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View Full Version : WIL at OTA MIR Weekend.


Gwoody27
07-06-2015, 09:51 AM
Lets get this thread started.

1. I love acronyms (ILA)
2 Vettes love MIR and very well driven ones are scarey scary fast, WOW
3. Helping with the Race School was an excellent way to gain confidence, thanks.
4. Super challenging schedule was managed by everyone annd provided a memorable event.
5 Really good to be part of an 8 car class, all good drivers and fun guys too.
6. Watch out for Sean McP and James F. These guys are good.
7. Alan C, I'm after you keep watching your mirrors.
8. Blue Camaros rock and fast too.
9. Last but not least, it was outstanding to have Kelly back with us at the track, now for a new car for him?

dubya_rx
07-06-2015, 11:24 AM
1. Three sessions in the morning is not nearly enough time to get familiar with the track again.
2. Arriving with 3/4 tank and a 20L jerry can is not enough gas.
3. Steve says Subarus catch on fire.
4. FWO on your "best" lap sucks.
5. It's actually pleasant being last on the grid. Gives you much more time to talk with timing.
6. Heading straight west going home is better than sitting in 401 traffic.

10gt61
07-06-2015, 01:24 PM
1 - The Race and OTA organizers, volunteers and track workers this weekend were superb.
2 - I missed the track more than I realized.
3 - Was a little frustrating not being in the mix with my GT2 competitors - and we could've used another Mustang at this Ford/Chev event to compensate a little more for the overwhelming presence of Corvettes!!
4 - Driving my '67 as a Pace Car for the Race School Race Simulation was more fun that I expected! Will do it again next year.
5 - Was great to see you all again (but I knew it would be ;))

Greg Campbell
07-06-2015, 03:43 PM
1. My fuel consumption has gone up; 27 laps in practice plus 9 in competition took up 95 liters in gas. Ouch...
2. MIR is all about confidence; in the car, your tires, brakes, and most importantly yourself.
3. If the Nurburing Ring gives you 'Ring-Worm' than Mosport gives you MIR-itis and it's great to see other people catch the bug. To go from the morning with being unsatisfied with their performance and not knowing how to go faster to spending the afternoon trying to drum up support for a 4th timed heat because you want to drive it again and again.
4. AD08Rs wear like iron. Three OTA events and two T&T lapping days on and I've got a little bit of shoulder wear on the outside left but asides from that there's not much. According to the 'Internets' they do not heat cycle out like RS3s, but I will have to wait and see.
5. Events close to home are great, and having the young one come and stop by for a visit is a great 'cherry' on top of a 'sunday'.

It looks like we had a few minor mechanical, but otherwise and uneventful day; always a good thing.

Looking forward to seeing many OTA faces at Calabogie in August.

kmorris
07-06-2015, 03:54 PM
1. The complex schedule with race school and OTA was managed very well, with maybe enough time left over for a 4th run.
2. Driving at Mosport is just TOO MUCH FUN. There is just no substitute for speed, elevation, and all the other intangibles that make it a great place.
3. Great job by organizers, volunteers and marshals.
4. Running my car with wing angles dialled right down provides lots of extra excitement on the back straight, but no more top speed. Weird.
5. I really need to work on some ergonomic improvements. Ouch.
6. It appears that the release of the BR-Z/FR-S has had a huge effect on our attendance. Almost as many of those as Corvettes. Or maybe the Miata crowd have migrated.

Anyway, it was a great and uneventful day at Mosport.

