View Full Version : New tire option?
01-22-2004, 10:02 PM
I know I'll likely be scoffed at but I was wondering about making ice racing more affordable again.What I have in mind is doing away with BOTH of the current tire type's-rubber and stud.
The reason being that stud tires are both costly AND time consuming to build and maintain(purpose built spec stud tires are far from affordable) and to keep up with the jones in rubber you need fresh blizzacks every weekend or two.I had over $1500 in tires/tubes(and I get at cost!)for the celica to run 4wd rubber last season!.
Its a well known fact that track prep is hard to keep up with all the erosion from the stud classes so to minimize the wear what if the only classing we had was with tire chains.
I'm not sure what it would be like to drive on these but I have a ice racing video here somewhere from most likely michigan that has cars on chains.
I'm thinking tires wouldn't need to cost much,likely could run anything that held air,the chains will last a long time and we would be able to have longer races because we'd have less classes to run in a day.
I'd love to hear the comments-but please no flaming and don't tell me how cheap ice racing is compared to other forms of motorsports blah blah blah(heard it all before).I crave competition and by having everyone on even ground with grip I think it would become an even better proving grounds for driving talent.
01-23-2004, 08:58 AM
The only thing I would have against chains is that if one breaks off as you are speeding down the extended straight and it becomes a projectile. I would not like to be the car behind that. I know you can make them as safe as possible but there is always a weak link.
As for blizzaks, not all top drivers are using them. I know some running cooper and goodyear. As for keeping up with the Jones, my blizzaks are three years old and running just fine for me. Will I win a race? No. Do I have fun each and every time out there? YES. And that is why I love the sport.
01-23-2004, 08:58 AM
Well Tom, it's my understanding that chains may not hold up to the forces of ice racing?? What if they were to fly apart and nail someone in the head? Go through a windshield?
But I guess that same argument can be used against studs too.
01-23-2004, 07:56 PM
I dunno about chains flying off,in the video I have the courses are MUCH MUCH bigger and faster than what we run on.They are also using all manner of vehicles from sprint car type with v8's to the usual fwd and rwd.
I didn't see anyone having issues on the video-who knows might come off all the time-might not ever come off.
I couldn't agree more with you crusher,I've won on michelin alpins (even though they suck)gaurdex 600 and 710's as well as blizzacks.I too have run the same tire more than one season with ok results.
The problem is with me I guess,since I started doing well I really hate to not do well!.And back when I ran the honda wagon in 4wd rubber I had the chance to see just how much of a difference fresh tires make.I think it was the 3rd weekend and I had won close to if not all the races up till then when all of a sudden Kiyo was smokin and I was having to drive like a wild man to first catch up and then get around(before that he was a mid packer at best) on saturday.
So on sunday morning I asked him what the hell he did to find so much speed-fresh tires was all he had done,he wasn't as quick on sunday-still finished in the top 3 I think.By the next weekend he was getting back to his old self again and wasn't much of a threat.(proves the tires go off very quickly)
My point is those with the means to arrive with freshly tractionised tires every weekend will have a huge advantage.I know this is supposed to be for fun and all but for me I would like to have the tires equalized and then when I'm beaten I'll know it was by driver ability or car prep.
Or why not follow what the guys in thunder bay do-no modifying tires period,I know tires will then last a helleva lot longer before they go away.
I'm very aware that in racing the guy with the most money has the biggest advantage but this sport is supposed to be cheap,it is not cheap unless you want to run 3 year old tires and get bashed around by the meat heads running in the back that think demo derby's are real racing.
Just wondering about options to keeping the costs down a little is all,
Do It Sidewayz
01-26-2004, 01:11 AM
personally..i've said it before and i'll say it again
I think that our series should look into a street stud class.
In quebec they run a street stud class and they look like they have a blast.
I don't think it would be that costly. Plus would offer much better grip.
I know that Ontario does not have street stud tires, as they are illegal, however there is enough stud tires surrounding us in Quebec and in some parts of the states.
