Limiting the number of entrants?

[eddie 82]

So you're running a club-level event, and are expecting registration to be in the 40-60 driver range (pretty common for our area).

Out of the blue, you are faced with well over 100 competitors waiting in line to register.

What do you do?
Limit the number of drivers?

Shorten/quicken the course?

Say yes to everyone, and risk having a low number of runs, like 3 or 4?

Run the event for a longer period of time (if possible)?

[Nissan Racer]

Well my opinion will likely upset some people, but here goes.
Since the CASC-OR rulebook (this may change with the new CNAC rules coming) only require 3 scoring runs, I think all events should only have three scoring runs, either you can put in a good run or you can't. After that allow as many fun runs as possible to be squeezed in before end of day, lots of test and tune is possible that way, as well as being able to work on technique without the pressure of scoring, as well as getting ride along coaching from better drivers who are done their scoring runs and might be willing to help out since they don't have to worry about the next run.

[finboy]

pitl events are limited, we try to design the course for the numbers we get at an average event.

trying to get the second car out is imporant, in terms of safety, and maxing the number of runs we can squeeze in

all depends on the club.




personally.. i'd like to have a private series..
invite x amount of people from the different clubs, who are active
& volunteer without having to be asked.. the usual clowns

start early finish early.. have as manyruns as you want

and end early.. i think that would be wicked..

sure its nice to have a sport grow.. but i think solo II is the best keep secret around, how many people have found it by accident??

my guess is.. most of you...

anyhow... its good that people have their choices of events to go to....

otherwise, i'd be pretty boring.. different strokes for different folks

[gatherer]

Originally posted by Nissan Racer
Well my opinion will likely upset some people, but here goes.
Since the CASC-OR rulebook (this may change with the new CNAC rules coming) only require 3 scoring runs, I think all events should only have three scoring runs, either you can put in a good run or you can't. After that allow as many fun runs as possible to be squeezed in before end of day, lots of test and tune is possible that way, as well as being able to work on technique without the pressure of scoring, as well as getting ride along coaching from better drivers who are done their scoring runs and might be willing to help out since they don't have to worry about the next run.

I like that Idea.....

it could mean having the afternoon free....

on another note it is possible with good course design to get in 6 runs and some fun runs after that .....

[andrew1984]

the problem with autocross is the lack of seat time.

im happy with 10 runs. even if this means only 3 timed runs.

[Logan]

I think the rules next year should have 4 runs as a minimum. And we allow 50% more competitors than series registered.

ie there are 50 series registered, we will then allow 25 walk-ins, even if we don't get all 50 series registered people there.

The series guys take this seriously (some do anyway), and we want our runs, we want the chance to get faster.

We get as many runs as we can in during the day. It makes it worth your money and your time (I know I know, it's already dirt cheap).

If you want to come and play once in a while, go to a club level only event, or go to the PITL events.

The Series events should be for Series competitors.

[AlienDNA]

I'd say shortening the course is out of the question. I think we can all agree the longer the course the better.

I'd say the best option is to limit the number of competitors with preference given to club / series registered competitors as appropriate.

[haniforama]

Keep the course the same length, just make the corners faster...

Lap times will drop and smiles will get wider :)

[haniforama]

Length = distance (not time).

[Marsh]

Well I would do both. I would limit the number of entrants, but I would do it by simply closing registration when we say we will. I'm getting really sick of people showing up late and expecting to get in. We turned away a few people in the fall series.

Now assuming a crazy number of people actually get in to the event, we would run as many runs as we can and if we fall short we fall short. If the course had been designed as a two lapper then we'd remove the second lap. But now we know better than to design a two lap course in the summer anyway.

[tanney]

The Series events should be for Series competitors.

I agree and disagree with this statement. Your right that the series should be for the series competitors, but how do you get more and new series competitors without letting potential competitors get their feet wet.

I ran my first regional event in 1999, I showed up, was welcomed with open arms, told my car was in the wrong class change it or face a protest, then I proceeded to have a great day. (Finished 3rd of 4, one spot out of the trophies)

Although I didn't run the Regional Series in 2000, I ran enough events that I should have series registered.....

Now, if I would have been turned away at any of these events because I was not series registered (as apposed to showing up late), I would have said "f$%^ you", walked away and probably would not have been further involved in the sport, ever!

It's a fine line and I'm sure this debate will rage on forever, at the club, regional or national levels.

[Logan]

That's just it Wes, everyone should feel welcome at club events.
No matter who you are, come play for the day, relax, enjoy yourself.

But the series events should be limited to only a few non-series competitors.

[Nissan Racer]

I agree with Marsh, post a cut off time and/or a set limit of competitors. If you show up late. There's always the next event. The series guys know what time to show up, get there early and theres no problem. Maybe have a deadline of something like 8:30 for series competitors and 9:00 for anyone else.

[tanney]

But most regional events are club events as well (or atleast count towards some type of club series.

In 2000 I went to club events and when I got there found out that a lot of these were regionals. I didn't care, I just wanted to run and have fun.

Again, if I would have been turned away after driving all the way to CFB Mountainview (for example) south of Belleville, I would have been pissed off, big time.

[eddie 82]

Originally posted by Nissan Racer
Maybe have a deadline of something like 8:30 for series competitors and 9:00 for anyone else. Shouldn't that be the other way around?

:confused:

[finboy]

when you get a decent Local club turn out... and a Regional event combined..

for the lots i've seen, and the number of people it would suck..

the only event where you could work large numbers and have a decent course was like the one at the top gun shootout

you could stack more cars on the course, have a combined tight section, with a fast open one

and everyone would have a great time

Regional numbers, and Club numbers mix like water and oil


again... that's why there are club events vs. regional ones..

people want different things for different reasons

[Nissan Racer]

Originally posted by eddie 82
Shouldn't that be the other way around?

