ATTS - Event 2 "Time Attack"

[JoeT]

Hi All,

Here's your opportunity to experience what it's like to participate in Solosprint, it's a challengine competition that's 1/2 way between a solosprint and lapping day. The day consists of lots of track time, lapping and a single "Holy Grail" run at the end of the day.

As one of the prizes of the day, the ATTS will be giving 1 solosprint event as a draw prize. In addition to that fantastic prize, Royal Purple will be giving away Whole Cases of Oil of your choice, plus Go Pro Camera's, Hawk Brakes. Plus you'll be earning points towards the remaining ATTS series which enables you to win part of the $12760.00 worth of prizes, including Toyo Tires.

Event 2 of the JRP / Toyo Tires / SPDA Attack Time Trial Series will be held at Mosport DDT. Simple Rules, Simple Classes, Lots of track time, Lots of fun!!!

http://www.attacktime.ca/img/atts_timea_lrg.jpg

Date: July 26, 2009
Location: Mosport DDT

Event Timing:
Registration / Scrutineering: 7:30 – 10:00
Drivers Meeting: 8:45
Track open for walk: 8:20 am (Must register first)
Practice Runs: 9:30 – 12:10
Marshall Lunch: 12:10 – 1:10
Practice Runs: 1:00 – 2:15
Competition Runs: 2:30
Event Awards @ 4:30

The DDT provides a challenging track layout with multiple configurations available. The SPDA has selected a configuration which will benefit both the High Horsepower cars as well as the stock vehicles. Determining the ultimate winner for this venue will be dependant on the driver.

This event counts towards the accumulation of points towards the ATTS series and at this point, the series is up for grabs. Some top placing competitors from event 1 may not place favorably giving away valuable points. Join the ATTS Time Attack and make your mark.

Advanced registrations have been received, and there are currently 57 registrations.

Reserve your spot today by following the instructions here: http://www.attacktime.ca/registration.htm

ATTS - Event 2

It's Time!!

[JoeT]

70 Registrations so far!!

Interesting stats:
60% newcomes to the sport
25% Autoslalom veterans
15% Solosprint and other CASC Disciplines

Nice to see so many new faces into the sport.. CASC / Solosprint was awesome to work with in putting this series together, some of the prized for the weekend inlcudes 1 free solosprint event. CASC worked with Solosprint as well to waive certain fees, hopefully this attracts more people to the mix and we keep on filling the funnel!!

Two thumbs up for Chuck, Scott and the crew.

[Burnsey]

Regarding spectators, are there any particular rules/fees/wrist bands/etc?

Won't have time to drive at this event, however if I can un-chain myself from this desk I might come out and play photog for the day...

[JoeT]

Regarding spectators, are there any particular rules/fees/wrist bands/etc?

Won't have time to drive at this event, however if I can un-chain myself from this desk I might come out and play photog for the day...

Spectators are free, just come to the registration booth and we'll give you a wrist band after you sign the waivers. We can send you bolt cutters or torch to unchain you.. LOL

[JoeT]

Ooops my bad, forgot to mention:

Sponsors for the event has kept the price of admission extremely cheap at only $75.00 / driver.

Parmedics on site
Tow vehicle
Mosport Marshals will be doing all the flagging duties

Lots of practice laps, with one hail mary run!! woohoo!!

[-bbTeg]

Very much looking forward to tomorrow, hopefully the rain isn't too bad.

We running clockwise or counter clockwise?

[JoeT]

Clockwise, picture is in the link below:

http://spda-online.ca/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4919&forum=38

Should be fun.. Muahahahah.

[-bbTeg]

Excellent, ran this configuration when I was at the Bridgestone Race Academy back in May. It was pouring then as well.

[Burnsey]

We can send you bolt cutters or torch to unchain you.. LOL

HA!! Please do!

Second question - I'm guessing that packing a lunch will be a good idea? Foraging in the woods of Mosport could yield more empty Labatt 50 bottles than actual food...;):p

[JoeT]

Nah, the snack shack aka Heartburn Hotel will be open for your culinary gourmet delights.

They will be serving their usual compendium of tasty charred carcass of various mixed species, sometimes all at once in a mystery cocktail medly called a Hot Dog, aptly named.

Served with a side of 10W30 synthetic / organically prepared prime spuds from the hinterland, freshly unfrozen and par fried prior to cryogenic suspension.

Yes a koleidascope (spelling ugh) of flavours await to saturate your lower intestines.



HA!! Please do!