Gary
07-06-2015, 07:51 PM
1. OTA runs really superb schools that build solid skills and confidence. I've been to both this year and they're great value. Many thanks to John P. for his coaching.
2. Every event I've been to has been really well run by the volunteers who contribute so much. Huge thanks are due.
3. If I ever had any doubts about the wisdom of resurrecting an old and slow racer as my Time Attack vehicle in favour of something more shiny and powerful, they are gone now. The car has quite a bit more capability than I am presently able to extract, and besides that, it's really fun to drive. And, with all of the factory's claimed 126 horses running wild and free under the hood while running up the MIR back straight, there is lots of time to think about which corner entry line to take into turn 8.
4. After two events since dis-assembly and re-assembly, the engine continues to retain all of its oil behind the front timing chain cover, so I am on the cusp of declaring the leak fixed.
5. Carrying a spare MAF is a good idea, as I only missed one session while replacing the dead one.
6. MIR is so much fun, I can't wait to do it again. In the meantime, roll on Calabogie.

ONdriver
07-06-2015, 10:10 PM
My turn:

1. The new (for me) engine runs quite well right up to the rev limiter
2. My transmission is getting a bit stiff to shift so if anybody knows a rebuilder with Tremec experience send a note my way
3. Four year old Nitto tires still work very well as long as they've been stored properly
4. It took until the last run of the day to get my confidence back entering turn 8, after having a front row seat a few weeks earlier witnessing a certain blue Mustang not getting it quite right
5. Bilsteins are vastly superior to OEM, well worth the PIP's
6. I'd like to live closer to MIR, but not so close I can hear it!
7. Great to see a bunch of new faces at OTA

John P
07-06-2015, 10:47 PM
My turn:

2. My transmission is getting a bit stiff to shift so if anybody knows a rebuilder with Tremec experience send a note my way


Talk to Stephen about some Amsoil. Will smooth out those shifts.

JohnP

Dave Barker
07-06-2015, 11:41 PM
1) AiM data loggers can give some great information, especially over time
2) Switching tires from Sat to Sun gives you even more information as long as the weather and track stay consistent
3) 4 year old Nitto NT01s blow away 300 treadwear Michelins in the handling department (consistently over 0.1g and in many places more).Cornering speeds are not only higher but easier to maintain.
4) 300 treadwear tires consistently roll much better than NT01s. Despite getting out of 5B a full 9kph slower, top speed was 8kph higher before turn 8. (Admittedly had to shift to 5th with the Nittos and could redline the Michelins in 4th as they are sig taller. OTOH the Nittos effectively give me a better rear end gear ratio)
5) I go a lot faster on the tires that are slower in a straight line, even at MIR.
6) Knowing the car can hit those straight line speeds makes me happy that the motor is working just fine.
7) Going that much faster into 8 makes me much more anxious
8) If you have enough time to cool down, you might not crack a rotor until the end of the day.

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 12:13 AM
1. Matt was a great coach and had a good approach toward coaching the previously uncoachable. I was always against being taught anything before this weekend. I enjoyed my time learning from him.
2. My corner speeds climbed with every lap. Just couldn't hold it together down the straights in the heat. Maybe its time for the stock 13 year old radiator to go. My corner 8 apex speed was 164.7 kmh on my last lap which I felt good about at the time.
3. Skipping Calabogie in the hope of regrouping and getting the car ready 100% for the final 4 rounds.
4. I want to get out to MIR one more time at the end of the year to see what I can do. I might be getting hooked.
5. Thanks for trying to welcome an obnoxious guy and more obnoxious car into the fray. I feel like everyone is trying to make a special effort or everyone is just very nice.

Apex177
07-07-2015, 12:59 AM
1. I need a fair amount more practice on the gp track, before I can get to the limits of my car, even if it's not a particularly fast car
2. Rolling the windows up gained me 2 kph on the back straight, 193 kph or atleast as my speedo reads :)
3. My fuel gauge lies to me at higher speeds, but I don't seem to get fuel cut at low levels at least
4. We have a great group of organisers, that make grid marshaling a relatively easy and painless task
5. The coveted Ota mug lives up to the hype :p

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 07:42 AM
1. I need a fair amount more practice on the gp track, before I can get to the limits of my car, even if it's not a particularly fast car
2. Rolling the windows up gained me 2 kph on the back straight, 193 kph or atleast as my speedo reads :)
3. My fuel gauge lies to me at higher speeds, but I don't seem to get fuel cut at low levels at least
4. We have a great group of organisers, that make grid marshaling a relatively easy and painless task
5. The coveted Ota mug lives up to the hype :p