:confused:
Regional competitors know when to show up, newbies might not.

[AlienDNA]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by eddie 82
Shouldn't that be the other way around?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Regional competitors know when to show up, newbies might not.


But regional competitors may have a longer trip to get to the venue than local club members...

[Logan]

[/b]

But regional competitors may have a longer trip to get to the venue than local club members... [/B]

True, but for some reason I don't mind getting up at 5AM on a sunday to drive for a few hours to have fun. I like to be there early so I have lots of time to walk the course, prep the car, etc etc

[Chris P]

Some of you guys don't realize the just how depleted regional numbers were only just a few years ago. The regional series was having quite a bit of trouble attracting poeple. I would argue that the same problem is existent today. Sure there are alot of compeditors. But how many of them are truely regional level of driving and car preparation. Not as many as you would think. Until ontario SOLO develop's a better foundation of drivers(its coming........all you new people are the future) no thoughts of discrimenation should take place, actually i don't think they should ever take place.
if 200 or 300 people show up to a regional event.....GOOD Welcome them, adjust the course and #of runs to suit. Most of the new people will realize regional events are not the best place to get seat time and in the future will attend club events. When they are ready and decide compitition is more important then seat time they will move back to regional. And maybe with 200 cars some of the classes will be filled.

As far as regional registration is concerned this issue is closed and i don't think their will be any changes.

Club discussion continue...
:p

[finboy]

Originally posted by Chris P

if 200 or 300 people show up to a regional event.....GOOD Welcome them, adjust the course and #of runs to suit. Most of the new people will realize regional events are not the best place to get seat time and in the future will attend club events. When they are ready and decide compitition is more important then seat time they will move back to regional. And maybe with 200 cars some of the classes will be filled.

As far as regional registration is concerned this issue is closed and i don't think their will be any changes.

Club discussion continue...
:p

someone pass Chris some coffee.. is there a club that has the venue to host 200-300 drivers??

if there is... the run would be 20 seconds long!!

we're still talking about having a quality event, with more than 3 runs

3 runs doesn't mean maximum.. it should be the minimum

sure they only do 3 runs in the states... but do we as a solo ii community want to drive somewhere pay 30-40 bucks for 3 runs?

... people drive 2-3 hours to compete against the cream of the crop in different areas

until the clubs can handle that many numbers.. keep it managable, and competitive

[TFGR]

Originally posted by tanney
but how do you get more and new series competitors without letting potential competitors get their feet wet.


I loved the fact that anyone could run, and agree 100% that it should stay that way.
This is an amateur sport and should remain that way.
I saw a lady at an early PITL event last year take 2.5 mins to get around the cones in her first ever run. I said "give me a break" while whe was running, but changed my view when I saw her replacing the loaner helmet with a mile wide grin on her face.

[finboy]

Originally posted by TFGR
I loved the fact that anyone could run, and agree 100% that it should stay that way.
This is an amateur sport and should remain that way.
I saw a lady at an early PITL event last year take 2.5 mins to get around the cones in her first ever run. I said "give me a break" while whe was running, but changed my view when I saw her replacing the loaner helmet with a mile wide grin on her face.

are you shaving your legs too?? you must be a hada guy

i agree that newbies should be welcome, but things have to be managed properly..

NOTHING is more enjoyable than seeing new people come back after their first clean run.. you're right.. grin ear to ear

the clubs who have been running solo II have been doing it for a long time

they plan for x amount of people, and run their events that way

if we had every newbie take that long.. it would be poo for the majority of people who made it to the event

i'd like to see the clubs cater more towards keeping the current players around year after year..

becuase everyone wants to cater to the newbies.. the "ol timers"
get frustrated..

-marshaling
-lack of volunteers
-peple not running in order
-end of a heat, waiting for numbers the beginning cars to line up
-courses have to be designed more for "newbies vs. more challenging for the regulars"
-the large numbers..
-the venue
-the classing structures

sure there are reasons why people come and go in this sport..
but i'd like it to be for other reasons


in my opnion... the top gun is one of the best run, most fun solo ii events of the year.

because the numbers are smaller, the course is more fun, and the people attending are there to have a good time


dave t

[Nissan Racer]

Originally posted by Chris P
Some of you guys don't realize the just how depleted regional numbers were only just a few years ago. The regional series was having quite a bit of trouble attracting poeple. I would argue that the same problem is existent today. Sure there are alot of compeditors. But how many of them are truely regional level of driving and car preparation. Not as many as you would think. Until ontario SOLO develop's a better foundation of drivers(its coming........all you new people are the future) no thoughts of discrimenation should take place, actually i don't think they should ever take place.
if 200 or 300 people show up to a regional event.....GOOD Welcome them, adjust the course and #of runs to suit. Most of the new people will realize regional events are not the best place to get seat time and in the future will attend club events. When they are ready and decide compitition is more important then seat time they will move back to regional. And maybe with 200 cars some of the classes will be filled.

As far as regional registration is concerned this issue is closed and i don't think their will be any changes.

Club discussion continue...
:p
I agree totally, the only reason I like the idea of a cutoff time is there should be a time set when registration is over and its time to run. If everyone gets held up because of one or two stragglers (and from what I've seen it is usually only one or two)

[ice/solo racer]

200 hundred at an event would be great-that would mean oh around 75-80 guys in BSS(old rules):rolleyes:

Oh and Finboy I'm a hada member-how bout I hold you down while the rest of the members take turns giving you a complete waxing.You know a COMPLETE waxing including underarms and bikini zones!!:eek:

What was I thinking,your a miata guy and as we all know they are a cute little girlie car.You might already being doing that anyway.

