View Full Version : 2004 smack talk begins..... (NEVER ENDS, ACTUALLY)
pasted from another thread...just to get things started.. he he he
rpr
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Brampton
Posts: 135
quote:Originally posted by Liam in Montrea
Someone hasn't grasped the concept of turning races into "family outings"
give your daughter a torque wrench, see how that goes....
regards,
Liam
She is almost 4, but yeah, I've got her started in her role as grease monkey already. She knows wrenches, sockets, pliers, etc, I just need to get her to figure out the sizes: "No, the 10mm!"
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I live my life a quarter pounder at a time.
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ADAM
destroyer of z06's
Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 991
here you go already spreading lies.....
chris sgt3 2004 champion......
ha ha ha ha... that mustang is gonna be spanked so hard..... that the guy who originally sand casted your 302 block is gonna feel the pounding i am gonna give your mustang
let the 2004 smack talk begin....
quote:Originally posted by Chris91GT
I don't see me using rain excuses. It's called car control. hehe
My excuse is that I decided to start exploring the big tracks of Mosport and Watkins Glen. Several days of that started to eat up my budget quickly. But I did intend to come back to Shannonville (I even installed mufflers!)... unfortunately, I busted 2 gears, a cluster, and the tranny case itself at Mosport on Sept 1 and the damn thing is still out for repairs.
My 2004 plan includes as much of the Solo 1 schedule as I can manage (perhaps excluding DDT - one day there will eat up as much tire as several days at the big track with continuous lapping), lots of the NE Porsche club events, and tons of Mosport (most likely several of the BMW schools). The thought even crossed my mind that I might get my rookie race licence and try a sprint at Mosport. But that's just a tickling in the back of my mind right now...
So, 2004 SGT3 champion... Chris Atkins!
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destroyer of regular corvettes :)
www.turbo240sx.ca
Chris91GT
10-01-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
here you go already spreading lies.....
chris sgt3 2004 champion......
ha ha ha ha... that mustang is gonna be spanked so hard..... that the guy who originally sand casted your 302 block is gonna feel the pounding i am gonna give your mustang
let the 2004 smack talk begin....
Hehe Smack Talk '04.
After I notch a Nissan on my fender at SMP in May next spring are you gonna come out to the big track at Mosport for a real whoopin?
:p
any track you want...if you even want to go to the drags thats ok too :)
you will be defeated... :)
I miss the good old days when I could lay a smack talkin' on Adam because my car was actually fast enough to back it up. Now I'll have to satisfy myself with trying to scare Rob and Jeff in the off-season with talk of moving up to GT2. Hey, it's better than nothing! ;)
so get that civic moving dave.....!!!!
ice/solo racer
10-02-2003, 04:02 PM
It might not be Dave's civic hunting you down Adam!!:D
I haven't decided yet which class to run,currently I'm in yours(with new car) but I might remove a couple of items to go down a class or add a bunch of things to try and be competitive in yours.
My Civic will "get moving" when the wallet turbo spools up...might take a few years at this pace! :mad:
ice/solo racer
10-02-2003, 07:36 PM
Adam I'll be running an 88 crx with a B16 transplant amoung other improvements,my main theme is lightness.I currently have the copper corolla ae86,to put a name with a car.
If I decide to run your class I'll lighten some more and add a little power and see what happens,to go down a class all I have to do is add some safety gear for - points.
Not to sure if my lighter weight would come close to keeping up with your hp advantage?.Guess we'll have to see.
Its not ready enough right now or I'd bring it to the shootout as if it rains the corolla has little chance in BSS.
Nissan Racer
10-02-2003, 08:22 PM
Hehe...looks like its gonna rain, at least there'll be one Nissan up front :D
ice/solo racer
10-02-2003, 08:31 PM
Pat sounds like you need a co-driver!!:D
If it rains I'll be really disappointed as the main reason that I got into the regional's was the shootout,rained last year so I sucked(well not really,fastest rwd car with exception of sae car)and looks like better than average chance of rain for this year as well.
I performed a mod last weekend that has the potencial to have me at the front if its dry,wet-it'll be fun but slow!:(
Chris91GT
10-02-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
any track you want...if you even want to go to the drags thats ok too :)
you will be defeated... :)
Bring it on! :D
Drags...? You getting desperate? hehe That's what the tow rigs are for on the way to the track. I'd be happy to outhaul you on the 401. ;)
Nissan Racer
10-02-2003, 09:02 PM
Oh great, now Adam will have to get one of the supercharged Nissan Frontiers (or a Titan :D ) and start modding it up too...whats next Econoline trailers? :D
Nissan Racer
10-02-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Chris91GT
Drags...? You getting desperate?
At least he didn't say "drifting"... :D
Chris91GT
10-02-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Nissan Racer
Oh great, now Adam will have to get one of the supercharged Nissan Frontiers (or a Titan :D ) and start modding it up too...whats next Econoline trailers? :D
Frontier... psshhh. He'll need for than that to keep up with the new rig.
my pathfinder on its worst day...is better than a domestic on its best :)
hmmm a crx with b16 ehhh....
what do they put out? 200rwhp? and weigh 1700lbs
thats 8.5lbs per hp....
i would think next year for any of the SGT classes 300+rwhp would be a minimum or at least a 8.0lbs per hp or lower..plus great handling as well...
Chris91GT
10-03-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by ADAM
my pathfinder on its worst day...is better than a domestic on its best :)
You taking the Pathfinder to the banquet? :D
AirCooln
10-03-2003, 09:55 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADAM
hmmm a crx with b16 ehhh....
what do they put out? 200rwhp? and weigh 1700lbs
thats 8.5lbs per hp....
QUOTE]
Actually a CRX puts out a grand total of 0 rwhp. Its front wheel drive.
:p
GR8 Ride
10-03-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by ADAM
any track you want...if you even want to go to the drags thats ok too :)
you will be defeated... :)
Hmm...I think you *should* bring your car out to Mosport some time.... :)
All that smack talk might disappear the first time you get to the top of turn 2....all that boost won't help you there!
I'd be interested in seeing how long your car lasts at Mosport.... ;)
Pat
next season... i may just come out to mosport....and see how the old turbo holds together :)
i still don't think a rustang is gonna take the 240sx down however...regardless of what track they are on....
ok...maybe a smash up derby :)
pat..did you see the milling/boring machine is now up and running....hmmm now we need something to mill
philip_240sx
10-03-2003, 01:11 PM
Figure I'd chime in...
I can't talk smack right now... I haven't even participated in one event yet. :( Next year should be a great learning experience though. :)
I will be racing my '90 240SX (hopefully). Not sure what class I will end up in yet... somewhere in GT2 or GT3 I think. We'll see.
philip say hello on the board...
philip_240sx
10-03-2003, 02:00 PM
Sorry, I should have posted an introduction:
http://racing.kos.net/soloforums/showthread.php?s=&postid=14401#post14401
ice/solo racer
10-03-2003, 07:19 PM
My car likely has about 170hp(200 would be nice but I don't have funds for that)and will be heavier than 1700lbs I'm sure,I'll get the car on some scales this winter once I get things sorted out and corner weight it.
Lbs per hp are only a portion of the puzzle,while your trying to get the turbo beast of yours stopped I'll still be on the throttle and should have a higher corner speed so depending on which course it might be very competitive.Besides I've always driven cars that were on the low hp side relative to other cars in class,has helped me to become a better momentum driver I think.
Still undecided on staying in SGT3 or go down to GT1,I'd prefer to go for max points in SGT3 and develop the car the way I want it instead of doing things to make it slower.
Adam come on over and say hi at the shootout,I'll be the sideways corolla guy-shouldn't have any trouble finding me!:D
Chris91GT
10-03-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
next season... i may just come out to mosport....and see how the old turbo holds together :)
i still don't think a rustang is gonna take the 240sx down however...regardless of what track they are on....
ok...maybe a smash up derby :)
Make sure you do, I'll have the in-car cam setup in the rear window as you disappear.
:)
he he..you had better make sure it can swivel :)
Chris91GT
10-06-2003, 09:26 AM
Why? I don't pit that often.
:p
JGraves
10-06-2003, 10:03 AM
No but when Adam's turbo has failed or caused something else to fail, you'll be passing him on every lap.
Chris91GT
10-08-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by JGraves
No but when Adam's turbo has failed or caused something else to fail, you'll be passing him on every lap.
Hmmm... very good point Jeff. I forgot about the scenario when I start lapping him. Maybe I'd better attach a remote for the swivel...
ha ha ha.....
unless that rustang of yours is making way over 400 at the wheels ...no way is it gonna touch the 240sx...
1= easily have you beat in handling...i could probably rip a wheel off my car and still beat you on 3 wheels :)
2=have you beat in power as well......320rwhp at 17psi (guesstimate)...gonna walk on you in the straights
3=have you beat in torque as well....340ftlbs at 17psi (guesstimate)..gonna walk on you coming out of the corners...
the rustang is gonna get spanked so hard in SGT3 next year is gonna hurt....bad.....
last years set up would have taken you down....let alone next years set up....
200lbs lighter....
50-80rwhp more...
50-80 ftlbs more...
and reliable....
your camera is gonna need to swivel from the blast of air as i pass you on the straights :)
he he he....
hows that for smack.....its too easy to pick on mustangs though....
:)
Originally posted by ADAM
ha ha ha.....
unless that rustang of yours is making way over 400 at the wheels ...no way is it gonna touch the 240sx...
1= easily have you beat in handling...i could probably rip a wheel off my car and still beat you on 3 wheels :)
2=have you beat in power as well......320rwhp at 17psi (guesstimate)...gonna walk on you in the straights
3=have you beat in torque as well....340ftlbs at 17psi (guesstimate)..gonna walk on you coming out of the corners...
the rustang is gonna get spanked so hard in SGT3 next year is gonna hurt....bad.....
last years set up would have taken you down....let alone next years set up....
200lbs lighter....
50-80rwhp more...
50-80 ftlbs more...
and reliable....
your camera is gonna need to swivel from the blast of air as i pass you on the straights
he he he....
hows that for smack.....its too easy to pick on mustangs though....
Not that I want to get involved ;) But if you have all the advantages in those 3 aspects and he still manages to beat you, then you do not have the advantage in the most important aspect ... driver. :eek:
P.S. Keep this up it makes for a fun read :D
ohhhhh...a blistering shot across the bow
chris is a good driver though :)
but we are facing cars off here ...not the drivers....
chris whats the top end on the stang like?
i top out at about 250kph
Chris P
10-09-2003, 12:33 PM
fear the 100hp of a 1st gen rex!
GR8 Ride
10-09-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
ohhhhh...a blistering shot across the bow
chris is a good driver though :)
but we are facing cars off here ...not the drivers....
chris whats the top end on the stang like?
i top out at about 250kph
How do you plan on facing off the cars, without facing off the drivers?