Second question - I'm guessing that packing a lunch will be a good idea? Foraging in the woods of Mosport could yield more empty Labatt 50 bottles than actual food...;):p

[max attack]

Just saying thanks to all that it takes to put on the event,had a blast today and so did Lisa.

I haven't had much luck go my way this year but did during the timed run when I somehow managed to shift from redline in 2nd to 1st-not once but twice mind you(what a newb:o)and didn't scatter engine bits all over the place.
Even have the vid(kinda crappy but a vid nontheless)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shokDBdGCYY

[TOYSRUS]

Cool underwater camera work :)

And a thankyou to Joe and the gang from me, had a blast an am looking forward to Event #3!

[CaperRacing]

Great event and first track experience, thanks to all the organizers!

[Slowpoke]

I haven't had much luck go my way this year but did during the timed run when I somehow managed to shift from redline in 2nd to 1st-not once but twice mind you(what a newb:o)and didn't scatter engine bits all over the place.

That's funny... Honda motors are quieter at 10,000 RPM than they are at 5000rpm. ;)

I was clerking that session and I was worried about the gap closing between you and Mike. Then on the west straight "Oh, it looks like he fixed the gap!" I didn't know why though!

[JoeT]

Hi All,

Thanks for attending, it takes a huge amount of organization and concerted efforts to put something like that together. The audience and the format is new for most that attended, meaning that there were lots of potentials for organization errors. We took the lessons learned from event 1 and applied them here (except for the microphone battery) and from the perspective of the organizers, seemed to function well.

We're looking for feedback (good and bad) on how we can improve. The net result will be a better, more fun, more exciting event for newcomers. When submitting suggestions, please keep in mind the context. The ATTS series is intended to attract newcomers to the sport that we all enjoy.

Gymkhana = Autoslalom
Time Attack = Solosrpint
Touge = ASN Lapping
Drag = (Not CASC or ASN) but as the teaser / draw to get a greater variety of people.

The official results will be posted on the SPDA and www.atts-online.ca web site within the next couple of days. But until then, here's some interesting stats:

Here are some stats:

70 Advanced Registered competitors
60 Acutal competitors
58 running, 2 out due to mechanical (Mike A and I)

3 X 20 Minute lapping sessions for 4 classes
1 Time attack session for 4 classes (2 warmup + 1 HOT + 1 cool down)

Prizes for the day:
1st Place Royal Purple Oil X 1 Case + 1st Place Plaque / Class
2nd Place Royal Purple Duffle Bag + 2nd Place Plaque / Class
3rd Place Royal Purple Hat + 3rd Place Plaque / class

Draw Prize Giveaways
Sprint Booster ($300.00 Value)
HAWK Pads ($200 - $500 Value)
Talon Tire Gift Certificate ($100.00)
1 X Solosprint Entry ($150 ish)

FTD: 60.828 Clockwise configuration with 1 kink on the south west.

Incidents = 0
DNF's = 2
Fun Factor 100%

A HUGE Thanks goes out to the competitors, since without you there would be no event. You guys braved the potential adverse weather to come out and enjoy the day. Luckilly for us, the Marshals and everyone I spoke to except for Klaus, had a conversation with Mother Nature, and she cooperated with a bit of concession.

Sunny and dry in the morning, very WET during the lunch break, sunny and dry during the afternoon sessions. It couldn't have turned out any better than that.

Also a HUGE thanks to the team members that put this together, whom without, would have made it impossible to assemble this event.

Lastly, a double HUGE thanks to our sponsors, JRP, Toyo Tires, Talon Tires, Hawk, Royal Purple, Forge Motorsports, Apex-I, Vibrant Performance, etc.

Next event is Dunville Autodrome in 1 month, with Touge.

Up for grabs still for series points = over $10K worth of stuff.

1st overall = $3000 in product + Series Trophy
2nd overall = $2000 in product + Series Trophy
3rd overall = $1000 in product + Series Trophy
4th overall = $750 in product + Series Trophy
5th overall = $750.00 in product + Series Trophy

[max attack]

Cool underwater camera work :)

And a thankyou to Joe and the gang from me, had a blast an am looking forward to Event #3!


Funny how it only looks underwater when not moving,I guess its the video stablizing thingy trying to work while my homebuilt mount constructed in about 15 minutes shakes the heck outa it.

[Tashko]

Cool underwater camera work :)


Lol, it looks like the windscreen came from a fun-house mirror shop...I need to watch that after a couple drinks! :)

It seemed to settle down a little with a blip of the throttle, maybe voltage related?

