Manual Brake Conversion

[ADAM]

does anyone know ....
1=how hard to convert to manual brakes?
2=how much modification?
3=cost/
4=problems?
5=types of parts needed?

basically i have to rip out my firewall mounted master cylinder and brake booster and relocate into the car...

[rmicroys]

I guess it depends on how much money you want to spend. You could go for a Tilton dual M/C setup, new pedals, bais adjuster and all that.

Why the need to go to manual brakes?

Technically, it isn't that hard, the biggest issue you may have is locating the new pedals - but you can choose between hanging or floor mounted pedals.

Modification wise, all depends again on the setup being chosen.

Cost... again... depends.

Problems, make sure you choose the right sizes for your masters based on the required pressure, caliper sizes etc. If you don't you could end up with an unstable car, or too firm or too soft (ie excessive travel) of a pedal.

Parts? Cadliac version: hard Lines, pedals with twin M/C with remote resevoirs, etc. etc. Gas pedal and linkage (as the one you have is likely not going to work with the newer pedals). That's about it, unless at this time you want all new calipers too - ching ching $$

[ADAM]

guess i will have to look aroud and see what is available...

i haveto get rid of the current system for 2 reasons

1=gets too hot due to its proximity to the turbo
2=new turbo i have is much larger and interferes with the current master cylinder..

[Wedge]

I don't think it's that hard at all, and shouldn't require any parts either.
I know I rally car guy that did this in an old Legacy. All he did was disconnect the brake booster, or something like that. Nothing changed, except the brakes were no longer powered, they were completely manual. Only drawback is that your leg got a serious workout trying to bring the car to stop.

The pros of doing this, is it gives a better feel of the road while braking. Also, while they're powered, sometimes the power isn't distributed evenly, so one wheel will lock up, and the other will keep turning.

[Marsh]

Do NOT get Willwood master cylinders! They are crap with a capital C! I don't care what anyone else tells you, or how much good luck someone else has had. Willwood master cylinders are only good for melting down and making bycicle kickstands out of. On Western's SAE car I replace 3 master cylinders in one week. We still found a bad one at the competition. At the competition we also lent 2 of our sketchy units from our parts bin to other teams whos willwood units had given out completely after 1 day of use. Worst made brake components EVER!

Spend the money on GOOD components.

[Shaman]

I had a lot of trouble with my Wilwood calipers too, BTW. They warped and seized. Any race I ran in 2001/2002, I had next to no brakes... ask Caius what he thought of going through 3 on the Shannonville Pro sideways at 170km/h trying to scrub off speed by throwing the car in perpendicular. It took me a while to figure out what was actually happening. :(

P.S. in my case they would seize and then unseize, leaving me with brakes again. Wonderful feeling having such a level of trust with a 580hp engine under the hood.

[CobraStang]

Originally posted by Marsh
Spend the money on GOOD components. So who's are good? Alcon? Baer?

[Marsh]

Alcon yes, Brembo yes. Carol Smith told me (apon finding one of our bad ones on the car) that Tilton and Girling (spelling?) are the only companys that make master cylinders, everybody else just makes cheap copies of those two. Oh and of the two Tilton is supposed to be the superior.

I haven't heard anything bad about Baer, but I've never hear anyone refer to them with a great deal of respect either, so I don't really have an opinion on them. Keep in mind that I'm getting this info from open wheel circles. Baer and companies like them do kits for sedans, and don't really market individual components for custom applications.

[GR8 Ride]

Adam,


Having just researched this extensively for my BMW, I have a pretty decent set of pricing for installing Tilton dual masters on the race car.

Some definite advantages to going with an unboosted, dual master setup:

1 You can fine tune braking front and rear by choosing MC size.

2 Braking feel is massively improved; feels as though your shoulder right down through your foot is connected to the four wheels. You could eliminate ABS on a car without power brakes, and still feel impending lock-up. Threshold braking is never easier than on an unboosted car.


However, it's going to take some test and tune time to find the right MC sizing. Be prepared to keep working through this for almost a full season....lots of minute changes to get the balance and feel properly sorted out.

All things considered, you're looking at about $1000 for parts for a Tilton triple master / dual pedal (clutch and brake) setup. The reason behind going with a dual pedal setup is that you can maintain consistency between the two pedals that way. Going with a single pedal from Tilton combined with the clutch pedal from the Nissan means you could have vastly different pedal heights, making shifting and driving more difficult.


Pat

[glh]

Adam if your car could have been purched new with manual then it's a snap just order the master cyl. from a rebuilder thow away the booster and bolt teh new master to the fire wall you may have to mod the lines to reach and you may need a differant push rod for the master again buy from the dealer . Again this will only work if power brakes was a option . otherwise some of the other guys have explained it pretty well
Steve
PS you could go smaller with the turbo and make a heat sheild
have fun

[wpfri]

Adam a popular conversion for manual brakes is the Porsche setup from a early 912 or 911.You use 2 911 or 912 master cylinders with a balance bar.Brand new the cost is around 200 usd.
William
Williams Performance Friction