Mosport is NOT a friendly track to those who feel they can 'point and shoot' every corner. It's largely a driver's track, and more often than not, the weaker car with the better driver will prove to be fastest.
Besides, so many more things apply to making a car quick around Mosport (gearing, suspension, tires) than just HP and torque (and comparing torque numbers is irrelevant....).
Not to piss in your oven or anything Adam, but you should really drive Mosport first, before making any claims about how quick your car is going to be there. :)
I'm willing to bet your first crack at Mosport (especially without instruction) will leave you wishing to break 1:50s.
It's NOT a track for the faint-hearted, and it's a track that sets the standard for 'cojones' in North America. As Ron Fellows says, if you can drive Mosport well, you can drive any track in North America well.
Pat
ice/solo racer
10-09-2003, 08:28 PM
I'm with Krispy only "fear the 180hp second gen crx"
My power to weight kinda pales to you though Adam,out of curiosity what would your 240 weigh?I'm really leaning towards prepping for sgt3.
Of course I might suck badly as a driver,being on never before seen courses and all.
philip_240sx
10-09-2003, 10:13 PM
A stock '89-90 240SX weighs in around 2684 lbs. fully laden. Adam's 240 may be a bit lighter than that... even with stripped interior + weight of roll cage and turbo hardware.
My '90 will probably be about the same... let's see:
2684 lbs / 140whp (guesstimate) = 19 lbs/hp
Not really impressive I guess, but I'm not concerned with hp right now... only learning to drive the car quickly. :)
i bet my first crack at mosport will be much slower that 1:50 since i have no idea which way the road is going..... :)
i would think after a day lapping there..times will drop....
but thats what we are doing is comparing cars..as far as driving goes i would classify myself as a mediocre driver that tends to overdrive the car and is not as smooth as i can be...
chris seems to be a good driver with good back up times....
this is a mustang vs 240sx debate though :)
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
How do you plan on facing off the cars, without facing off the drivers?
Mosport is NOT a friendly track to those who feel they can 'point and shoot' every corner. It's largely a driver's track, and more often than not, the weaker car with the better driver will prove to be fastest.
Besides, so many more things apply to making a car quick around Mosport (gearing, suspension, tires) than just HP and torque (and comparing torque numbers is irrelevant....).
Not to piss in your oven or anything Adam, but you should really drive Mosport first, before making any claims about how quick your car is going to be there. :)
I'm willing to bet your first crack at Mosport (especially without instruction) will leave you wishing to break 1:50s.
It's NOT a track for the faint-hearted, and it's a track that sets the standard for 'cojones' in North America. As Ron Fellows says, if you can drive Mosport well, you can drive any track in North America well.
Pat
ok...then lets do the showdown at the protrack....what difference does it make what track its at anyway?
we should at least pick a track we are both familier with...no...
though mosport sounds like lots of fun..
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
How do you plan on facing off the cars, without facing off the drivers?
Mosport is NOT a friendly track to those who feel they can 'point and shoot' every corner. It's largely a driver's track, and more often than not, the weaker car with the better driver will prove to be fastest.
Besides, so many more things apply to making a car quick around Mosport (gearing, suspension, tires) than just HP and torque (and comparing torque numbers is irrelevant....).
Not to piss in your oven or anything Adam, but you should really drive Mosport first, before making any claims about how quick your car is going to be there. :)
I'm willing to bet your first crack at Mosport (especially without instruction) will leave you wishing to break 1:50s.
It's NOT a track for the faint-hearted, and it's a track that sets the standard for 'cojones' in North America. As Ron Fellows says, if you can drive Mosport well, you can drive any track in North America well.
Pat
Chris91GT
10-10-2003, 11:09 AM
hehehe Gotta love this thread.
First Q... top end... who knows!! I never drive it on the street and the longest straight I've even been on is a tie between The Glen and Mosport... both of which max out 4th (~215-220kph) but come up shy of top end.
FYI though... radar speed at Pro in May was 181kph... somewhat higher than your 172 I noticed. Instant NA torque and traction may have a little something to do with that. :D
My stock 87 Mustang was capable of better than 245kph... but it became a damn scary ride with the wonderful aero of 5L Mustangs. So, with 300rwhp instead of 200... who knows, but it would probably take off first. And there isn't a straight on any track locally to get me to that speed anyway. Gotta love the Mosport hill climb.
I've been to Mosport 3 times now. Lap times vary a bit... almost all of them on camera have some sort of traffic. I've timed a bunch in the 1:40s, a few in the 1:39s, and have been told that I was clocked in the 1:38s. I know that the car is capable of more, but I'm still working on overcoming my fear of being caught inside a crumpled Ford tin can... the complete cage over the winter should relieve some of that. :)
Interesting comparo from Event 3 too... you beat me by .7s on a track that in theory should support good-handling cars. I recall that the car was not handling well that day and I had to manhandle it with a LOT of throttle input. Seemed to get the job done though. With Pro favouring a more neutral balance between power and handling it will be interesting to see who's quicker there.
Another interesting side note to the above... the car loves the sweepers at Mosport. The "Rustang push" takes a backseat and becomes much more neutral. Having plenty of rubber no doubt plays a more significant role there than it does at any of the Solo 1 club circuits as well. Corners 2 and 4 are well over 100mph at their slowest, with 1 and 8 being close and 3 ~96-98mph. 9 and 10 are somewhere in the mid-90s too. 5b being the slowest corner is somewhere just under 60mph I think... I'd have to go back and check the video and the tach.
The only thing that I hate about Mosport... is the fact that I have to drain the Bowmanville Sunoco of Ultra 94 on the trip up 57 just to make it through a single track day! 6 hours of track time tends to suck up a lot of fuel. :p
Chris91GT
10-10-2003, 11:11 AM
Ooooh... don't tell Adam... but the "Rustang" is due to receive a tidy suspension upgrade in the very near future (not for the start of the 04 season though).
Oops... did I type that in a public domain?!
he he...yeah i did see that your trap speed was much higher that day...(i won't go thru my excuses for that day)
it will be a good battle next year... :)
so lets leave the battle at the pro track then...since it favours power...and is good handling as well...
:)
Originally posted by Chris91GT
hehehe Gotta love this thread.
First Q... top end... who knows!! I never drive it on the street and the longest straight I've even been on is a tie between The Glen and Mosport... both of which max out 4th (~215-220kph) but come up shy of top end.
FYI though... radar speed at Pro in May was 181kph... somewhat higher than your 172 I noticed. Instant NA torque and traction may have a little something to do with that. :D
My stock 87 Mustang was capable of better than 245kph... but it became a damn scary ride with the wonderful aero of 5L Mustangs. So, with 300rwhp instead of 200... who knows, but it would probably take off first. And there isn't a straight on any track locally to get me to that speed anyway. Gotta love the Mosport hill climb.
I've been to Mosport 3 times now. Lap times vary a bit... almost all of them on camera have some sort of traffic. I've timed a bunch in the 1:40s, a few in the 1:39s, and have been told that I was clocked in the 1:38s. I know that the car is capable of more, but I'm still working on overcoming my fear of being caught inside a crumpled Ford tin can... the complete cage over the winter should relieve some of that. :)
Interesting comparo from Event 3 too... you beat me by .7s on a track that in theory should support good-handling cars. I recall that the car was not handling well that day and I had to manhandle it with a LOT of throttle input. Seemed to get the job done though. With Pro favouring a more neutral balance between power and handling it will be interesting to see who's quicker there.
Another interesting side note to the above... the car loves the sweepers at Mosport. The "Rustang push" takes a backseat and becomes much more neutral. Having plenty of rubber no doubt plays a more significant role there than it does at any of the Solo 1 club circuits as well. Corners 2 and 4 are well over 100mph at their slowest, with 1 and 8 being close and 3 ~96-98mph. 9 and 10 are somewhere in the mid-90s too. 5b being the slowest corner is somewhere just under 60mph I think... I'd have to go back and check the video and the tach.
The only thing that I hate about Mosport... is the fact that I have to drain the Bowmanville Sunoco of Ultra 94 on the trip up 57 just to make it through a single track day! 6 hours of track time tends to suck up a lot of fuel. :p
Chris P
10-10-2003, 05:27 PM
Adam, you should give yourself more credit then that.
Mosport, I'm sure dad or myself could set a few good times around the big track. ;)
Chris91GT
10-10-2003, 05:46 PM
Adam... we can have our challenge at Pro, but you've gotta try Mosport! If you don't, you're really doing yourself an injustice.
I also highly recommend budgeting a trip to Watkins Glen in late July for the North East Porsche Club 2-day event. It was only $362 Cdn this year and was a blast. Only 5 hours from TO as well.
philip_240sx
10-11-2003, 10:47 AM
David Wheeler (who has run Mosport several times in formula Fords IIRC) asked me to post his reply to this one:
Originally posted by ADAM
i bet my first crack at mosport will be much slower that 1:50 since i have no idea which way the road is going..... :)
Right, Left, Right, Left, Right, Right, Left, slight Right, slight Right, Right, Left, Right :)
GR8 Ride
10-11-2003, 02:43 PM
Again, I have to wonder why the obsession with trap speed? The only place trap speed matters is on the drag strip...
If you're doing 240 at the end of the back straight, but can only take turn 8 (Mosport) at 120 km/h, then what good is that trap speed? If someone else is only doing 205 km/h at the end of the backstraight, but takes turn 8 at 170 km/h, which car is likely to be faster?
Also, you REALLY need to run the cars at Mosport, which is a track that challenges both the horsepower of the car, the handling of the car, and the skills (and cojones) of the driver. While the Pro track at SMP is alright, you'll never look at Cayuga, or SMP the same after running at Mosport. The Glen doesn't hold a candle to Mosport...it's really that world class of a track.
As to laptimes, it's pretty questionable with anything less than a transponder. I've had people timing me all year, and even with top-end stopwatches from Longacre, the transponder is slightly slower every time. Just too many variables with hand-held stopwatches.
I still say that it's impossible to accurately compare two cars such as Adam's and Chris', without having a third party, independent driver testing them. Each one of your knows your own car too well to be able to compare times on a pure car by car basis. The driver is FAR too large a piece of the equation.
Come on....I wanna see you guys run at Mosport.... far more exciting that way (and a shorter drive than SMP!).
Pat
I still say that it's impossible to accurately compare two cars such as Adam's and Chris', without having a third party, independent driver testing them. Each one of your knows your own car too well to be able to compare times on a pure car by car basis. The driver is FAR too large a piece of the equation.
I totally agree, and I volunteer to BE that driver ;)
Shaman
10-11-2003, 08:13 PM
Watkins Glen is fun, mainly because you get to wind your car pretty much to the stops. But Mosport is another animal for sure... much more challenging.
Of all the tracks I've done to date, very few - maybe none - of them were comparable to Mosport. Nelson Ledges springs to mind... with the added excitement of constantly changing pavement, piled rubber and gravel on the track, not to mention the armco and cement within a couple feet of the track surface in most places.
