another newbie

[Doug P]

Hi. Some mod advice please.

I ran the Solo 2 series as a novice this year in a stock Camaro Z28. With the possible rule changes for next year I am considering some upgrades to the car and would like to understand where that would put me in the Solo 1 classifications.

My LSD is shot and rather than rebuild replace as OEM I am considering a T2R.

Bigger front sway bar.

Adjustable Koni front shocks.

Stiffer front springs.

LS1 brakes.

Where would this put me. Does anyone know what Dave Barker has done to his Camaro for 8 PIPs?

Thanks,

[Dave]

Doug, what year is your car? I need to know what Starting PI to look up, but it sounds like you've got a total of 8 PIPs in your car with those upgrades (1 PIP for the LSD; 2 PIPs for the shocks; 4 PIPs for the springs; and 1 PIP for the swaybar). Since we don't separate front/rear shocks and springs in the PIP schedule, you could choose to upgrade all four corners for the same PIP total.

Dr. Dave will probably jump on here and tell you what he's done to his car.

Cheers,
Dave

[Doug P]

Whooops. Forgot the year. 1997.

The car is stock right now but I am looking at the best upgrades to fit in next years Solo 2 and Solo 1 rules.

What about the brakes?

If I took the car to a dyno how do you compare the rear wheel power to the numbers you have?

Dave, what have you found works and did not work?

Doug

[Dave]

same year as Dr. Dave's car...starting PI of 71.5%. That being the case, 8 PIPs is all you could put into it and remain in GT1, which is where Dr. Dave runs his car. This is a large and competitive class.

Once you move up 1 class (or more) brakes are totally free, so using the LS1 brakes is legal and free of PIP charges.

You can't use the dyno plot option until you've got at least 12 PIPs in engine upgrades, so this is not an option for your car as it stands. FYI we use a 14% drivetrain loss conversion factor to go from whp to crank hp. There does tend to be more drivetrain loss on rwd cars than fwd cars, so we may actually refine this conversion factor over the winter in time for the 2004 rulebook.

Cheers,
Dave

[Dave Barker]

Doug, I have 7 PIPs for springs/shocks and alignment (Konis and Eibach prokits)and 1 PIP for my take off Torsen diff which is from a 99 car. I also have a cold air intake , upgraded LS1 brakes and wheels which are allowed in the plus 1 classes as authorised mods.

If you want to stay in GT2 then probably your best single PIP would be to get the T2R diff. I have the stock "take off" Torsen which was cheap and doesn't wear out like the stock cone type diff on our cars, but it is frankly no faster. A T2R on the other hand would limit the wheel spin that occurs at at least 10 R hand corners on tracks we run . It will not make you any faster at Mosport on the big track and not much faster on the DDT as we run counterclockwise but on Fabi and TMP I would bet a T2R is worth a lot of time. It might make the car more of a handful on the street in the wet but it would only cost you 1 PIP for a much better diff than the same 1 PIP I am taking ( wish I wasn't such a cheap skate)

The sway bar, brakes , wider wheels , or shocks make up your other choices to stay in GT2 but you don't get to pick much as you would only have 2 more PIPs to play with. Our cars are under sprung and under shocked as it is but if you accepted the stock items then the LS1 (or other) brake upgrade with a stiff front bar might help. I know that in the US Solo 2 environment this is considered the way to go as sway bars are allowed in stock classes but springs are not.

OTOH if you are prepared to move up to GT1 then you can have springs and shocks with free brakes , air intake and wheels. Certainly the springs and shocks make the car much more enjoyable to drive on the track. It still won't handle great but the old compliment of "you don't sweat much for a fat girl" seems to fit. BTW if you lower the car you will need a new adjustable panhard rod to realign the car and prevent tire rub.

Once you start on engine stuff then you will be into SGT3

At least there is one advantage of having an older LT1 vs the LS1 in that the newer cars with springs and shocks need to end up in SGT3 anyway where they will be hounded by a certain overpowered Nissan ( if it ever stays together)

[Doug P]

Thanks for the info guys.

Dave another question about your shocks/springs. What are the springs rated at? Are the Konis adjustable and specifically which model? I understand there may be 2 different Konis and one is better than the other.

What about adjustable on the front and Bilstein HD on the rear to save cost?

Recomendation on a local supplier for all of this stuff? Installer?

[John P]

Yeh Dave, give him all your secrets and he will by giving you some real competition next year in Solo 1.

John

[Dave Barker]

Originally posted by John P
Yeh Dave, give him all your secrets and he will by giving you some real competition next year in Solo 1.

John

Don't worry Doug. I don't have any secrets and am happy to share any info. I would be happy to have another F body run as this year I think I was the only one and somebody has to support the General.

