Yet another annoying preparation points question

[Paparazzi]

First generation Dodge Neons with AUTOMATIC transmissions came from the factory with a 52mm throttle body.

MANUAL transmission cars came with a 49mm throttle body.

Theoretical Question #1: If the car was originally a manual, can you swap in the throttle body from the automatic without using any points?

Theoretical Question #2: If the car was originally an automatic, but the transmission was replaced with a manual, can the throttle body from the automatic (52mm) remain on the car without taking any points?

Theorectical Question #3: If the answer to question #1 is "No", but the answer to question #2 is "Yes", why?

I feel like I'm working towards a degree in law...

[haniforama]

The cam on the automatic one would probably make it so touchy to throttle inputs that you'll end up performing the same :)

I think engine related mods are not accepted in the update/backdate rule, so you would have to match the correct throttle body should you want to do a conversion.

[Paparazzi]

Ahhh! But there is the crunch...

If I started with an automatic transmission and then later converted to manual, I haven't touched the engine. The engine is still 100% the way it was I when I bought the car new, and therefore zero points.

However, if I started with a manual, and then changed the throttle body to an automatic's, I may-or-may-not have to declare points (I'm still waiting for an OFFICIAL decision), even though the end result is a car which is identically equipped!

Enough of the legal discussion... I much prefer to talk tech...

You could always take the cam from a manual transmission's throttle body and put it on an automatic's TB... The best of both worlds.

[Nissan Racer]

So I guess we know whos engine is getting ripped apart and measured at the next event...whos got tools? :D

[Paparazzi]

HAHAHAHAHA. Very funny. (Not.)

I ask because I care, and want to make sure that I'm playing fair.

It's the guys that are really quiet that you should be looking out for. You know, the guy who never asks anything about point preparations but seems to have tremendous power, yet runs in Stock Class?!

You know who I'm talking about! ;)

Actually, I support more (any?!) inspections. I know that when I was go-karting that there was a thorough safety inspection before each race day, and it was not uncommon to be asked to take something on your kart apart to prove that you're not using illegal "Space Shuttle" parts.

CASC Solo II, by comparison, is a free-for-all.

Maybe we should just get everyone to leave their hoods up before the first run.

[gatherer]

it's been discussed before...

I'm all for safety inspections

but safety insections are not Tech inspections there is a difference. Tech inspections in my opinion would take too long to do and should therefore only be done if an official protest is made...

as for your orginal question... I got one..

in the stock classes are you even allowed to change from auto to manual??? I didn't think so I thought you had to run the car as it came

[Brent]

Originally posted by haniforama
The cam on the automatic one would probably make it so touchy to throttle inputs that you'll end up performing the same :)
.

Not if you change over the shaft and the butterfly to the auto TB. Well, not as touchy.

[Peter Lejbjuk]

From the rule book: The updating and/or backdating of engines, transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit; component parts of these units may not be interchanged. If modifications are made, they must conform to the modification allowances in Street Prepared category.

So you cannot swap throttle bodies, and swapping just a transmission only does not allow engine modifications.

If you swap the TB or cams you have to take points unless you swap the whole engine unit as a whole. And even still the update/backdate option is only available in SP. If performed in stock or SS, you are moved immediately to SP.

Regarding tech inspections. I plan to keep an eye on the front runners of every class. It is difficult to police the rule book because some of the inspection needed to identify someone cheating is beyond the scope (ie: engine teardown) of our series. That said, if someone puts in a formal protest through the proper channels a full inspection will be performed.

Safety inspections will be performed randomly throughout the series. I did a quick look over for all cars at the HADA event looking for the obvious like missing wheel studs and non-DOT tires.

Any concerns regarding the rules or whether or not someone is following them can be emailed to myself. Check the addy in the back of the rule book.

-Pete
Chief Scutineer

[Paparazzi]

Brent: Will you be at the next race?

We need a stronger Neon presence!

[tanney]

I agree with Pete. In order for any of these changes to happen without points, the vehicle needs to be at the SP level, then that update/backdate rule can happen.

[Brent]

Originally posted by Paparazzi
Brent: Will you be at the next race?