Dave Barker
10-11-2003, 08:52 PM
So whose car would win? I vote for Adam's (especially if he toned down on the wing) . Whose car would I rather drive as long as it was working ? Adam's again. Whose car would I rather own ? Chris's for sure.
Just reminding you Adam of the OMSC rule that if you stop competition and need a tow during an event ( run by OMSC) you are liable for buying a round for all competitors who show up at the bar of the organizer's choice. Looks like you might go broke doing that.
TYSON
10-12-2003, 01:02 AM
HEHEHE!! DOn't worry Adam, if we both break maybe they'll let us split the cost of one round between us. Wouldn't want people driving home drunk!
DECH_92
10-12-2003, 12:40 PM
Hi Adam
WOW, it must be nice driving a car that light.
What are you going to do to get another 200lbs off?
With that HP & TQ you will have quite the power to weight ratio.
Question. How do you keep the used truck engines together with all that boost?
Adam, you would love Mosport.
Chris91GT
10-13-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Dave Barker
Just reminding you Adam of the OMSC rule that if you stop competition and need a tow during an event ( run by OMSC) you are liable for buying a round for all competitors who show up at the bar of the organizer's choice. Looks like you might go broke doing that.
Might be cheaper to start running Mosport full time. :p
What I like better about the Glen is the banking that builds additional g's. What I hate about the Glen is the banking... that beats the crap out of the driver AND the car.
The Glen is a ton of fun, but my preference is Mosport beyond a doubt. The Glen is much more conventional, with 90/180 deg. corners. Mosport is more of a drivers' track. Most of the corners are longer, with a helluva lot more elevation change, that requires more precise placement and balance.
You use your fists at the Glen... you finesse Mosport.
John P
10-13-2003, 10:14 PM
Why don't you guys step up to a real track......
http://foto.nurburgring.de/web/images/nordschleife.jpg
Krispy
Chris91GT
10-13-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by John P
Why don't you guys step up to a real track......
http://foto.nurburgring.de/web/images/nordschleife.jpg
Krispy
:D
Yes, well... as soon as the bank account adds a few zeros I'll be flying over there, renting a 911 GT3, and doing a few hot laps.
hehe
he he......what holds a 14 year old truck motor together you say......
(in a southern drawl voice)
yeehaww... good old american iron baby.....when you have to fight the enemy might as well use his best weapons...
good old ARP studs
good old custom ross pistons
good old manley NASCAR V8 rods
good old o-ringed head..
good old strong crank....bull nosed, balanced, heat treated, and strong as heck
and a good old IRON block.....
all AMERICAN PARTS baby....basically i have created a 1/2 a 5.0 mustang engine..and boosted it :)
the bottom end is not going anywhere...the head is stock so that is the weak point...
200lbs is coming off from the stock fuel tank that i currently have to run 3/4 full all the time or i get fuel starvation...i am switching to a race fuel cell....that will drop the weight alot ....
ha ha haha....here are some pics of the american parts used...
Originally posted by DECH_92
Hi Adam
WOW, it must be nice driving a car that light.
What are you going to do to get another 200lbs off?
With that HP & TQ you will have quite the power to weight ratio.
Question. How do you keep the used truck engines together with all that boost?
Adam, you would love Mosport. http://www.turbo240sx.ca/arpheadstuds.jpg http://www.turbo240sx.ca/oldvsnewpisandconrod.jpg http://www.turbo240sx.ca/o-ring1.jpg http://www.turbo240sx.ca/fuelcell.jpg
Chris P
10-15-2003, 12:31 AM
treachery!!!!!!!!!
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 09:11 AM
Just all you wait for the Mullet Camaro....I am still working on getting it classified so I can see whom I get to chase around the courses timewise.
bring that mullet on eric.....
another piece of american iron to destroy on the track :)
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 09:54 AM
I am going to be in GT1 it looks like. Your big bad 240sx will be one class above me.
But I understand that it bursts into flame a lot, according a a few people on this board. Mine is turbo'd too and has gone 23 years without bursting into flames :D
We will see when the camaro is done :) I have been practicing Gran Turismo 2 so my track skills will be sharp when the real track is ready! I hope they let me retrofit a Play Station controller into the Mullet.
lol
thats ok..... this engine is putting out over 150rwhp per litre..so its a bit stressed......
that would be comparible to a 855rwhp 5.7l V8....
how well do 1000hp at the crank V8's hold up road racing :)
TYSON
10-15-2003, 10:22 AM
More smack about horsepower per litre huh?:p
Chris91GT
10-15-2003, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by ADAM
thats ok..... this engine is putting out over 150rwhp per litre..so its a bit stressed......
that would be comparible to a 855rwhp 5.7l V8....
how well do 1000hp at the crank V8's hold up road racing :)
And you still can't beat a stock 302 with heads and intake in a straight line? hehe
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 10:32 AM
I will tell you how well they hold up in street driving/racing and drag racing.
1531 rwhp out of 344 c mopar on race gas. 900rwhp on pump gas. Tons of street driving, tons of dragstrip passes, over the last three years, and the motor was just torn down for a checkout and looked great. It will be ringed and bearinged this winter and be back out in the spring. The owner drives this car to car shows all over the place, and he frequents one that is an hour away from his house.
:D
Since this motor looked so good I am thinking of buying his spare for my drag car. Its just too much power for road racing and solo II.
Whats the HP/L on that?
ok ok...i have to bring out my excuses now....that day at the pro or fabi when you beat my trap speed....the car was hardly working.....in fact it had to be push started at the line to even get it going...
i was getting 1100deg Celcius EGT's that day...and in my divine stupidity..i knew that the engine was leaning out....so..what did i do...increase th efuel pressure.....so much in fact the injectors could hardly open under the pressure..thus the car could barely run...plus i lowered the boost to only 11psi that day...since i was afraid the motor would be damaged.....
so the car was off by at least 60hp-80 or so...maybe more..
it is tuned properly now :)
with egt's in the 850 C range
Originally posted by Chris91GT
And you still can't beat a stock 302 with heads and intake in a straight line? hehe
street driving and drag racing are two very different things vs road racing...
road racing puts so much more stress on the engine......
he he....you will see ...mr turbo carburated v8 ...
:)
hmmm a 344ci ehh..... i like the sounds of that......i think 1500 hp sounds very nice.....though i think a good solid 800rwhp would suffice for any car..since traction would be a huge issue
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RacerRick
I will tell you how well they hold up in street driving/racing and drag racing.
1531 rwhp out of 344 c mopar on race gas. 900rwhp on pump gas. Tons of street driving, tons of dragstrip passes, over the last three years, and the motor was just torn down for a checkout and looked great. It will be ringed and bearinged this winter and be back out in the spring. The owner drives this car to car shows all over the place, and he frequents one that is an hour away from his house.
:D
Since this motor looked so good I am thinking of buying his spare for my drag car. Its just too much power for road racing and solo II.
Whats the HP/L on that? [/Q
UOTE]
TYSON
10-15-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by RacerRick
I will tell you how well they hold up in street driving/racing and drag racing.
1531 rwhp out of 344 c mopar on race gas. 900rwhp on pump gas. Tons of street driving, tons of dragstrip passes, over the last three years, and the motor was just torn down for a checkout and looked great. It will be ringed and bearinged this winter and be back out in the spring. The owner drives this car to car shows all over the place, and he frequents one that is an hour away from his house.
:D
Since this motor looked so good I am thinking of buying his spare for my drag car. Its just too much power for road racing and solo II.
Whats the HP/L on that?
Whoa,
Lose the Camaro and get a 'Cuda.
Originally posted by ADAM
hmmm a 344ci ehh..... i like the sounds of that......i think 1500 hp sounds very nice.....though i think a good solid 800rwhp would suffice for any car..since traction would be a huge issue
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RacerRick
Its just too much power for road racing and solo II.
[/Q
UOTE]
I think you misread what he typed.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 10:57 AM
What is 850 Celcius in Farenheit?
The twin turbo drag car that will be in the shop when the mullet is done will be running two T04B's with H3 wheels and a .81 A/R turbine housings most likely, but I would like the step up to the T61's or T62-2's when I get the car running.
For reliability I will be going with a larger motor with less boost. Less stress and maintainace, and longer life :) I like my cars to be low maintainance.
eric,
with that blow thru carb'ed turbo set up...how the heck are you gonna tune it?
there are some vastly different temperature ranges we run in?
how does that draw thru system work? i have never worked or even seen one in real life...
how does it compensate for varying boost/temp levels?
850c=1562f
1100deg c=2012 deg f
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 11:10 AM
Draw through systems are very easy to setup and tune, but have the disadvantage of not being intercooled, and if there is any long tracks on intake plumbing, fuel puddling and lag become an issue because of the volume or air and the distance the fuel has to travel. The mullet has very short intake plumbing so lag or fuel puddling should not be an issue.
Because the carb is never pressurized it acts like a normal carb. The turbo sucks on the carb much harder than a engine could and that varies the amout of fuel flowing at any time. Differing boost levels are compensated for by the differing airflow through the carb. The carb only ever sees atmospheric pressure airflow, no boost.
The only thing you really have to worry about is fuel distribution in the intake manifold, but even this is minor because the turbo atomizes the fuel air mix so well, and homogeously. As long as the carburator is jetted somewhere in the range that a motor will run in, it will work well. I am looking at a DIY Wide Band O2 guage for some insurance while tuning the car. I will probally leave it rich for safety.
I really need to get a oil cooler for the car and a oil temp guage.
hmm....neat....
though i am not sure that system can compensate differences in air density due to temperature change?
since flow would remain the same..but density would change with temp...
ie....the carburator does not know the density of the air coming in?
or does it?
Chris P
10-15-2003, 12:28 PM
oh adam.......
http://turbod16.no-ip.com/viewtopic.php?t=2949
seems your down some HP.....
bah, only if it were true, seems he's jooked that community.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 12:48 PM
Because the fuel is at atmospheric pressure in the float bowls, it reacts to heat the same way as the incoming air. If it gets hotter, its density decreases also.
This can cause problems you won't ever see in a FI car, like the fuel boiling in the bowls causing vapor lock.
that board is FUNNY...that dyno sheet is fake that they posted..... 100%
liqueds are incompressible so the density of the fuel should remain constant up until it vapourizes...no?
hmmm...now i am even more confused on this blow through design.... i have a book on it at home.....will look it up tonight and see if i can understand how its working....
i could see the vapourlock/fuel boiling being an issue....especially if that fuel is anywhere near the turbo..
(since i have never even worked on a carburator )
Originally posted by RacerRick
Because the fuel is at atmospheric pressure in the float bowls, it reacts to heat the same way as the incoming air. If it gets hotter, its density decreases also.
