HELP! Ford 6.0L Diesel Problem

[thekid]

I'm having a problem with my 6.0L Ford Diesel in my 2005 Excursion.

I'm experiencing a coolant leak, which the dealership I've had diagnose it are reporting it as an excess pressure problem in the head which is causing the coolant to blow off from the reservoir. Their recommendation is for me to pay $14,000 on a new motor since the cylinder heads, head gaskets, and EGR cooler have all been replaced before and the problem returned again.

I don't have a lot of faith in this dealership, given that just before Xmas, they told me the coolant leak was due to a cracked rad. I replaced the rad myself over the holidays, and the leak still continued. I had my old rad pressure tested, and it appears to be fine, holds 25psi of pressure no issue (system pressure should be under 16psi).

Question #1: Does anyone have any good things to say about any Ford dealerships for Diesel diagnosis and repair as I've lost faith in my local dealer.

Question #2: Does anyone have any experience with Ford Customer Relations getting them to cover something like this, when less than 5000km out of the Power Train warranty? They are saying no way they would cover this because there is no known issues with this powertrain (which I know is inaccurate given all the issues people have had with the 6.0L Diesels).

Looking for help/advise on how to move forward. As you can probably imagine, I can't afford a $14k repair bill, if I pay that then I will have a tow vehicle, but no budget left to actually race! :confused:

[DEK]

If it is a crack or porosity from the combustion side of the engine, there is a way to test for combustion products in the coolant.(I think) Google that and see what you can find.

If the "known" problems you refer to are documented, perhaps a Senior person at Ford Customer Service MAY pay attention.

I used to have the envious job of telling people with a certain brand of luxury car that they
needed a $12K NEW motor just out of warranty. Rebuilds were not available.

DEK

[StewPiddass]

We had the coolant leak in our F450, dealer up here said it was the cracked rad (apparently common) and replaced it under warranty. We only noticed it because we happened to park the truck on pavement one day and I looked underneath, otherwise it's always on dirt.

[Slowpoke]

Double post, delete me please.

[Slowpoke]

Wearcheck.ca in Burlington can do the coolant analysis for combustion contamination I believe.

Not sure how it is with diesel trucks, but the key with most cars these days is to tie it to emissions, because the warranty is longer. Acura dealer in Mississauga swore up and down that my wife's TL needed a new ECU until I pointed out that the ECU is part of the emissions system and still covered under warranty. Then it suddenly became an oxygen sensor, which oddly enough, wasn't covered under the emissions warranty.

There's a place in Georgetown on Hwy 7 just NW of Trafalgar called "Diesel Doctors". They might be able to give you a second opinion, or might be aware of some "hidden warranty" coverage.

[SmokeScreen]

Answer to your first question, no faith in many dealers.
As for the pressure problem in the coolant system, if the heads, gaskets and egr have all been replced under warranty how the hell can they say there are no known issues! Here is a site tht has Ford diesel tsb's www.intellidog.com.
There is a tsb about 2005 trucks having the wrong degas bottle recall # 05B32. Have a look to see if it sounds like your problem.
Coolant Expelling From Degas Bottle:
Trucks built with the 6.0 PowerStroke engine may exhibit coolant loss, low coolant, or coolant blowing out of the degas bottle. First, ensure the coolant level is not too high and the expulsion is not due to normal expansion. The coolant level in the bottle at normal operating temperature should be at the MIN mark. 2005 trucks should be checked to see if recall 05B32 applies to them.
The coolant bottle cap should be checked to see if it is capable of holding 16 PSI, and it is sealing properly on the coolant bottle. Pressure test the cooling system to verify there are no leaks. Note: It is advised to either disconnect the right exhaust manifold from the right side turbo Y-pipe, or to raise the rear of the vehicle and remove the EGR valve to check for an EGR cooler leak. Failure to do so may result in a hydralically-locked cylinder. Repair any leaks as necessary.
Inspect the coolant for oil, which would indicate a leaking oil cooler. Check the engine oil sensor reading against the coolant temp sensor. An EOT that is 25 degrees higher may indicate a failed oil cooler. On Econolines, if the engine oil cooler is replaced, the heater core inlet hose should be replaced with part 5C2Z-18472-AA, which includes an internal restrictor. If oil is present in the cooling system, the system will have to be cleaned using a solution of 1/2 cup low-sudsing liquid dishasher detergent to six gallons of water, possibly up to three times. Flush the system afterwards with clean water.
If the coolant expulsion occurs under high load conditions, suspect head gaskets that are leaking compression into the cooling system. It may be necessary to test drive the truck with a pressure gauge TEE'd into a hose and the cooling system sealed so it will not vent to verify over-pressure. When replacing the head gaskets, it is necessary to install new head bolts--they are not reusable. There is a revised torque sequence and specification for the head bolts. The head gasket kits have been revised to include parts needed in the service, but the gaskets themselves are not updated. Recommend using kit 5C3Z-6079-B, which includes all parts for both sides of the engine and covers 2003-2005. You will have to purchase the two intake manifold to head gaskets, oil filter, oil filter base o-ring, oil vent tube o-ring and heater pipe to timing cover o-ring seperately. Note: The turbo should be checked for sticking/overboost to prevent reoccurance of the head gaskets blowing.
TSB 06-3-8.
By the way I have been working on these engines in various chassis since 2005, both the Ford version and the Interntional version. Head gaskets can fail if the turbo is sticking and overboosting or the I have heard it happening with "chipped" trucks.

