Camber setting

[Meenya]

Hi,

The car is 1991 Toyota Celica 4wd Turbo ~ 3,200 LBS
I plan to bring it to the race track next season. Currently I'm looking for wheels 17x9" to fit 245 or 255/40/17 tires on it. Being 5x100 all the wheels I can find in this size are made to order ONLY.
So before I order the wheels, I need to figure out the offset for the wheels.

And this brings me to the question, what camber settings do people use on their cars? (my understanding FWD and 4WD cars tend to use similar settings compare to RWD cars)

There is not much room for error for me with that size of wheels and tires.

Thanks,
Michael.

[Pete@SCB]

Hi,

The car is 1991 Toyota Celica 4wd Turbo ~ 3,200 LBS
I plan to bring it to the race track next season. Currently I'm looking for wheels 17x9" to fit 245 or 255/40/17 tires on it. Being 5x100 all the wheels I can find in this size are made to order ONLY.
So before I order the wheels, I need to figure out the offset for the wheels.

And this brings me to the question, what camber settings do people use on their cars? (my understanding FWD and 4WD cars tend to use similar settings compare to RWD cars)

There is not much room for error for me with that size of wheels and tires.

Thanks,
Michael.

I would be impressed if you can get 9" wheels under the car, especially in the rear. I come from the wheel industry, and am always willing to try to push the envelope.

What size wheels do you currently own? Do some measurements from those wheels, and that will give you an idea as to how far and which direction you can go.

[Meenya]

I would be impressed if you can get 9" wheels under the car, especially in the rear. I come from the wheel industry, and am always willing to try to push the envelope.

What size wheels do you currently own? Do some measurements from those wheels, and that will give you an idea as to how far and which direction you can go.

All I can say is that you will have to wait till next season but fitting 9" wheels is not a problem and it has been done before.
My only concern at the moment is the negative camber.
So first I want to pick a camber setting and do an alignment for the car, at which time I'll be able to do accurate measurements.

[KLZEMX6]

Check out rota wheels...lots of wheels available 17x9 5x100 because that's the size that some subaru guys use. Plus they are very affordable.

As far as camber if you want to be competitive with a car like that I wouldn't set it at any less then 3 degrees of camber in the front and a bit less in the back

[Meenya]

Check out rota wheels...lots of wheels available 17x9 5x100 because that's the size that some subaru guys use. Plus they are very affordable.

As far as camber if you want to be competitive with a car like that I wouldn't set it at any less then 3 degrees of camber in the front and a bit less in the back

Thanks for the wheel info, there are plenty of 5X100 wheels available from Rota but most of them have 35mm plus offset which is what subaru guys use.
I need between 10~15mm offset on 9" rim for the rear wheels to clear shock and have room for some negative camber;)

Camber setting has been noted thanks.

[KLZEMX6]

Sounds like you need a 40 offset wheel and a I inch bolt on spacer,..sounds a lot more cost effective then a custom offset wheel

[Pete@SCB]

Sounds like you need a 40 offset wheel and a I inch bolt on spacer,..sounds a lot more cost effective then a custom offset wheel

Rota will make a special run for you, but you need to buy 20 wheels minimum. So, you could get 17x9, 5x100, 12P, in a couple of wheels, and you could even get them hubcentric at the same time. They don't cost much more than a normal application, but expect to wait a while.

There are some restrictions - they need to make the wheel already, and you need to buy the 20 wheels, and pay up front.

I would love to see a picture of the 9" wheel, at 10-15P, in the back of the car. I still think that you will need to do more work than simply bolting the wheel on to get it to clear. This is a stock fender, correct?

[KLZEMX6]

Rota will make a special run for you, but you need to buy 20 wheels minimum. So, you could get 17x9, 5x100, 12P, in a couple of wheels, and you could even get them hubcentric at the same time. They don't cost much more than a normal application, but expect to wait a while.

There are some restrictions - they need to make the wheel already, and you need to buy the 20 wheels, and pay up front.

I would love to see a picture of the 9" wheel, at 10-15P, in the back of the car. I still think that you will need to do more work than simply bolting the wheel on to get it to clear. This is a stock fender, correct?

its a stock fender but those alltrac's have an absolutely huge rear fender...the factory wheels and tires are inches away from the rear fender with no camber...so adding camber will give it even more room

[Meenya]

its a stock fender but those alltrac's have an absolutely huge rear fender...the factory wheels and tires are inches away from the rear fender with no camber...so adding camber will give it even more room

I donno why but multiquote just doesn't work for me...
Here is the link for pictures for anyone who wants to see
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29332

3rd last car scrolling down has
17x9 38et
25mm spacer: rear
255/40/17

This confirms your 40mm offset suggestion with 1" spacer
The reason I didn't go this way...I like the lip on Gram Lights 57Pro with 12mm offset (That's the rims I am getting and I already have 2 for the back with 12mm offset)

Ordering 20 rims is not an option for me...would have been nice if I could do that:)
Peter, you probably thinking of narrow body celica that does exist but most celicas of this generation have wide body so it is stock fender.
The last picture has
17x9 25et (front), 3et (rear)
245/40/17
If you willing to donate me 245 or 255/40/17 two used tires (as long as they hold the air in them) I can install it on the car and come and show you. I live not too far from the shop. I already have 2 rims for the back just waiting to order 2 more for the front.