This can cause problems you won't ever see in a FI car, like the fuel boiling in the bowls causing vapor lock.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 12:57 PM
Cast iron is also incompressible, but it definately expands when heated. So does aluminum at a higher rate, which causes half the headgasket problems when using a aluminum head on a iron block.
All things expand or contract to some degree when subjected to thermal changes.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 01:04 PM
Its draw through, not blow through.
The carb is before the turbo inlet so the turbo sucks fuel and air through the carb. It never sees any boost. Its the simplest turbo setup you can make.
Blow through mounts the carb at the turbo compressors outlet and sends presurized air through the carb. Blow through allows you to use a intercooler and generally doesn't have any problems with fuel puddling or anything like that but it requires a carb that has been setup to see boost. You have to boost reference the fuel pump, use solid floats, seal the throttle shafts, and tuning is much more tricky since the carb will run rich off boost with a boost friendly set of jets. There are ways around this though.
On a draw through system like the Mullet has, you tune it like any motor.
Check out www.toohighpsi.com to see some real cool homemade turbo setups.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 01:05 PM
I think I am going to see if I can match or beat the rear wheel horsepower of your 240sx with my el cheapo setup :)
I bet the V8 in my daily driver valiant would almost match it. Let me put a set of headers on it and I bet it would.
TYSON
10-15-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
that board is FUNNY...that dyno sheet is fake that they posted..... 100%
HAHAHAHA Damn Hondas, eh? The whole 'disconnect the wastegate' thing had me laughing.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 01:20 PM
I would be very pissed off if I had someone tune my engine and they pulled off the waste gate to see how much it would boost.
Overspinning the turbo - great for the turbo.
TYSON
10-15-2003, 01:25 PM
Thats just it. He didn't remove the wastegate, he removed the vacuum signal line.
No vacuum signal = wastegate spring boost
Which of course would be less than whatever he was normally running, as it is impossible to boost less than the wastegate spring setting.
he he..power is power...but the key is the weight...and how you can accelerate that weight...stop it....and make it turn :)
Originally posted by RacerRick
I think I am going to see if I can match or beat the rear wheel horsepower of your 240sx with my el cheapo setup :)
I bet the V8 in my daily driver valiant would almost match it. Let me put a set of headers on it and I bet it would.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 02:11 PM
Just think how much reliable power I can make in my race car if my daily driver makes a bunch.
I just need to get a windshield in it.
the actual boost signal that is used helps open the wastegate spring..so if he did pull the wastegate boost input..it would spin the turbo out of control....though some backpressure may be able to slightly crack open the spring...the turbo would boost to its maximum without a boost reference signal...
when my boost signal tube was melted...i blew up my engine in 2002 at TMP this same way...hit 27psi before i could back off the throttle...by then...the motor went ....boom...
Originally posted by TYSON
Thats just it. He didn't remove the wastegate, he removed the vacuum signal line.
No vacuum signal = wastegate spring boost
Which of course would be less than whatever he was normally running, as it is impossible to boost less than the wastegate spring setting.
thats ok..you can still proposition(beating the higher classes times) the classes above you....
GT1 is very competitive as well....you will have a great time vs the type r's in there
Originally posted by RacerRick
I am going to be in GT1 it looks like. Your big bad 240sx will be one class above me.
But I understand that it bursts into flame a lot, according a a few people on this board. Mine is turbo'd too and has gone 23 years without bursting into flames :D
We will see when the camaro is done :) I have been practicing Gran Turismo 2 so my track skills will be sharp when the real track is ready! I hope they let me retrofit a Play Station controller into the Mullet.
lol
TYSON
10-15-2003, 02:23 PM
Doh, I was thinking only about the top one. Not the one on the side.
power is good....very good....but your issue is gonna try to make that mullet handle...its gonna be a lead weight around that track ...at over 3500lbs..thats where the time should be spent....cause in GT1 there are some very nimble cars.....and point and shoot won't get you very far....ok..maybe if you were able to overpower them by a very silly amount..and had a ok handling car..that would work....
(i love to gut cars by the way...i can help you one night at ORF loose some pounds on the mullet)
Originally posted by RacerRick
Just think how much reliable power I can make in my race car if my daily driver makes a bunch.
I just need to get a windshield in it.
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 02:26 PM
The car is dangerously close to GT2...if I don't do the bumpers it will end up in GT2....I will weigh them and see. :)
RacerRick
10-15-2003, 03:25 PM
Well - I am going to lose as much weight as I am allowed to.
I have to vacumn out the car - that should be good for at least 10 lbs! I want to have it down to 3200lbs or less race weight.
The real challange will be getting it to go around corners. I need to really look at sway bars closely after the $2004 challange.
ice/solo racer
10-15-2003, 08:54 PM
I know I'll be doing my damnest to keep sgt3 from getting propisitioned!:D
Should be interesting to see how relatively little power and sub 2000lbs(hopefully)fairs against more powerfull but heavier cars.If nothing else I'll get way better tire wear;)
RacerRick
10-16-2003, 08:57 AM
Hey Adam....The Mullet has Landed...check out its "Junk Yard Fresh" glory at the shop. I even left the hood open so you can marvel at the amount of crap stuffed under the hood of that car.
And be afraid. Be very afraid. Of tetanus.
Its rusted a little in the four or five monthes its been stored on a gravel driveway. I need to get some lug nuts that match the new rims so I can take off the rotten 20 year old BFG's that are on it.
Chris P
10-16-2003, 01:59 PM
"If nothing else I'll get way better tire wear"
hahahahaa :p
ice/solo racer
10-16-2003, 04:17 PM
Not sure how to take your reply Krispy?are you laughing with me-or at me?;)
Chris P
10-16-2003, 07:47 PM
http://www.redpepperracing.com/chat/converts/nuts.gif
ice/solo racer
10-16-2003, 08:23 PM
Well I know for sure that I don't like the kick to the stones!!:D
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 10:42 AM
Too bad this isn't wheel-wheel racing. A little extra weight is good when you are rubbin'.
After weighing the trailer and Mullet Camaro, we were very surprised to see the Camaro weighs nearly 4000lbs. It did have a trunk full of spare parts and 1.5 interiors in it. It severely needs to go on a diet.
Anyone have a can of slim fast I can put into the gas tank?
AirCooln
10-17-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by RacerRick
Too bad this isn't wheel-wheel racing. A little extra weight is good when you are rubbin'.
I can just see it now, a big ol' Camero punting Civics out into the weeds as barges down the straights.
4000 pounds? Have you decided on what manufacture of tire you'll be running next year? I smell a lucrative investment opportunity brewing. :D
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 11:05 AM
I think taking the junk out of the trunk, the extra interior parts out of the interior, the A/C, the fuel cell replacing the stock tank, removing the giant door bars, removing the huge bumper assemblies, removing all the sound deadener, removing the ancient stereo system, vacuming it, and giving it a good wash should lighten it up a bit.
There has to be at least 20 lbs of dirt on the car.
hmmm 4000lbs.....
you are only gonna have to get that mullet laying down 539rwhp to match the hp/weight....and then you have the real problem.....of trying to slow it down.....and turb it..
:)
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 12:03 PM
Thats what it weighs now! It won't be as portly when it is done.
I am building a set of hydralic scales for corner weighting. I am picking up most of the parts for them today, and the first one will probally be done next week. After getting that weight I think I might have to go for a higher pressure guage if the F/R on this car is more than 60/40.
Have you corner weighted your 240? I would like to test the scale when its completed.
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 12:05 PM
I could always go nuts on the car and strip it to the bone and get it down to 2700lbs like the drag race guys do.
Whats your car weigh again?
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 02:22 PM
But how much does it weigh now with the turbo setup, roll bar, and whatever lightening you have done to it?
TYSON
10-17-2003, 03:25 PM
Too much chatter, not enough SMACK!:D
Where is Chris?
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 03:41 PM
Everyone in GT1 or GT2 knows the Mullet will be breathing down their necks! They are afraid. Afraid I tells ya!
When I actually get the thing running it will be a force to be reckoned with!
TYSON
10-17-2003, 03:46 PM
They probably should be afraid! With the bumpers you described and questionable braking prowess they're likely to be squashed like ants!!!:D
RacerRick
10-17-2003, 03:56 PM
Your car is my crumple zone!
With all the work going into the brakes, it should should stop as well as a C4 vette or better. 12" disks on the front and 11" disks on the rear should haul is down pretty good.
But if you hear the term "Turn pig, turn!" being yelled at a event, that is probally me.
I understand that there will be a tiny little civic in my class next year...MMmmm....Food!
ice/solo racer
10-17-2003, 08:16 PM
Yeah fast food :D
You can't eat what you can't catch!;)
Chris91GT
10-18-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by TYSON
Too much chatter, not enough SMACK!:D
Where is Chris?
Trying to figure out how we can line up a Nissan sandwich. :D Rick, you like Mustard or Mayo on your clubs?
Chris91GT
10-18-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by AirCooln
4000 pounds? Have you decided on what manufacture of tire you'll be running next year? I smell a lucrative investment opportunity brewing. :D
I hear Michelin sells a great light truck tire...
RacerRick
10-19-2003, 12:43 PM
Dis some work to the Mullet Camaro yesterday and got lots done.
Engine is out and torn down to the shortblock, except one head
Trans is out and inspected
A/C is out
Brakes were inspected and torn down (still has the factory original brakes from 1980!)
Rims changed
Tore the exhaust off
Removed broken exhaust studs on one exhaust manifold
Removed stripped out allen head bolts on intake
Inspected front suspension (only needs an idler arm)
The engine is clean inside:) Forged D-cup pistons with factory heads. Compression ratio ends up at 7.55:1. The heads have huge double springs with aluminum retainers and stock valves and rockers. The huge valves springs have bent a pushrod, and most of the pushrods ends are buggered. One cylinder has blown out the head gasket to the water jacket. Have to check to see if the heads are warped. They will need some work...
RacerRick
10-19-2003, 12:45 PM
Mustard is good for me!
Give it a few months and the car will be on the road looking for munchies.
DECH_92
10-19-2003, 05:37 PM
SO A DAM
Smile so what is the weight of you car?
Now that we race against anything in the same class
3, 4, 5, 6,8 cyl.
Maybe its time to show our mods to our cars in some Solo register;)
RacerRick
10-19-2003, 10:17 PM
On the faster tracks adam is going to have to be watching his mirrors. A mullet will be sneaking up on him!
I hope to actually get the motor torn down and take a look a th bearings neaxt weekend. Then we will be able to see what is needed. The car keeps eyeing the tomato red 240SX though...it looks like it wants something to eat. I may let it snack on a honda or two though before the main course!
DECH_92
10-19-2003, 10:25 PM
This hurts to say but
They bite back sometimes.
