Renting a ride?

[WannaBeRacer]

I may look at getting my racing license this year. I was wondering who offer's arrive and drive opprotunities? (I'm willing and able to work on the car during the weekend) I'd like to do at least one "big" race the category doesn't really matter as long as it's not F1200. I'm just trying to see how much it might cost and how many opprotunities are out there in Ontario?

[racecartech]

Gateway Racing

http://www.gatewayracinginc.com/rentals/

wide selection of cars

[WannaBeRacer]

Are there any more? I'm trying to do this on a budget lol if that's possible?

[timewarp9]

In order to determine what can fit your budget, you need to understand what it costs to run a car. The most basic car will consume $300.00 of tire wear, perhaps $150.00 of fuel and $30.00 in fluid for an average race weekend. Add in your entry fee of $350.00, tow vehicle expense and food and you are at about $900.00 give or take.

This does not consider the wear and tear on the rest of the drivetrain, amortization of the vehicle, brake pad and rotor wear or accident damage.

The person renting the car is expecting to get something in return, so add on a reasonable profit margin.

Gateway's cheapest car is the Sentra at $590.00 per day or $1,180.00 per weekend, this is information from their website, you may be able to negotiate a better deal based on multiple rentals or whatever. However, based on the estimates above this is about as cheap as you are going to find and is in my opinion a very fair price for an arrive and drive.

I believe there were a few posts recently offering rental rides, look through previous posts and compare.

So some things to consider when you are reviewing your racing budget vs the price of a rental.

I am sure you have gone through this exercise, but I hope that helps somewhat.

Hope you can make it out this season, it is the best fun you can have and the people are great.

Jon

[racecartech]

A major consideration to keep in mind if you go the rental route.

DAMAGE. no matter how it happens, there is no such thing in racing "it wasn't my fault.

I have spent my time so far in other peoples cars, I have been fortunate.

My deals and resonsibility level was always determined before I strapped in.

If the cost of an unfortunate incident would cause you hardship I would reccomend owning your car. At least if it is yours you can fix it as you can afford.

As far as pricing for a rental sedan, Gateway is a good value.

The Sentra Jon mentioned would be a fun car and there is 5-6 cars in that class every weekend to race with

I hope you can make it out. The CASC racers, the officials, the marshalls and support staff are the best you will find anywhere.

[Rolling stone]

Whats the reason for no F1200?great fun,great people and easy engine to work on and CHEAP!!!:Dtwo or three arrive/drive guys out there,if its your first time racing if you get a licence,its a great way to begin....then move on.

[WannaBeRacer]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm just not a huge fan of the older technology which 1200's use. I'm wondering if any shop's that have more then one car have any rental opprotunities available?

[Bubblecar]

. . . I'm just not a huge fan of the ancient technology which 1200's use.

OUCH !

There's probably a much better (or at least more tactful) way you could have said the same thing, without a backhanded slight to several of your fellow racers.

I know that you meant no harm - but I can see a whole slew of drivers (including some of our very best and most talented) taking exception and getting riled by that comment.

:eek:

Nick

[WannaBeRacer]

Lol please don't take this personally anyone and I do realize that many race car's these day's use torsion bar's. I meant no disrespect to anyone just my personal feeling :o

[brujack]

After driving a Formula Car, even a lowly 1200 like I have, you will never go back to driving a sedan. The combination of extremely low weight and feeling the car cannot occur in a sedan.

Good luck on finding a sedan.

Bruce

[karmaboy]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm just not a huge fan of the older technology which 1200's use. I'm wondering if any shop's that have more then one car have any rental opprotunities available?


Meh. I have a season in f1200...still have a crapload to learn...especially about racecraft.
The technology of the car isn't what's holding me back.

[GordRoss]

I drive a formula ford and a GT4 firebird. I race both of them, but only one is a racecar. They are both fun in different ways for different reasons. True a F1200 is old technology (so is a formula ford) but if you can hustle one of them around Mosport near the front of the pack, your accoplishing something for real. Plus they can produce a serious pucker in turn 4, (or 2, or...)

Give Bill Vallis a call and talk vees, fast fun cheap and you'll learn more about driving than any door slammer can teach you.

Good luck with your choice, but if budget is a concern, you'd be foolish to exclude vees.

Cheers

Gord

[Doug Stark]

Having spent a fair amount of time staring into all those beady little eyes of 1200 drivers, I can say that it appears that they are having way too much fun out there - most look like they need a ciggie and soon will roll over and take a nap after they get out of the car. :D

It must be terrible to have to keep fighting for every inch of space deep inside a pack of 15 to 20 cars, wheels everywhere, mirror coming at you here and there, another row of god damn cars stacking up beside your row trying to suck their way past up through station six. Can two trains make it through the one track that runs through corner nine? Will the gravel be kind?