That's why I don't like posting lol all I want to know is what camber people use for their cars:D

[JoeT]

Thanks for the wheel info, there are plenty of 5X100 wheels available from Rota but most of them have 35mm plus offset which is what subaru guys use.
I need between 10~15mm offset on 9" rim for the rear wheels to clear shock and have room for some negative camber;)

Camber setting has been noted thanks.

This maybe what you're looking for:

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/wheels/drag/product/submitProductSize.do?pc=22772&tmn=DR-31&typ=Car%2FMinivan

17X9 5X100, 17 Offset.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/wheels/drad31.fbr.ang.jpg

[KLZEMX6]

This maybe what you're looking for:

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/wheels/drag/product/submitProductSize.do?pc=22772&tmn=DR-31&typ=Car%2FMinivan

17X9 5X100, 17 Offset.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/wheels/drad31.fbr.ang.jpg

that sounds like it would work perfectly!!!

[Meenya]

This maybe what you're looking for:

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/wheels/drag/product/submitProductSize.do?pc=22772&tmn=DR-31&typ=Car%2FMinivan

17X9 5X100, 17 Offset.

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/wheels/drad31.fbr.ang.jpg

That could work but would need a tiny spacer as the last wheels that I had 17x8" with 27mm offset were just clearing the coilover with not much negative camber. That's why I chose 12mm offset on 9" rim as it adds a few mm of inside clearance for me to add some negative camber.

Could you recommend on camber setting mainly for the front wheels?

Thanks,
Michael.

[JoeT]

Hi Michael,

We can assist in camber settings if you can supply some information.

1). What's the car going to be used for, AutoX, Time-Attack, Race, Show?
2) Arm ratio of the front so we can calculate actual spring rate at the front.
3) What size springs you using for the front? (8KG, 9KG, 15KG?)

If its just for show, run enough camber to clear the inner lip. If its for AutoX, the premise is to be able to get the car to rotate, so a spring rates and camber curves are important in calculating proper camber.

Similarly for Time-Attack / Road Race, all need to be taken into account. I'm not too familiar with the Alltrack's multi-link setup in the rear. Is it a simple strut in the front, or double wishbone?

Hope this helps

[Meenya]

Hi Michael,

We can assist in camber settings if you can supply some information.

1). What's the car going to be used for, AutoX, Time-Attack, Race, Show?
2) Arm ratio of the front so we can calculate actual spring rate at the front.
3) What size springs you using for the front? (8KG, 9KG, 15KG?)

If its just for show, run enough camber to clear the inner lip. If its for AutoX, the premise is to be able to get the car to rotate, so a spring rates and camber curves are important in calculating proper camber.

Similarly for Time-Attack / Road Race, all need to be taken into account. I'm not too familiar with the Alltrack's multi-link setup in the rear. Is it a simple strut in the front, or double wishbone?

Hope this helps

I would like to set it up for "race" events mainly

Current suspension is DMS 40mm with double progressive springs FR 300 RR 180 (I'm pretty sure those are pound per square inch). I've been told that the springs are pretty soft while I've attended a few "race" events awhile back. So I was considering maybe upgrading to FR 350 and RR 250.
Not sure about arm ratio. Is that something one needs to measure or check in manufacture manual?

And yes it is simple strut in the front.

Basically this is a weekend type of a car, I don't want or plan to make a real race car out of it.

Thanks,
Michael.

[JoeT]

Hi Michael,

Yes for Time Attack, Race, those are pretty soft. Those are more like a firm street suspension.

DMS 40's can be revalved so not worried there.

The arm ratios and balance of the car (Front to rear weight distribution) along with camber curves will play a big part in suspension tuning, then after that, the DMS 40's would need to be valved to control the rebound (stiff springs) along with the compression valving. There will be "low speed" valving which is used the most, and high speed valving to tune (bumps, pot holes, expansion joints).

For those spring rates which you currently have, I'd start with -3 degrees camber with a measurement for roll center to make sure you still have some curve left after lowering. You will need to adjust your roll center for sure with those springs.

[Pete@SCB]

Here is the link for pictures for anyone who wants to see
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=29332

3rd last car scrolling down has
17x9 38et
25mm spacer: rear
255/40/17

Well, very interesting. I must have been thinking about a narrower bodied car.

You really are going to have to test to find the proper alignment. I would expect that you will be running 2-3 degrees of neg camber up front, and less in the rear (probably .5 degrees less than the front).

It all depends on how stiff the car is, and in all honesty, what your tire temps are. I am a slave to tire temperatures, and adjust based on the readings I get.

[Meenya]

Hi Michael,

Yes for Time Attack, Race, those are pretty soft. Those are more like a firm street suspension.

DMS 40's can be revalved so not worried there.

The arm ratios and balance of the car (Front to rear weight distribution) along with camber curves will play a big part in suspension tuning, then after that, the DMS 40's would need to be valved to control the rebound (stiff springs) along with the compression valving. There will be "low speed" valving which is used the most, and high speed valving to tune (bumps, pot holes, expansion joints).

For those spring rates which you currently have, I'd start with -3 degrees camber with a measurement for roll center to make sure you still have some curve left after lowering. You will need to adjust your roll center for sure with those springs.

Well, very interesting. I must have been thinking about a narrower bodied car.

You really are going to have to test to find the proper alignment. I would expect that you will be running 2-3 degrees of neg camber up front, and less in the rear (probably .5 degrees less than the front).

It all depends on how stiff the car is, and in all honesty, what your tire temps are. I am a slave to tire temperatures, and adjust based on the readings I get.

Thanks guys, looks like plenty of homework for me to do:)