Oh and the biggest problem is clubs not sticking to agenda's at all,if registration ends at X time it ends at X time.Driver's meeting times should be stuck to regiously as well,runs should begin right after meeting as well.
Bugs the hell outa me to allow more course walks after the meeting which is usually an hour late or more allready.If I can make the effort to hit the highway well before dawn the least the event organizers can do is follow their own schedule.

[AlienDNA]

Originally posted by Logan
True, but for some reason I don't mind getting up at 5AM on a sunday to drive for a few hours to have fun. I like to be there early so I have lots of time to walk the course, prep the car, etc etc

I agree 100% with that, but I think you have to make allowances for traffic and weather and such. Y'know, best laid plans of mice and men and all...

Of course, Ryan's original question was about club-level events, so just ignore me blathering on about regional events and timing.

[TFGR]

Originally posted by finboy
are you shaving your legs too?? you must be a hada guy

i agree that newbies should be welcome, but things have to be managed properly..

NOTHING is more enjoyable than seeing new people come back after their first clean run.. you're right.. grin ear to ear

the clubs who have been running solo II have been doing it for a long time

they plan for x amount of people, and run their events that way

if we had every newbie take that long.. it would be poo for the majority of people who made it to the event

i'd like to see the clubs cater more towards keeping the current players around year after year..

becuase everyone wants to cater to the newbies.. the "ol timers"
get frustrated..

-marshaling
-lack of volunteers
-peple not running in order
-end of a heat, waiting for numbers the beginning cars to line up
-courses have to be designed more for "newbies vs. more challenging for the regulars"
-the large numbers..
-the venue
-the classing structures

sure there are reasons why people come and go in this sport..
but i'd like it to be for other reasons


in my opnion... the top gun is one of the best run, most fun solo ii events of the year.

because the numbers are smaller, the course is more fun, and the people attending are there to have a good time


dave t

Ummmm no I don't belong to HADA...I drive a VW. Although HADA have good people and make an excellent club. its hard to knock them for anything other than driving Honda's/Acura's.
The whole idea of Solo2 for me is having fun, as you stated.
We should however not change the structure of this entry level grassroots, low cost, ametuer motorsport.....simply because old timers are getting sick of putting more time in than they already have.
If they don't like it....they can go do Solo1 or sprints/regional racing.
Entrant limits should be set be each individual club. A time entry limit is the fairest way.....either at the event on via website. That way new and old competitiors have the same chance to register. Once the number limit is met.....all others are turned away.

I think all should take cues from the TLMC first come first serve way of managing entrants. Maybe allowing club members the ability to register for an event prior to the event.....as a membership benefit!

[Martini Focus]

What about having registration sheets that are downloadable. That would cut down the time it takes for people to register.

But then again if people can't get to the event on time in the first place what are the odds that they will remember to fill out the sheet and bring it with them.

[ice/solo racer]

TFGR,as a TLMC member for this current year I would suggest that few things they do be adopted by other clubs.Club presidents/members screaming at people thru bull horns,about an hour and a half of solid marshalling(no rotations)poor classing system all can make for a less than fun day.
They do however have a great lot and reasonable course layouts(mostly because of the big lot),I will be a hada member from now on.
Oh yeah,I'm hardly one of the old timers but don't group me or most of the others on this forum into the "us old timers are sick of the newbies screwing up our perfect event"picture that finboy paints.
He's always stirring up s**t like this!;)

[Logan]

Originally posted by Martini Focus
What about having registration sheets that are downloadable. That would cut down the time it takes for people to register.

But then again if people can't get to the event on time in the first place what are the odds that they will remember to fill out the sheet and bring it with them.

Well series competitors have already completed the sheet that can be used at each event.
One of the problems (sometimes) has been one line for series and non-series registrants.
But yes, for club events, having a sheet already completed would certainly make life easier.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
TFGR,as a TLMC member for this current year I would suggest that few things they do be adopted by other clubs.Club presidents/members screaming at people thru bull horns,about an hour and a half of solid marshalling(no rotations)poor classing system all can make for a less than fun day.
They do however have a great lot and reasonable course layouts(mostly because of the big lot),I will be a hada member from now on.
Oh yeah,I'm hardly one of the old timers but don't group me or most of the others on this forum into the "us old timers are sick of the newbies screwing up our perfect event"picture that finboy paints.
He's always stirring up s**t like this!;)

Don't forget non members essentially being told not to come back (Last year, when Pat, Wes and myself all showed up at the same event as you and Lisa and we were 1st through 5th)

[ice/solo racer]

Marsh I didn't know that you guys were asked to not come back,hell Lisa and I weren't members either before this season.Thats certainly not very sportsman like is it(musta been Mavis),what would it matter as since the top 5 was filled with non members it wouldn't effect the club titles at all since none of us got between club members for points.
That was a good day,just go's to show how seriously us regional guys take the sport I guess;)

(I noticed you didn't mention the finish order,Lisa was smoking that day huh!:o )

[finboy]

hey tommyboy... who said you guys would have anything to shave?? :D ... let me know when you hada guys can meet up..
i need to make some more money from my webcam

i need new parts for my girlycar

just keep Dave P away... i've heard some weird stuff, and i think hada shoud bring back those slick shorts.. the ones where preet lost a bet and had to wear

im not sure what it reads in the regional rule book.. but for the club events a course walk through might be optional.. who knows

one thing though.. we get a poo load of newbies who walk the course, or don't walk it enough, or have no clue where they're going..

that "official" walk, probably saves a bunch of off-course runs..