Has to be boring as hell dodging bits of turf as someone nine cars up over does it and then seems to go blowing by you as if they dropped an anchor and you had a secret turbo option.

Oh wait, now you’re up front and the pack of hounds behind you look hungry - can't screw up now - could end up looking like Chernobyl if I go sideways into 2A and no one else backs off! Damn leaf springs are making me bounce like a ride at the CNE over the curbs at 5A - wait everyone else is in the same boat- no worries except... that nose cone behind me looks like a proctologist’s tool in my mirror!

New 1200 mantra: ‘Don't look in mirror, don't look in mirror...’ Not working as not looking in mirror lets three guys by on the inside - damn! Screw that statement on the mirrors surface -these objects ARE a lot closer. Channeling Paul Tracy now - don't look - just 'chop'. :)

It must be near the end of the race - I know this without a lap chart as workers subtly move away from the walls - especially in corner 10. Why do they keep those yellow flags real handy? What do they know? What can go wrong? Oh wait...

Yes, boring old cars and low end technology and almost better then sex racing. If I could afford too - I would be soooo there.

Cheers,

Doug (Living vicariously through 1200 driver’s race events)

[Rolling stone]

No offence taken by me;)Im 63 this year and will be back racing in my F1200,I absolutley love every minute of it all,from loading the car Thursday night till I get back home,arriving at the track butterflies all going,looking at the other guys cars etc,etc.I run at the back,but I couldnt care less,at my age im not trying to upgrade or make a career of racing,but IM DOING IT!!:DThe excitment is unbeliavable,get a licence,see me at Mosport and you can have a ride in my car at practice time,after a few laps you will be pleasantly surprised,NOTHING like you think it will be,if you break the car it will be $23 to repair it...the advantage of low technology :pIm slow..but Im doing it;)

[Bubblecar]

As you can see - "WannaBeRacer" - we have a pretty avid group of drivers and fans in the entry level formula car classes (1200/1600).:D

What I love about Formula Vee (I've tested at race schools, but never actually competed in one) - is that, besides the lowest race budgets this side of Minden (;)) - the grid is made up of drivers that range from "kids" (still wet behind the ears :eek:), many of who are straight out of Karting at the provinicial, national and even international level - up to - "old-timers" like "Rolling stone" - and - pretty much EVERYTHING in between!

Some of those youngsters are incredibly talented and trying to build potential racing careers. A typical ladder to the pro's might look something like - F1200 - Formula Ford - F2000 - and then on to Star Mazda, Indy Lights, etc. etc. You may find that one of the racers you compete with at regionals - ends up in the big times - ALMS, Indy Car, F1 . . . (? - it does happen).

As for myself, I am by no means your typical racer and fortunately with a very high budget I can pretty much run whatever and wherever I want - but my talents and ambitions keep me mostly local. I moved through the ranks from my road car Eagle Talon, to a BMW, Sentra, Civic, 240SX and then spent four years running my Viper Competition Coupe and a couple of high end Corvettes. I then made a deliberate choice to move to "purpose built" racercars (formula car, spec racer or sportsracer). The difference is phenomenal and I fear there is no going back for me. :cool: If I had to do it all over again - I think I might even start out with a low-end formula car.

That said, I know the appeal of racing sedans or touring cars that are similar to what we drive on the streets on a daily basis. So, back to your original question . . .

Gateway - who was recommended above, have a full stable of cars from the Sentra, up to "Frankie" the monster 'vette, and other CASCAR/NASCAR/Transam type rides. Several other teams and drivers make individual cars available for the sprints and GT Challenge, but many of them are one or two car set-ups.

Good luck - and I hope we see you out there soon!



Nick

[Sasha]

Don't listen to Nick

Sedans for life, rubbins racin!

[karmaboy]

Nick...you are truly a gentleman.
Next time your FLibre guys pass me on the inside of #10 in practice...I won't curse out loud.

[WannaBeRacer]

Sure must be nice not have to worry about budget :o. I just would prefer to take my first lap's around Mosport is something that "feels" a little safer then a formula car. I have done a 1 day Barber school at Laguna btw. You drive both the miata's and their formula car. I did quite enjoy driving that formula car.

[Steven Scala]

I might have an EK Civic working this season for around $1k/weekend. Coming together slowly, tho.

[WannaBeRacer]

This is more within my budget now if only it were rwd lol.

[GordRoss]

You want RWD or "modern technology"?:rolleyes:

Seriously, open up your mind, find something in your budget and get out there and do it. ANY seat time will be a benefit to you

[chopper]

This is more within my budget now if only it were rwd lol.

