Classification of Mazda Protege for 2004

[roooo]

In the 2003 rulebook, the only SS/SP category for the Protege is in class FSS/SP. Unless there has been an update to the rulebook elsewhere, here's how it stands:

Mazdaspeed falls into DSS/SP under the catch-all rule of "All 6-cyl and mechanically-forced-induction 4-cyl 2WD sedans under 3.0L and not otherwise classified".

MP3 goes into CSS/SP under the catch-all of "All sedans over 1.7L and under 3.0L not otherwise classified".

Ouch.

Will the MP3 and Mazdapseed be specifically classed for SS/SP in 2004? If so .. where?

Thanks in advance :)

[Nissan Racer]

Looks like we might be running against each other after all :D

[roooo]

Only if they stuff the MP3 in with the Mazdapseed .. which seems a little silly.
Or do you mean I should just get a Sentra instead ;)

[Martini Focus]

Originally posted by roooo
[B]Only if they stuff the MP3 in with the Mazdapseed .. which seems a little silly.

Ya considering one is boosted and the other isn't.

[finboy]

oem tuner models always have a problem...

people do their best to class them on paper before seeing them run.

some dominate... others.. just some catchy badging

what can you do??

-show up and run behind the 8 ball (everyone knows that your car
isn't as competitive as others) and just have fun

-don't show up because your classing sucks

-use the rule book to the best MC will allow
and start moding

i don't know man... its all a crap shoot

depends what you want, and what you expect from yourself, your car, and the regional classings

most people buy the car for the street.. how many actually get involved with motorsports... can't be that much.

Rowansan.. touch your toes.. not only are you being hump'd by the catch all rule..

but a newer model from your own manufacture is going to hump you

:eek:

[Marsh]

Originally posted by finboy
Rowansan.. touch your toes.. not only are you being hump'd by the catch all rule..

but a newer model from your own manufacture is going to hump you

:eek:

Humped by the catch all rule? I think that DSS is a very competitive class for that car. Infact if the Mini wasn't there I'd look to it as one of the dominant cars.

[Gord]

Originally posted by Marsh
Humped by the catch all rule? I think that DSS is a very competitive class for that car. Infact if the Mini wasn't there I'd look to it as one of the dominant cars.

The MazdaSpeed version is competitive in DSS/SP even with the Mini (IMO). But I think the humping is refering to the MP3 going to CSS/SP. This *WILL* be a humping!

If it was the other way around, I could see it making more sense.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Catch-all's DON'T WORK!

I don't know why we have to just accept it. Why can't we just fix the problem?! :mad:

-Gord

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Gord
I don't know why we have to just accept it. Why can't we just fix the problem?! :mad:

-Gord

Because we love pissing you off Gord.

Catch alls are there because there are always cars that get missed. Catch alls take the guess work out of it. It's not fun trying to class a car that isn't in the rules when the competitor is getting irate about being competitive. I've had it happen. A catch all takes the argument out of it. Boom you here.

Sure the Protege should be classed. I don't recall seing anyone say it shouldn't.

[roooo]

Anyone know when the 2004 SCCA rules will be published? Since the Canadian classing follows what SCCA says.

I'm more curious than anything. I know my car won't truly be competitive regardless, and I have a ways to go myself. I don't think anyone has ever really prepared a Protege for SP in the States, let alone an MP3. Most people choose to stay in stock class or go to STS instead. That's probably why it remains unclassified after a few years.

[Gord]

Originally posted by Marsh
Because we love pissing you off Gord.

:) Thanks for thinkin' of me!

Originally posted by Marsh

Catch alls are there because there are always cars that get missed. Catch alls take the guess work out of it. It's not fun trying to class a car that isn't in the rules when the competitor is getting irate about being competitive. I've had it happen. A catch all takes the argument out of it. Boom you here.

Sure, they work as a last resort for a small number that get missed. Problem is that this is not how this rule is being used. Instead a large number of cars are being caught by the catch-all's.

Originally posted by Marsh

I don't recall seing anyone say it shouldn't.

No but the general feeling/response to these issues seems to be "yeah, it sucks, too bad, them's the rules!".

-Gord

[Martini Focus]

Originally posted by Gord
"yeah, it sucks, too bad, them's the rules!".



That's great I think that should be printed on the back cover of the 2004 rule book. :D

[Yvan]

No but the general feeling/response to these issues seems to be "yeah, it sucks, too bad, them's the rules!". Maybe by some other drivers, but the Director and the solo2 committee welcome constructive input.