[max attack]

Nah,you can see the camera shake when idling and smooth out when the revs come up.Its bolted directly to the dash with no isolation for vibration,have you noticed the theme for the car-its ghetto baby!,:D

[-bbTeg]

For someone not quite ready to make the leap to solo sprint, I have to say that these events are excellent at filling the gap between just doing lapping days and not wanting to commit to the expense and preparation required to go to the next step.

Due to this series, I am giving serious consideration to running solosprint next year as a consistently competitive environment is much more rewarding than simply doing lapping days.

As far as my feedback based on how yesterday went, I don't think there is honestly much more to ask for. I took advantage of the 3 sessions to their fullest and managed to log about 70kms of track distance.

What would be absolutely ideal would be to turn this into a sole time attack series which would encompass TMP, Dunnville, DDT and Shannonville. I have to admit I am not entirely thrilled with the format of the remaining two events although I am sure they will be fun.

From a sponsor's perspective this may be better as it may be advantageous to have the cars out running longer, more often, wearing parts out sooner http://smiliesftw.com/x/hsughcool.gif

I would also like to see more product representation and possibly even the ability to purchase items at the track.

Lastly, for the extremely new and uninitiated to the track, perhaps some simple tech sessions on how to prepare the car (bleed brakes etc..) would have been good to know from someone who knows what they're talking about rather than "I read on the internet..... I know this would have been a big help to me a few years ago.

A big thanks to all the organizers and also to the sponsors who make this series possible and practical on a budget. $75 for the event yesterday is just an absurd amount of value.

[Kreutz73]

cool video Tom.... chasing Mike for your whole hot lap!

That was an awesome day! I was surprised that my car actually runs cooler when lapping than in autocross. The heat soak at idle just kills me.... but get some air moving through the rads and it seems ok.

First lapping/solo 1 experience I've had and I'm still smiling. a) I sucked at it... b) I was no where near prepared (ignorance mostly)... c) my car was no where near prepared (ignorance again)... but it was awesome!!

I'm hooked and really looking forward to getting another ass whooping at dunnville!

Great event! Great series!! Great job SPDA!!!!

[max attack]

cool video Tom.... chasing Mike for your whole hot lap!

That was an awesome day! I was surprised that my car actually runs cooler when lapping than in autocross. The heat soak at idle just kills me.... but get some air moving through the rads and it seems ok.

First lapping/solo 1 experience I've had and I'm still smiling. a) I sucked at it... b) I was no where near prepared (ignorance mostly)... c) my car was no where near prepared (ignorance again)... but it was awesome!!

I'm hooked and really looking forward to getting another ass whooping at dunnville!

Great event! Great series!! Great job SPDA!!!!

Thanks Paul,wish I'd had the camera on for the wet practice when you spun RIGHT in front of me-as we went by Lisa said your eyes were really really big.:)
Btw great job on controlling the car after the spin,if you'd have let the car turn again across the track I'm not sure I wouldv'e been able to miss you-which would've sucked way more for you than me.
You sucked??,I heard you'd run a 61.xx and if so I think thats far from sucking.Who got the ftd?.

[JoeT]

FTD was by a "Slowpoke" running a 60.828 drivine one of those pesky Subaru's... LOL (SteveD)



Thanks Paul,wish I'd had the camera on for the wet practice when you spun RIGHT in front of me-as we went by Lisa said your eyes were really really big.:)
Btw great job on controlling the car after the spin,if you'd have let the car turn again across the track I'm not sure I wouldv'e been able to miss you-which would've sucked way more for you than me.
You sucked??,I heard you'd run a 61.xx and if so I think thats far from sucking.Who got the ftd?.

[MazdaMatt]

Okay, I've got to ask... if this was a full series, would it be better than solosprints? (I'm asking competitors Joe, you can turn off your inner salesman for this question :))

What is better/worse than solosprints?

[TOYSRUS]

I'm hooked and really looking forward to getting another ass whooping at dunnville!



I think I may have a can of that somewhere....let me check:D

[Maddog]

Anybody got some pics? I know I saw a few people with big azz camera's shooting around the track. :)

[Parker]

Great event, it was boat loads of fun... lots of track time throughout the day between practice and open lapping at the end. It was similar to a lapping day but I really enjoyed the competitive edge to it... doing the hot lap was an awesome feeling!

My XP-10's did a good job of cooking my front calipers from gold to a brown/copper colour. After session 2 they were still smoking when I parked after a cool down lap and a couple loops around the circle!

As for session 3, I am way too greedy to be pushing it in the wet and ended up completely off the track.

[Slowpoke]

Darn it! I left the video camera at home on my desk that morning!!! And the GPS logger cable with it! ARGH! I'll try to describe my line in words if anyone is interested...

