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View Full Version : GT Spring breakout times - Calabogie


terrydale
08-15-2015, 06:08 PM
The Calabogie long track breakouts are: GT2 2:15, GT3 2:20, GT4 2:25, and GT5 2:30

Bill Bryan

Chief of Timing,
Ted Powell Race

MarkoPolo1
08-17-2015, 10:50 AM
Good day,

This change must be recent. What is the reason for adding 2-3 seconds to all classes? Please kindly advise

Thank you

terrydale
08-17-2015, 12:03 PM
We don't set the breakout times so I can't answer that question. Not trying to avoid it, just don't know the answer.

Will send your query on to the Race Director for his response.

While I've got you, right now there are 8 GT Sprint entries for the weekend. Sure hoping to see a flurry in the next day or two!! :)

Right now there are:
24 for GT Challenge
14 for Vintage/Historic
17 for Formula Libre
11 for F1600

MarkoPolo1
08-17-2015, 12:47 PM
Thank you very much. It would be interesting to find out what the reason is, it would interesting what Race Director may say about this.

Thank you for the reminder about registration as well. 10 cars in GT Sprints now

Best regards

shamrock
08-17-2015, 02:25 PM
These were the breakout times:

GT1 - 2:11.999 or faster
GT2 - 2:12:000 and slower
GT3 - 2:17:000 and slower
GT4 - 2:22:000 and slower
GT5 - 2:27:000 and slower
GT6 - 2:32:000 and slower

I'm not sure how this was arrived at but it should be looked at. I'm sure it will.
It is very hard to equate run times at Mosport to Calabogie though. Kinda like at Shannonville where a lot of GT4 cars can out qualify GT3 and some 2 cars.
This years times would cause a lot of cars to have to reclass themselves though.

ScotcH
08-17-2015, 02:41 PM
It is very hard to equate run times at Mosport to Calabogie though. Kinda like at Shannonville where a lot of GT4 cars can out qualify GT3 and some 2 cars.
This years times would cause a lot of cars to have to reclass themselves though.

Hey ... imagine that, brackets are not a perfect system (unless the races are only at Mosport!)

MarkoPolo1
08-17-2015, 03:08 PM
Wow, which break out times do we go by for the upcoming Calabogie weekend? I have a screen shot of a message from 11/30/2013 addressing this very question as well as the "Classification Criteria" portion of the rules in the "Brackets" paragraph. Both seem to indicate the following break out times for
Calabogie (Long/Full Track):

GT1= 2.13.999 or faster
GT2= 2.14.000 or slower
GT3= 2.17.000 or slower
GT4= 2.22.000 or slower
GT5= 2.27.000 or slower

shamrock
08-17-2015, 04:39 PM
GT3 was 217 not your 211:eek:

MarkoPolo1
08-17-2015, 09:25 PM
Thank you for noticing. Corrected.

terrydale
08-17-2015, 10:48 PM
The Calabogie long track breakouts are: GT2 2:15, GT3 2:20, GT4 2:25, and GT5 2:30
Bill Bryan, Chief of Timing, , Ted Powell Race

So, after spending a bunch of time to dig into this, here is the story.

The breakout times posted are exactly the same as was used at this Spring's May Madness Race Event at Calabogie Motorsport Park.

Of the 13 GT Sprint Entries at that event, only one broke out. On further investigation, the reason for that was found to be that the competitor used race slicks for the first time that weekend instead of his DOT spec tires that he had used for quite some time previously.

The obvious advantage took him a while to figure out - in the meantime, he broke out of his class times. No one else was at risk to breaking out.

Not trying to be difficult but the Friday Test Day has 160 minutes of closed wheel track time plus a Practice Session on Saturday morning to figure out your lap times. :)

DEK
08-17-2015, 10:56 PM
I guess no one noticed that the GT Race Regulations (Appendix Q Section F ) including the break out times were posted on the CASC Web Site March 18/2015.

Doug P
08-18-2015, 08:51 AM
I guess no one noticed that the GT Race Regulations (Appendix Q Section F ) including the break out times were posted on the CASC Web Site March 18/2015.

What were they last year?

shamrock
08-18-2015, 09:11 AM
see my post Doug.

Doug P
08-18-2015, 09:25 AM
see my post Doug.

So breakout times were changes by 3 seconds and no one noticed?

The rule book used to say something like Shannonville and calabogie breakouts were for the single event and would not bump a driver for the year. Is that gone too?

luker0
08-18-2015, 09:52 AM
I guess no one noticed that the GT Race Regulations (Appendix Q Section F ) including the break out times were posted on the CASC Web Site March 18/2015.

