Honda/Michelin Series Returns!

[rmicroys]

Check it out... great for Canadian Racing. It will be interesting to see what the details are going to be.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/roadracing/9313/

[soloZ]

Thats awesome I think it would be better if they used the hatchbacks but this will do.

[roooo]

Nice to see Honda putting their name to something other than drag racing :)
I hope the competitors get a deep discount on the Michelin race tires as those Pilot Sport comp's aren't exactly cheap.

[Nissan Racer]

I call dibs on the used ones!!! :D

[roooo]

Can't find any mention of this on Honda's website, even though the SpeedTV article says it has been "announced". Anyone found an actual press release or official website for the series?

[de Jager]

It was mentioned in this Saturday's Wheels Section of the Toronto Star.

[DECH_92]

Any of you HADA Weasels stepping up to the challenge? Dave
I think there is a B group for older Honda’s.

[Dave]

a B Group for older Hondas, eh? That sounds pretty interesting! I'd like to hear more, of course.

I'd love to build a new car for this series but so much of it would depend on the level of dealership support available. I think it's going to be largely about dealerships getting involved as way of getting some good racing P.R. and getting to hang out in the paddocks at the F1 weekend in Montreal.

[23Racer]

Does anyone have any further news? It is getting a little late for any kind of series being put together for this year. I am hearing all kinds of rumours out of different sources but little hard info. If the series news doesn't come out until February (Toronto Auto Show perhaps?) it only leaves 2 - 3 months until the season starts. Not much time to put together a car, sponsorship and do any testing.

I was wondering if this is a test to determine interest for a full blown effort for 2005. Just wondering.

[Chris P]

One PR and everyone goes insane. Anyone want to call their bluff? Who's going to drive in this series? No information has been givin to the racers. To build up a car i need to know whats going on by the very latest November.

I have heard a rumor that 40 cars are being prepared for the series somewhere in the US? Truth? Who are the drivers? Maybe a celebrity series of sort, however the Canadian market doesn't really seem like the appropiate place for this.


Krispy, somebody who wants more information besides pictures of the cars.

[Chris P]

and by pictures i mean artist renditions..........


"the truth is out there" :D

[Nissan Racer]

I do know that at least one car was prepped (prototype?) here in Canada

[max attack]

I'm with Dave info on older cars in B group is way more interesting to me than building a new car for big money to drive around dead stock=boring(I know the other cars are just as stock so it won't always be boring).

[Dave]

I've been told by what I consider a reliable source that the series is being sanctioned by ASN Canada as a national level series, rather than by CASC as a regional level series. I've also been told that it's really a "dealership series", presumably meaning that it's targeting dealerships as the main players who will presumably benefit from the "race on sunday, sell on monday" concept. But this is all pretty speculative stuff and I agree with Krispy that this thing is seeming like vaporwear given the total lack of detailed info available so far.

[Nabs]

The funny thing is it mentions in the Speed link that Honda Canada announced this but i can't find any news release from Honda at all!:confused:

[slucas]

Bill Loben of BARC-OC brought up a good point on their website regarding J.V. being used in the Honda press release. That Jack never raced a stock Honda .
Perhaps they're confusing THE J.V. with uncle J.V. and considering the goings on at BAR-Honda for the last year or so the PR flak that wrote the release may find himself greasing fifth wheels at the local truck stop as his next job.

[karlt]

"I've also been told that it's really a "dealership series", presumably meaning that it's targeting dealerships as the main players who will presumably benefit from the "race on sunday, sell on monday" concept."

This is the way the successful Rothmans Porsche Cup series was run in the '80's. All cars were "sponsored" by a dealer; most dealers had two to four cars they were involved with.

While I think another series -- especially a national one with races in locations beyond Mosport and Shannonville -- is great, it strikes me that we already have a series like this with two solid seasons under its belt: the Sentras.

A couple of questions, then:
1. If Honda Michelin returns, aren't we splitting drivers in to two series, weakening both?