I thought I had run this configuration earlier this spring but I was wrong. I have NEVER run this complete configuration. Last time I ran the outside SE line was 2004 at a Fourstar Motorsports (http://www.fourstarmotorsports.com)track day before I really learned to drive. So lunchtime rain lapping was a REALLY new experience to find that fastest route through there!

For anyone new to the track, here's the (Nascar-style) track map that I learned from the Ian law Car Control Track School (http://www.carcontrolschool.com/) in 2004 or 2005:

DDT Rule #1: If you have any kind of horsepower, late apex onto / off of the top and bottom straights. That crap that the corners are patched with has NO GRIP and you want to be on the throttle as soon as possible. So cut across the patches as soon as you can and spend as few feet as possible on them.

Assuming that the track is dry, and that your Royal Purple (http://www.royalpurple.com/)oil temperature is up after the Hawk Performance (http://www.hawkperformance.com) warm up laps to get heat into the brakes and Toyo Tires (http://www.toyotires.ca):

Turn 1 for horsepower cars: Late apex and don't track out more than 2/3 or else you'll compromise your entry for two. Power through on those Toyo Tires (http://www.teamtoyo.ca)and sacrifice turn 1's exit for turn 2 entry because turn two's exit lasts a lot longer than turn 1. And turn 2 matters more. (Low HP momentum cars, you can track out in one as long as it doesn't compromise your ability to be flat through two.)

Turn 2: Be nearly on the right inside grass for the left turn entry to turn 2b (2a doesn't matter) and turn a bit late for this. If your right tires aren't nearly on the right side grass before turning in, you're going too wide in 1. Goal is to be flat on the throttle past the apex to carry speed to turn 3. Scott @ Can-Alignment's (http://www.canalignment.com)setup had the fresh Talon Tire (http://www.talontire.com)supplied Toyos sticking as the car settled and stayed flat out from just after turn-in to the braking zone for turn 3.

Turn 3: A tap or a lift to settle the car, and late apex it... inner curb doesn't matter until you're on the downhill. Use the right curb for your braking and turn in for 4.

Turn 4 (left past the clerking / marshal station): Get as close to that inside cone as you dare, then once past the apex nudge her right and get back flat on the throttle straight through to 7.

Turn 5 right: Hey! No cone! Use that HotBits (http://www.hotbits.ca)rally inspired tarmac suspension with the wonderful fast compression dampening and 5mm thick strut walls to absorb the impact without a blink as you cut over that new extension of the right inside curb!

Turn 6 (gentle downhill right): I didn't track out more than half way past turn 5, so I cut the inside of turn six and dove straight for the turn in point of Turn 7 onto the back straight like Bob Varey taught me to do at the BMW Advanced Driving Schools (http://www.trillium-bmwclub.ca/site/page.jsp?DriverTraining)in Turn 8 on the Big Track. The same short cutting and momentum approach concept applies here, and you shouldn't be on the outside curb coming down the hill.

Turn 7 (onto the back straight): Surprisingly, this divebomb line into 7 has phenomenal braking grip even in that crazy slippery wet lunchtime organizer session! The Toyo's (http://www.teamtoyo.ca)were hauled down by the Performance Friction (http://www.performancefriction.com)97 compound pads from Dan @ FourstarMotorsports on the rotors that JRP (http://www.jrponline.com)supplied to me at their usual amazing price! With the caliper piston venting and knockback springs done by KVR Performance (http://www.kvrperformance.com), brake fade hasn't been a concern for years. I just stand on the brakes as needed.

Late apex onto the back straight cutting the back side of the inner curb to stay off that chewed up concrete patch. Start slamming through the Marino's Subaru (http://www.marinosautogroup.com/)gears with that bulletproof Bully Clutch (http://www.bullyclutch.com/)and use the massive racing torque of that Fourstar Motorsports (http://www.fourtstarmotorsports.com)tune to short shift down the back straight.

Turn 8 right: Silly braking in the wet leaving the back straight, eh? If your suspension can handle it, get your left tires up on the left rumble strip for braking and pitch the car in to the right and get on the gas fast to oversteer slightly and cut the low inside curb as close to the cone as you dare and climb that right hander as quickly as possible. Don't force the car right immediately. Clip the left edge as you straighten the curves and head up for turn 9 left.

Turn 9 left: Follow Ian Law (http://www.carcontrolschool.com) instructor James Mewett (master of the DDT ;) ) and you learn to get far to the right (Nice new for 2009 paved asphalt extension here!), stay on the throttle with your right foot, give the brake a tap with your left foot to weight transfer forward and (horsepower line) late apex over the newly Mosport lowered inside left curb as close to the cone as you dare. Don't track out more than half-way if you have horsepower, or it will compromise your speed into 10 and consequently all the way up the back straight. Get on the gas flat at the late apex of 9, and don't lift until you're braking for the front straight.