You need to broaden your expectations, lol

[DJones]

Like you just said , you took a school and are still learning to drive quickly.
If you want to race ,with your own needs and desires be prepared to build your own car with alot of time,effort and money.
Best is to listen and learn, it's a very steep curve from the bottom.;)

[uptownguy]

Its not the cost of the ride its the cost of the crash you have to take into account.

its not hard for a crash to cost ten times the rental amount.

I have rented cars (both ways) that a crash would equal ten times the cost of the rental.

The rule in racing is you are always responsable for the damage no mater who is responsable for the crash.

Peter Austin
Montreal

P.S. if its your car you can chose how fast and how you fix it, if its the otherguys car its usualy instant pay, at his price to fix.

[WannaBeRacer]

No offence guy's but I think your being a little harsh. I completely agree that seat time is the best thing and am not ruling out any drivetrain layouts or level's of technology. These are just "nice to have's." I'm justing seing what's out there not only for my benefit but other's who may be in the same boat as me. In general I'm not a fan of renting anything and would prefer to own but am not really in a position to buy another race car at the moment. I do have some lap's under my belt in both my road car (calabogie Dunnville TMP) and the Super 7 my dad and I built (not caged yet).

It's looking as though I should invest the money into the Super 7 and get it solosprintable however I'd like to wheel to wheel race in something a little beefier then a lotus super 7.

[Steven Scala]

A super 7 could be the next best thing to a FFord for keeping sharp. Good plan.

As for damage liability, my rule of thumb was never to drive a car that I couldn't afford to buy in installments over a year if I absolutely had to.

Value on the Civic is $5k, which is a grand lower than it was for Sentras back when I was renting those.

I'm with you on the whole FWD thing, but as Gord said, it's a matter of operational efficiency. On the other hand, it's kinda neat to eat up the GT's at Mosport's downhill bends when it rains. Racing can provide its own small consolations.

[WannaBeRacer]

How's the civ coming btw?

[Steven Scala]

Hoping to be ready for the first 3-hour. Getting some cage upgrades in the next week or so. Working on a motor over the next little bit...

[WannaBeRacer]

I assume this is a gt challenge race. Where can I find for info on the schedule for gt challenge? The main page here just shows the date's without detail's. I'd possible be interested in running the 3 hour with someone.

[hojo]

wannaberacer, eventually you will have to change your name to I'maracer

I live in London, up in Byron area. I would be more than happy to talk in person about how and where to get started in racing whether it be closed or open wheel.

My first bit of advice is to get a plan together. Just to give you an idea If you were starting from scratch today and were purchasing and said to me you wanted to be at BEMC in may 8-9. I would say forget it. you won't be ready till the summer at the earliest. If you rush it, it's just gonna cost you more $$$ no matter what you do.

Renting makes things a little easier to get in, but can be much more costly on a per race basis averaged out over a few weekends, with or without crash damage.

I think what people are recognizing in your comments and original question is that you are only looking at what it costs to acquire a rental and may not be looking at the true total cost to actually race.

FYI, Rentals vary also based on what you get in your rental package as well so its hard to compare cost. some teams or guys do it differently so its important to know what you are getting.

call me if you'd like
519 871 5289

[hojo]

It's nice to see some favorable comments from other drivers and spectators about the F1200 class. knowing that other people in other classes appreciate the type of racing it has and being a part of it over the past few years its nice to see other competitors supportive of all the race series in CASC.

I ran F1200 from 07-09 and took a break last year (got married) and considered moving to another CASC series to try something different. I was really interested in the new GT 1 hr class that started up and still am but now I think that will be for later in life, I'm venturing back into 1200's again this year for 2 reasons, cost vs "actual races." I'm into racing not just going fast (1200 proves that, it's = to GT5 times) and virtually every race rain or shine in 1200 for me has been a 20 minute dogfight to the stripe. That's where i get my value for dollar. So it works for me on that premise

I think Doug Stark had a nice summary of what its like. it's near impossible to have a mechanical advantage, it really is all driver.

anyway i'm looking forward to hitting the track again in 2011

[WannaBeRacer]

I definitly know of the the other cost's associate with racing. I ran a go kart at Flamboro last summer. There's alway's "other costs" however I feel these should be included in the cost of rental. At least as far as tire's go anyway I have no problem paying for gas but should I pay for a set of tires for running one weekend? I doubt people are running a new set of tires every weekend. Now in the case of a flat then I could see but I doubt a set of tires will be junk after one weekend I'm just being honest here.

I'll continue to explore possibilities this winter and we'll see what happens in the spring.