RacerRick
10-19-2003, 10:31 PM
Honda's on the DDT might beat me, but on the larger tracks, I think they are going to be in trouble. Big white moby dick camaro sized trouble :D
DECH_92
10-19-2003, 10:39 PM
I have the same car in my backyard 78 Z28 without tubro
Maybe there is enough food for 2 mullets
Just remember they have very small pointed teeth and with Adam`s 2500 aprox weight! :mad:
Maybe a GM crate motor is in order.
RacerRick
10-20-2003, 09:02 AM
I have been talking to my drag race buddies and they say 3000 lbs out of the Camaro is not hard at all.
With the current mods planned the car will sit at 76.8 in GT1. So I have a few points to play with. I think I actually have less points as I was looking at the indexing again and found that some of the mods I want to do are free at class +4. I may fall into GT2 after further scrutineering at 74.8.
Who is in that class? I need to know where the food chain starts so the Mullet can start feeding.
no clue what it weighs now..i have not had the car corner weighted yet..
Originally posted by DECH_92
SO A DAM
Smile so what is the weight of you car?
Now that we race against anything in the same class
3, 4, 5, 6,8 cyl.
Maybe its time to show our mods to our cars in some Solo register;)
eric,
i had a look at your mullet motor...that turbo looks siezed.....no?
Originally posted by RacerRick
On the faster tracks adam is going to have to be watching his mirrors. A mullet will be sneaking up on him!
I hope to actually get the motor torn down and take a look a th bearings neaxt weekend. Then we will be able to see what is needed. The car keeps eyeing the tomato red 240SX though...it looks like it wants something to eat. I may let it snack on a honda or two though before the main course!
AirCooln
10-20-2003, 09:13 AM
[i]
Who is in that class? I need to know where the food chain starts so the Mullet can start feeding. [/B]
I was considering moding the boost control on the Clubman (stock its a stupid system). That would put me in GT2 by my calculations....I can just see the U.S.S. Mullet going down by the hand of a mighty Mini.
When your whole car weights as much as the cylinder head of an american V8, its amazing how fast a couple HP move it up through the scale.
RacerRick
10-20-2003, 10:39 AM
The turbo is seized in the exhaust housing.
The rust from the housing has jammed the turbine. I have seen this happen before on turbo cars that sat for a long time. I have to pull of the housing and sand blast it to remove the rust so it can spin freely. I am not too worried about that really.
I have been really going over the rules and trying to figure out where that car falls. It looks like GT1 is the best bet and there will be super stiff competition.
After doing some measuring I was not impressed to find 81cc chambers on the heads (that casting is supposed to be 76cc's) which means I have a whopping 7.55:1 calculated compression.
It will still be enough to eat most cars on the track :)
that compression will be good for high boost..the car has an old water injection system that "could" spray alcohol..or water to help detonation......?
i would be more worried about the frame twisting..since it looks very rusty...
RacerRick
10-20-2003, 02:07 PM
The front subframe on that car has lots of surface rust but no scale, so it should be more than strong enough.
I want to sandblast the front subframe and see what I have though.
RacerRick
10-21-2003, 08:59 AM
I just went and talked to a guy and we weighed his car. 3100lbs with him in it, full interior, small block and the only fibreglass part is the hood. It as a camaro like mine :)
I should be able to get the car under 3000lbs with some serious dieting.
Geez, the power to weight and handling on this car just keep getting better.:D
And the car sits squarely in GT1 so all you other class guys, be afraid!
DECH_92
10-21-2003, 09:43 AM
Is this going to be track only car?
The hood and Doors are huge and weigh more then a Honda.
Some serious fibreglass may be in order
I don`t no 3100lbs
He probably has more out of the car then just the Hood.
Under 3000 would be nice, I wish I could get my stang down to that.
3200 sounds more likely
RacerRick
10-21-2003, 09:49 AM
Went over the lightweight camaro...it has fibreglass race buckets in it (which I am getting from it), no console, no door bars, no emmisions crap, a fuel cell (which I am getting from it), a 'glass hood, and the earlier lightweight bumpers.
Other than that is has the same engine, transmission, and rear end as mine.
I should be able to get mine just as light.
DECH_92
10-21-2003, 09:55 AM
I think the wheel wells are big on the front so you can probably get 275`s in there with lots of camber.
You may have a quick car when you get it in the 3000lb region
We probably will have the same problem PUSSSSSSSSSSSHH
Chris91GT
10-22-2003, 11:52 AM
Greg, did you see the weight reduction article in the latest GRM? They took a 5L hatch weighing in at ~3300lbs and dropped it to just under 2500lbs. All the usual cutting and hacking, plus a FG hood, FG doors w/ lexan, lexan f/r windows, alum heads/intake, k-member, alum block ($$$ for just 80lbs).
just look at all the V8's i will have to pick on next season.....
such fun....such joy......
a 2500lb mustang........is still a mustang
:)
RacerRick
10-22-2003, 01:17 PM
Pick on? Are you dropping down to GT1 this coming year?
Bring it!
yeah yeah..once you start swapping parts in that beast you will end up higher than GT1
just watch...
:)
RacerRick
10-22-2003, 04:48 PM
I have studied the rules very long and hard....this is how the car specs out. GT1 with room to spare. A poor little racing novice like me can't play with the SGT people yet.
http://www.phoenixforce.org/pips.htm:D
TYSON
10-22-2003, 06:25 PM
I'm still hoping no one is in Prepared again this year!:D
DECH_92
10-22-2003, 07:27 PM
Chris I was looking at the AI cars and yes some are in the 2500lb range.
Man , now there is a man`s car .
Adam if you are putting down more TQ & HP and 700lbs lighter,
you sure are not that much faster.
WE would kick your ass no problem in a 2500lb stang.
The class your in does not matter cause any other racing anywhere in the world we would not be in the same class
It just lap time that matters.
I am in SGT3 but the only one I want to do better in is Dave in GT1.
If I can beat him I consider myself a winner
I am going to sneak on Dave b used Hoosier tires on his car when he is not looking next year.
Dave Barker
10-22-2003, 09:23 PM
Greg, I was hoping to not have to do anything to the car for next year of any significance but maybe now I'll have to . ( BTW to give you an idea of how bad those Hoosiers were, I was getting wheelspin out of Turn 1 at Fabi in the dry and I don't even have a boost control !)
Rick , are you so sure that with all those mods and your Adam type engine that you will still only be GT1?? Certainly sounds like you will need the Dyno rule.
Chris91GT
10-22-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
just look at all the V8's i will have to pick on next season.....
such fun....such joy......
a 2500lb mustang........is still a mustang
:)
You bet... it would be a shame if it was a Nissan. :D
DECH_92
10-23-2003, 08:00 AM
Hi chris, I phoned you last night.
When would be the best time to call?
http://www.corral.net/forums
They have a fourm for Amercian Iron here.
Plus the rule book.
You going to Mosport this Weekend? Lapping
RacerRick
10-23-2003, 08:29 AM
Adam type engine? lol
I have posted all the mods and the PIP costs, and anyone can look at the car who has access to the shop.
The only thing I haven't decided upon is the rear wing that is on the car - its fibreglass and really light, but I also have a stock trunk lid and spoiler. I would like to get some testing done and see if I need a monster wing on the back.
Here (http://www.phoenixforce.orj/pips.htm) are the mods and pip costs.
I just want to be able to run with the people in my class and beat some (all) of them.:p
bring on them muscle cars :)
your pip sheet looks good....
what about change in compression? no way they would build a motor with 7:1 compression from the factory? would they....
TYSON
10-23-2003, 10:05 AM
In 1980 they would....
here are all the engine codes for that mullet..... not one engine has 7:1 ..i would "imagine" that the pistons are custom since the car was turboed without an intercooler...the low compression pistons would be much better for detonation....
eric....is that the case?
LC-3229V-63.74 x 3.48115 @ 4000175 @ 20008.6:1 2V LD-5*231V-63.80 x 3.40110 @ 3800190 @ 16008.0:1 2V L-39267V-83.50 x 3.48120 @ 3600215 @ 20008.3:1 2V LG4 305V-83.74 x 3.48155 @ 4000240 @ 16008.6:1 4V LG-4*305V-83.74 x 3.48155 @ 4000230 @ 24008.6:1 4V LG4/Z28305V-83.74 x 3.48165 @ 4000245 @ 24008.6:1 4V LM1/Z28350V-84.00 x 3.48190 @ 4200280 @ 24008.2:1 4V
Chris91GT
10-23-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by DECH_92
Hi chris, I phoned you last night.
When would be the best time to call?
http://www.corral.net/forums
They have a fourm for Amercian Iron here.
Plus the rule book.
You going to Mosport this Weekend? Lapping
I won't be out any more this year... the car is still missing the tranny from the Sept 1 event.
If you're up there I may tag along to see the action. What's the event?
RacerRick
10-23-2003, 11:55 AM
It came from the factory with a LM1 350 ci V8. After doing some searching I have found that the motor has been swapped at some point in the cars life as it has the wrong block casting number. Its still a 350 chevy, just its a later lightweight casting that is not as durable as the one that is supposed to be in the car. It looks like it is in good shape though so I will use it.
But don't worry, it will be back at the stock compression ratio of 8.2 when the engine goes back together.
I am going to replace the heads with the proper casting for my car which should be 333882.
You can see the LM1 engines specs on NastyZ28.com at
http://www.nastyz28.com/camaro/z28lm1.html
The pistons that are in the motor now should give about 8.2:1 with a stock (thin at 0.018) head gasket and heads that come out with the factory spec 76 cc's on a 0.030 overbored 350 chevy. They have a 21.3cc dish according to Sealed Power.
Here are the specs if you want to figure it out yourself.
75.47cc chamber 882 casting heads heads
0.018" thickness head gasket, 4.060 gasket bore
21.3cc D-cup in the piston (stock weight)
4.030" bore
3.48" stroke
Zero deck clearance
= 8.19:1 compression ratio
8.2:1 should be better....and allow you to run some good boost as well....and with the water injection that should keep detonation down as well.....
RacerRick
10-23-2003, 12:40 PM
The max that turbo system will make is around 7 psi so it should be ok.
We will see how well the block fares. It should be a 2 bolt main also. If it wasn't for the budget considerations, I would get a better block with four bolt mains.
Luckily I can trade the heads that are on it for a set of stock 882 castings.
DECH_92
10-23-2003, 07:52 PM
Hey RacerRick, are you in need of some stock heads of a 78 Z28 LM1 motor ?
90,0000 km ,never of motor
I can check with my oval racer friend I am giving the car to.
Don`t think he want the heads.
RacerRick
10-24-2003, 08:15 AM
If they are 882 castings (they should be) I am definately interested. A lot of circle track racers are forced to used those castings however by class rules.
DECH_92
10-24-2003, 08:27 AM
I will check with him
I think all he wanted was the k-member
How soon do you need to no by?
RacerRick
10-24-2003, 08:30 AM
No big hurry. I have a friend with couple set laying around at his shop .