2. What happens to the Sentra series? Against full Honda backing, it kind of leaves the AFSSC in an unpleasant predicament.

3. Do we really need two series of cars buzzing around turning 1:45's? Why not just combine the two and get 40 car fields :-))

Just my $0.02.

Karl T

[craig]

Well, we all know nothing concrete about the new series, it seems. :rolleyes:

The press release did say, 'The new regional "spec" racing series will feature stock Honda Civic DX Coupes and will return Honda Canada to the grassroots racing of the past.' However, the same release also has some obvious inaccuracies re: JV, as previously noted.

If it is set up like the old Honda-Michelin series, then there will be a huge difference from the Sentra series in terms of costs to racers. Back then, you could not have built a race car for what Honda was selling them for, and everything was subsidized, right down to entry fees!

(although a body shop sponsorship would have been a very good thing, and probably will be again :D )

The Rothman's cars were (relatively) cheap too, as I remember.

Honda-Michelin, Players-GM, Rothmans-Porsche - we didn't know how good we had it back then ...

[observer]

I've found some contact information for the series, but so far the person I was directed to has not returned my call. As soon as I have any useful information, I will forward.

-r.

[super seven]

One of my contacts talked to John Sherk {Honda egineering} and he is actually taking in part to setting things up . looks like they are going to be very selective on whos getting cars and driving? I dont think the seeies is going as genous as before. Rumour has it Tony Mgrath has sent in a application . Sorry Tony!
Typical of Honda everything is hush hush till the last second.
Please dont contact John Sherk or that i mentioned any of this. Stayed tuned

[jodz]

Originally posted by karlt


While I think another series -- especially a national one with races in locations beyond Mosport and Shannonville -- is great, it strikes me that we already have a series like this with two solid seasons under its belt: the Sentras.

A couple of questions, then:
1. If Honda Michelin returns, aren't we splitting drivers in to two series, weakening both?

2. What happens to the Sentra series? Against full Honda backing, it kind of leaves the AFSSC in an unpleasant predicament.

3. Do we really need two series of cars buzzing around turning 1:45's? Why not just combine the two and get 40 car fields :-))

Just my $0.02.

Karl T

My first thought when I heard about Honda/Michelin coming back was to get Nissan/Toyo to jump on board as title sponsors for us, combine the fields, and have a 2 make series. That would make for some interesting competition and HUGE fields. The 2 makes would have to be equalized, as I think the Civics have about 150hp and we only have about 30. It could be done quite easily though with weights and performance enhancements. In reality though, I don't think Honda would go for something like that.

I figure this could go one of two ways for the AFSSC. It could either spurn Nissan to give us a bit more backing, or it could basically sink us (or at least hinder our advancement)

My two cents....

Jody Trudeau
AFSSC #221
TGT #50

[Nissan Racer]

I believe they are using the base Civic
http://www.honda.ca/HondaEng/Models/CivicSedan/2004/features.asp
http://www.honda.ca/HondaEng/Models/CivicCoupe/2004/features.asp
and both the base Coupe and sedan have 115hp, even the SI only has 127...about the same as the Sentra XE.

[malcolm]

Just going by what has happened in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan didn't "rise up" to the challenge. In the past, there have been big one make series for a lot of manufacturers, including Honda, Toyota (I think.... do they have a series with the same cars as in the celebrity events?), GM, and others, but I haven't ever heard of anything to do with Nissan. Also, Nissan has never really done much in racing in North America, since the GTP days, and they went running away when Toyota and Honda joined the party in IRL. I would like to see the two series exist alongside one-another, but I just don't think Nissan will want to. :(

One thing *both* series should do is to axe the R-compound tires. Neither the Civic nor the Sentra has enough power to make the cars exciting on R-compounds.... They need shaved street tires, like they did in the old Honda/Michelin series, and in the Players-GM series. Those cars slid all over, and passing was actually possible without bumping (mind you, that sure didn't stop them from using that technique!).

my two cents to add to Karl's... ;)

[Nabs]

Did they even have R-compounds back then?! ;)

[malcolm]

I don't know... The original Honda/Michelin series is older than I am, and I was only two when the Player's GM Series started in '86. I knew what a tire was then, but I guess I never thought to check the compounds... ;) haha

[Nissan Racer]

Damn kids!

