Tire indecision...Help!

[paulmon]

Okay, I've narrowed my 04 tire choice down to two scenarios and wouldn't mind some thoughts from the more experienced out there. I'm running R's for the first time this season so I'm not fully familar with what I can expect with regards to wear. My two choice are:

225/45-15 - Kumho Ecsta V700

205/50-15 - Kumho Victoracer V700

I much prefer the size of the 225/45-15, while overall diameter and sidewall are virtually the same the contact patch is .8" wider.

I'm going to be running the PITL events as well as the BMWCC events next summer. I was 3rd overall last year in BMWCC and was beaten by brothers who tied, so no one was 2nd place. They were the loan R-Comp runner who were in the same car (Fully stripped and gutted BMW 320) and tied for 1st overall. I'm going back to BMWCC to beat them. ;) Between the PITL event and the BMWCC events I'll be doing a total of 13 events, add to this a driving school at Mosport and 2-3 track days.

First, do either of these tires have a hope in hell of lasting through the season for me? Are there big wear differences between the Ecsta and the Victoracer? From what I've been able to determine the Victoracer does have a wear advantage from what I've read so is that my best bet?

Aside from Hoosier that wear pretty quick and cost a fortune are their any other tires I should consider? Yokohama? Toyo? Again, I'm tring to get the advantage of an R-Comp but don't need the top of the line no holds barred. I want to be a more competitive while not killing my street tires but buying more than one set of tire/season doesn't have a great WAF (Wide acceptace factor) . :D

Cheers,

Paul
---
Southern Ontario MINI Club
http://www.somc.on.ca/

[haniforama]

Out of the two choices, hands down, i'd pick the Victoracer.

I really like them - they are always predictable, last forever on my car (some people can't stand that :D ), and give great performance.

If you've got a driving style that prefers higher slip angles and you use the tires to scrub off speed, the Toyo Ra-1 would likely be your best choice for longevity.

On my car, i'd be able to run all of the events you listed on a set of tires, YMMV. BTW: Last year i drove a B-mod Hybrid Civic Si HB on 225-50-15" Kumho Victoracers on 15 X 7" OZ rims.

I ran the tires for 5 SOLO1 events, about 15 SOLO2 events and also ran they on my B1/BSS Integra LS for a 3-4 SOLO2 events (and i still have tread left).

Hanif

[paulmon]

Wow, that's one long list of events on a set of tires. I keep hearing good things about the Victoracer and so far that's where I'm leaning.

I'll do some quick readon on the Toyo but I've heard mixed reviews.

Cheers,

Paul
---

[haniforama]

BTW: Before anyone pipes in about me not being fast on these, i set FTD at a Regional event on them :)

Hanif

[Logan]

I'll pipe up with Hanif about longevity. The Victoracers will certainly last you the year.
I did a lot of events too (not as much as him) and have enough tread left to probably get half of 2004 out of these.

I've never run the ecstas, but I understand they are a much squirrelier version of the victoracer. Something about the tread design makes them slippery, even though the rubber compound is the same.

Why not get the 225-50-15 victoracer?

[Greg F]

One of the Kumho websites mentions that the ECSTA's must be shaved for dry competition, whereas the Victoracers can be used full-depth, wet or dry.

I think it's on the new USA site. If it's not there, try their other sites from around the world.

[paulmon]

Originally posted by Logan
I'll pipe up with Hanif about longevity. The Victoracers will certainly last you the year.
I did a lot of events too (not as much as him) and have enough tread left to probably get half of 2004 out of these.

I've never run the ecstas, but I understand they are a much squirrelier version of the victoracer. Something about the tread design makes them slippery, even though the rubber compound is the same.

Why not get the 225-50-15 victoracer?

The 225/50 is almost the same overall diameter as stock (approx .3" smaller) and I want as much gearing effect as I can get, within reason. Anyone who's driven a Cooper S will tell you, first gear is as tall as the CN tower. Also the 225/50 becomes an issue with wheels. I need a 42et 15x7 to run 225/50 where a 225/45 or 205/50 I can do it on 40et and maybe even 38.

Sounds like the Victoracer's are getting the nod. Should I have them shaved or just go at them full tread?

Thanks for the advice guys.

Paul

[paulmon]

I've been doing some more reading and discussing various options with a fellow MINI owner that autocrosses in the states, Brian Garfield (2002 SCCA Pro Solo H Stock Champion). Seems his experience with the Hoosier R3S03 (track compound) has been a good one. While it takes a little more to heat up he's run 65+ events on a camber challenged car which is very impressive. Seems the carcass on the A/R3S03 is stiffer lending to it's longer wear. It's also available in my prefered 225/45-15. The only issue, as always with Hoosier, is cost. Quick check on tirerack has them costing $250cdn more than the Victoracer.

