E-testing

[JAYh]

Has anyone e-tested their car under the "Hot Rod" rule? How does that work, exactly?

- J

[miataboi]

I believe you automatically qualify if you've got a greater displacement than stock...

You can sometimes get dyno operators to run you under this class, to help you pass... (just higher tolerances... WAY higher)... But in all honesty... I'd be weary of doing this this way... as the info COULD be passed on as your car being deemed a "hot-rod" in an insurance investigation / claim process...

...and use the info against you...

CLAIM DENIED!




YMMV.

[Marsh]

The "Hot Rod" rule is for any car with a non-stock motor (i.e.: motor swap). The car then must meet 1980 emmissions, although I believe that all the stock emissions 'equipment' must be there (so if your car came with a cat, then you must still have one, even if you could pass without it.)

[miataboi]

Originally posted by Marsh
The "Hot Rod" rule is for any car with a non-stock motor (i.e.: motor swap). The car then must meet 1980 emmissions, although I believe that all the stock emissions 'equipment' must be there (so if your car came with a cat, then you must still have one, even if you could pass without it.)

...LIKE THEY CHECK!

:rolleyes:

[silverwolfracin]

The ministry is supposed to be informed of what the engine you installed was and you will be tested to it's standards(ex dropping a 92 Viper motor into a Reliant would have to pass as if it were a 92 Viper). The 1980 rule comes into play if the engine is older than their 20 years.
Your best off motor swapping into a 20 year old car....no emissions testing.

[Greg F]

So what happens if you drop in a '92 Viper motor but run carburettors instead?

And what the heck does, "YMMV" mean anyway?:confused:

[Suzie]

Originally posted by Greg F
And what the heck does, "YMMV" mean anyway?:confused:

Your Mileage May Vary

Suzie

[Greg F]

I have seen the light! :D

[JAYh]

Actually what I was thinking was to swap a Hyundai valve cover on to the engine as an absolute last resort if I couldn't get it through. "See, it's got a Hyundai performance engine in it! It's a hot rod!" :P

Some preliminary results:

Hydrocarbons under load: 80-120 (limit 89)
Hydrocarbons at idle: 1100-1600 (limit 200) :mad:
Everything else: PASS repeatedly

I'll post progress here as I throw stuff at it. I just put in a can of "Restore" oil additive which I've heard glowing reviews about (http://www.4g61t.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7297), tomorrow I'm going to flush the fuel out for Ultra 94 and fiddle with the timing.

Lucky thing I can do these tests for free at my dad's (non-accredited so don't get any ideas) shop!

- J

[miataboi]

Originally posted by JAYh
Actually what I was thinking was to swap a Hyundai valve cover on to the engine as an absolute last resort if I couldn't get it through. "See, it's got a Hyundai performance engine in it! It's a hot rod!" :P

Some preliminary results:

Hydrocarbons under load: 80-120 (limit 89)
Hydrocarbons at idle: 1100-1600 (limit 200) :mad:
Everything else: PASS repeatedly

I'll post progress here as I throw stuff at it. I just put in a can of "Restore" oil additive which I've heard glowing reviews about (http://www.4g61t.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7297), tomorrow I'm going to flush the fuel out for Ultra 94 and fiddle with the timing.

Lucky thing I can do these tests for free at my dad's (non-accredited so don't get any ideas) shop!

- J

Have you done an oil change recently???
If not... or even if it's a thin oil...

just put some thick stuff in there...
I re-filled with 20w50 JUST for the test.
It should work, unless there's some major problem going on...

Don't start changing everything... IF you have Hc problems... going to a LOWER octane would help... not going higher!

Don't bother playing with timing... put it within man. spec... that's tuned for emissions!

[silverwolfracin]

Low octane fuel is what you want. If you have unburnt fuel your hydrocarbons will be higher. Thick oil is good. Dump a gallon of gasline antifreeze or methyl hydrate (cheaper) in to pass a bad catalytic.

[negative$flow]

Hi guys I am new here but to try to answer the e-test question . I think the government defines a modified as a car that has an engine with a different # of cylinders than it came from the factory with . Ie a 32 ford with a v-8 . I don't think they allow you to go under the exemption if you increase displacement , but I could be mistaken . There is a ministry website www.driveclean.com

[JAYh]

As far as I know the cat is fine... The HC problems are being caused by a leaky #4 cylinder. When I tested the car two and a half years ago, it was at 160-160-160-90 PSI or something like that. I can't imagine it's gotten better on it's own (especially with my driving!)

My dad got his 380 000 km minivan to pass by fiddling with the ign. timing, that's why I thought I'd try that. Running higher octane fuel will prevent the ECU from retarding it automatically.

- J

[haniforama]

If it's a street car, then please clean it up - all our lungs will be happier.