[tanney]

As I said in a e-mail to a club contact.... if I was to reclass all the cars that I have been petitioned to re-class, we would be right back to where we started from.....

I have recieved comments about reclassing more than 30 vehicles, so far. It seems that everyone is missed classed in EVERY system.

Stay bent over.......

[Logan]

Wes, this is a perfect example of a classing error. The MP3 should be reviewd and classed properly. It makes no sense to class this car in the same class as my car, which has more power/torque and a LSD (and faster paint), let alone in the next class up.

[tanney]

The CNAC committee have yet to review and add vehicles. This should be done in the next couple of weeks.

There are a couple of specifics that I am looking into, but I am not going to turn the classification system upside down. Instead I am lobbing the clubs to do something about venues and making sure that courses are flowing.

The irony is the smallest lot in 2003 had the most flowing course design...... If every course was open and flowing (ok, at least flowing) then there probably wouldn't be as many car classification issues. So on that note, lobby you club to seek out a bigger venue or design a flowing course.

[roooo]

I'm not requesting re-classification .. just wondering if the car will be classed for SS/SP at all.

The mis-classification is only a result of the MP3 never being specifically classed in the first place. (0wned by the CSP catch-all rule).

Realistically, the MP3 should move to the same SS/SP class as the normal Protege but I guess we really have to wait for SCCA to make a decision on that which I don't see happening any time soon.

[Gord]

Originally posted by tanney
The CNAC committee have yet to review and add vehicles. This should be done in the next couple of weeks.


After the new rulebook is released, is there a period for which it is open for review (so that any problems can be fixed)? Or do we need to have everything submitted ahead of time?

Originally posted by tanney

There are a couple of specifics that I am looking into, but I am not going to turn the classification system upside down. Instead I am lobbing the clubs to do something about venues and making sure that courses are flowing.


Venue's and course design are important issues, however I think that is completely separate from obvious classification errors that people are finding. Open course or not, a classing error is still a classing error that should (IMO) be fixed if it is known about.

-Gord

[Suzie]

Originally posted by tanney
Stay bent over.......

Heh - perhaps this should be on the back cover of the 2004 rule book :cool:

Suzie

[tanney]

If there are specific classification or other rule concerns (not comments like my car will never beat that car...) e-mail me directly with the concerns and comments to back up those concerns (that doesn't include "it comes in better colours, therefore it must be faster than my car").

Anything posted in these forums are discussion items that I may not read or I may miss them buried in the threads.

My e-mail addresses are as follows; solo2guy@sympatico.ca or solo2dir@casc.on.ca.

I try to frequent these forums, but, usually scan threads or avoid them all together, depending on the thread title.

[tanney]

MP3 goes into CSS/SP under the catch-all of "All sedans over 1.7L and under 3.0L not otherwise classified" Where exactly are you reading this?

[roooo]

The MP3 has only been assigned to GS.

2003 CNAC and SCCA rulebooks do not specify a SS/SP class for the MP3. Therefore it falls in to CSS/SP via the catch-all rule.

Unless I missed something?

I didn't mean to start any drama .. I was just wondering if the cars were going to be assigned to a class this year.

[tanney]

Gord, now is obviously the best time to review and make any changes.

It seems that the most debated misclassed cars are competitive in their respective classes in other parts of the country. Not sure if that's because the prepped right elsewhere or maybe the other cars in the class aren't, where it is the opposite here.

Rowan, I will look into the MP3 as well as the new Mazda model lines and make sure that they get included.

The rule book will say, as it did in previous years, that the Solo 2 Director can review and reclass any car at any time throughout the season if it is indeed misclassed.

I am always open to suggestions.....

[roooo]

Thanks, Wes :)

[Gord]

Great Wes, I'll send you an email with details on what I have found/put forward here locally.

This isn't localized to just the Protege; there are problems with many cars. If people think the mp3 seems misclassed, just look at a VW mk4 Jetta/Golf 2.slow. It goes to C right now as well.

What about the MP5? It's not listed specifically, and there is no "NOC" clause either. Isn't the MP5 the hatch version of the MP3 sedan?

-Gord

[roooo]

The Protege5 is classed with the rest of the Proteges as it is identical to the ES sedan except for the body style.
( btw, MP5 is a sub-machine gun not a car ;) )