TFGR if it wasn't for the many "old timers" the sport would have gone to the crappers... back in 96 around the GTA the sport was down, and grew because of a few instrumental people like Barry S, his site played a huge roll.. i mean big time in getting the sport the way it is today (chris p mentioned how poor the regional series was around that time)

its the guys who don't post who i'm referring to.. scary but true
a few guys think the same way

Simon. the download thing is a good idea.. but 99% are guys
and can't remember to bring their helmet left on the kitchen table

sounds good on paper.. but i'd bet against it working (the closest thing to this is the way the regional solo II events work for registration.. works well.. then again wendy is organized too)

the car number and scoring works well for the regional series, but
then the numbering becomes an issue, when its a club AND regional event

is twin lakes joining the regional series??? just wondering


dave t

[Chris P]

who loves short shorts..........

[TFGR]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
TFGR,as a TLMC member for this current year I would suggest that few things they do be adopted by other clubs.Club presidents/members screaming at people thru bull horns,about an hour and a half of solid marshalling(no rotations)poor classing system all can make for a less than fun day.
They do however have a great lot and reasonable course layouts(mostly because of the big lot),I will be a hada member from now on.
Oh yeah,I'm hardly one of the old timers but don't group me or most of the others on this forum into the "us old timers are sick of the newbies screwing up our perfect event"picture that finboy paints.
He's always stirring up s**t like this!;)

Ya....i've been a TLMC member for the last several years and generally have enjoyed myself while there. As far as entrants go, I think they do a good job by both having a cutoff time and limit number. If clubs want to bolster membership, they should do this rather than trying to have as many people(mo money) as possible at each event which in turn makes for less runs and more unhappy people......old timers and newbies. Unhappy people new or old will make for a very weak future for this motorsport.

Also, i'm not trying to paint any picture of new or old solo2 competitors. If you actually read my first post, that is how I feel. I think that all new solo competitors should have the same availibility of events as older competitors (which I am one) Newbies are what will continue to feed this sport. I personally have championed a few new VW competitors to the sport this last season, and guess which events they like. Ones with more runs! We should try encourage these type of events, because they are the most fun for everyone.

[Taylor]

I can't believe we're discussing limiting registrants or entry when we have so many underfilled classes.

One (better) solution to late registrants is a penalty fee. They have to pay an elevated entry. It's insane to send someone walking when they just spend 1-3 hours driving to your event and got held up for.. I dunno, a flat tire. Or pulled over for a ticket, or anything more or less out of their control. Hell even sleeping in a bit. I'd rather they hustled and showed than just decided "well they won't let me in, so I guess I just lost my chance for overall (or class), or whatever". I agree there should be a penalty, but hit them in the wallet. Or drop a run... something.

Course as it is now, you can be late for registration but the line is still so fricking slow and long that no one would know. If the clubs could actually be able to empty that line by registration close then maybe the clubs/series have something to complain about. But frankly getting up that much earlier, or sacrificing that much more of my previous night to make sure I make registration cut-off only to have to stand in line an extra 45 minutes is frustrating.

I think online registration is the way to go. If you're name is on that list, you're registered, if you don't show, or show... what does the club care? The late arrival isn't holding anyone up and the organizers have their entry fee. That's whats always driven me nuts about Solo 1. I register (pay) for the event, can't get a refund on the day of competition, but run the risk of not being allowed to compete because I'm not there by 8:30 even though the first run of competition often isn't for a couple more hours. Ridiculous. You have my info and my money, if I want sleep instead of morning lapping, let me.

[finboy]

hey man.... this is a solo II thread

we got our own problems over here

[Marsh]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
Marsh I didn't know that you guys were asked to not come back,hell Lisa and I weren't members either before this season.Thats certainly not very sportsman like is it(musta been Mavis),what would it matter as since the top 5 was filled with non members it wouldn't effect the club titles at all since none of us got between club members for points.
That was a good day,just go's to show how seriously us regional guys take the sport I guess;)

(I noticed you didn't mention the finish order,Lisa was smoking that day huh!:o )

I thought I beat Lisa?:confused: I remember I wasn't 5th. Maybe I beet Wes? Anyway everyone was friendly to our face, but at the end of the day they got on the blow horn and said that they were going to start making the events for members only so if you weren't going to pay for a membership you shouldn't come back. I was pretty pissed since I drove 3 hours to get there, and I'm sure as hell not going to join their club for the one or two times a year I run their event.

[haniforama]

TLMC has always been open and friendly with me. The only drawback to their event (IMO) is typically a stoopid-tight section near the start/finish. A slightly better layout here (keeping in mind the timing constraints) would lead to a better flow to the event.

But when there are only 20-40 competitors, 7 runs are had by all.

Hanif

[J.C.]

TLMC last year was using a cut off of 50. It was on a first come first serve deal. It did not matter if you were a member or not. How do I know because I was a member and there were times that I was unable to run because they were already full by the time that I got there.(usually 8:30am) These were just club events and club memebers were a minority at these events. So in short I do not agree with limiting entrants as there is very little else that will turn a person off to solo II as much.

[finboy]

thats whacked man

but then again... a club can do what they want...

each club has their own way of doing things..

if people don't like the way things are run...