If you're a momentum car, you might not lift after the back straight, or just do a gentle lift (no brake tap) and go geometric apex here and track as far out as you can as long as it doesn't hurt your ability to be flat on the throttle past turn 10 apex and all the way to the front straight. If you have to lift for 10, don't exit that wide in 9.

Turn 10 right: Wave to the marshal from MMS (http://www.motorsportmarshalling.on.ca)as you clip the new low concrete extension on the HADA Motorsport (http://www.hadamotorsport.com)line that Guillermo showed me with your Hotbits coilover suspension (http://www.hotbits.ca).

Turn 11 right West kink/hump: Tighten your sphincter on approach, look where you want to go at the Turn 12 braking zone, turn in late, clip the inside and have faith that she'll stick after you crest the hump. Scott @ CanAlignment[dot]com (http://www.canalignment.com)measured my minimal bump steer during the corner balance he did for me, so I knew she wouldn't get squirrelly before she settled into the incline before the braking zone onto the front straight.

Turn 12 right onto the front SPDA (http://spda-online.ca) ATTS (http://www.attacktime.ca)timing straight: Late apex, right wheels up on the concrete curbing, and Subaru (http://www.marinosautogroup.com) second gear power through the timing beam.

And that's been a SPDA-online.ca (http://SPDA-online.ca), in stock at JRP (http://www.jrponline.com), ATTS (http://www.attacktime.ca)lap of the DDT, Driven to Perform by Toyo Tires! (http://www.teamtoyo.ca)

Thank you all for coming!

[Caveman]

Well Steve, that was like a Snap-On Seminar.
Half sales and half tech
I must say well done sir.

May I request your copilot expertise for a couple of laps at the next event
so I might learn the proper line.

[TOYSRUS]

or perhaps post pertinent info like this BEFORE the next event!:D

[bsclywilly]

Entertaining and informative write up Stephen!

Have you guys come across this site Trackpedia.com (http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Dunnville_Autodrome)?
A great place for info like this.

Thanks tot he organizers for another great event. I enjoy the different format compared to typical AX and solosprint events. And the prizes and giveaways thanks to the sponsors are a bonus.

[Taylor]

Okay, I've got to ask... if this was a full series, would it be better than solosprints? (I'm asking competitors Joe, you can turn off your inner salesman for this question :))

What is better/worse than solosprints?

I didn't participate in this particular time attack but I suspect it would be a lot like most other proper time attacks in the problem exists where if all things are equal for drivers, the issue is having a competitive car.

Solosprint has a number of classes.. 11? compared to I think a typical 4 or 5 in Time Attack. I think winning a proper Time Attack event is more about picking a platform and throwing dollars at it for a competitive car, where Solosprint you can run what you have and be pretty competitive or throw a few bucks into it to optimize your car for the class it falls in.

Also not a knock on whomever ran this particular event, but I suspect it was lacking in an equivalent percentage of experienced and accomplished drivers to a typical SoloSprint so I wouldn't necessarily guage your performance in Class FWD Low HP (or whatever they're called) against 4 or 5 similarily inexperienced drivers or autox cars to mean anything in the grand scheme of things compared to running in a 10-15 car class (GT2 thru GT4? in Solosprints) of seasoned drivers.

So in Competition terms, I think it depends on what you're driving and your aspirations for accolades and competing more against the drivers than their cars.

If you're just looking for fun, go where the value is or where you think you can learn the most. Lapping days are good for seat time too, but you won't learn a whole lot if you don't have someone better than you pushing you to do better (be it technique or times).

[Taylor]

Otherwise, this single time attack instance event in our smallish community of motorsports competitors (what? Maybe 200-250 in Ontario) is ideal in this sort of series of events that are a bit like a shootout where it's understood some cars/drivers will excel in one event vs another making the broad range of cars and car setup in any single of the 4 classes less of a sticking point.

I think the people with the money that otherwise would run US time attacks with a couple dozen properly prepared cars for those 4 classes, here, run Regional Sprints or CCTCC. I think those types of series are probably a bit more affordable to run in Ontario than say California. Or rather the issue may just be you go where the competition is, if Solosprint disappeared, I have little doubt it would be Time Attack replacing it but it could take a while to gain a proper competitor base while people/organizers/etc retool.