[soloZ]

I miss all the other one make series we use to have, they were great races to watch

[roooo]

Maybe someone should approach Toyota about a one-make series with the Echo .. they do it in Japan and Europe.

[Nissan Racer]

Or get Nissan to import the Renault Clio...

[malcolm]

I don't think they have a one-make series for the echo... I am pretty sure it's for the "Vitz", which is different I believe. Haha, I could just see a pack of Echoes putting down through corner two... ;)

[rmicroys]

VW has the Lupo series in Europe. Cool little cars.

[malcolm]

I think the UK has a one-make series for every vehicle ever made... MG's, Super-7's, "Prosports" (which look like Ultimas to me...), Radicals, and the list goes on forever...

[roooo]

Vitz (JP) == Yaris (EU) == Echo Hatch (CA)

Hope that helps ;)

[malcolm]

Ahh, I stand corrected. :) I have never seen an Echo hatch... are they for sale in North America?

[roooo]

Toyota Canada - Echo Hatchback (http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/17/wo/Home.Vehicles.Go.EchoHatchback-EDWJjjm8kaYn33nMxvR7gM/0.15?%2e%2e%2fechohatchback%2fintro%2ehtml)

Canada-only. Not USA for some reason. But the, the USA gets the Psion series and the MR2 and we don't.

[malcolm]

thanks :D

yeah, we get the raw deal there. oh well... ;)

[de Jager]

Ya, I can see it now...a spec Echo series as a support race at Mosport during a Pro weekend.

Thousands of race fans simply shaking their heads :confused:

Any chance that they could even crack 2min/lap?

[malcolm]

I dunno... those spec-Vitz racers look pretty quick. Tuned suspension, racing wheels and good tires...http://www.clubangle.com/vitz/vitzrace/vitz43.JPG

[Dave]

The Echo hatch has a very similar power-to-weight ratio as the 4th gen Civic Si (though a less sophisticated rear suspension) so I would imagine the Echo should be at least as fast as the old Honda Michelin cars. What times did they turn at Mosport? 1:42's?

[Nabs]

Ha! I'd be surprised if they even cracked the 1:50 barrier!

[Dave]

maybe with you behind the wheel, Nabs! ;) Baby Krispy would be good for 1:39's all day long...

edit: just did a bit of bumping around on the internet and couldn't really find any lap times for the old Honda Michelin cars. Surely someone here will remember what times they did at Mosport. Maybe 1:50 is about right. Dunno. You'd know better than me, Nabs...since you're so OLD! Oh wait, I think I'm older than you...that won't work. I give up....

[malcolm]

Ok, the Vitz can do a 1:54 at Fuji speedway in Japan. A GTS Viper (team Chamberlain) did a 1:27 in qualifying there. Now if the Viper can do a 1:18 at Mosport, then cross multiply and divide....
.
.
.
.
114/87 = x/78

x=102.2 seconds...

= 1:42 or so at Mosport. Not too shabby. That should be pretty accurate, considering all the fast corners at Fuji Speedway, and the long uphill front straight. Using that same method, I once figured that an F1 car would have a decent chance at breaking the one-minute barrier at Mosport. That is awesome and scary at the same time. That means I want to try. ;)

[RedRabbit Racer]

checking appendix c mosport international raceway lap records, I note race record for honda michelin series is mark craig may 1992 1:47.121 and qualifying a bit slower in sep 92 at 1:47.567 steven laporte.
yes I am that old

[Dave]

interesting stuff, guys. I would imagine that the racing Vitz' in Japan is allowed a fair bit more modification (perhaps racing slicks?) compared to the old Honda Michelin cars, which may account for the speed differential Malcolm's math suggests.