Your mild mannered S2000 was hitting 193 kph... My loud 350Z was hitting 198.1 kmh on Sunday afternoon

3wheeler
07-07-2015, 09:12 AM
Your mild mannered S2000 was hitting 193 kph... My loud 350Z was hitting 198.1 kmh on Sunday afternoon

Either you ain't getting a good drive out of B/driving into 8 deep enough, or you have serious engine issues.. :confused:

My car with aero, made around 190whp and hit 196kph.

Wish I could have contributed to the WIL. At least my student from Saturday did EXTREMELY well, which is almost as good a feeling!

3wheeler
07-07-2015, 09:14 AM
1. I need a fair amount more practice on the gp track, before I can get to the limits of my car, even if it's not a particularly fast car
2. Rolling the windows up gained me 2 kph on the back straight, 193 kph or atleast as my speedo reads :)
3. My fuel gauge lies to me at higher speeds, but I don't seem to get fuel cut at low levels at least
4. We have a great group of organisers, that make grid marshaling a relatively easy and painless task
5. The coveted Ota mug lives up to the hype :p

Keep it up Jeremy, you have made quite a bit of improvement since last year!

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 09:43 AM
Either you ain't getting a good drive out of B/driving into 8 deep enough, or you have serious engine issues.. :confused:

My car with aero, made around 190whp and hit 196kph.

Wish I could have contributed to the WIL. At least my student from Saturday did EXTREMELY well, which is almost as good a feeling!

I'll post full vids. It's engine/ overheating pulling timing I think at this point.
Reserve judgement until you see the youtube video. Then any help would be appreciated.

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 09:45 AM
I'll post full vids. It's engine/ overheating pulling timing I think at this point.
Reserve judgement until you see the youtube video. Then any help would be appreciated.

Your student was pulling football fields on me down the straight in the timed run. it was fun to watch.

3wheeler
07-07-2015, 10:34 AM
Its a missile! With me in it we were around 220kph, so I am sure he was getting closer to 225-230 on Sunday. Would have loved to do more than a few laps above 60% ;)

Anyways, back to WIL!

scorcherjf
07-07-2015, 10:37 AM
1. Best weekend I've had at the track, ever. Thanks to the great organizers, instructors, fellow OTAers and marshals/EMTs.
2. Corey is a great instructor - despite being new to this track he got me up to a decent pace (but still very safe) in no time at all. Miles also helped refine my line the next day.
3. You really need faith in the mechanical soundness of your car. Exiting turn 2 while WOT I was wondering how my car was physically able stick every time.
4. Simulators really help you prepare for a track if it's available on their system. Despite only having a couple days previous at MIR, doing a lot of simulator driving really helped me learn the track so I had a few less surprises when the real day came.
5. We have a really fast group of Novices!


2TH PWR, about your top speed on the straight, as we were talking about on the grid, I think it might be a combination of your gearing, aero drag, and also tire drag. You have very sticky and wide 295's all around for a relatively light car. I'm hitting 225kph (GPS speed) before I brake for 8 and I feel I'm being held back by my NT01's vs. a harder tire. In comparison, you're going through 8 at 164.7kph which blows my minimum speed away there of 144kph so that's where those TD's are paying dividends! I can shoot you over my AIM data if you want to compare the graphs. I remember watching your TMP video and on the straights you're only a few kph less than me so I would've assumed you'd be quite close at MIR but maybe the aero drag really slows you down above 150kph?