So while it'd be great to see more variation of grassroots motorsport locally, I think ultimately there's a saturation limit of religious and competitive drivers and it'll be them directing any changes.

[bsclywilly]

Taylor those problems haven't been the case because none of the cars are particularly prepped to the limit, and most of the competitors are new anyways. Basically, it's not that competitive but still plenty of fun, sort of like the club autocross atmosphere but with alot of new faces, diffferent timing format, and prizes. The single timed lap thing really opens up the competition because we've already seen some of the fast guys make their mistakes.

I'm really looking forward to the next event after hearing Joe describe it.

I hear what you're saying about motorsports in Canada though. It's such a small community that the good drivers are so far and few between that most of us competing in regional autocross and solosprints don't know how slow we really are. It's a good thing that this series is attracting so many new competitors though with people trying autocross for the first time or current AX'ers looking to try out solosprints in the future.

[Doug Phillips]

Anybody got some pics? I know I saw a few people with big azz camera's shooting around the track. :)

You lose some time when you pose. :p

[Kreutz73]

I think I may have a can of that somewhere....let me check:D

you must be low on those by now.

[Kreutz73]

You sucked??,I heard you'd run a 61.xx and if so I think thats far from sucking.Who got the ftd?.

subu's got the top 3 or so times. The other Paul (yellow subbi) was the one that got the 61.xxx you heard about. I was a 66 :eek:

[shanehutton]

If you ran a 66 I feel WAY better about my 68. Phew.

[max attack]

subu's got the top 3 or so times. The other Paul (yellow subbi) was the one that got the 61.xxx you heard about. I was a 66 :eek:


Really?,wow I feel so much better about running a 66.2 then(if thats actually what I ran,only going on what Mike told me).

Guess I gotta find the results to know fo sure.

[sjd]

BMW's (M3, Z4 M) took spots 3&4 behind the Subarus, then it was another Suabru rounding out the top 5.

I loved this event. First time on track with the MX-5, third time on the DDT. I owe a lot to Paul K, who offered a lot of advice when he rode with me for the first two sessions. Thanks again Paul.

I ran a 64.669 and finished 5th in class, 23rd overall I think.

My stock brakes held up pretty well, but a pad and fluid upgrade is in order before Dunville. My first mod next year is going to be a proper roll bar. :)

[Kreutz73]

I ran a 64.669 and finished 5th in class, 23rd overall I think.



wow! you beat me... next time I need to listen to my own advice. lol

[Taylor]

Taylor those problems haven't been the case because none of the cars are particularly prepped to the limit, and most of the competitors are new anyways.

Yeah that's pretty much my point. I mean the question was asked that if Time Attacks were a series what are the pros/cons vs Solosprint.

As soon as 1 guy preps his car for one of the 4 or 5 (if an unlimited class is added) classes, everyone else can forget about "competing". Solosprint narrows the gap and allows more novice people or people on a buget to properly compete.

This is why I said, if you want to compete, I don't think Time Attack is the place to do it. I'm also speaking of competing the proper sense, not just puttering around collecting a time that may be better than someone elses.

I don't however understand (other than marketing) why a time attack would necessarily attract more competitors over a solosprint. I mean I know what the pros and cons of them are but if you wanted to get out on the track and lay down some fast laps, solosprint lets you do that. I know in the past it would have been the $50 license, but for years now a temp license was allowed to try the sport.

Still I have to lay my money on Marketing right now. Can't really argue with what SPDA was charging for this event either.

It's such a small community that the good drivers are so far and few between that most of us competing in regional autocross and solosprints don't know how slow we really are.

Umm not sure we're saying the same things here. Many in Regional Autocross or Solosprints I would say understand EXACTLY how "slow" they are because there are ... "world?" class drivers competing there (or at least there were in recent years).

When you consider where a number of the winning CCTCC and Sprint drivers come from (Solosprint) or you look at someone like Carl who's been rather competitive in SCCA AutoX Nationals (in a rather tired car), I think for such a small community we have some truely exceptional drivers.

All I was trying to say was if you want to truely compete, you're only going to find the fastest guys at a handful of series. There's not enough truely fast amateur competitors that you'll find them leaking into other disciplines like Drifting or proper Gymkhana, Time Attack, etc... (mostly because these series have no history here yet too). Good drivers go where the action and their budget will allow them.

[MazdaMatt]

Thanks for the rundown. When i first saw this advertised my first thought was "No point in going, someone will have a $60k in my class and simply win." I see now that it just isn't that competitive and I'm sure that's drawing in newbies.