- don't go
- start your own club and host your own events
the way you want to run them

[ice/solo racer]

Sorry Marsh,your right it was Lisa that finished 5th.The order was Pat,Wes,me,you and then Lisa-still not too bad for her to be 5th outright.
With regards to walk thru's,I don't think that there needs to be an official walkthru after the drivers meeting as it simply takes up another 45 minutes or so when we could of had a close to a complete run in for everyone.Most times the bulk of the people I've seen are able to arrive change tires and still have time for 2 or more walk thru's before the meeting(which also seem to take up to much valuable time imo).
If your late you should suffer without enough walk thru's,why hold up an entire event because of a dozen or so people not serious enough to arrive on time?.I always aim to leave an hour or so before I think I need to so I arrive when registration is supposed to OPEN to close.If I can get up in time to drive 3 hours with a 2 year old in tow and be on time I don't have any sympathy for someone that lives in the gta and is still late.
TLMC members could prepay the season and have their spot held,so it wasn't exactly first come first served with no regards to members at all.
I agree with Taylor,don't send people packing for being late,once they start having to pay a late penalty they will either be on time the next event or not come back-not comeing back isn't ideal but if thats all it took to keep them away they wouldn't likely be attending many events before not coming back anyway.

[TFGR]

I think online registration is the way to go. If you're name is on that list, you're registered, if you don't show, or show... what does the club care? The late arrival isn't holding anyone up and the organizers have their entry fee. That's whats always driven me nuts about Solo 1. I register (pay) for the event, can't get a refund on the day of competition, but run the risk of not being allowed to compete because I'm not there by 8:30 even though the first run of competition often isn't for a couple more hours. Ridiculous. You have my info and my money, if I want sleep instead of morning lapping, let me.

God knows, I really hate agreeing with Taylor. But I have to on this one.
Online registration is an excellent idea. Cha ching....take my credit card info and let me be late cuz the garbage needs taking out or the dog needs walking or the traffic is bad.
You would have to post online signup start dates for each event and have immediate update for the competitor list, but that is easy.

[tanney]

Online registration is an excellent idea. Cha ching....take my credit card info and let me be late cuz the garbage needs taking out or the dog needs walking or the traffic is bad.
The problem with this in terms of the regional series is that every club is responsible for setting fees and collecting monies at their event (unless the club agrees to let the series registrar handle the money and not all clubs seem to want that to happen).

Not to mention the service charges for having a credit card service. CASC-OR's new website will be able to handle on-line registration and if the new system works and all the clubs agree.......maybe we will be able to do on-line registration.

[TFGR]

Originally posted by tanney
The problem with this in terms of the regional series is that every club is responsible for setting fees and collecting monies at their event (unless the club agrees to let the series registrar handle the money and not all clubs seem to want that to happen).

Not to mention the service charges for having a credit card service. CASC-OR's new website will be able to handle on-line registration and if the new system works and all the clubs agree.......maybe we will be able to do on-line registration.

Wes, you must agree that this would be a boon in many differnt ways for Solo motorsport. Easier for the clubs as well.

[Cliffy]

Originally posted by tanney
The problem with this in terms of the regional series is that every club is responsible for setting fees and collecting monies at their event (unless the club agrees to let the series registrar handle the money and not all clubs seem to want that to happen).

Not to mention the service charges for having a credit card service. CASC-OR's new website will be able to handle on-line registration and if the new system works and all the clubs agree.......maybe we will be able to do on-line registration.

At the VCMC Motorpsort Club (www.vcmc.ca) we use Karelo (www.karelo.com) as our online payment processing system. We pay a fee and they setup the accounts. It's very simple. We have online registration for all of our events and functions including the portion of regional championship events that we host. Once a person is registered, all he has to do is show up for tech, course maps and waiver signing. On the night before the event all the online registration info is dumped int oour T&S system (AutoX TS) and we are good to go for the event. We also do computerized registration at the event site and have completely eliminated time cards.

Once a person has signed up for one of our events, he gets a barcode. Every other time he comes back, all we do is scan his barcode and he's registered. You won't believe how fast our registration lines move now. This alone has allowed us more time for actual competition. We can start our event as much as an hour earlier and be done in time for extra fun runs in some cases.

The other function of the barcode is for T&S. We no longer collect time cards in grid and no one really has to stay in gridded order. Once a competitor pulls up to the staging line, we scan the barcode and all his info comes up one screen. We simply enter the time and penalties after his run. We can pre-scan up to 8 competitors I think. The next phase of automation is to have the timer directly linked to the T&S database so that data entry is minimized to only entering the cone penalties.

This system was used @ CNAC in Red Deer this past year and I beleive it ws featured in an article of North American Pylon ealrier this year. If you wish to know more, please contect me and I'll put you in touch w/ the right people.

The other time saver is the amount of 'overlap' designed into the course. Our courses typically run 50-ish seconds w/ an average of 15s overlap. By overlap, I mean the amount of time you can have two cars on course at the same time. Before one finishes, we can send another out. I dunno if your currnet timing systems can handle this but it is a nice feature to invest in.

-c.

[Taylor]

Hrm.... so I'm *NOT* the first one to think of some of these things. :P

[haniforama]

SCCA has been doing advanced registration for a while now...

see Link (www.myautoevents.com)

[finboy]

online registration would be fantastic... but there are quite a few who don't know if they're running until the alarm goes off and they look at the weather outside

online would apply more to the "regulars", newbies wouldn't bother to use it


one thing that would be great.. (but would never happen) any regular "known" competitor should be able to reserve their competition number.. if they're known to run at both club events, and regional events

eg.
Mike B = 3
Derek B = 61
Timo = 85
Eric = 86
Barry S = 96

wouldn't that be swell???

in otherwords, a regional/club sign up list

dt

[AlienDNA]

Originally posted by finboy

Eric = 86


Que?

[finboy]

Originally posted by AlienDNA
Que?

drives a yellow car

[AlienDNA]

Ah, that Z06 guy. Right, forgot about that, 'cause he didn't seem to run any regional events other than the Vette event this year.