I used Koni single adjustable (SA) shocks due to price as they are much cheaper than the dual adjustable (DA) ones. The Pro Kit Eibachs I used were non linear starting at 360 lb/" in the front and ramping up quickly to 600lb/". I certainly liked the 600 lb and at a track like Mosport with the elevation changes I might have liked more front spring. The rears are very similar to stock.

I don't know if the Bilsteins will be up to the task at the rear but they might be.

I got the Konis from the states ( Shox.com) but believe it or not the springs I got here at Performance IMprovements on sale. Installation I did myself and is not actually that difficult . I can help if need be.

One secret though is don't buy used Hoosiers!

[Doug P]

Interesting about the Hoosiers. I just saw a post of yours on a SCCA forum.

The last TFBM AutoX was Sunday and there was talk there about whether the Escta 700 was better than the Victoracers. Any experience with both?

Have you heard much about the new Kumhos? They at least look tough with the large yellow lettering!

[Dave Barker]

The key word was USED Hoosiers

I have run both 265/45-16 Victoracers on 16x 9.5 vette rims and 275/40-17 Ecstas on 17 x 9 stock SS rims. I was consistantly significantly faster on the smaller Victoracers but there is no doubt that the narrow 9 " rim for the Ecstas hampered their performance. Certainly despite the heavy wgt of the vette rims the steering response was much better for the Victoacers as well

I will not run Ecstas again without at least a 10" wide rim. There are some out there but in general they are either VERY heavy or VERY expensive. Anyone at TBFM sellling any? Apparently the Grand sport Vette rims come in 17x 9.5 and have a good offset.

[DECH_92]

Come try Solo1 Doug, we could use some more real cars in this sport.
Hey Doc Dave, 80.687 man I could of even done better then that, high 79 at least.
Even though I have not been on the Pro track yet.
Would of been nice to say I beat you once.
I will be on all used tires next year. TOYO, KUMHO, YOKO no Hoosier.
Will be interesting to see what time I can get on the Pro track with minimal lap testing time.

[Janny]

Hello gentlemen, (and ladies if there are any.)

I too am seriously considering playing in Solo1 next year. Some of you may recognize my user name from the tfbm mailing list, and will then know that I too drive a z28.

I plan to swap out the A4 for a T56 in the coming year as well.

I was inspired to do all this by a number of things.

1. I ran for a day with Apex school at TMP. Loved it. And I got an opportunity to ride along in a hideously powerful C5, with a M6. I just gotta have one of those, I thought. I settled on the idea of the M6 in my Camaro rather than getting a C5.

2. It is too darn far for me to go to most tfbm events but the road course at TMP is less than 3 hours from my home so that is quite do-able.

3. I love fast cars and driving fast, and I just want to learn as much as I can about it. I trust that there will be folks around to help me out?

Near as I can tell from lurking here off and on for a bit, this is a pretty safe way to spend a day. Does anyone want to argue with me on this point?

[Chris91GT]

Originally posted by Dave Barker
I will not run Ecstas again without at least a 10" wide rim. There are some out there but in general they are either VERY heavy or VERY expensive. Anyone at TBFM sellling any? Apparently the Grand sport Vette rims come in 17x 9.5 and have a good offset.

The Mustang has 17 x 9.5s in the rear and even then the 275/40 V700s were getting their outer edge polished. The fronts were just getting shreaded. The Vettes don't seem to have any trouble once they start running the 315s... but, um... yeah.


Janny... no argument here! Great place to spend a weekend. And lots of people to lean on for questions.

[Dave Barker]

Chris , you and I have the same problem that we have no rear neg camber so tire wear is an issue. I assume the vettes have some but nothing like the BMWs and Miatas.

BTW do you still want to buy my Ecstas or do I want to buy yours??

[Chris91GT]

Dave, you can buy the 2 Ecstas if you want. I'm not sure what my tire plans are for '04, but I don't really want to run the V700s again.

I have 6 Hoosiers that I bought from John H in the summer that I will probably use for lapping days. Sounds like they'll be good for drifting. The Yoko S's worked well for me this year, so perhaps I'll grab another set of them.

[DECH_92]

Dave & Chris
I am running 245 and 255 on 8.5 in rims, -2.8 camber up front and I don`t have the tire problem at all.
mined you ,I don`t get out much

Chris you have the 9.5 out back but the 8.5 up front with 275
Is this just to much tire for that size rim?
Maybe 10 in all around is in order.

Plus the after market brakes, brings the tire out more closer to the fender.
You almost have to order custon offsets rims to fit

[Chris91GT]

Greg,

I don't think it's the rim sizes in general, just the rim sizes with these particular tires. The Nylon sidewalls are far too soft to handle the loads unless you have a very small sidewall it seems. Or a light car...

Neither the Yoko (H or S) or BFG R1 (old tire) had any issue with uneven wear no matter how hard I drove them.