[SmokeScreen]

www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/60bulletin.htm

that takes you to the bulletin page, part way down is the coolant bottle one. This guys stuff is accurte too, I have used it many times

[gearhead]

I'm having a problem with my 6.0L Ford Diesel in my 2005 Excursion.

I'm experiencing a coolant leak, which the dealership I've had diagnose it are reporting it as an excess pressure problem in the head which is causing the coolant to blow off from the reservoir. Their recommendation is for me to pay $14,000 on a new motor since the cylinder heads, head gaskets, and EGR cooler have all been replaced before and the problem returned again.

I don't have a lot of faith in this dealership, given that just before Xmas, they told me the coolant leak was due to a cracked rad. I replaced the rad myself over the holidays, and the leak still continued. I had my old rad pressure tested, and it appears to be fine, holds 25psi of pressure no issue (system pressure should be under 16psi).

Question #1: Does anyone have any good things to say about any Ford dealerships for Diesel diagnosis and repair as I've lost faith in my local dealer.

Question #2: Does anyone have any experience with Ford Customer Relations getting them to cover something like this, when less than 5000km out of the Power Train warranty? They are saying no way they would cover this because there is no known issues with this powertrain (which I know is inaccurate given all the issues people have had with the 6.0L Diesels).

Looking for help/advise on how to move forward. As you can probably imagine, I can't afford a $14k repair bill, if I pay that then I will have a tow vehicle, but no budget left to actually race! :confused:

Quite common.Did you have all the servicing done at a Ford dealer?If you did the Ford dealer can apply for "Goodwill assistance" from Ford.But Ford has tightened up in the last while on warranty claims(as all the manufactures have!)and bounce claims on lack of service records quite frequently.I would talk to the service manager to have your case reviewed.

[coneman]

Up till last year I was a service manager for a large truck rental company in Oshawa and I looked after a fairly large fleet of 6.0 L Powerstroke units. Most of our coolant troubles were caused from cracked rads, EGR coolers and degas bottles. Out of 60 units we had one that needed a set of heads due to cracks. Unfortunately that one was hard to pin down the cause.
I had very good service from Marigold Ford in Whitby. We sent our units that were still under warranty to them and the turn around was very quick.

[SmokeScreen]

On international aplications I have seen egr coolers that leak almost right away after replacement. A leaky cooler can put exhuast under pressure into the coolant. How long ago was the egr cooler changed?
Due to the higher than normal costs for Ford on this engine there is no slack cut to customers once the warranty is up. The company I work for has had vehicles out by less than 1000km and told failures were not going to be covered. There are no Ford dealers I would recommend in my area, but have never dealt with the one mentioned earlier.

[thekid]

Thank you very much for everyone's replies, this will definitely give me some direction in how I follow-up.

The problem described with the degas bottle does sound similar to what is happening, so I'll have to see if that's been replaced under the TSB.

EGR Cooler was last replaced at 91k, so it sounds like it could also be a likely culprate.

If anyone else has suggestions, keep them coming, I'll be following up on some these ideas to see what's next!

[SmokeScreen]

Keep us posted on how you make out on this and/or what you find out.

[preludeking]

Specific 6.0L discussion, help, advice and diagnosis. With ford diagnosis through commonalities its usually 90% right...lol.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum107/

Excursion help.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum29/

I found these forums amazing and very very helpfull. Sorry to hear about all your 6.0 problems (however not uncommon).

From most of what i have heard (no personal experience) many people locally have all had the best experienced with orangeville ford. I know many people from all parts of toronto go all the way up there for service and repairs.

[Chris Lawson]

I live very close to the Diesel Doctors, if you want me to stop in and see them on your behalf, let me know.

Chris

[thekid]

Thanks again for the advice and support.

I have contacted a few shops, Diesel Doctors included, and everyone seems to be in agreement, that based on the history of this motor, a reman is probably the best route to go, because the problem is likely to come back if I just did the Head Gaskets and Heads since this would be the 3rd time the heads will be off the motor.

Despite being just out of warranty, I have managed to get Ford to agree to pay for 55% of the repairs, which isn't the best situation to be in, but it's certainly better than nothing. Fortunately this will give me a remanufactured motor with updated parts (ie larger head bolts) and new components (including the Turbo, EGR Cooler, etc), and I will have a 2yr/40k warranty.