[finboy]

no.. thats blair

eric drives an 86 vette

[haniforama]

a.k.a. the thermo-nuclear banana

[gatherer]

Originally posted by Cliffy
At the VCMC Motorpsort Club (www.vcmc.ca) we use Karelo (www.karelo.com) as our online payment processing system. We pay a fee and they setup the accounts. It's very simple. We have online registration for all of our events and functions including the portion of regional championship events that we host. Once a person is registered, all he has to do is show up for tech, course maps and waiver signing. On the night before the event all the online registration info is dumped int oour T&S system (AutoX TS) and we are good to go for the event. We also do computerized registration at the event site and have completely eliminated time cards.

Once a person has signed up for one of our events, he gets a barcode. Every other time he comes back, all we do is scan his barcode and he's registered. You won't believe how fast our registration lines move now. This alone has allowed us more time for actual competition. We can start our event as much as an hour earlier and be done in time for extra fun runs in some cases.

The other function of the barcode is for T&S. We no longer collect time cards in grid and no one really has to stay in gridded order. Once a competitor pulls up to the staging line, we scan the barcode and all his info comes up one screen. We simply enter the time and penalties after his run. We can pre-scan up to 8 competitors I think. The next phase of automation is to have the timer directly linked to the T&S database so that data entry is minimized to only entering the cone penalties.

This system was used @ CNAC in Red Deer this past year and I beleive it ws featured in an article of North American Pylon ealrier this year. If you wish to know more, please contect me and I'll put you in touch w/ the right people.

The other time saver is the amount of 'overlap' designed into the course. Our courses typically run 50-ish seconds w/ an average of 15s overlap. By overlap, I mean the amount of time you can have two cars on course at the same time. Before one finishes, we can send another out. I dunno if your currnet timing systems can handle this but it is a nice feature to invest in.

-c.

and the bar code system was sweet at CNAC.... definiately liked the equipment the vancouver guys hauled out to red deer. and the online payment was great too since I knew that I was in before I left ontario. (although I did have difficultly with that particular website...after getting it figured out all was good)

[Taylor]

FinBoy: Actually, for the past two years, Eric HAS been the one in the Yellow Z06. :)

Though rumour has it the car is all put back together again!

[finboy]

i know..
you know..
he knows
most of us know...

eric r (or other newbies wouldn't)

the point being..

Eric J = 86

regardless of who's car.. as long as the regular players are still involved, why not have those numbers reserved for them, year after year..


just a 2 cent thought

[gatherer]

why not set up a central place to buy a number for a year and have it be your number at all events put on by the supporting clubs... the money is then split equalling amongest the supporting clubs.

[finboy]

if 100% of the clubs who host a regional event agree on this, it can be done.

The clubs would have to agree, and all the numbers "purchased"
would then be a true regional number

maybe the cars will look a bit nicer.. if someone knows that is THEIR number

it might work..

if anyone has an EASY way to get all the clubs on board it would be fantastic

imagine.. go to a hada event with a set of numbers..

then the following week run to peterborough and run one of their club events, using the same number,

then running a regional event with the same number


wow.. maybe it sounds stupid.. then again...

it might be a really easy thing to do???

[gatherer]

Originally posted by finboy
if 100% of the clubs who host a regional event agree on this, it can be done.

The clubs would have to agree, and all the numbers "purchased"
would then be a true regional number

maybe the cars will look a bit nicer.. if someone knows that is THEIR number

it might work..

if anyone has an EASY way to get all the clubs on board it would be fantastic

imagine.. go to a hada event with a set of numbers..

then the following week run to peterborough and run one of their club events, using the same number,

then running a regional event with the same number


wow.. maybe it sounds stupid.. then again...

it might be a really easy thing to do???

well you wouldn't need all the regional hosts to be involved... for example...

if say TAC HADA MCO and WOSCA and the regional series (I guess Wes in this case as the director) decide to join the regional numbering program (how's that for a name) then at regional events and all TAC, HADA, MCO and WOSCA events you'd have a reserved number. the cost of the yearly number would most likely go up. but each club takes a piece of the pie.....

it's just an idea....

[ShaneG]

Hell, there would not "HAVE" to be a cost, just an agreement from all involved to honor certain numbers (Not that I disagree with paying a couple of bucks to do so)

And 300 series or somthing similar for non number registered entrants

[Taylor]

Oh I have all sorts of ideas about this stuff, but no one to pay for it.

Now if I were independantly wealthy it wouldn't be an issue but sadly no matter how much I beg for it, it hasn't happened yet. :P

Of course there are ways to pay for it, but then you need support and a lot of it. While Wired seems to have a good chunk from some Clubs and parts of the community, there's flat out ignorance (or lack of effort) from others.

[haniforama]

Pick a number like 632 and you're likely to be OK at most events :)

[gatherer]

Originally posted by haniforama
Pick a number like 632 and you're likely to be OK at most events :)

not really since 100+ competitors can't all pick that number :p

anyways the cost part was to provide incentive for the clubs to join in a share of the profits

[haniforama]

Hehe - i know :D

Remember to consider factors like non-steel cars, differing colours, differing amounts of real estate on different cars, some with numbers incorporated into the paint scheme, etc.

So long as we're only talking number reservation (simialar to SOLO1), and not forcing people to buy a set from a central supplier, then i think we are ok.

Hanif

[haniforama]

My numbers for this year are going to be a bunch of long-thin mirrored trapezoids that can be used to make any possible number - similar to how a 7-segment display works.

Hanif

[Taylor]

Hanif: Great! Then you can spell out "H-Bomb's Kar, Stand Back!"