[Zimm]

I ran in the Honda/Michelin series in 86/87 and 90/91 and, no, it wasn't THAT long ago. (Kids, yeesh) :mad: Results from the 1991 Victoria Day weekend show that Robert Boyer turned the fastest lap at 1:48.732. Interesting to note that only 8 of the 20 cars broke 1:50 that weekend. Not quite as fast as y'all think. Certainly puts a 1:37 lap by a TGTC Integra into perspective!

BTW, most of us were supported by Honda dealers, but that support was generally free paint and bodywork (needed that!) and parts at cost. That was a good deal since a brand new car only cost 10K, but I honestly can't see too many drivers dropping 30K for one of the new cars.

[Doug P]

Is there a site where all the drivers and results are posted?

[Zimm]

This is the only one that I'm aware of. It's a good site, but you'll have to use your language skills as it's French only.

http://www.autocourse.ca/

[RacerRobb]

Well since I was around then I can add some info.

When the series first started the cars were on BFG tires with the series named appropriately. The tires were a BFG gt100 or some such (can't remember the exact model) and were very small both in diameter and width. I remember being able to get a lot of tires/rims into the back of the first car I was associated with - a 1978 base civic, red that was bought originally by Roger Fountian and sold 2 years later to John Lyons.

John moved up to a 1982 model car in a couple of years and stared running on TRX tires and rims - does anybody know what cars had TRX tires as standard fitmet? I believe there were 3 vehicles that suffered that fate. Not really a bad tire just a little funky as they were true metric and had a special rim (365mm)with a different bead design then standard rims. We shaved 'em and the hot cheat back then was to get a set of European spec winter TRX's and buff off the side wall markings for a little more grip.

Of course the name of the series changed to the Honda/Michelin series and stayed that way until the demise of the series.

The next change was to the XGT Michelin - a 195/50-15 on a spec Cheviot wheel named "Bullets" they look a lot like the wheels that were original fiment on the Shelby Charger and were frequently mistaken for same.

The last change was to a different spec rim as the Cheviot's would not clear the brake calipers on the later race Civics so a 5 spoke design was spec'd and many of these wheels are still being used in Solo and Road Race.

It will be interesting to see exactly what mods are dictated on the cars and whether a "truck kit" is allowed. The Honda/Michelin cars (part 1) were very close to stock unlike the Sentra XE's being used today. If changes are kept to very few then the Sentra's should be capable of faster lap times. Fasted lap in a race (albeit not a Sentra Series race) is a 1:44.986 on on 205/50-15 Toyo RA1's.

Prior to the last couple of years of Honda/Michelin competition times were in the 2:00:00 minute range although, of course, this was on the original configuration of Mosport (and street tires). Times would be faster with the recent changes to Mosport. Times dropped as cars improved and finally reached the 1:50:00 range.

Some other interesting statistics from a 24 hour race that a team of Honda/Michelin driver's undertook in 1986:

639 laps of Mosport - 1571 miles - 2514 kms.
Overall 46/48 at start 25/48 at finish
Class 16/17 at start 7/17 at finish
Pit Stops 10 for 23:02 minutes
Fastest day lap 2:00:63 by John Sherk
Fastest night lap 2:00:10 something about driving with his eyes closed. Brian Jeffery

Team name "We won't wreck Garth's car" or W(cubed)GC for short.

BTW - I was the crew chief for that effort and had an absolutely memorable time.

Robb Smith
Secretary CASC-OR

[Dave]

thanks for all the info, Robb! It's neat to hear about how that series evolved over the years. And like you say, it should be interesting to see just how modified the new Honda Michelin cars will be.

1:50's on XGT's is darn good IMO. Those tires are pretty darn horrid in my experience.

[Nissan Racer]

Originally posted by RacerRobb
Well since I was around then I can add some info.