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 11:00 AM
1. Best weekend I've had at the track, ever. Thanks to the great organizers, instructors, fellow OTAers and marshals/EMTs.
2. Corey is a great instructor - despite being new to this track he got me up to a decent pace (but still very safe) in no time at all. Miles also helped refine my line the next day.
3. You really need faith in the mechanical soundness of your car. Exiting turn 2 while WOT I was wondering how my car was physically able stick every time.
4. Simulators really help you prepare for a track if it's available on their system. Despite only having a couple days previous at MIR, doing a lot of simulator driving really helped me learn the track so I had a few less surprises when the real day came.
5. We have a really fast group of Novices!


2TH PWR, about your top speed on the straight, as we were talking about on the grid, I think it might be a combination of your gearing, aero drag, and also tire drag. You have very sticky and wide 295's all around for a relatively light car. I'm hitting 225kph (GPS speed) before I brake for 8 and I feel I'm being held back by my NT01's vs. a harder tire. In comparison, you're going through 8 at 164.7kph which blows my minimum speed away there of 144kph so that's where those TD's are paying dividends! I can shoot you over my AIM data if you want to compare the graphs. I remember watching your TMP video and on the straights you're only a few kph less than me so I would've assumed you'd be quite close at MIR but maybe the aero drag really slows you down above 150kph?

When I post my vid it will be obvious I didn't have close to the power I had at TMP at MIR. But yes if you have AIM data for me to overlay send it to mgardner.dds@gmail.com.

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 01:54 PM
1. Best weekend I've had at the track, ever. Thanks to the great organizers, instructors, fellow OTAers and marshals/EMTs.
2. Corey is a great instructor - despite being new to this track he got me up to a decent pace (but still very safe) in no time at all. Miles also helped refine my line the next day.
3. You really need faith in the mechanical soundness of your car. Exiting turn 2 while WOT I was wondering how my car was physically able stick every time.
4. Simulators really help you prepare for a track if it's available on their system. Despite only having a couple days previous at MIR, doing a lot of simulator driving really helped me learn the track so I had a few less surprises when the real day came.
5. We have a really fast group of Novices!


2TH PWR, about your top speed on the straight, as we were talking about on the grid, I think it might be a combination of your gearing, aero drag, and also tire drag. You have very sticky and wide 295's all around for a relatively light car. I'm hitting 225kph (GPS speed) before I brake for 8 and I feel I'm being held back by my NT01's vs. a harder tire. In comparison, you're going through 8 at 164.7kph which blows my minimum speed away there of 144kph so that's where those TD's are paying dividends! I can shoot you over my AIM data if you want to compare the graphs. I remember watching your TMP video and on the straights you're only a few kph less than me so I would've assumed you'd be quite close at MIR but maybe the aero drag really slows you down above 150kph?

Fung Blue line. Fastest lap.
Gardner Desperation Green line. Last lap. I had a little more power 2 laps previous hence that lap was faster. I did choke T5 trying to dive in, but I didn't miss a shift or lift

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/2THPWR/fung%20vs%20g_zps4dev2ok7.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/2THPWR/media/fung%20vs%20g_zps4dev2ok7.jpg.html)

10gt61
07-07-2015, 02:05 PM
My turn:

2. My transmission is getting a bit stiff to shift so if anybody knows a rebuilder with Tremec experience send a note my way
4. It took until the last run of the day to get my confidence back entering turn 8, after having a front row seat a few weeks earlier witnessing a certain blue Mustang not getting it quite right


2. Perry, it might just be a worn shifter bushing. I had an '07 that the shifts became very stiff in and the new bushing made it feel like new.

4. You can get a turn right hundreds of times in a row, but then make one mistake and :eek: !
Moral of the story - respect MIR.

scorcherjf
07-07-2015, 04:33 PM
Fung Blue line. Fastest lap.
Gardner Desperation Green line. Last lap. I had a little more power 2 laps previous hence that lap was faster. I did choke T5 trying to dive in, but I didn't miss a shift or lift

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j300/2THPWR/fung%20vs%20g_zps4dev2ok7.jpg (http://s83.photobucket.com/user/2THPWR/media/fung%20vs%20g_zps4dev2ok7.jpg.html)
Nice overlay. Really shows the differences between the cars. 1.6 G's! Wow that must be a thrill ride! Near the end of the straight you're actually not gaining any speed for the last uphill section which is pretty bad... I think it must be engine issues as you mentioned rather than aero/tire drag. Judging by how much faster you went through turns 1-4, you could probably do 9 & 10 a lot faster which you maybe did on previous laps? It's hard to string the perfect lap together into one haha. I actually did 9-10 faster in other laps, as well as 2, but made mistakes on other turns. I started downshifting into 2nd at 5 as well which helped my straightaway speed slightly. With your engine sorted out I think you'll be below 1:30's!