[finboy]

again... this is just something that could be brought up..

its just that I think its cool when the regular solo guys/gals
have run the same number for years

to have a newbie show up before them at registration and take "their" number.. should be unthinkable.

in terms of a small cost to reserve a number for the season, it could be 2, 5, or 10 bucks

if people are spending a few dollars to get magnets made, why not spend it on ONE number set, that looks pretty too?

I think it would be a cool trend to have every year.

and for the small fee.. i think its a good idea, for the money
to be shared to the participating clubs, it will kinda tie the solo community together

don't cha think??

maybe.. beats me...

[AlienDNA]

But, if you run in regionals, aren't you guaranteed your number for any regional event you run in anyhow?:confused:

Maybe 23 is just a really unpopular number, but I never had another competitor scoop it on me on a regional weekend. Is this really a problem? Do club members get bumped when their club is hosting a regional series? How would you coordinate such a system? I'd think you'd have to give preference to the regional competitors for number assignment, but at least one club allows number selection before the regional numbers are all assigned (which is why I was running 22 in PITL).

PS: Simon, if you're reading this and you're willing to give up 22 for regionals next season there might be a case of beer in it for you....

[Chris P]

Originally posted by haniforama
My numbers for this year are going to be a bunch of long-thin mirrored trapezoids that can be used to make any possible number - similar to how a 7-segment display works.

Hanif

already beat you to that one......
though mine are too small.

[gatherer]

Originally posted by finboy
again... this is just something that could be brought up..

its just that I think its cool when the regular solo guys/gals
have run the same number for years

to have a newbie show up before them at registration and take "their" number.. should be unthinkable.

in terms of a small cost to reserve a number for the season, it could be 2, 5, or 10 bucks

if people are spending a few dollars to get magnets made, why not spend it on ONE number set, that looks pretty too?

I think it would be a cool trend to have every year.

and for the small fee.. i think its a good idea, for the money
to be shared to the participating clubs, it will kinda tie the solo community together

don't cha think??

maybe.. beats me...

I completely agree with this. reservation is what people are paying for and then they can go whereever they want to get them made.

[gatherer]

Originally posted by AlienDNA
But, if you run in regionals, aren't you guaranteed your number for any regional event you run in anyhow?:confused:

Maybe 23 is just a really unpopular number, but I never had another competitor scoop it on me on a regional weekend. Is this really a problem? Do club members get bumped when their club is hosting a regional series? How would you coordinate such a system? I'd think you'd have to give preference to the regional competitors for number assignment, but at least one club allows number selection before the regional numbers are all assigned (which is why I was running 22 in PITL).

PS: Simon, if you're reading this and you're willing to give up 22 for regionals next season there might be a case of beer in it for you....

it's simple ... yes regional registered competitors get a number for that series... but like what happened this year I registered for PITL and got one number, registered for regionals got a different number, showed up to WOSCA events and got a third number....

I HATE trying to remove shoe polish at the end of the day. (thats where this Idea comes from)

anyways if we make a number register part of the regional series and any clubs that wish to participate then if you'd have 1 number (no more then that) for all the series that are participating in the number register. if your at a regional event where there is a club event as well and both are part of the register you have no problem the number is yours. if your at a regional event where there is also a club event that is not part of the register you again have no issue because your regional number takes priority since you've paid to have it and the event is a regional event. if you go to an event that is run by a club not part of the register and is not a regional event then yes they very well could assign a different number too you.

I how this clears up the idea.

[Martini Focus]

I agree with Jason.:D

[ShaneG]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Regional numbers are reserved. ..When I registered this spring (03) there was a list of which many numbers were blacked out,

So the issue is getting the clubs to honor the reserved regional numbers.

I think more people would spend a couple of $ for a fancy number or number plate if it were transferable to the local or non regional events...and maybe Taylor (Wired Motorsports) or Perry (Mad Macs) might realise a return for their sponsorship dollars, and we will get a fringe benifit of having a more "professional" (not sure if that is the right word) appearance that could be good for the growth of the sport

[tanney]

Regional numbers are reserved. The new rule book will specify a time frame for which they are reserved.

WOSCA typically tries to reserve regional competitor's numbers for people, but to the best of my knowledge, they are the only club.

I run in three series and it has taken me three years to get my numbers the same in all three.

[finboy]

what do you think then Wes??

is this something that would be "easily" done

basically it depends on the clubs if they want to get involved,
and if the regional drivers want to reserve a number.

if its only a handful of people who would like to reserve their number "regionally, and at club levels" then this is useless

but i'd imagine, the "regulars" who run all over would like to have
their number reserved.. just for the coolness if anything

but you'd agree, it would be pretty cool, going to any event in our area.. show up and have your number already reserved


this all might sound usless, but who knows???

[tanney]

It's up to the clubs that host events....

Some of those clubs have had people running their series but not the regionals for many years and may noit want to give up their club numbers so easily.

I personally think it is a good idea, but it just so happens that I run the regionals and a lot of club events....

[Yvan]

Originally posted by eddie 82
So you're running a club-level event, and are expecting registration to be in the 40-60 driver range (pretty common for our area).

Out of the blue, you are faced with well over 100 competitors waiting in line to register.

What do you do?

Split the group into class families and start running by family and tell the rest to come back in a few hours or help out. It's good enough for the big SCCA clubs.

[Yvan]

Originally posted by tanney
I agree and disagree with this statement. Your right that the series should be for the series competitors, but how do you get more and new series competitors without letting potential competitors get their feet wet. I really think this is what club events are for. By the time I started regionals I had 3 or 4 PITL events under my belt and didn't need the newbie speak, lessons on what marshalling is etc, etc. I think part of taking CASC-OR to the next level is expecting a bit more of competitors. There are SO MANY clubs for people to get their feet wet.. PITL, BMW, HADA, WOSCA, OMSC, Porsche.. probably a half dozen more.

