Steve, if someone has had two contact incidents and the other driver does not report it, then it might as well as not have happened.

I have not recieved any reports from the Toronto race, so I would assume that no reports were filed.

Jon

[Steve Moore]

Jon if you check the Rules with the Vintage Motorsports Council it is the responsibility of the DRIVER to self report any 4 wheel off's, spins and contact with other cars or armco.

The excuse that VARAC doesnt issue licences is an easy out. What is the purpose of a Driver Conduct Committee, if you think you are powerless.

VARAC has the right to deny entry to their event and communicate any penalties imposed to other race organizations so that they may be enforced.

I have been involved in Vintage Racing since 1985, I have seen more than a dozen drivers sent home for aggressive or reckless driving in the States, but never here in Canada....why?

Personally I find the level of vehicle control and contact up here in VARAC unacceptable and that is excactly why we chose not to run at the Indy event.

At the Festival there were several drivers going off track and hitting things, I was even told by one driver to stay away from "that guy" he has had a couple of crashes already this year.

What is the point of a 13/13 rule if we the drivers do not honour it or enforce it. I dont believe it is neccessarily the responsibility of the stewards or marshalls to follow this up or file reports.

We need to respect each other's safety out there as well as the value of our cars, some belong in museums and cannot be replaced.

Here's an example off a VMC site:

*Vintage Racing is not about racing, but driving the cars fast and safe. If you have to beat someone at all cost, then you do not belong in Vintage Racing.
*Driving with the 7/10ths rule: You should only drive at 7/10ths of your and the cars ability.
*13/13 Rule: If you have an Incident, you are on probation for 13 months. If you have another incident within that probation period, you are suspended for 13 months. And forget going to another organization. While they are all independent, they do recognize the danger of having bad drivers jump from one club to another so most clubs have joined with VMC licencing and enforce all 13/13 penalties.


Frankly your response as a fellow vintage driver and organizer concerns me Jon.

[timewarp9]

Steve, you sound like a perfect candidate to volunteer to run our driver conduct committee and interface with VMC and CASC to get things the way they could be, then you have nothing to be concerned about. In the past we had Bill Hirst as the VMC rep.

Several drivers have been issued warnings and others have been reported to VMC. You may not have been aware of this.

With regard to the Indy, as I said I have not received any reports from the Stewards to date.

So why not think about being on the committee? I will gladly give up my seat and stick to just eligibility.

Jon

[gravlguts]

Given the direction this has taken, I thought the post I put up tonight is a perfect fit.

Assertive driving 101 circa 1966:

http://thegarageblog.com/garage/stay-away-from-that-guy-or-hell-hit-you/

[Steve Moore]

Count me in Jon, anything to make our sport safer.