We need a stronger Neon presence!

Nope, my car won't be ready until some time in June (hopefully).

I think you guys are doing just fine.

My last post should have read shaft and cam, not shaft and butterfly. Doh.

[fabguy]

I'm all for inspections. Or at least opening the hood for all to see that I have nothing under there except for the 4 hamsters. I'm hoping to upgrade to guinipigs one day.

[njansenv]

So you won't be running for a bit either this year, eh Brent? Kinda sucks... Hows YOUR engine build going? Things are going 'ok' here, though I better find an engine soon...:) (note to others: DON'T buy a DC reman engine.:mad: ) I'll be missing too many events while I search for a suitable engine....

I'm glad Papparazi is honest: knowing Neons, there are MANY ways it would be possible to 'cheat', without anybody noticing, even at tech. (I'm sure this is true for most vehicles). For example, a 2.4 could be made to look identicle to a 2.0, with minimal effort. Only way to check would be to measure the stroke.... (no, I DON'T intend to do this...:D )

Nate

[Yvan]

solo works on the honour system - there are tons of ways each of us could mod our cars without anyone being able to tell

keep honest and don't be afraid to launch a protest

[Brent]

Originally posted by njansenv
So you won't be running for a bit either this year, eh Brent? Kinda sucks... Hows YOUR engine build going? Things are going 'ok' here, though I better find an engine soon...:) (note to others: DON'T buy a DC reman engine.:mad: ) I'll be missing too many events while I search for a suitable engine....

I'm glad Papparazi is honest: knowing Neons, there are MANY ways it would be possible to 'cheat', without anybody noticing, even at tech. (I'm sure this is true for most vehicles). For example, a 2.4 could be made to look identicle to a 2.0, with minimal effort. Only way to check would be to measure the stroke.... (no, I DON'T intend to do this...:D )

Nate

Hopefully my engine will be finished this week but I am not going to call and rush him while he is working on my engine. I might not pick it up for a week or 2 after it is finished and he wants his money, though. I have a sohc short block if you want it.

[tanney]

You also have to remember that there are a lot of seriously knowledgable car buffs in the Solo 2 masses.....

It truly taints the sport, at this level, when someone has to cheat to win! If you can't win on your own merit, what's the point?

Maybe I shouldn't say that two loud;

As reported by the Ottawa Citizen;
[quote]
Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 300 employees and …

30 have been accused of spousal abuse,
9 have been arrested for fraud,
14 have been accused of writing bad cheques,
95 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses,
4 have done time for assault,
55 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit,
12 have been arrested on drug related charges,
4 have been arrested for shoplifting,
16 are currently defendants in lawsuits,
62 have been arrested for drunk driving in the LAST YEAR,
Can you guess which organization this is?

It is the 301 MPs in the Canadian Parliament.
[end quote]

[Greg F]

Originally posted by Brent
Hopefully my engine will be finished this week but I am not going to call and rush him while he is working on my engine. I might not pick it up for a week or 2 after it is finished and he wants his money, though. I have a sohc short block if you want it.

And if it's finished this week, does that mean you break it in driving about for hours in the dead of night so you can make the Pro Slalom on Monday? :D

[Brent]

Originally posted by Greg F
And if it's finished this week, does that mean you break it in driving about for hours in the dead of night so you can make the Pro Slalom on Monday? :D

I'm sure the thought would cross my mind but I have to tune the fuel on a dyno after the break in period before any WOT.

I have done that before when I raced snowmobiles. We picked up my new sled Fri evening, went to the cottage, drove it till I was frozen, studded the track, installed the carbide runners and adjusted the suspension. Then raced it Sat and Sun.

[njansenv]

Originally posted by tanney
You also have to remember that there are a lot of seriously knowledgable car buffs in the Solo 2 masses.....

It truly taints the sport, at this level, when someone has to cheat to win! If you can't win on your own merit, what's the point?

[end quote]

Don't get me wrong, I FULLY agree, and will take the 'hit' when I swap motors. I was simply giving kudos to Paparazzi for being honest about a nearly 'undetectable' mod. (which would not likely make much of a performance difference)

Nathan