[tanney]

I think part of taking CASC-OR to the next level is expecting a bit more of competitors. Like for competitors to actualy read the rule book, so they know that they need to be a member of an affiliated club in order to score for the series. (Just one small issue I could go on about)

I would indeed expect the regional competitors to be a little more savy, but it has been proven that some are not.

[Daveg]

I have felt the pain of not being able to run, and it is not fun.

Solo2 is the most basic level of motorsport and is supposed to welcome all newcomers.

At TLMC we quickly corrected our cap on entries so that everyone is welcome. If the series ever gets so large that we cannot manage, then we'll deal with it, until then, welcome, and enjoy!

Dave

[Whisper]

We had a demo event here in Ottawa, which had quite a number of new people showing up at the next event. Many just came to watch, but we had about a dozen new people entering for the last event of the series. Everyone still had a minimum of 4 runs, with most having 5.

I would find out what caused the influx of people at registration. Did they come as a group, or did they just find out about the event?

Turning anyone away for something other then being late should not happen. Hopefully many will return. :D They didn't come for the rest of the series, because they didn't know it existed. I was one of these.

I believe you can make it easier by doing something like a series registration. You should also have some type of event registration for people. It would be easier to predict people coming from other clubs, and new people who know where the club site is.

Anyone planning to bring a group of people to a club event should drop an email to the club's solo II rep as a courtesy.

[tanney]

Anyone planning to bring a group of people to a club event should drop an email to the club's solo II rep as a courtesy. I personally used to like showing up for club events unannounced. I did it in Ottawa a couple of years ago and no one knew who I was (at least when I arrived they didn't :)). That was a great time (except for the rain)! Good event, good people!

I did it again at a TLMC event in 2002 hoping that no one would know who I was, but nope, I had six people say Hi Wes before I even got parked.

Geeze I can't go to a Solo 2 event anywhere in Ontario without people knowing who I am anymore:( :)

[Marsh]

Originally posted by tanney
I personally used to like showing up for club events unannounced. I did it in Ottawa a couple of years ago and no one knew who I was (at least when I arrived they didn't :)). That was a great time (except for the rain)! Good event, good people!

I did it again at a TLMC event in 2002 hoping that no one would know who I was, but nope, I had six people say Hi Wes before I even got parked.

Geeze I can't go to a Solo 2 event anywhere in Ontario without people knowing who I am anymore:( :)

I've never thought of that, I should leave the magnets at home, next time I go to an out of town club event. But I think my face is getting too well known as well.

I assume that was the same TLMC event I went too? That was a funny day. ;)

[tanney]

I assume that was the same TLMC event I went too? That was a funny day.

That was the one...... The funniest things about that day (I did say funny) were, first driving up the 400 at 130kph, looking in my rearview mirror to see somebody just flying up behind me on the almost abandoned highway. A riced out Civic, he's got the seat reclined so he is straining his neck to see over the dash. As he goes by me, he does so with such speed that the wind cushion makes my car side step about a foot, he must have been doing 180-200kph then I get to the event and there he is..... sitting there with a bunch of other riced out cars bragging about the night before.

Then the funnier part was when him and the bunch of buddies are standing there talking about how they blew this guy away and that guy away and Marshall walks up and says, "Do you realize that you all got blown away by a stock CRX!" They all shut up a dispersed.....

That was another fun day. Almost everyday autocrossing is a fun day!

[Chris P]

Wes and Marsh, why do you guys think i don't go to many AutoX's anymore. Just wait, one day when the peeps have forgotten i'll reemerge with avengence. It will be sweet :p

I remember when i first started runing in 2000. Showed up at a PITTL event. Wes and myself had never met before and i'm pretty sure he beleived he was the shoe in for that Bstock championship. I seem to remember him being quite surprised to see a black 1st gen CRX ahead of him in the results that day......and championship. Yep, fun times. 3:p

[tanney]

Actually Chris, we first met at, I do believe, the last PITTL event of 1999. You and your dad showed up and Mike Birch introduced me to your dad and then you.

I was a little surprised that a snot faced little kid like you:D was so fast, though.....

Now that I stop and think about it, I don't think you were fast, it was all the car. Yeah, that's it, the car!

[tanney]

Chris, one more thing..... if I could just beat you at ETCC, all would be good in the world.:)

[Chris P]

You know what, i think your right. But in anycase, that PITTL event was my first ever compeditive AutoX event. booya


re: ETCC:
Get rid of that Audi POS and drive a BMW, maybe you'll have a chance. :D

[Chris P]

PS, qual tonight for Laguna on F1RST. Do it before midnight. While you will be taking up the rear i'll be setting the pole position.....okay maybe not but should be able to set a time in top 5(only because i haven't driven the game very much lately.)

[rpr]

Originally posted by tanney
I was a little surprised that a snot faced little kid like you:D was so fast, though.....


Luckily some things never change... :P

[Gerry]

Interesting topic!
One of the reasons I was attracted to Solo 1 was the fact that for several Solo 2 events, I would drive up to 90 minutes to get to the event, change tires, have 4 or, maybe, 5 timed runs of less than 1 minute, change tires, and drive home. An entire day for less than 5 minutes of timed competition.
A Solo 1 event will give a minimum of 20 laps on a real race track. And yes, it is more expensive.
So my vote would be for more runs and/or longer tracks in Solo 2, and preference for series-registered competitors.
In a way, this is a good problem to have, because the sport is getting more interest.