Think Boltin Roll Cages are a good Idea?

[gearhead]

http://www.stinkybeaner.com/uploads/files/5/mcrash08.jpg

http://www.stinkybeaner.com/uploads/files/5/mcrash010.jpg
Notice the roll bar sticking up through the floor.
http://www.stinkybeaner.com/uploads/files/5/mcrash02.jpg
Both the driver & passenger got out OK.

http://forums.themustangsource.com/showthread.php?p=5753663

[speedmerchant]

Are you sure is wasn't just a roll hoop in the car and not a full cage? Even a full bolt in cage would have withstood more than that. This is why it is so important to have a cage anchored in the proper locations and with enough base plate material. You'd never see my cage do that!!!!

[gearhead]

Are you sure is wasn't just a roll hoop in the car and not a full cage? Even a full bolt in cage would have withstood more than that. This is why it is so important to have a cage anchored in the proper locations and with enough base plate material. You'd never see my cage do that!!!!

Yep it was a 4 point according to the article that was sent to me.Look at the way it punched through the floor.

[MazdaMatt]

Serge, 4-pt is not a full cage. My del sol has a 4-pt. It is just a hoop with rear bracing. No halo, no a-pillar bars, no door bars, no dash bar, etc.

Either way, poorly installed. Lucky to be alive.

I used HEAVY plate at the feet of my bars and they ALL tie in to vertical metal and horizontal metal. No punch-through is going to happen.

A friend is a mechanic and worked at a shop where they were putting together a roll cage from a "kit" that included sleeved bends and straight bars. ie the hoop was 5 pieces. That's much worse than a bolt-in.

[racer-025]

I attach my cages to the rocker panel using a steel box. I did this with a bolt in cage for the EG Civic. Del Sols have a really strong rocker panel made of thick box steel (because of the Targa top). Here is a couple pics of my Del Sol.

[shanehutton]

It's crazy that they are ok. If they were using 4 point belts that were secured below the crushed area then they would have been hurt pretty bad. Can you imagine the roof coming down that low while you are firmly belted into a 4 point? Something would have to give and my guess is it would be your neck. I guess when the roof came down it must have slacked the belts with it so they could bend with the roof.

Scary picture..

[Pat Dowling]

I'd have a very bad feeling responding to a wreck sitting like that...:o:(

[pigeon]

Isn't that more of a fault with poorly sized base plates?
If you had tiny base plates welded in, and tiny base plates bolted in... wouldn't it punch through the floor in the same fashion? The squared area contacting the floor is the same.

If they were to weld in that bolt-in bar, but change no other aspect of the design.. would the same thing happen?

[Pete@Marcor]

The other possibility is that it was a weld in bar, where the mounting ponts actually weakened the floor section. If the welder improperly heated the floor, it may have sufficiently weakened it to cause it to become brittle, allowing the bar/cage to poke holes in the floor.

Do not dismiss a bar/cage simply because it is a bolt-in. There is less chance of installer error.

[ADAM]

the only way that tube went thru the floor is due the fact no base plates were used...

and when they are you should also "L" them up the side of the chassis as well to prevent the tubing from spearing thru the car

[thgear]

what?

Serge, 4-pt is not a full cage. My del sol has a 4-pt. It is just a hoop with rear bracing. No halo, no a-pillar bars, no door bars, no dash bar, etc.

Either way, poorly installed. Lucky to be alive.

I used HEAVY plate at the feet of my bars and they ALL tie in to vertical metal and horizontal metal. No punch-through is going to happen.

A friend is a mechanic and worked at a shop where they were putting together a roll cage from a "kit" that included sleeved bends and straight bars. ie the hoop was 5 pieces. That's much worse than a bolt-in.

[3wheeler]

While were all talking about roll cages and saftey I thought I might ask some questions to those of you who are currently running a cage in your car. I am playing with the idea of a 4 point cage in my car for next season since I plan on going to a few track days along with autocross events I normally attend. The issue is, this is my daily driver and I am trying to decide whether or not a cage will infact make my car more dangerous on the street due to my head pinging off the bars meant to protect me in a roll-over. Now I am not at all concerned with comfort or any other luxury a car would normally have as a daily driver, so the lack of space or slightly limited view does not bother me one bit. I am however concerned about the saftey, possible insurance issues(inspections and so on) and if this is actually legal to begin with. If anyone here could give me some helpful insight or ideas, it would be greatly appreciated!

[DT Racer]

Wow...looking at the pics its a wonder they came out Ok. There is no before the tire wall shot but talk about not only a roll bar failure, the tire wall sure didn't do its job...actually looks like it vaulted them up instead of grabbing and stopping. They should count themselves lucky and I bet a full cage is in their future...:D

[gearhead]

Try these pics

http://jalopnik.com/5390934/mustang-cover-boy-tries-to-corner-flips-over-tire-wall?skyline=true&s=x

[MazdaMatt]

Haha... serge, i misread "gearhead" for "thgear". I was responding to the other guy.

Gearhead... read statements above re: 4-pt is not a cage, it is a roll bar.

[MazdaMatt]

In the "before wreckage" shot, it actually looks like the hoop is not vertical with angled rear-bars. It looks like it is angled with vertical front-bars. This would create massive leverage on the verticals during a rollover, promoting punch-through... i would think. Any mech eng's want to speculate?

[gearhead]

Haha... serge, i misread "gearhead" for "thgear". I was responding to the other guy.

Gearhead... read statements above re: 4-pt is not a cage, it is a roll bar.

Correct.I realized that later when I looked at the pictures later!

[DT Racer]

Try these pics

http://jalopnik.com/5390934/mustang-cover-boy-tries-to-corner-flips-over-tire-wall?skyline=true&s=x

So the first set of tires sent them up airborne and they literally 'drove over' the next set and into the "Safety Fence?"....which did stop them alright :eek:. What a wild ride! Yep, full cage is a really good idea, especially in a 600hp car.

[MazdaMatt]

600hp car!? You'd have to be a complete retard to take that on a road course without a full cage.... you'd also have to be a complete retard to build a roll bar with 3"x4" foot plates with no vertical ties... I sense a theme here.

[Steven Scala]

So what's this car weigh, anyways?

I'd guess a light, full-cage car would be more likely to bounce, no? Add a ton more and I'd say the odds are towards breaking something. Maybe the low, long bodywork is less likely to keep rolling than something egg-shaped, too, particularly if it had very little forward weight. Good to dissipate energy over a wider area. (A controlled one's preferable, natch.)

But anyway, this is a modern Mustang we're talking about here, right?

(Yeah, off-seasons can be slow...)