Do you have the entire engine? I will buy the entire engine off you if its a good price. What sucks is that the LM1's were all 2 bolt cast crank engines, but at least they had the better 010 block instead of the later light weight block I have.
DECH_92
10-24-2003, 08:41 AM
I will check if he needs engine
Its 78 Z28 90K
no intake or valve covers. Taken off a year ago
But been sitting for 20years
RacerRick
10-24-2003, 10:09 AM
Is there any other parts off the car you are looking to get rid of?
I would like the rear end and sway bars, plus the engine of course. And I would really like the guage cluster since it should be a 130mph cluster. Oh, and the Urethane nose! I really need that also! And if it doesn't have A/C, I need a bunch of heating stuff. I need all the Z28 specific stuff.
I would like to buy the entire car if possible and strip everything I need off it, but will leave the subframe alone for your stock car friend and he can have whats left for free.
DECH_92
10-26-2003, 06:27 PM
I will have to get back to you on anything to do with the car, cause
basically its his car now but like I said, don’t think he needs much of it.
Sorry Adam for steeling your form, time to turn this back into a smack talk .
Adam I noticed you did not win 1 event this year and it was not a V8 that won.
Yeah, Andrew L you did damm good this year.
SGT3 is going to be all over the place next year.
WOW GT1, Christian and Dr. Dave watch out, you have guys all over you.
Chris, James, Jud, Alex, Alec, Taylor. Someone new may take you guys for a ride.:( :eek:
ice/solo racer
10-26-2003, 09:08 PM
I guess it won't be me taking those guys for a ride,I only have 1 seat;)
RacerRick
10-27-2003, 08:26 AM
I got the mullets engine all apart finally and it looks really good inside :)
Oh, yeah - the turbo is all spinny again :)
GT1 I think is going to be one of the most hotly contested classes if what I am reading is any clue. I will be in the thick of it, destroying lesser cars with a 23 year old, carburated, live axled, domestic that weighs as much as two miatas.
All you people out there better watch out!
yeah tell me about it....this is as close as i have EVER come yet though...only 0.159 away from FTD...so i will admit.....that V8 powered car did beat me...there is always next year :)
1 Gord Allcock CCC 98 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Kumho 61.739 ( 95.902) 96.593
2 Adam Hutchinson HADA 89 Nissan 240SX Toyo 61.898 ( 99.468) 100.000
3 Blair Duguid BAC 02 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Kumho 62.193 ( 96.466) 97.686
4 John Smeets OMSC 80 Tiga Spec Racer Yokohama 62.544 ( 87.867) 89.322
Originally posted by DECH_92
I will have to get back to you on anything to do with the car, cause
basically its his car now but like I said, don’t think he needs much of it.
Sorry Adam for steeling your form, time to turn this back into a smack talk .
Adam I noticed you did not win 1 event this year and it was not a V8 that won.
Yeah, Andrew L you did damm good this year.
SGT3 is going to be all over the place next year.
WOW GT1, Christian and Dr. Dave watch out, you have guys all over you.
Chris, James, Jud, Alex, Alec, Taylor. Someone new may take you guys for a ride.:( :eek:
DECH_92
10-27-2003, 09:41 AM
SUPER GRAND TOURING 3 CLASS
1 Andrew Lee N HADA 98 Acura Integra Type R Toyo 83.727 ( 99.638) 100.000
2 Adam Hutchinson HADA 89 Nissan 240SX Toyo 84.483 ( 16.517) 99.105
I think you may have to look behind you as well as in front.
The type R is hunting and I think he has you name in his sights.
if you look at my backup score..you will see something is wrong......
i did a 84..with pretty much no brakes....after the first session i retired the car....my master cylinder got melted and the brake fluid all ran out
i would think i could knock off at least 3-5 seconds on that track
:)
same with this poor performance...note the back up time....a silicon hose blew off my turbo basically crippling the engine.....
damn turbo engines......
once these relibility issues are fixed.....the V8's shall feel the nissan wrath :)
1 Robert Magro BAC 91 Lotus Super Seven Hoosier 67.448 ( 91.751) 93.743
2 Blair Duguid BAC 02 Chevrolet Corvette Kumho 68.815 ( 99.027) 100.000
3 John Smeets OMSC 80 Tiga Spec Racer Yokohama 69.335 ( 88.155) 89.096
4 Gord Allcock CCC 98 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Kumho 69.460 ( 94.229) 94.937
5 Adam Hutchinson HADA 89 Nissan 240SX Toyo 69.521 ( 74.852) 100.000
6 James Mewett PMSC 89 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II Kumho 70.377 ( 99.484) 100.000
DECH_92
10-27-2003, 01:00 PM
Dam
Why don`t we level the playing field and you use 195/75/14 tires, R compound
that would be neat to all run on SPEC tires and sizes..i would go for that....
make those vettes run on 195's
he he..i only have 225's so no biggi for me...
let them come down from 315's to 195's
that would be very funny
DECH_92
10-27-2003, 02:38 PM
No wonder I can`t beat any of you guys
Vettes! are they around 3,000lbs?
Adam 240! around 2,500lbs?
Mustang! around 3,300lbs?
Besides being better drivers and both having move HP&TQ,
no wonder your all have killer times.
Dr Dave, well, I can`t figure that one, 35 or maybe 3,600lbs?
If you figure in weight, The DOC is the fastest.
Don`t no what bmw`s weigh?
How about you put 3 people in the back for one race.
We will have to buckle them in good though with 3,000lbs on 225`s
i really think its the handling of the car VS the power of it that makes more of a difference...
JGraves
10-27-2003, 04:31 PM
Handling is important. Just look at Rob's lap times verses trap speed in that Super 7.
Chris P
10-27-2003, 05:13 PM
Handeling Vs. HP
http://www.redpepperracing.com/chat/converts/vader.gif
DECH_92
10-27-2003, 05:29 PM
Handling is everything, HP helps get you out of the corner and down the strait, but physics determines handling.
Above or below 3,000lbs. BIG DIFFERENCE
Same coarse, a 2,800 lb car will always be able to take the same corner faster then 3,200lb car with similar suspensions.
John P
10-27-2003, 06:15 PM
Its Handling vs Torque, forget Horsepower, it doesn't do much for you to get you out of a corner fast.
John
ice/solo racer
10-27-2003, 07:36 PM
Thats partly why I think maybe my crx with a b16 swap is classed a little too high,yes the car is lighter than what would be in sgt3 now but the b16 is lucky to put out a whopping 100ft lbs at about 7200rpm.
I do look forward to trying to slay the giants next year anyway!:D
Dave Barker
10-27-2003, 10:12 PM
John P , open wheeled cars such as wingless Formula Vs and FF 1600 s seem to do very well despite a lack of Torque and HP. Surely most of this is due to their handling which is in large part due to their low wgt.
Also as far as the Torque vs Hp discussion, neither will do you much good if all you get is wheel spin coming out of slower corners, which happens to all of us with live axle rear ends. Detroit lockers anyone??
RacerRick
10-28-2003, 08:51 AM
A softer, more compliant rear suspension to allow some weight transfer out of corners will help plant the rear end. Stick in a huge sway bar to keep it flat :)
I hear the mustang guys run 1000 in/lb springs in the front and stock 4cyl springs in the rear to get their cars coming out of corners straight.
haniforama
10-28-2003, 09:12 AM
http://www.redpepperracing.com/chat/converts/camaro.gif
ohhh the turbo upgrade has begun....
being built as we speak...
its a t04 tangial .84ar o-trim turbine, with a t3 footprint...with 360 deg thrust bearing, wet center section...with a to4 h-3 compressor section...
RacerRick
10-28-2003, 11:58 AM
I need two of those. :)
I was looking at 2 x T04B's with 0.84A/R housings, P trim turbine, and a H3 compressor, std T4 flanges, tangial housing.Haven't decided on water cooling or not since these are for the old dodge. I might have to go larger, like a pair of T66's from Precision to hit the HP levels I am looking for.
Where are you getting it? It should actually be comparable to the RayJay 301EE I have sitting at the shop for the Camaro.
It sounds like you are going for a bit more HP. I might have to steal the turbo if you make more power with your 2.4L than my 5.7L
TYSON
10-28-2003, 12:30 PM
Twin T66's?
You're looking for 1000 hp?:p
getting my turbo rebuilt at J&R in brampton.....
the reason why i upgraded the turbine section is to let the engine breath more top end....i mean whats the point of having over 300ftlbs torque at 4000rpm.....this way i can shift the whole peak power and torque up by maybe 500rpm...and get more peak power..and less overall restriction in the system..which also means less heat...
so overall i expect even at the same boost level to at least gain 20-30 more rwhp.....and as i slowly raise the boost up....it will make even greater gains....as the new larger turbine section will be able to power the compressor to even higher boost levels.....
i would expect that this turbo could power the car into the low 500rwhp range while staying in an efficient compressor range.....
i also have a custom turbo cam on order...though that might not get installed this winter...
its 451 lift and 214 duration..which should really be good for a turbo setup...
though that would boost the car into SGT2....
but the cam should make another 20-30rwhp..so it might be worth it?
you can see with my engine as it sits now....the h-3 compressor is really surging at almost all levels but near the top end of my power band....WELL its a race car so who cares......if i were gonna do it again i would have got a 50 trim t04e
BUT its VERY efficient at those boost levels.....this compressor coupled with my large intercooler works very well...since the turbo never falls out of the 70%+ efficiency range..
http://www.turbo240sx.ca/T04BH-3.gif
bring on that mullet eric....
hey that would be sad if a 2.4l 4cyl would out pull your turbo 5.7l
:)
RacerRick
10-28-2003, 02:24 PM
Yeah, but your rims cost more than my entire car will!
And the other motor I am building will be in the 1000rwhp range, on pump gas, and perfectly streetable. Too bad its not for the Mullet.
its about the speed....... not the cost ...
price is not that indicative of the speed potential .....look at vipers or porches
John P
10-28-2003, 03:26 PM
1000 rwhp in a mullet????
Your going to need those expensive rims and wide tires.
Your going to need plenty of driving instruction.
And a trailer to get what is left home.
John
RacerRick
10-28-2003, 04:01 PM
The big horsepower motor is going into my drag car, not the mullet. The mullet will have a very basic 350 chevrolet.
thats what you get for having a honda weed eater motor....
:)
Originally posted by ice/solo racer
Thats partly why I think maybe my crx with a b16 swap is classed a little too high,yes the car is lighter than what would be in sgt3 now but the b16 is lucky to put out a whopping 100ft lbs at about 7200rpm.
I do look forward to trying to slay the giants next year anyway!:D
ice/solo racer
10-28-2003, 04:51 PM
I disagree with you Adam on the "its about the speed-not the cost"comment,as a guy with nowhere near the funds to purchased the top shelf parts I think its more about how fast you can be for how much.