It will be interesting to see exactly what mods are dictated on the cars and whether a "truck kit" is allowed.
Robb Smith
Secretary CASC-OR
I think you mean "trunk kit"
Leaf springs and rancho's on a Civic would be funny :D

[DECH_92]

Honda / Michelin
Rothmans /Porcha
Players /Camaro, where great series to watch.
I went to all of them.
The first year saw a lot of crashes, the Honda’s would roll over 360 and keep on going and the Camaro`s
would loose the back hatch window every time when hit by another car.
Second year the window didn`t pop out any more. Guess the Company’s learned some stuff from those series.
Every year the drivers inproved and racing was closer and better with less crashes.

Oh the Mustang came with the metric TRX tire and rim in mid Eighties as well.

[Nabs]

Originally posted by Dave
thanks for all the info, Robb! It's neat to hear about how that series evolved over the years. And like you say, it should be interesting to see just how modified the new Honda Michelin cars will be.

1:50's on XGT's is darn good IMO. Those tires are pretty darn horrid in my experience.


So, i was right afterall. Take that mister! :p

Robb, great info there. I really enjoy hearing about the older races and seeing how they developed over time.

So Robb, will you be racing a Sentra this year?

[Dave]

So, i was right afterall. Take that mister!

Yeah, you were right if you consider being off by 2 seconds accurate. Some of the later Honda/Michelin cars did run in the 48's, as posted earlier in this thread. YOU take that, Mr.! ;)

But you were definitely closer than my 42's comment earlier on in the thread. Pete Mills made me say it! :p

[CCCargirl]

The old Honda series produced many memorable moments. A particularly noteworthy 'moment' was when one Honda (Des Hockley?) managed to drive up the back bumper AND OVER the roof of another Honda (was it in FiveB?) and carry on - never missing a beat. Not exactly your classic pass. But then, no one would lift. If they did - if they hiccuped or sneezed - they were left far behind.

[RacerRobb]

Yep; Des and his son Dean had quite a memorable few years in Honda/Michelin competition.

The "trick" escape sequence mentioned in the prior submission ocurred as Des was being squeezed by a couple 'o not so friendly fellow Honda/Michelin brothern. He was actually "attacked" by a squeeze play attemped on the start of the back straight at Mosport.

A photo actually exists of the event (might be by GridWork, but not sure). The car rid up the front wheels of the two offending Civics and kind of launched into the air enoough that when the flyin' Honda returned to the pavement it was a Dukes of Hazzard moment and managed to inject about 2 1/2 degrees of negativve camber into that there Civic front end.

The car was sucessfully raced by Dean Hockley the following year. Man could that messaged Civic ever corner. Dean sometimes out qualifed Des and Peter with the alignment by crash method of front end tweking.

In that next year that Dean started racing Des had a brand new car and managed to roll it onto the roof in the first practice session of the year of when I became his crew chief. The in-car camera showed the whole thing - well up until the car landed on the roof. The old fashioned taping device (seperate camera and recorder arrangemen) found itself loose inside the car and bounced around a bit iside.

Post accident inspection by the safety staff had us in deep poo as we had not had the installation blessed.

[28Racer]

Hey Robb!

Remember the original W3GC refueling "rig" that left the bench like a Goddard rocket at Robbins Automotive while we were getting ready for the 24? That was such a memorable time for all of us - doesn't seem like it was really almost 18 years ago! (Tell me, how old are we supposed to be?)

As for Honda/Michelin 2004, things are coming together well for something that launched so late. Ralph Luciw has returned as Series Director and can be contacted at the Honda National office (416) 284-8110.

To clarify it being a "regionally based" series means events will be in Quebec and Ontario. Some will be on regional club weekends, but the majority will be support races with major international series. The schedule will be announced shortly, as soon as some ongoing negotiations have been concluded.

I am not sure where the "dealer-based" information came from. The series cars and required equipment will have to be purchased and delivered through a Honda dealer of the competitor's choice (same as in the original series). Dealers are being encouraged to support the series and its competitors and some dealers want to enter and sponsor cars in the series. The ultimate purpose of this exercise for Honda is to promote the Honda Civic and hopefully sell more cars, so it is important that the dealers are supportive and make use of the opportunities the series provides.