Hanif

[negative$flow]

The hydrocarbons at idle are indicating an excessive amount of unburt fuel or oil getting into the combustion chamber{s} .This can ruin your cat but that is unlikely if you are still ok on CO2 and NOX . Are there any computer codes indicated that could signal a bad O2 sensor , tps or coolant temp sensor etc ? Something wrong with these sensors should also have a negative effect on CO2 . Do a compression test {you did previously and most likely this is still a problem} , check for a fouled plug , bad wire , coil etc . also a leaky fuel injector {one or more} could cause high HC . Many times an injector flush will help , it has to be done in a shop the stuff you put in the tank is not strong enough . I don't think changing fuel will help as you are too far off the limit at idle , it is unlikely you can fix this by pouring something into your gas tank although methyl hydrate does lower emission #s as someone mentioned before . If there is a mechanical problem like bad rings or valve guides it probably will have to be repaired before you will get close to passing .
In my earlier post I said the modified exemption was for non stock # of cylinders . The official wording is a swap to an engine of a different type , whatever that means . You will have to have that explained if you are still interested .

[JAYh]

The "Restore" stuff I poured into the crankcase is supposed to coat and soften the valve seals, as well as fill the little pits in the cylinder walls, temporarily raising compression. I'm hoping that will fix the overabundance of unburnt HCs.

Nothing's setting any codes... I'll check the plugs and the O2 sensor tomorrow, but I replaced them all for the last e-test. They wouldn't wear out in just two years... Right?

This thing likes to idle at 700 RPM - the HC readings drop dramatically (like in half) if I idle it at 1000 or so. Can the idle speed be raised somehow?

- J

[miataboi]

Originally posted by silverwolfracin
Low octane fuel is what you want. If you have unburnt fuel your hydrocarbons will be higher. Thick oil is good. Dump a gallon of gasline antifreeze or methyl hydrate (cheaper) in to pass a bad catalytic.

he won't listen.... restore is the magic snake-oil / silver bullet!

[RegaMaro]

Not sure how the hotrod status works when going from an N/A motor to something blown but for the majority of us domestic N/A folks if we change to any cubic inch motor that the car didn't come with from the factory it's considered a hotrod. The fact that you can't tell the difference between a 350 or 383(which wasn't offered from the factory) on the outside makes claiming hotrod status easy for us chev guys that may have trouble passing.

[rpr]

I had an 85 CRX with an 87 Integra engine, and they tested it as an Integra 1.8l. Not sure why, since it was 1.6l, but regardless it passed without any problems. It was likely way better emissions wise anyway, going from the crappy 2 barrel carb and no cat that was stock on the CRX to an MPFI setup with a cat.

[JAYh]

Believe it or not, the "Restore" actually helped a little. It raised the bad cyl from 85 PSI (as tested) to 105 PSI. Unfortunately, that just isn't enough.

Current engine compression:

170 - 155 - 185 - 105

I poured oil down the spark plug hole for the bad cyl. and tested it again and it shot up to 150 PSI, so I'm thinking piston rings? (I'm not going to bother replacing those when I have a perfectly good new engine in the garage.)

I also poured some "gaurenteed to pass" shit in the gasoline. It's a petroleum distilliate so of course WHILE it's in there my HCs are through the roof. It's supposed to clean out the cat. Once I run that through and refill the tank I'll hook it up to the gas analyser and see if it helped.

Plugs are NASTY, especially #4. Next fill-up I will try methyl hydrate in the gas tank and replace the plugs. The oil is Castrol GTX 10w30 - not thick enough?

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I am in fact listening... Keep 'em coming. I'm confident this thing would squeak through the 40-under-load test, it's the stupid idle test that's killing me!

- J

[RegaMaro]

I've known some guys to just use a litre or more of Isopropyl alcohol or straight alcohol in their motors to pass. What this may be doing to their injectors or seals I'm not sure but it's worked amazingly in some extreme cases.

Plus, make sure before you go in that your car is really up to temp.

[RacerRick]

I have never had an engine I could not get to pass...here are my favorite tricks.

Hot thermostat - a 196 can help an engine a lot
Straight 50 weight racing synthetic in the crankcase
1 or 2 litres of isopropyl alcohol in the tank
100 octane unleaded race gas
1 big can of restore
fresh plugs
fresh cat
advance the timing with the race gas

I managed to get a 260Km 2.6L Mitsu to pass with these tweaks. Damn thing needed a $600 carburator I just didn't have money to get at that time (poor college student).

Change the oil right after it passes to get the restore and molassas thick oil out.

[JAYh]

I'm looking into changing the cat right now. I've heard they primarily function on hydrocarbons?

Anyone know how to tell if a cat is worn out without taking it off?

- J

[miataboi]

keep blindly fishing.


THICK OIL!

[RacerRick]

Everything that I have listed does one of two things.

Improves the chance of complete combustion, or limits the amount of oil that is getting into the chamber.