[aaron22]

Like a few other people said, gateway is a good way to go for tin tops. There are some privateer renters out there though, you just have to ask around. Sometimes there are people looking for co-drivers for enduro events....you'd be limited for seat time but it would be an inexpensive way to do it.

I know you said you aren't interested in F1200, but if you want to keep your options open, AVR motorsports is having an open house later this month. Check out my thread in the general discussion section.

[uptownguy]

I definitly know of the the other cost's associate with racing. I ran a go kart at Flamboro last summer. There's alway's "other costs" however I feel these should be included in the cost of rental. At least as far as tire's go anyway I have no problem paying for gas but should I pay for a set of tires for running one weekend? I doubt people are running a new set of tires every weekend. Now in the case of a flat then I could see but I doubt a set of tires will be junk after one weekend I'm just being honest here.



I have rented rides for my drivers, formula fords for regional and national events, an ASA stock car for Mosport pro race, and rented my race cars out, Firehawk Motorola Camero's and five liter Can-Am Lola 333cs. and a Solstice GXP for regional and a CCTCC race.
Here are my observations on tires.

Tires are by far the largest variable expense, on the performance of the car, on the day of the event.

The driver can flat spot and destroy a set of tires in seconds, it may be to avoid an acident, but it happens.

When a driver pays for the tires, he can decide if he wants takeoffs from in back of the tire truck or stickers for every session.

If the owner pays, unless its a shared ride for an endurance race, the driver is at the mercy of whatever pucks the owner puts on the car.

Renting a ride is a lot like eating a very expensive meal it is usually a la carte,
You pay for for each selection, entry fees, fresh tires, extra practice time, transport, extra crew and of course damage.

Gas is usually factored in as it one of the few known expenses, along with usual consumables such as brakes etc.

I have just obtained several Sostice GXP’s that were used in the Setup series on Speed TV and they are available for rent, and depending on the tune and configuration they are eligible for Ontario and Quebec GT, Touring, Sprint along with the Castrol and World Challenge series and for driving Schools and lapping days.

The cost of renting a ride depending on the package, would range from several hundred dollars a day for a school or lapping session, to several thousand dollars a day plus modifications depending on the budget and requirements of the driver for a enduro or pro event. I believe the current cost of renting a competitive ride in the CCTCC series is between 35K and 50K plus tires, fuel, brakes damage etc.

For more information post your questions and I will try to answer them all on the forum, or phone me if you wish to remain anonomous, and I will post the questions and answers to help inform the readers of what is involved in reaching an agreement for renting a car, or buying a ride.

There is an old joke about renting a ride.

A driver and an owner agree on the price for a drive,
when they meet at the track they both have their hands out,
for they are both expecting to be paid by the other.

Peter Austin
Montreal 514 716 4884

[WannaBeRacer]

So you've those one's they used on that show with Tommy Kendall uh? Are people removing the abs on their production based car's? I'm not really sure why you would or at least somehow recalibrate it. Unless it's so you can run dual master's and use a mechanical bias bar in that case why not just use an adjustable prop valve with the stock master? I'm sure there are plenty of racers that would prefer abs over non abs brakes. This would help with flat spotting.

[uptownguy]

So you've those one's they used on that show with Tommy Kendall uh? Are people removing the abs on their production based car's? I'm not really sure why you would or at least somehow recalibrate it. Unless it's so you can run dual master's and use a mechanical bias bar in that case why not just use an adjustable prop valve with the stock master? I'm sure there are plenty of racers that would prefer abs over non abs brakes. This would help with flat spotting.

If the ABS is removed it is easier to flat spot the tires.

The Solstices from GT Racing in the CCTCC series used the stock braking system with Changed calipers and discs when used with the stability control as in the SCCA T2 class they have unbeatable braking.

So far, no one I know, has been able to get better braking than the factory engineers, the ABS and Traction control functions are often able to be switched off and on by the Drivers but the cost of modification and testing are usually beond the means and talents of all but the best of profesional teams.

Peter Austin
Montreal

[WannaBeRacer]

This is my thinking exactly other then the traction control. The only experience I have with factory TC is with my crappy GM work van which is useless in the snow even with it on.

[WannaBeRacer]

Any update on car's that might be up for rent? I'd definitly be interested in doing a gt challenge race with someone.

[RacerJason]

We (CAN-SAF Motorsports) would be willing to listen. Our front running, race winning Mazdaspeed Protege is available to rent for select races in GT Sprints or the CTCC. Professional driver coaching available, engineering of the car to your handling requirements, etc. Contact Ivan at the shop: 905-433-1661 for more information.

[uptownguy]

here are my new rental cars.

come race with your friends.

Peter Austin
Montreal
owner/renter 3 Setup Solstice GXP's

[Steven Scala]

Monticello, eh Pete?