The grassroots concept of the series is to keep it accessible to new drivers and provide a format where they will actually have to develop driving skills and learn how to race each other, not just the track. An ASN Canada FIA National grade race license (or equivalent from SCCA, etc.,) will be required to compete in the series, so some amount of experience will be necessary. A number of former series drivers have expressed interest in returning, so there should be plenty of experience around for new drivers to draw from.

While nothing is being given away, costs are being kept as low as possible and required and permitted modifications to a minimum so the entry level racer can compete on the same level as the wealthy sportsman. Hopefully we will have as full a field as possible all season.

BTW: The Honda press release was corrected to indicate it was actually JV Sr who competed successfully in the original series back in the late '70s.

JS

[28Racer]

If I remember correctly, that happened right beside me after Des and some of the Quebec contingent got cranky about who owned the line through 5B out to 5C. Wasn't Peter's car the launching ramp? I clearly remember seeing Des hangin' on to the wheel with his left hand, his right hand in mid-air like a pro bull rider (probably trying to get to the gearshift!) and the front tires of his car visible level with my side window.

JS

[85258]

Has pricing info been released yet?

Just curious, as I plan on running in the Western Series

Thanks

[28Racer]

Pricing hasn't been officially announced but should be out shortly - some final details yet to be sorted out with equipment pricing and event entry fees. It is expected that a new 2004 car will be able to be put on track with required equipment, series entry fee and performance bond paid, 2 sets of wheels/tires, etc., including taxes for about $25k or less.
It has not been officially decided that there will be a western series in 2005, but it is being considered and is a good possibility. There is definitely much competitor interest being expressed from western Canada. If the series does come to the west, you may be able to save some money and pick up a 2004 car from the eastern series (if any are for sale after the 2004 season).

[23Racer]

John, you seem to have the best information on this series. I appreciate the difficulties in launching the program but I am concerned that with the lateness of the date, less than 3 months to the first race, that most people will not be able to put together a program to run this year.

A few really key questions that the people I am talking to, who are very interested in running in the series, need answers to:

1) Schedule - need to event dates to try to put together a program?

2) Car Prep Level - what outside vendor products can be used on car? Allowable alternate supplier products.

3) 2004 - 2005 Model Year Change - what happens to 2004 Cars if the rumoured 2005 model year Civic revision takes place. Will they get upgrades to as quick as the new cars or are they relegated to a "B" series after 1 year.

4) Wheel and Tire Program - are wheels open and are tires going to be discounted like the previous iteration of the series.

I know that the information will come out during the next few months, but after announcing the series there has been little information for a long time. People need to make plans and the delay may mean that people go in another direction. I want to see the series be successful and thrive. Canada needs another national level series for people to look towards and this Chinese water torture of information is driving most of us nuts :D .

[Cindy]

Since the Honda Series is a national series and not a regional one you should be checking the website for the national sanctioning body for updates. Go to www.asncanada.com and you will find both the most recent announcements and contact info for the Series Director (Ralph Luciw).

[rpr]

Wow. To say that the ASN site is spectacularly bad would be an understatement. I must be missing something obvious because I can't find ANY information on that site.

[rmicroys]

This is all that is there:

Annoucenment (http://www.asncanada.com/2004%20National%20Series/Honda%20Release%20Feb%2014.htm)
Car Prep Details (http://www.asncanada.com/2004%20National%20Series/Honda%20Basic%20Specs%20Feb%2014.htm)

[23Racer]

Thanks Rob. Thats the most information that I have seen about the cars and series. By the way the ASN site is truly terrible. The Touring GT Site is actually much better and it was done for free.

Just wondering, based on the spec of the cars I am estimating mid to high 1:48's as a good lap time. What does everyone else think?

[karlt]

Check here for the announcement (which is nothing more than we've already heard):

http://www.asncanada.com/2004%20National%20Series/Honda%20Release%20Feb%2014.htm

_karl t_

[28Racer]

In reply to your questions:

1) Schedule - need to event dates to try to put together a program?