In my opinion the public draw of this series over solosprints is the complication. Structure is great for fair competition, but it sucks when you're not planning on being competitive anyway. Plus, one lapping session in this series equals the track time of an entire day of solosprint (or an entire weekend if you wasted a thousand dollars going to calabogie last year).

I like the "other" idea of a Time Attack series that was brought up last year... have a morning of open lapping, then give run groups transponders and give them 20 mintues to clock their fastest time. Passing allowed, blocking gets you banned. I think their classing system was similar, though, giving a clear win to the team who spends the most money - or putting compeition into the hands of the teamS with the most money.

[JoeT]

Sorry to jump in, but here's the "Spirit" of the series.

"ATTS is a driver’s challenge which puts cars and drivers in 4 disciplines. Not all cars are good at all events, by combining 4 different motor sports disciplines, it becomes a driver’s race rather than a car / brand race."

Taken from: http://www.atts-online.ca/

It's impossible to prep 1 car to be the best for all 4 events... That's why, in this series, it's anyones guess who's going to come out on top, regardless of prep level. Add to that the variable of some ringer coming into an event just to do 1 event and winning their class, stealing points.

The target audience for this series is to attract new people, and it seems to be doing exactly that. I understand the question, but I kind of agree with Taylor "somewhat" in that a full series like this may not work. Not yet and not now, but it's fun regardless (from an organizers perspective).

There were lots of smiles and adrenaline from all the newcomers.

[Doug Phillips]

I have not been able to attend any of these events due to other comitments but they sure sound like a lot of fun and you cannot beat the costs!!!

Great job Joe, hope it continues.

[craig]

The target audience for this series is to attract new people, and it seems to be doing exactly that.
This is awesome to hear! :)

[Taylor]

Yes, please (as I think you do) understand I was speaking plainly about (any) Time Attack series vs Solosprint in Ontario today.

I'm sure this particular one was more laid back, as it's part of a series of 4 different events, marketed to newcomers/autocrossers.. all that jazz.

Ultimately the reason why a series wouldn't work (again, at this time) is because the format and competition is a novelty at this stage. Nice way to spiff up a lapping day though! Maybe (as a series) the idea could gain traction, but my ears don't give me any indication that's happening yet.

[sjd]

I didn't participate in this particular time attack but I suspect it would be a lot like most other proper time attacks in the problem exists where if all things are equal for drivers, the issue is having a competitive car.

Solosprint has a number of classes.. 11? compared to I think a typical 4 or 5 in Time Attack. I think winning a proper Time Attack event is more about picking a platform and throwing dollars at it for a competitive car, where Solosprint you can run what you have and be pretty competitive or throw a few bucks into it to optimize your car for the class it falls in.

Also not a knock on whomever ran this particular event, but I suspect it was lacking in an equivalent percentage of experienced and accomplished drivers to a typical SoloSprint so I wouldn't necessarily guage your performance in Class FWD Low HP (or whatever they're called) against 4 or 5 similarily inexperienced drivers or autox cars to mean anything in the grand scheme of things compared to running in a 10-15 car class (GT2 thru GT4? in Solosprints) of seasoned drivers.

So in Competition terms, I think it depends on what you're driving and your aspirations for accolades and competing more against the drivers than their cars.

If you're just looking for fun, go where the value is or where you think you can learn the most. Lapping days are good for seat time too, but you won't learn a whole lot if you don't have someone better than you pushing you to do better (be it technique or times).

I'm not crazy about lapping days for the exact reason you mentioned, you won't learn a whole lot if not being pushed to do better.

My concern with moving to Solosprint is two-fold. The first is cost, I was able to run the ATTS event for $75 without such things as extra brake pads and rotors, a new set of tires, etc. and unlike a lapping day I had something to shoot for. A time at the end of it.

My second concern is that a few bolt-ons put my car in SGT2, where I have to compete against gutted AWD beasts with much more horsepower (looking at Paul M :p ) where in the ATTS series I thought the cars were better classed. I had some good drivers in my class too.

In the long run I am going to learn more from Solosprint and I want to run the series one day but for a fun event a simple Time Attack, be it the ATTS or CSCS is great fun.

[MazdaMatt]

Steve, i couldn't disagree more about the classing. I have played in solosprints a bit and watched and participated in a lot of classing and rules discussion and it is an amazingly fair playing field. On the other hand, in time attack, two wildly different prep levels of cars could be in the same class. If you felt it was fair, it must have been a coincidence or the organizers did a great job of marketting to exactly the kind of people that would not show up with a monster car.