I will be running with plenty of negative camber and intend on using a pyrometer. I must admitt that I'm tempted.

Anyone here ever run these tires?

Cheers,

Paul

[physix]

I you ask for the same compount is the stock car tire from Hoosier it is probable less the $160 a copy.

[miataboi]

Originally posted by paulmon
I've been doing some more reading and discussing various options with a fellow MINI owner that autocrosses in the states, Brian Garfield (2002 SCCA Pro Solo H Stock Champion). Seems his experience with the Hoosier R3S03 (track compound) has been a good one. While it takes a little more to heat up he's run 65+ events on a camber challenged car which is very impressive. Seems the carcass on the A/R3S03 is stiffer lending to it's longer wear. It's also available in my prefered 225/45-15. The only issue, as always with Hoosier, is cost. Quick check on tirerack has them costing $250cdn more than the Victoracer.

I will be running with plenty of negative camber and intend on using a pyrometer. I must admitt that I'm tempted.

Anyone here ever run these tires?

Cheers,

Paul

All I know....
Is that hoosiers on a mini cooper S will be a very expensive proposition.

You'll go through fronts like butter. (In autocross form, that is)
LOTS of wheelspin... and withoug a LSD... on every transition / slalom maneuver... wicked wheelspin (one-wheel-peel) leading to alternating puffs of smoke in a slalom section.
They'll heat-cycle to death quickly too, at that rate.

Lots-o-torque + front-heavy + weighty car + open-diff = a car that's hard on tires.

Long live the Miata.

[paulmon]

With careful tuning of the MINI's suspension much of that wheel spin can be tamed. An upgraded rear sway bar makes a huge difference as does the proper camber and shock settings. While I'd love quaife or something similar the $3000 it costs makes it unobtainable for this season.

I'm pretty sure I'm sticking with the Victoracers for the coming season.

Paul

[John P]

I have heard good things about the new Ecsta 710. I ran both the old Escta 700(garbage until middle of last year when they improved them) and Victorracers in Solo 1. Victorracer is an excellent long lasting tire(Better than ToyosRA1 except in the rain). Khumo doesn't want to repeat the problems with the old Ecsta but wants to be more competitive, so consider their new 710.

BTW Victorracers don't require shaving because they don't heat up enough in Solo 1 or 2 to overheat like they would in racing. You may want to swap them on the rim to add additional life on a soft car.

John

[paulmon]

Originally posted by John P
I have heard good things about the new Ecsta 710. I ran both the old Escta 700(garbage until middle of last year when they improved them) and Victorracers in Solo 1. Victorracer is an excellent long lasting tire(Better than ToyosRA1 except in the rain). Khumo doesn't want to repeat the problems with the old Ecsta but wants to be more competitive, so consider their new 710.

BTW Victorracers don't require shaving because they don't heat up enough in Solo 1 or 2 to overheat like they would in racing. You may want to swap them on the rim to add additional life on a soft car.

John

Thanks for the tips John. Preliminary reports have the 710 being more soft like the Hoosier autocross compounds. I'm going to let others be the beta tester of the 710. :D However, I'm continuing to read good durability reports regarding the Hoosier R3S03. The fact that it's a track compound means it takes a little longer to heat up but that doesn't seem to be much of a problem on hot summer days.

I still think the Kumho is going to get the vote mated to some Kosei K1 Racing 15x7 38et wheels.

Cheers,

Paul

[Chris P]

you mean R3S04 do you not?

[paulmon]

Originally posted by Chris P
you mean R3S04 do you not?

Haven't been able to find much on the R3S04, I was indeed refering to the 03. However the limited information I have found has suggested that the 04 is suppose to wear better than the 03. I guess more reading is in order.

Paul

[haniforama]

Paul - please e-mail me at haniforama@yahoo.com.

I have a pair of R3S03 hoosiers for sale used only once :)

Hanif

[max attack]

I too am having a hard time with tire selection,I also want the 225-45's but can't afford the hoosier's and the ecsta's simply scare me for solo1 use.
I wore my victoracers quite badly in only about 7-8 events with 2 driver's-by season's end only the 2 grooves around the center are still there.The biggest damage came during a test/play evening at the kart track early in the season,I ran 5 lap sessions and the tires wore dramatically after only about 4 of these(let tires cool before heading back out).
Perhaps my car with the open diff,soft pressures(pyrometer set) and a slightly aggressive driving style is to blame.In any case I need to make the right choice for dry use,have last years 32'r's for wet days.