Mosport Victoria Day
Montreal F1
CASC MCO Shannonville (double race)
Mosport CASCAR
GP Trois Rivieres
Mosport ALMS

Three others are under negotiation and "TBA".


2) Car Prep Level - what outside vendor products can be used on car? Allowable alternate supplier products.

Very simply, everything stock, as manufactured.
Spec tires, wheels, exhaust, brake lines and clutch lines will be required.
Brake friction material may be spec (TBD).
Brake/engine/trans fluids are free.
Fuel is to be commercially available roadside pump gasoline up to 94 octane (fuel testing will be part of tech) unless otherwise arranged by the series.

3) 2004 - 2005 Model Year Change - what happens to 2004 Cars if the rumoured 2005 model year Civic revision takes place. Will they get upgrades to as quick as the new cars or are they relegated to a "B" series after 1 year.

As has been done in the past, when full model change occurs, previous model cars will run with the new cars for at least one season as a separate category for separate points and awards. Historically, full model change has resulted in the new cars being faster than the existing model. From a corporate marketing viewpoint, it would not be desirable to keep the old cars competitive with the new ones.

4) Wheel and Tire Program - are wheels open and are tires going to be discounted like the previous iteration of the series.

Spec Honda Accessory wheels. One style, one size. Wheels specifically allocated for series use may be marked as such (so don't run off and buy anything yet).
Considering the models of spec tires, pricing for series competitors will be very "attractive". As has been done in other series, tire sales will not be used as a "cash cow" to generate income for the series out of the competitors' budgets.

[28Racer]

23Racer:

If you are racing in a spec series, do potential lap times really matter? There are plenty of other classes to race in if you ultimately just want to go fast. If you want competition, then a spec series is the place to race.

A well-driven SCCA SSC '99/'00 Civic Si (SiR in Canada) got around Mosport in just under 1:45 by itself in 2001, so I would expect it would be possible to see a good showroom-stock driver achieve that sort of time in a good draft and a second or two slower alone.

[23Racer]

Thanks for the information John. You are right. Ultimate speed doesn't matter if the competition is sound. It looks like it is all coming together after a lot of busy times. Way to go and I look forward to hearing more.

[92racer]

I work at a honda dealer as a apprentice technician> I have been told buy the owner that honda has been telling the dealers to start drag racing programs. Some time in the summer honda canada hopes to have a show down between the dealers at grand bend. This is what Ive been told.

[28Racer]

The most recent press release is at:

http://www.honda.ca/HondaCorpEng/pressroom/PressReleases/HondaAutomotive/040224-HM-08.htm

[28Racer]

Originally posted by 92racer
I work at a honda dealer as a apprentice technician> I have been told buy the owner that honda has been telling the dealers to start drag racing programs. Some time in the summer honda canada hopes to have a show down between the dealers at grand bend. This is what Ive been told.

The Honda/Michelin series has nothing to do with drag racing, it is strictly road circuit racing.
I suspect what you are referring to is Honda dealer involvement with the P.A.C.E.R. program.

[John Powell]

According to the latest CASC newsletter, the 5th event will be a double-header at the MCO weekend on July 3rd & 4th.

[Nabs]

So, it's March and the series has only 4 scheduled dates and no concrete rules or VTS in place.

Tell me again why i should spend 25k and join this series??

I wonder what the big advantage would be for HMCS over say the TouringGT series?

[malcolm]

closer racing, bigger events, cheaper tires (so I hear... I heard like $100 a tire from Michelin)... Sounds like a great series to me.

[metric1]

yeah but no volkswagens!! and how long will that street rubber last?

[malcolm]

haha... ;)

actually, it's the Pilot r-comp tires, so they'll stick fairly well (I've driven them before, and quite liked them). They also have a good amount of traction, despite a seemingly harder compound, so they might last fairly well. Still, we'll have to wait and see... :)

[karlt]

Warning: Shameless self-promotion ;-)

Hey, if you are going to spend $25k running only four confirmed races in the Honda series, you might as well come pro racing in Grand Am Cup with me in the BMW Z3 Coupe. Why drive around in a car that turns Mosport in 1:45s when you can drive a 1:36 car, race in a pro series that's televised and be a part of "the show" in a proven car for a 3-hour endurance race?