Anything you can do to improve those two situtations will help you pass emmisions.

[JAYh]

Originally posted by miataboi
keep blindly fishing.


THICK OIL!

I put fresh 20w50 in last week. I also put new plugs in and tested all my ignition wires with an ohmmeter (they were fine.)

There is currently 5L of Ultra 94 and 5L of methyl hydrate in the gas tank.

The injector on the bad cylinder is unplugged, which reduced HCs drastically under idle - but now it won't pass under load since the other three have to work too hard. :mad: (It also set a code on the way home and started running like total ass - I'm going to clear the computer and plug the injector back in.)

- J

[miataboi]

Wow... it's a pretty bad cyl, eh?

If the rings are that bad... it may be a toughie....


Run even more restore and the same thick oil to the point of molasses...
MAY pass...

Not good for the car though... although it's already VERY tired.

You know the true cause of the problem...



Dilute the gas with a full tank of 87 octane. And use NEW plugs.
This should help a great deal if it's incomplete combustion... if it's oil-seepage... SOL. Sorry.

[miataboi]

could be an O2 sensor that's causing you to run rich as well...

[miataboi]

clean / new air filter may help as well...

(air filters to NOT compensate for worn rings, however! ;))

[silverwolfracin]

The cat will drop the numbers on all testing parameters a little. What it really helps is the NO numbers. High hydrocarbons are from unburnt fuel or burning oil. I personally recommend lower octane gas- with a 90% burn you'll leave more to be read by the sniffer.
If your check engine light is coming on you are most likely running in "limp home mode", ultra rich. If you can't keep the code cleared through the test. Try tricking the 02 sensor into leaning you out.
GM 02 sensors will run lean with 800 millivolts. Hook up an AA battery that is not quite fresh (new is 1100 millivolts) onto the 02 sensor. It will lean the fuel mix and burn everything in the cylinder.

[njansenv]

To the person who seems to have experience with the Hotrod status: was your car reclassified by the ministry? Us Neon guys often put 2.4's in (2.0 is stock), but with cams, e-tests can be an issue. Insurance, as always, is my primary concern....
I've looked into this in the past, but could get no 'real' info.

Nate

[RegaMaro]

to my knowledge it's just always depended on the place yer etesting at. WHen I had my car etested they didn't check any emissions equipment... just hooked my car up and it passed so no more questions asked. I had another friend who was having trouble passing under his car's classification so they tried it under hotrod and it passed. Some places will help you out, some wont. Not sure if the ministry see's your car and makes adjustments if it's tested under hotrod status tho.

[rpr]

When I did my Civic they never once opened the hood. I could have had a V8 in there, they would not have noticed. Even though it failed 3 times, they went the extra mile to help it pass the fourth. I can list what I did to get it to pass, but it was not engine friendly...

[njansenv]

I wouldn't mind seeing the list.... engine friendly or not. I've never had problems (yet), but I know a few people who have....

Nate

[rpr]

I basically used a bunch of what was suggested here:

- 2 containers of gauranteed to pass in 1/4 tank of gas
- 1 container of Wynn's oil stop leak stuff (bluish in colour)
- 1 container of Bardahl 'No Smoke', looks like honey but is thicker than molasses
- used synthetic oil, changed the day of the first test
- new plugs, correctly gapped
- slightly retarded ignition
- freshly cleaned but not oiled K&N filter
- new hi flow catalytic converter
- new gas cap cause the old one mysteriously failed between the first and third test

That's about it. I think the cat and Bardahl's made the most difference. This car is now probably cleaner than any other car I currently own. Also, I do not care what happens to the engine, for various reasons. Any or all of these might be long-term harmful to the engine. Especially the Bardahls. That is some wild stuff.

Tom

[silverwolfracin]

Originally posted by rpr
When I did my Civic they never once opened the hood. I could have had a V8 in there, they would not have noticed
How did they check the RPM's? It sounds like you could have put a Honda badge on a scooter.... or are those engines bigger:D

[rpr]

They just laid the sensor on the hood. Freaky, I know, but it worked just fine. And yes, my engine is bigger than a scooter engine...but I use a lawn tractor battery if it makes you feel better. :p

[TYSON]

I know someone who went to the dealer and had them have a look and provide a statement that the engine in the car was not available in the car originally. This is all the 'Hot Rod' rule states is required.

[rpr]

When I had the Integra engine in my CRX, they tested it as a 1.8L Integra. Not sure why since it was a 1.6L. It passed regardless.

[JAYh]

It's over.

http://publish.uwo.ca/~jmhoeber/images/sticker.jpg

I got a "conditional pass". By the time that expires I'll have swapped the engine so it's all good.

Woohoo!

- J

[TYSON]

Funny you would reply to this today, with the environment minister claiming they want to phase out the program now.:confused: