Lap Timer/GPS/Accel Boxes

[Salmaan]

For the guys out there doing some post drive analysis...

What kind of *typical* information do you get that can be used to improve things?
Did you find it made a big difference to your driving?


For those who find it very useful, any recommended products/software? I noticed Will's writeup on tires involved some serious data logging. Good for equipment comparison but I was wondering if it helps with other stuff too...

[ScotcH]

The biggest benefit by far that you will get is to have someone like Krispy drive your car, and compare the data to your runs ... see where he is faster, and WHY he is faster.

[Steven Scala]

As a first glance, AIM software has a Channels Report feature that shows minimum, average and peak values for different channels for each lap in a given session. You can configure the report for different channels in order to suit different objectives: driver coaching, car development, guest-driver 'ga-zing' monitoring, et cetera.

For speed, an indication of average throttle per lap can be almost as telling as the laptime itself. Driver-wise, an overlay graph of speed vs. throttle position will give a quick illustration of the driver's basic technique or trouble spots. Overlay those two traces for two different drivers and you'll progress twice as quickly.

[IanO]

For solosprint and lapping, I think you'll find that most people are using either the Traqmate or the Racepak G2x. I use the Traqmate and I'm quite happy with it. ChrisP uses the G2x. As mentioned above, the biggest benefit is being able to compare your data with someone else.

[jonweir]

Salmaan,
A whole lot can be learned by studying the following basic data:


Lateral acceleration
Longitudinal acceleration
Position (on the track)
Speed
Lap time


This is all you need to start with, which is what you'll get from most dataloggers. Usually you'll have 2 accelerometers and GPS (or a wheel speed sensor). From that you'll get all the listed data.

Also, just diligently collecting data from your own drives will tell you a lot. When you look at corners and sectors, you'll find that each lap is different from each other (even if lap times are similar), and you can see where your inconsistency is. Getting someone else in your car will show you more ways to get around the track, but I think your first priority should to understand how you drive and improve your 'relationship' with your car. It will be good to correlate your 'seat of the pants' feeling with what is actually happening to the car.

Will and I can help you out with the data in the spring.
PM me if you want to get something worked out for next year. Whether you buy a datalogger yourself, or want to borrow one and try it out.

[RRRex]

We like our G2X pro. Uses GPS data to monitor speed, g-forces, maps your line, tracks engine temps, rpm, gear, A/F if you want - there's a lot more information than you can actually have practical use for.

[bsclywilly]

I've been using the logger in my car for two main reasons, driver development and monitoring my motor.

For driver development,

Longitudinal acceleration (g's):
Indicates where your braking points are, how hard you're braking, how much time it takes to shift, and can calculate horsepower for comparisons sake. Oh and you can also see if you're lifting off the brakes as you shift.

Lateral g's:
Indicates how much of the tire you're using, how smooth you are cornering by maintaining constant g's through sweepers, and can indicate the improvements you've made to your cars handling or aero modifications or change in tire performance for example. These can be viewed as a graph relative to distance, time, or x-y graph plotting g-g diagram that you may have heard of. With the g-g plot, the idea is that you want to stay on the edges of the g-circle as much as possible because that's where your brakes, motor, and tires are doing the most work which means you're carrying the most speed.

Speed:
Whether GPS or using a wheels speed sensor is used for comparison between laps and/or drivers. The software with my datalogger calculates the time gap between different laps, so for Jon and I, we can quickly see where time is gained and lost at each point on the track. You can also read this to indicate whether a slow-in, fast-out approach is really better (or vice versa) and see how corner exit speeds actually impact your speed down straights.

Lap beacon/Start-Finish:
Gps is a little less hassle compared with non-gps units. Lap times are the most basic measure of performance. Then being able to add sectors in to each lap can see what areas of the track you have the most to improve whether it is simply you're not going fast enough (compared to another driver) or consistency (compared to your own laps). You can see this with a split times report what your theoretical best would be if you used the best time from each sector. Obviously one sector may affect the times of another so choosing where you put the sector markers is important.

Driver controls:
This is where complexity escalates because ideally you would have sensors for steering angle, throttle position, and brake pressure to monitor what the driver is doing. Some new OEM cars have these sensors already which you can tie into. Some dataloggers have connections that can directly interface with OEM ecu's and log every sensor on the car! For me, i've just got throttle position logged which helps to see where Jon is on the gas and i'm not and lets me ponder why i'm not on the gas. Different driving styles also factor in. Since I don't have brake pressure sensor, I just look at braking g's (longitudinal accel).

My motor is a bit finicky with oil temperatures so I put on a big oil cooler and temperature and pressure sensors. If you've ever blown up a motor and were logging the data, you could at least trace back why your motor went instead of blindly fixing it and hoping it won't happen again. For example, if your oil temps are too high, your oil pressure drops and it's good to know when the pressure has dropped below spec so you can slow down and let it cool (or run thicker oil next time). Warning lights and a display are critical for this, especially if you're on the track for sometime you may not notice a gauge right away or it spiking. Same with oil starvation in corners. In the software I use, I have a math function for oil pressure that says if my rpms are above 3000 and my oil pressure is above 50psi, then everythings good (1), if not, then the value is 0. So if I plot it it should just be a straight line. Also good to look for are other engine vitals like coolant temp, battery voltage, etc. Straight lines are good. Say my oil or coolant temps seem to keep climbing as I drive for 15, 20min or longer. Then I would know that there is either a cooling problem or I need a bigger cooler/radiator. it's nice to have a page setup in the software for all the motor vitals so you just have to glance at it and if everything is steady and straight, you know you're good.

A/F is the other one I have hooked up for tuning my ECU.

Of course there are alot more applications, especially to do with suspension tuning like logging damper velocities and positions for damper and spring tuning or calculating roll angles. Gyros can give you pitch and yaw rates, IR sensors can provide real time tire temps or brake temps, individual wheel speeds for traction, torque sensors for differential tuning, etc. There's no limit for us geeks!

[Scott McIntyre]

I use MaxQData (http://www.maxqdata.com/) myself. It can be quite inexpensive if you go the DIY route. Even the full packages are pretty cheap compared to the competition.

It was good enough for me to win the national solosprint championship for my class this year (1st of 1). ;)

[nrg3k_civic]

HADA members share a Performance Box http://www.performancebox.co.uk/overview.html

Simple software means quick answers to 'could i brake later' which help lap times. There is a more advanced version called the 'driftbox' as well. This unit plugs into the cig lighter, so its really easy to remove when you aren't racing.

DJM:>

[cmstrilchuk]

I have a MaxQData set up with Dell Axim pocket PC available for sale,
if interested email - pm me.

[Salmaan]

Guys, Thanks a lot for the responses. It definitely seems that this is an option worth pursuing to improve my understand of car and vehicle.

Probably could give me some more gains on the track than throwing more hardware at the car to make it go faster at this point!

[brokenparts]

Hi there's http://www.racechrono.com/ costs about 150 for the hardware and the software is free.

You can also open the file in the free software(Performance Tools) that can be downloaded here
http://www.performancebox.co.uk/



heres how it looks
http://www.honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p=40091438&postcount=38

[Maddog]

Hi there's http://www.racechrono.com/ costs about 150 for the hardware and the software is free.

You can also open the file in the free software(Performance Tools) that comes with this
http://www.performancebox.co.uk/



heres how it looks
http://www.honda-tech.com/showpost.php?p=40091438&postcount=38I only have a dumbphone though. :D

[brokenparts]

i bought that nokia phone off craigs list for 50bucks and the gps from Canada gps http://www.canadagps.com/Qstarz818X.html

[Ujjwal]

i bought that nokia phone off craigs list for 50bucks and the gps from Canada gps http://www.canadagps.com/Qstarz818X.html

Hey I just downloaded this. Right now I guess only shannonville is available as a track config? How hard would it be to create, or, is there already a way to get DDT or MIR as a track config? Since this is off my phone, I doubt getting performance numbers will be very accurate but at least the lap times should be semi useful? Phone is htc touch.

[brokenparts]

well when you go around the track it creates the track map and you can then set a start/finish line

no they didn't have any canadian stuff so he ask for the shannonville file and i didn't have a chance to go to mosport last year.

i'm not really sdure about the gps in the phone...but they talk about it in their forums