Just my $0.02. But that's why I'm doing Grand Am this year instead of spending the same amount to go slower in regionals.

-------

Shameless self-promotion aside, I've always been a big fan of this kind of series (as many know my passion for Rothmans Cup Porsches), and I'm looking forward to seeing a bunch of our regional racers contest this series. It's good to see the series coming back, obviously a little late in the season for some, but good regardless.

I wish the folks who compete in this the best of luck and look forward to watching some good door-door racing (hmmm, sounds like the Sentra series, doesn't it?).

Cheers.

Karl T
http://www.compass360.com/racing

[malcolm]

well, those are just four *ontario* events... they'll also have a few races in Quebec, including the F1 weekend.

[karlt]

Yeah, running at the F1 race in Montreal will be cool. Honda Michelin drivers will not get very much track time, but that's really "the show", isn't it? ;-)

Still, Malcolm, you'll have time to eat your lunch and have a coffee up the Mosport back straight after being used to under 1:30s!

Interesting rumour about the Echo/Pirelli series, too. Should be a neat season here in Ontario and Quebec. I'm looking forward to see what the result is.

_k_

[miataboi]

Is this OFFICIALLY dead????? or what?

[malcolm]

is what dead??

[miataboi]

Is the series a go?

It's totally quiet.
No news.
Season's RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER!!!!

It's like a black hole!

[miataboi]

Just found this:

http://www.asncanada.com/2004%20National%20Series/Series%20Officials.htm

Gives us 8 weeks to field a car!
More names... no details though!

[MindenSpec]

Can you buy a Z3 coupe racer for $25k? And I was told that racing was EXPENSIVE!:confused: :confused:

[karlt]

Er, no, the Z3 is a whole lot more than that! ;-)

The thing is, the Z3 _should_ depreciate less than a brand new Honda/Michelin Civic, especially if they do indeed bring in a new model for 2005. That's the plan, anyway... But you're right, the Grand Am route does require a much bigger cash outlay.

Karl T

[Manu]

Hello all,

as a newcommer on this board, I just wanted to say 'hi' and share with you my first experience this week-end with the newly acquired Lombardi sponsored Civic DX preped for the Honda-Michelin series of this summer. I was on of the lucky few to have received it last week-end, all sealed-up and ready to be prepped.

The car came as a standard black DX coupe, with full interior.

What we needed to do on Friday was to remove all the interior trim, add the provideed bolt-on cage, and fit the accessories (i.e. steering wheel, shifter knob, etc) long and hearthbreaking procedure as this is actually the first car I buy new from the dealer... And it new remained new for less than an hour before we proceeded to strip it...

On the Track:

This Saturday and Sunday was the first driving school for road racing in the Montreal Region. I had the chance to attend and put to the test this new car.

I did not have the Pilot Cup tires nor the wheels ( they are due for this week) but I put the standard 4 seasons Dunlop 14 inches on steel wheels to the test.

Having driven before the 2001 and 2002 model, I was surprised at how stiffer the schocks are compared to the previous models. Mind you they are a bit beefier than the earlier versions of the pre-1990 era, they still manage to be fun to drive.

What a break-in... poor little car...:)

I'm looking forward to driving with some of you guys as I'll be doing some of the events in May: the Grand-Prix of Ontario and the Spring Trophy.

btw, in what class should I register run in at those events with my car, I'm not at all familiar with the classification system and who should I contact for the registration ?

Thanks in advance and drop in at the tracks to say hello !

[malcolm]

I would suggest GTD in the Ontario Challenge Cup. You might break out into GTC, but GTD would be a better bet.

[de Jager]

I would agree that GTD would be the best place to class your car. Especially since you are still learning the car.