[Taylor]

Yeah, no way a 4 or 5 classing system Time Attack is anywhere near as even as the 11 class Solo Prep Point Schedule classing. It's linear.. it's brilliant (and I still say was my bloody idea! :p). It's also been well massaged over the past 5 or 6 years. I still think there's an issue when it comes to the big tracks since the car classing doesn't take torque into effect but for the 4 or 5main track/track configs we run, it seems to do reasonably well. Most people at the top believe they're competing against the car and driver they should be.

THAT SAID... there's something to be said for only have 60 guys show up and when you spread them out over 11 or so classes, the competition gets thin.

As it is, some people are happy just trying to fight off the guy behind them or beat the guy ahead of them. You don't really need classifications to do that.. that just comes when you need a trophy and a title for your efforts.

Which.. after you do this long enough (or get a taste).. the incentive is nice. :)

[MazdaMatt]

As it is, some people are happy just trying to fight off the guy behind them or beat the guy ahead of them. You don't really need classifications to do that.

That's a good point. I don't ever really have a chance to win anyway, so I might as well just show up to an event and compare myself to those slightly faster drivers.

[sjd]

Steve, i couldn't disagree more about the classing. I have played in solosprints a bit and watched and participated in a lot of classing and rules discussion and it is an amazingly fair playing field. On the other hand, in time attack, two wildly different prep levels of cars could be in the same class. If you felt it was fair, it must have been a coincidence or the organizers did a great job of marketting to exactly the kind of people that would not show up with a monster car.

Yeah, no way a 4 or 5 classing system Time Attack is anywhere near as even as the 11 class Solo Prep Point Schedule classing. It's linear.. it's brilliant (and I still say was my bloody idea! :p). It's also been well massaged over the past 5 or 6 years. I still think there's an issue when it comes to the big tracks since the car classing doesn't take torque into effect but for the 4 or 5main track/track configs we run, it seems to do reasonably well. Most people at the top believe they're competing against the car and driver they should be.

Well CSCS has a 9 class system when you separate it by drive wheels. But I look at CSCS or ATTS like comparing a club event autox to the Solo2 Regionals. One you show up for fun and run with a time in a simplified classing system, the other takes some car prep to truly be competitive.

Like I said I've wanted to run Solosprint for a while and hopefully I will compete (looking into roll bars requirements now) sooner rather than later especially since my MX-5 feels great on the track. The ATTS event has given me a taste of that and lapping the DDT by myself for the afternoon on Wednesday and Thursday reinforced how much I want to get on the track. I redid my PIP's and am in SGT3 not SGT2, which seems much better than I thought.

[Maddog]

Well CSCS has a 9 class system when you separate it by drive wheels. But I look at CSCS or ATTS like comparing a club event autox to the Solo2 Regionals. One you show up for fun and run with a time in a simplified classing system, the other takes some car prep to truly be competitive.

Like I said I've wanted to run Solosprint for a while and hopefully I will compete (looking into roll bars requirements now) sooner rather than later especially since my MX-5 feels great on the track. The ATTS event has given me a taste of that and lapping the DDT by myself for the afternoon on Wednesday and Thursday reinforced how much I want to get on the track. I redid my PIP's and am in SGT3 not SGT2, which seems much better than I thought.Somebody else coming to play in SGT3? :D

[sjd]

Somebody else coming to play in SGT3? :D

I hope so. Not sure about this year though. :(

Still lots of questions to ask about roll bar design, pips for longevity mods such as an oil cooler & aluminum radiator. I also need to get clarification on the dyno plot and tire rules.

[Slowpoke]

Oil cooler and aluminum rad are free. So is adding ducting for cooling.

[shanehutton]

Anyone have pictures from event #2?

[max attack]

Pics would be good,results would be even more better.:)

[JoeT]

There were proactive / reactive issues that needed to be addressed which resulted in "Area 416" collective barganing negotiations. Sorry for the delay, the results will be posted shortly, along with a bulletin.

[JoeT]

Pics would be good,results would be even more better.:)

Results have been added to the web site... atts-online.ca along with a special bulletin.

Enjoy

[max attack]

Thanks Joe,I'm listed as using 710's-no idea where that came from as I don't even have a set this year.I'm on the R888's.

Btw I earned a whopping 8 points?,don't get the points structure thats for sure.Doesn't matter really anyways as I won't be making the LOONG trip for either of the last 2 events.

[CaperRacing]

I am not seeing the results... Am I missing something?

[Parker]

I am not seeing the results... Am I missing something?

They are not really event results, it shows the overall results and how many points you scored in each event.

Joe, it would be nice to have a section where it breaks down each event (like how the first events results were posted initially)... we want to be able to see how much more 'go fast!' we need/needed :D