2TH PWR
07-07-2015, 07:24 PM
Nice overlay. Really shows the differences between the cars. 1.6 G's! Wow that must be a thrill ride! Near the end of the straight you're actually not gaining any speed for the last uphill section which is pretty bad... I think it must be engine issues as you mentioned rather than aero/tire drag. Judging by how much faster you went through turns 1-4, you could probably do 9 & 10 a lot faster which you maybe did on previous laps? It's hard to string the perfect lap together into one haha. I actually did 9-10 faster in other laps, as well as 2, but made mistakes on other turns. I started downshifting into 2nd at 5 as well which helped my straightaway speed slightly. With your engine sorted out I think you'll be below 1:30's!

I think so too. Engine is weak likely due to overheating is the guess. I did make mistakes of inexperience/ desperation. I had to eat some humble pie trying to dive bomb 5. That did cost me. Its only when you see the graph do you realize that the advice your coach gave you should be stuck to. Goes under the knife again Friday.

2TH PWR
07-08-2015, 10:51 AM
I was sent some more data. will try and post some more graphs later.

for now this is my fastest lap. power decreased lap 2 and 3. although the tires and corners got better in lap 2 and 3 it wasn't enough and the times were slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q33VNGBhiY

dubya_rx
07-08-2015, 11:29 AM
Anyone else not see the photo (photo not found)?

wparsons
07-08-2015, 11:31 AM
Anyone else not see the photo (photo not found)?

Of the overlay? It's not showing for me either.

3wheeler
07-08-2015, 12:33 PM
I was sent some more data. will try and post some more graphs later.

for now this is my fastest lap. power decreased lap 2 and 3. although the tires and corners got better in lap 2 and 3 it wasn't enough and the times were slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q33VNGBhiY

After watching the video here are some things I would suggest you try the next time at MIR.

This can be used as reference for anyone really so its not specific to Michael.

*Note: Some suggestions are for experienced drivers*

Corner 1 - Carry more speed over the crest and lightly brake down the hill and about a car length into the new asphalt strip. Once braking is done, you should be back to 100% throttle. Commitment is key here! This does require a lot of confidence, but when done right, you will pick up about a second or more by the time you reach the top of two.

Corner 2 - brake just before the crest and to the top of it and as you start the down the hill, start rolling into the power. A good rule of thumb IMO, depending on power and grip of course, is you should be at 100% throttle between the first and second apex. Sometimes sooner.

Corner 3 - Use third here to help get the car rotated, thus allowing you to get back to the power sooner. This will also help get the car to steer(if you have a good diff) through the middle of the corner - you should be carrying a lot more speed which means your car will naturally drive out to the exit curbing of 3. This was the most noticeable time loss in your video. *see the second video below to see the difference of 3rd vs. 4th. It was a loss of about 3-4/10ths.

Corner 4 - Looks like you can carry more speed into 4 but this is a confidence thing. Line wise, you weren't far off.

Corner 5 - Brake a little later and on the uphill part of 5A to help slow the car down. If you time it right, the car should naturally drive the outside curbing between 5A-5B where you can get a good drive out of 5B. This is debated line choice due to many reasons, but for now we will move on.

Corner 8 - line wise it seems ok, but like 1, 2 and 4, it will take more experience to build more confidence.