I rather enjoy outrunning guys that have the means to spend cubic dollars.Including the original purchase price,coilovers,race bushings,cams,wheels and other misc items I'll have a quick dependable(its a honda,not a grenade)track car for WAY WAY WAY less than you have into just your engine.
And if its competitive even better,so go ahead and crank up that boost-lets see how much you can spend!:D
Haven't you learned not to be cocky with those little honda weed eater motors?.
ScotcH
10-28-2003, 04:53 PM
lol :D
Originally posted by haniforama
http://www.redpepperracing.com/chat/converts/camaro.gif
ice/solo racer
10-28-2003, 08:59 PM
If I was the guy in the camaro I think I'd switch to a full face helmet-that way when the dash flies off from all that body twist it won't leave such a mark!
i 100% totally agree....there is nothing i enjoy better than to destroy vipers with my 14 year old truck motor powered car....
my cars performance is in the range past z06's and vipers ....so comparing that to what i have spent on the car....i have a pretty cheap car that performs.....
Originally posted by ice/solo racer
I disagree with you Adam on the "its about the speed-not the cost"comment,as a guy with nowhere near the funds to purchased the top shelf parts I think its more about how fast you can be for how much.
I rather enjoy outrunning guys that have the means to spend cubic dollars.Including the original purchase price,coilovers,race bushings,cams,wheels and other misc items I'll have a quick dependable(its a honda,not a grenade)track car for WAY WAY WAY less than you have into just your engine.
And if its competitive even better,so go ahead and crank up that boost-lets see how much you can spend!:D
Haven't you learned not to be cocky with those little honda weed eater motors?.
RacerRick
10-29-2003, 08:55 AM
I think I am going to have the least expensive car in Solo1. Most peoples shiny rims cost more that I am going to have in the car.
I think that as long as the fun:dollars quotient is in line, its all a good deal. Plus if I am actually competitive with a car that has a 30 year old suspension design and using all the best 70's technology, I think that would be just hilarious!
i think if you drop some weight and get the suspension sorted out well..the car will do well....
Shaman
10-29-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
my cars performance is in the range past z06's and vipers ....so comparing that to what i have spent on the car....i have a pretty cheap car that performs.....
When exactly was that proven?
I raise the bullshit flag. :)
haniforama
10-29-2003, 12:35 PM
http://www.redpepperracing.com/chat/converts/Mullet.gif
http://www.redpepperracing.com/chat/converts/bsflag.gif
:D
hmmm
240sx 2600lbs 350bhp
=7.42lbs per hp
z06 3118lbs 405bhp
=7.70lbs per hp
viper 3420lbs 450bhp
=7.60lbs per hp
which car is going to win at the track....hmmm
its the weight that gets you... this only shows what would happen in straight line battle.....but the weight differential would upset this compitition drastically since handling and cornering and braking is very dependant on weight
thats why those wretched civics are so good...
Originally posted by Shaman
When exactly was that proven?
I raise the bullshit flag. :)
i think we are going to see a time of imports reining supreme over thier very fat domestic tupperware clad competitors...
yeah you can pull 400-600hp out of a big V8....but mass is mass...and that cannot be changed ....
so if you have close power to weight statistics...then the lower weight car will always have the advantage....and that favours the imports...since most of them are nice and small and light....look at the super 7's
TYSON
10-29-2003, 02:05 PM
Sadly, it's not all about power to weight or horsepower per litre.
If that was the case, you might as well stay home.:p
Shaman
10-29-2003, 02:19 PM
I'm starting to wave my bullshit flag now. :)
It ain't a fact until it's a fact.
ice/solo racer
10-29-2003, 08:02 PM
I hope the light weight thing pans out as the crx will likely come in around 2200lbs with me aboard(I really need to lose another 20lbs!)and if I can afford the cams should have 180-85hp(still no tq though)which gives me over 11lbs per hp.
I certaily give up acceration to your turbo beastie off the corners,be interesting to see if the shorter braking(hopefully)and higher corner speeds(again hopefully)can get me close enough to scare you every now and then.:D
Oh and there's nothing wretched about these little civics,just good good wholesome lightness-and a decent suspension design.
Chris91GT
10-29-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
hmmm
240sx 2600lbs 350bhp
=7.42lbs per hp
z06 3118lbs 405bhp
=7.70lbs per hp
viper 3420lbs 450bhp
=7.60lbs per hp
which car is going to win at the track....hmmm
its the weight that gets you... this only shows what would happen in straight line battle.....but the weight differential would upset this compitition drastically since handling and cornering and braking is very dependant on weight
thats why those wretched civics are so good...
And that's why we small block V8 boys run substantially more rubber... then we can have the torque, the horsepower, the traction to put it down, and all the grip in the world. :D
Sure, that may not help on the DDT... but Mosport's big track has plenty of high-g sweepers that just love to have tons of rubber that those puny little 225s of yours just can't hack. hehe
And don't forget that us old small block V8 boys can jump on and off the throttle to "persuade" the car to do as we beckon... while your turbo says "wait, wait... I'm not ready... this little 2.4 needs boost!".
:p
Chris91GT
10-29-2003, 08:32 PM
Oh... and don't forget that the 0.18lbs/hp deficient Viper will have 2 car lengths on you out of the hole in a drag race before your turbo has even spooled. hehe
Such is the joy of cubic inches. :D
Shaman
10-29-2003, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Chris91GT
Sure, that may not help on the DDT... but Mosport's big track has plenty of high-g sweepers that just love to have tons of rubber that those puny little 225s of yours just can't hack. hehe
Someone's broken a 56.2 @ around the perimeter counterclockwise yet? Set by my car when it had about 40 less horsepower and stock brakes... solid axle and all. I'd like to take it back and try again on Hoosiers but sadly I think I'll be in something smaller and lighter by then, just for a change of scenery.
not yet i guess..these were the best times on the DDT perimeter counter clockwise last year in solo 1.....and they are no where near your time....when did you post this 56.2? since thats a whole 5.539 seconds better than the fastest lap we did this year...
1 Gord Allcock CCC 98 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Kumho 61.739 ( 95.902) 96.593
2 Adam Hutchinson HADA 89 Nissan 240SX Toyo 61.898 ( 99.468) 100.000
3 Blair Duguid BAC 02 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Kumho 62.193 ( 96.466) 97.686
4 John Smeets OMSC 80 Tiga Spec Racer Yokohama 62.544 ( 87.867) 89.322
5 Christian Sorensen TAC 96 BMW 328is Goodyear 63.197 ( 99.377) 100.000
mind you i find interesting that you came out to solo1 the day before the above times...
1 Robert Magro BAC 91 Lotus Super Seven Hoosier 67.448 ( 91.751) 93.743
2 Blair Duguid BAC 02 Chevrolet Corvette Kumho 68.815 ( 99.027) 100.000
3 John Smeets OMSC 80 Tiga Spec Racer Yokohama 69.335 ( 88.155) 89.096
4 Gord Allcock CCC 98 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Kumho 69.460 ( 94.229) 94.937
5 Adam Hutchinson HADA 89 Nissan 240SX Toyo 69.521 ( 74.852) 100.000
1 Steve Cole StLAC 98 Pontiac Pontiac WS6 Tr Kumho 71.124 ( 52.798) 96.055
Kingston Online Services / Agostino Racing / Madeley Auto
and your car did not even post in the top 10 ...of the results?
what happened?
if we extrapolate from your 56.2 ...then your time on this track should be... 10% faster than my posted time on this track....which would be 62.568 seconds...which would smoke the number one time of robs super 7 even...
and would be 8.555 seconds off the time you did that day....
what happened to the 8.555 seconds with your car....?
thats an awfull lot on a very small twisty track to lose...
haniforama
10-30-2003, 09:13 AM
Maybe they ran the kink?
he he...guess you have never driven a modern turbo charged car ...
there is little lag.....and there is no lack of torque...i would wager that the torque to LBS would still be better than the viper and z06....
plus the lighter the car....the easier it is to accelerate it...and stop it :)
Originally posted by Chris91GT
And that's why we small block V8 boys run substantially more rubber... then we can have the torque, the horsepower, the traction to put it down, and all the grip in the world. :D
Sure, that may not help on the DDT... but Mosport's big track has plenty of high-g sweepers that just love to have tons of rubber that those puny little 225s of yours just can't hack. hehe
And don't forget that us old small block V8 boys can jump on and off the throttle to "persuade" the car to do as we beckon... while your turbo says "wait, wait... I'm not ready... this little 2.4 needs boost!".
:p
Shaman
10-30-2003, 09:44 AM
What happened: sick car.
You have to back all the way to 2000 to find a time when I had my car sorted to race competitively (although last day of 2000 I broke a suspension part and that caused me understeer that got worse until the part finally let go totally). I'd say it's 95% of the way there right now but this year I didn't get myself together in time to make a real go of it.
You might have missed it, but I had a two year struggle with Agostino Racing to fix a bad engine build at their expense. Right now the car has 600km on it since the new block/motor was installed so I believe I'm going to move it this winter/spring and get into a small, fast car that likes autoX as well as Mosport.
thats the beauty of turbo power...the engine power is not fixed....what can the viper do....nothing...the power it has is the power it has.....
You really need to drop the crack pipe, dude. You're saying you can't turbo or inject nitrous into a Viper motor? :confused:
AirCooln
10-30-2003, 10:16 AM
So we seem to have two camps. One that says big V8 power vs. light and nimble.
I just saw this video, and I am offically sitting on the fence.
Got 3 minutes of your life to waste:
http://members.rogers.com/aircooln/video/minirace.wmv
ok....lets have a look.....
year 2000 nelson track...
1 Steve Cole N StLAC 98 Pontiac Firebird 56.249 ( 86.165) 97.500
year 2002 nelson track
running on street suspension... 9psi boost
2 Adam Hutchinson BAC 89 Nissan 240SX Toyo 55.531 ( 65.497) 98.849
hmmm thats already a 0.718 lead...
my car would do 52-53 on that track now easy....
where is all that V8 power ?
Originally posted by Shaman
What happened: sick car.
You have to back all the way to 2000 to find a time when I had my car sorted to race competitively (although last day of 2000 I broke a suspension part and that caused me understeer that got worse until the part finally let go totally). I'd say it's 95% of the way there right now but this year I didn't get myself together in time to make a real go of it.
You might have missed it, but I had a two year struggle with Agostino Racing to fix a bad engine build at their expense. Right now the car has 600km on it since the new block/motor was installed so I believe I'm going to move it this winter/spring and get into a small, fast car that likes autoX as well as Mosport.
chris....
i am saying light and nimble.....and big power and torque :)
the tupperware flaming chickens rustangs and I-ROCKS... just have the big power...
:)
ohhh the V8's time has come to an end...the imports will reign supreme...
technology is our friend...
Originally posted by AirCooln
So we seem to have two camps. One that says big V8 power vs. light and nimble.
I just saw this video, and I am offically sitting on the fence.