01-26-2004, 08:16 AM
You get a lot of confidence from new tires, but they don't wear out as often as you think.... Re-tractionizing gets a lot out of them every few weekends.
$ saving tips
1.Use old tires on your non or lower powered axle.
2.Try Hercules polar trax
3.reuse your inner tubes
4.Buy only one pair for the season. A second pair halfway through if you really have to.
5. Try your old tires again. Gray Powell went from almost last to first throwing on a pair of 3 year old MZ's he couldn't hook up with before.
Sometimes you just need confidence (Tom Cruises specially matched tires in Days of Thunder anyone?)
01-26-2004, 12:39 PM
having ice raced in Quebec in various classes in years gone by, I don't think the spec street stud tire is the hot tip. the studs come out easily and you have to replace the tires unless you could restud them yourself. they didn't provide much more traction in rabbits and civics than tractionized tires. there was no where near the level of traction of a real stud tire which in Quebec was 300-400 studs per tire and road racing like traction.
also there was a time when the spec tire was a 155R13 that was not the hot tip for every car.
01-26-2004, 07:08 PM
Isn't it the powell brothers that bash and crash their way to the front?if they are then tires aren't the reason they do or don't do well.I haven't run fwd rubber for over 5 years so I'm not familiar with all the newer guys and their habits.
I'm not crazy about the idea of chains-just thought I'd round up some thoughts on altenatives to what we use now.
Silverwolf I've been running in 4wd rubber for a while so using mismatched/differently aged tires can do more harm than good for predictability not to mention differering tire od's(not really an issue on ice I know but its not always slick everywhere).
I disagree that they don't go away quickly,when Kiyo could run with me for the bulk of one weekend and no other time before and after those fresh tires then somethings up.
I personally use the same tires all season,the track conditions changing so drastically it makes telling when your tires are changing kinda tough-you can only judge by others in class.
Do It Sidewayz
01-27-2004, 12:44 AM
i will agree that New tires are faster.
Tom, i remember that weekend, when Kiyo got his new tires. He threw them on for the last race on Saturday, and was beating you. I couldn't believe it, so i took his car out for practice on Sunday Morning, in which i proceeded to scare the living piss outta him, as he was sittin in the passangers seat. That monday morning, i ordered up a new set of tires.
I think that a fresh set of tires, regardless of brand are at their peak for about 2 weekends (one weekend if running 1st and 2nd driver).
And these tires do get expensive, even when we get them at cost also. i'd hate to pay full price for tires.
Plus....you probably need about 3 sets of tires, as the conditions change. You need one set of tires for Extreme Cold (last weekend), one for temps from about -15 to 0, and a set of slush tires.
Gets expensive mighty quick.
The more i think of it, the more i wanna run studs. Basically build yourself 2 sets of tires at the begining of the season, and run them for a while (until studs go dull or start breaking)...which can sometimes be a couple of years.
01-27-2004, 08:35 AM
the powells are a lot nicer recently, theres only one brother left....
I agree that new tires are somewhat better, but you wanted options:D
As far as 3 types of tires, our slush tires are early 80's Sears Roadhandlers. Perhaps you can find a use for all your old tires, friends family...lots of swings or a fort:p
Do It Sidewayz
01-27-2004, 09:01 AM
other uses for tires...
i use my kart tires also..i probably have around 30 kart tires at the end of a season.
01-27-2004, 07:11 PM
Yeah Chris-it was surprising as hell to have Kiyo ahead of me and hard to stay with,I didn't lose to him as I did get him before race end but it wasn't easy!.
That was the same weekend I had my best ever start in the saturday qualifier-hows a 17th or so starting position to lead EVERY lap of the race!!:D ,Kiyo was leading just before the last corner(counter clockwise)and I just smoked him on the outside.
Looks pretty funny on the video for sure.
I also showed up with lots of tires for differing conditions last year-all new as the celica uses 14's and I've always used 13's for all the other cars.Got way expensive quickly!:(
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.