Corner 9 - You can wait a little longer to turn in(staying tighter on the exit of 8 helps) so you are tight on the exit which sets you up for 10. The closer left you are on the exit of 9 also means you have much less wheel into the car trying to get it back left on approach to 10. A lot of crashes happen here because if you are too far right of the exit of 9, you are forced to use much more wheel to get you back over to the left - this can make the car snap much easier, and with the bumps through 9, this can sometimes mean a meeting with the wall..

Corner 10 - line wise, not too bad. Just make sure you get 9 right so you can get to the power sooner through the middle of 10. :)

For reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHfoexS6Gw *My car with no aero in 2013*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3oqNl2fhE *My car with aero in 2014*

Hope this helps!

2TH PWR
07-08-2015, 01:22 PM
After watching the video here are some things I would suggest you try the next time at MIR.

This can be used as reference for anyone really so its not specific to Michael.

*Note: Some suggestions are for experienced drivers*

Corner 1 - Carry more speed over the crest and lightly brake down the hill and about a car length into the new asphalt strip. Once braking is done, you should be back to 100% throttle. Commitment is key here! This does require a lot of confidence, but when done right, you will pick up about a second or more by the time you reach the top of two.

Corner 2 - brake just before the crest and to the top of it and as you start the down the hill, start rolling into the power. A good rule of thumb IMO, depending on power and grip of course, is you should be at 100% throttle between the first and second apex. Sometimes sooner.

Corner 3 - Use third here to help get the car rotated, thus allowing you to get back to the power sooner. This will also help get the car to steer(if you have a good diff) through the middle of the corner - you should be carrying a lot more speed which means your car will naturally drive out to the exit curbing of 3. This was the most noticeable time loss in your video. *see the second video below to see the difference of 3rd vs. 4th. It was a loss of about 3-4/10ths.

Corner 4 - Looks like you can carry more speed into 4 but this is a confidence thing. Line wise, you weren't far off.

Corner 5 - Brake a little later and on the uphill part of 5A to help slow the car down. If you time it right, the car should naturally drive the outside curbing between 5A-5B where you can get a good drive out of 5B. This is debated line choice due to many reasons, but for now we will move on.

Corner 8 - line wise it seems ok, but like 1, 2 and 4, it will take more experience to build more confidence.

Corner 9 - You can wait a little longer to turn in(staying tighter on the exit of 8 helps) so you are tight on the exit which sets you up for 10. The closer left you are on the exit of 9 also means you have much less wheel into the car trying to get it back left on approach to 10. A lot of crashes happen here because if you are too far right of the exit of 9, you are forced to use much more wheel to get you back over to the left - this can make the car snap much easier, and with the bumps through 9, this can sometimes mean a meeting with the wall..

Corner 10 - line wise, not too bad. Just make sure you get 9 right so you can get to the power sooner through the middle of 10. :)

For reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHfoexS6Gw *My car with no aero in 2013*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f3oqNl2fhE *My car with aero in 2014*

Hope this helps!

I appreciate the input. TDs feel very slippery the first couple of laps before they come to life. This is first timed lap. I'm always cautious until timed lap 2. I go for it on lap 2 and 3 only. My apex speeds were up as much as 10 kmh two laps later.

As per turn 3 I agree. Also, power loss was so drastic I was expecting the car to track much more when I put my foot into it as well.

For reference TMP acceleration. I should be able to hang with that GTS in a straight line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJykiucNMys
in the MIR video you can hear the engine dropping. The tone is not even close.

Sorry I have to fix the overlay links from home. Don't have my regular laptop with me.

I will post more later. Infact maybe I'll make its own thread.

Dave Barker
07-08-2015, 01:29 PM
Corey, great to see your 2 videos back to back. Any other differences between the 2 years other than aero?

3wheeler
07-08-2015, 03:20 PM
Corey, great to see your 2 videos back to back. Any other differences between the 2 years other than aero?

Aero(splitter/rear wing) and switch form Rivals to RS3 v.2's. :)

I myself lost about 25# too.