Got 3 minutes of your life to waste:
http://members.rogers.com/aircooln/video/minirace.wmv
Adam, we did not run the full counterclockwise perimeter at the DDT this year. Every DDT event used one or two of the kinks, so the lap times are not comparable.
Shaman
10-30-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by ADAM
1 Steve Cole N StLAC 98 Pontiac Firebird 56.249 ( 86.165) 97.500
Michelin Pilot Sports with a One Lap event on them. :D
yes you can of course...but we are comparing a stock viper not a turbocharged one....
now do the domestics need to really turbo thier 8 LITRE engine to keep up with a import.....
guess you proved my point
Originally posted by SHAMEN
You really need to drop the crack pipe, dude. You're saying you can't turbo or inject nitrous into a Viper motor? :confused:
alright then.....
what about the nelson times i posted....
Originally posted by Dave
Adam, we did not run the full counterclockwise perimeter at the DDT this year. Every DDT event used one or two of the kinks, so the lap times are not comparable.
hey Adam, who beat you at Nelson last year when you did that 55.5? Hehehe....
you got it baby......
YOU DID... the evil post head weasel....easily trashed my 240 that year...
BUT...you also had a 4cyl import.....and geese with what.....1.6 LITRE engine...
beating up on a 5.7l V8 beast?
whats up with that?
RacerRick
10-30-2003, 01:28 PM
How about a lightweight V8 turbo car? I don't know if it counts as modern technology though...
I may have just found a super cheap fibreglass hood for the mullet. 22lbs vs. 80lbs.
I went over my friends 72' Z28 and he weighs 3200lbs with him in it and it only has a glass' hood and the early lightweight bumpers.
I am on a mission to break 3000lbs with the mullet, legally. That car will give some of you GT1 folks a run, depending on the skill of the driver. I wanna win novice class!
Yeah, that was with my little 1.6L engine making about 170whp, as opposed to my old 1.8L 200whp engine. I think with the 1.8L engine I could have touched the high 53's on a good day at Nelson.
I would imagine Kenneth's RSX would be in the 54's or 53's at Nelson too. His car is damn fast and he's a top notch driver.
The Kensai Integra Type R doing 1:35's at the big track at Mosport is darn quick too. There aren't a lot of streetable V8's that can keep up with their ITR. Steve, what kind of times is your Firechicken good for at Mosport?
as dave turns the flames up.... :)
RacerRick
10-30-2003, 01:39 PM
Thats a full five seconds faster than my target lap times.
What class does that ITR run in?
if it were in solo 1 it would be most likely in sgt2 or sgt1...or one class higher
but if i remember kenniths RSX is faster than it already anyway....
no, the Kensai ITR is faster than Kenneth's RSX by about 2-3 seconds a lap at Mosport. It has a lot of body & trim points due to lightening that's been done to get it down to Touring GT weight, so it'd probably be in Improved at the least.
Shaman
10-30-2003, 03:34 PM
I've never raced the Firebird on the big track so I won't claim any time. I've driven it there of course, but never in competition mode.
Comparing highly modified, stripped-out, emissions-spewing small-engined cars to stock cars with all the comforts is pretty far-fetched to my mind. I'd far rather be in a stock Z06 or 911 or M3 than the most tricked-out race-prepped Integra or 240SX anyone's ever built (or likely to build). In the end, it'll still be an economy car.
its street vehicles vs street vehicles
Shaman
10-30-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
its street vehicles vs street vehicles
Well in that case, care to have a go at my GSX-R 1000?
my car passed emissions and was totally street legal, if a little on the noisy side with the gutted interior. But it still has a sound system, door panels, stock dash, and all that. It's really on the back portion that's been gutted and caged.
on a twisty track...sure...
what do those 1/4 mile in at ... low 10's
very dangerous little machines
but lets not digress here...we are talking about cars...not bikes or airplanes...or whatever.....
we are talking about licenced plated insured street vehicles....or if you want even unlicenced unplated uninsured..but at least based on the original car frame..
if you want i could put my 20lbs of carpet back in and my 15lbs of stereo..then take out the 100lbs of roll bars :)
we are talking about speed and performance....not name badges...otherwise i would rather have a lamborghini..cause i think they look neat...or a viper..cause i like the 8litre engine..
I want a USDM Lotus Elise with the 190hp Toyota engine. These things are drop dead gorgeous and purpose-built track machines with the lightness I love and the RWD config I want :)
he he...
"In the end, it'll still be an economy car."
yeah an economy car that beats all the cars you mentioned....
:)
if we wanted to drive in comfort..i would buy a rolling couch (lincoln)
so back to the issue at hand....
where are these street V8's that are killing the imports on the track...so far you have not given me any proof except for a time on the DDT on a configuration that we don't run on.....and have no other cars to base that time against...
calling on the V8's
where are the V8's
:)
we were supposed to see utter V8 domination this year.......against the imports.....
christ we had 500+rwhp V8's out this year...so where is the domination?
i want to see some domination......
..dave no nasty pics from you ok...
:)
show me the domination
but a new lambo.....come on..can you imagine rolling in one of those......
it would be crazy to pound on one of those...
i saw one the other day in brampton....
silver....it looked so low..like a pancake...
awesome....simply ...awesome....
Originally posted by Dave
I want a USDM Lotus Elise with the 190hp Toyota engine. These things are drop dead gorgeous and purpose-built track machines with the lightness I love and the RWD config I want :)
Chris P
10-30-2003, 04:04 PM
i'll take one of these thank you very much
http://crash.net/pictures/headline/67692.jpg
Not even JGTC stand a chance...ofcourse its all rule dependent but whatever.
Think i could raise it and put street tires on? :D
ok...how bout one of these bad boys with a built twin turbo kit...pumping out 1200rwhp and 1200ftlbs
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/pics/gtr20.jpg
ice/solo racer
10-30-2003, 04:27 PM
I'm with you Dave-I'll take a lotus elise over nearly anything else(for competition)I remember speedvision had some australian touring car a couple of years ago.
The grand touring (whatever they called it)was made up of corvettes,vipers and the like-one lonely little elise mixed in for kicks.It was astounding to watch the elise just about hang with the V8's on the long strait's and then just kill them on the brakes!:cool: .
Shaman if you'd like a light well balanced RWD car thats great for solo 1/2 and track days my corolla fits the bill pretty nicely.Not too hard to add some power with a 4agze supercharged engine,or turbo the standard 4ag or go NA and build something along the lines of a formular atlantic engine-its all available for the corolla.
The guy in the for sale section with the swift rally car for sale has the mr2 supercharger C/W intake etc that would nearly fit right on my engine-minor reworking of some coolant lines etc.
Shaman
10-30-2003, 05:33 PM
You know, this thread brings to mind the story about "counting the chickens before they hatch."
Oh, and no, Adam. High nines, bone stock... with Don Canet on the saddle, at least.
Originally posted by ADAM
ok...how bout one of these bad boys with a built twin turbo kit...pumping out 1200rwhp and 1200ftlbs
I had set aside funds to build myself one of those but a friend of mine that built one in the US told me his ended up costing him 90k US :( way over budget.
P.S. The stock Z06 LS6 would be enough. I know the car you are referring to and Kurt's car is way to crazy.
Chris91GT
10-30-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
ok...how bout one of these bad boys with a built twin turbo kit...pumping out 1200rwhp and 1200ftlbs
Hmmmm... lust above for 8L V10s and now this...? Adam, that's a V8 in that Ultima you know. :D Going soft already? hehehe
John P
10-31-2003, 02:41 AM
Adam is dreaming about a 700hp crate engine in his car, but doesn't have the nerve to tell anyone, so he is continuing with this turbo smack talk, just to deflect his dreams.
Maybe if he put one of those V8s babies in his little car his wife would smack him good????
John
RacerRick
10-31-2003, 08:43 AM
Hey Adam - if you want to make real power with about 400lbs engine weight I have a friend selling a nearly complete W8 headed R3 blocked 344ci Mopar
How much does your 4 banger weigh with all the turbo stuff hanging off it?
This is the same stuff they use in NASCAR. Just add the valvetrain of your choice and assemble. It's even already setup for pump gas. Its actually all new and never been run.
650hp NA with a 9000+ RPM capability :D Its a screaming deal but I can't afford it right now....
Chris91GT
10-31-2003, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by John P
Adam is dreaming about a 700hp crate engine in his car, but doesn't have the nerve to tell anyone, so he is continuing with this turbo smack talk, just to deflect his dreams.
Maybe if he put one of those V8s babies in his little car his wife would smack him good????
John
LOL!!! :D
i have no problems with v8's they are good motors...a bit big and heavy....but good....for making silly power...
Originally posted by Chris91GT
Hmmmm... lust above for 8L V10s and now this...? Adam, that's a V8 in that Ultima you know. :D Going soft already? hehehe
philip_240sx
11-02-2003, 11:46 AM
You had to pull out the Ultima GT-R didn't you.... :D
Originally posted by ADAM
ok...how bout one of these bad boys with a built twin turbo kit...pumping out 1200rwhp and 1200ftlbs]
hmmm the "paint booth" at ORF would make a nice home for a ultima project area :)
RacerRick
11-04-2003, 10:42 AM
But wouldn't the paint booth make a nicer paint booth?
There are lots of cars needing a little TLC in the paint department.
Like a red car with a scorched hood, a mullet, and at least one of those other 240's.
yeah...but as we start looking into it...its not so easy....
need explosion proof motors, fans, lights..grounded walls....ect....
tony mcgrath
11-05-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
yeah...but as we start looking into it...its not so easy....
need explosion proof motors, fans, lights..grounded walls....ect....
So that paint booth I have for sale is starting to look better and better??:)
Tony
RacerRick
11-06-2003, 08:19 AM
I work for large chemical company in communications. I am very familar with what is needed in explosion proof areas. I am assuming its Class 1 Div c,d requirements or straight Class 2.
Most of it is easy - just mount it outside the explosion proof area.
Fans are easy, mount the motors outside which would not be an explosion proof area. A birdcage fan is good for this and can be filtered easily without worrying about the motor.
Most non-incandesent lights are explosion proof even without a remote ballast, as long as the switch is mounted in a non-explosion proof area or is explosion proof. I have explosion proof phones if anyone wants to get fancy. Grounding the walls in that building will be wasy since they are metal to begin with.
Live wiring should be run in conduit - that is the only real thing I can think of. A grounding strap for the car might be in order, and the floor will definately have to be coated.
hmmm...maybe we should have a pow wow session about this.......
though i was also thinking that that room would make a great machine shop room...
places for materials and big lathes and such..
RacerRick
11-06-2003, 09:15 AM
It would make a good storage room also :) There seems to be tires accumulating there. One thing that that shop doesn't have is storage for people.
I thought you were keeping the spot next to the mill open for a lathe.
I can get free paint so a paint booth is good for me :) Guess who we make paint for in Alliston.
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