Did not read the breakout times as we were not running GT Sprints at May Madness. Also, be aware the there were no Long Track times for CMP in the 2014 rules and they were added as a bulletin. The assumption on the bold text for 2015 was that the times used in 2014 were now added for 2015, not that they had been changed wholesale.

MarkoPolo1
08-18-2015, 11:30 AM
So just to be sure, the Calabogie Long Track break out times for this week (including the upcoming weekend) are as stated by the Chief of Timing. Please confirm. Thanks in advance

RFoegele
08-18-2015, 11:47 AM
I guess no one noticed that the GT Race Regulations (Appendix Q Section F ) including the break out times were posted on the CASC Web Site March 18/2015.

Dave
I must take issue with your comment about no one saying anything about the new CMP breakouts. When I still attending Race Committee as Driver rep I did notice the addition of the “Calabogie long track breakouts” after R/C had approved the 2015 rule book. At that time the Race Director indicated that he would look into the discrepancy. Although I do not attend R/C meetings anymore I have it on good authority that this issue has never been resolved.

-RF

shamrock
08-18-2015, 01:36 PM
The only way to resolve it is to look at the scoring and timing from last years event, not this springs event. 44 cars ran in sprints. The top three cars that ran in GT4 ran 2:22's. and more ran under 225 also. GT3 cars regularily run under 2:20. I don't know where that 225 and 220 are coming from.

terrydale
08-18-2015, 02:53 PM
Hang on, everybody!!! :eek:

I'm working on it!!

Please give me a little bit before we get too far along, OK? :D

Thanks!

TD

DEK
08-18-2015, 05:27 PM
Richard, you KNOW that I meant no one had questioned on the Forum either before or after the May MCO event why the published breakout times were what they are.
And yes I remember that this was raised at Race Committee.
Interesting that Terry Dale says only 1 GT Sprints competitor broke out at the May race.

Doug P
08-18-2015, 07:37 PM
Richard, you KNOW that I meant no one had questioned on the Forum either before or after the May MCO event why the published breakout times were what they are.
And yes I remember that this was raised at Race Committee.
Interesting that Terry Dale says only 1 GT Sprints competitor broke out at the May race.

Three things wrong with this.

Changing breakout times by this large amount is a very big deal and nothing was mentioned at any time prior to the rulebook being published just before the season starts. Significant rule changes should be announced in a more visible manner. How had is it to post a shortlist of significant things to be aware of.

A Drivers Representative brings this up to race committee before the season starts and nothing happens.

Some drivers had already had to reclassified their car into a faster class therefore no breakout.

terrydale
08-19-2015, 01:28 PM
HOLD ON!!

CHECK OUT WHAT CAN HAPPEN WHEN YOU GIVE FOLKS A CHANCE TO LOOK INTO THINGS! ;)

PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT THE CASC/OR BULLETIN ISSUED TODAY. HERE IS THE PART YOU NEED TO KNOW:

Appendix Q, Section F

REGULATIONS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR GRAND TOURING CARS
3.1 Brackets
Change
3.1.1 d)
Calabogie Motorsport Park (Long Track)
From:
[/B]i) GT1: 2m, 14.999s or faster
ii) GT2: 2m, 15.000s and slower
iii) GT3: 2m, 20.000s and slower
iv) GT4: 2m, 25.000s and slower
v) GT5: 2m, 30.000s and slower
To
3.1.1 d)
Calabogie Motorsport Park (Long Track)
i) GT1: 2m,13.999s or faster
ii) GT2: 2m, 14.000s and slower
iii) GT3: 2m, 17.000s and slower
iv) GT4: 2m, 22.000s and slower
v) GT5: 2m, 27.000s and slower

SO, WHAT'S STOPPING YOU FROM COMING OUT AND GOING RACING THIS WEEKEND WITH EVERYBODY ELSE?

Right at this point the entry is at 135 cars.
GT Sprint = 20
F1200 = 6
VARAC Classic = 7
F1600 = 22
F Libre = 24 including 8 radicals
V/H = 20
GT Challenge = 36!!!

Tons of track time at the Friday Test Day - 160 minutes closed wheel; 160 minutes open wheel.

Methinks that if you miss this weekend, you are going to be kicking yourself all winter!!! :(

Avoid the late entry charge that kicks in tonight and register now on <motorsportreg.com> !!! :D

luker0
08-19-2015, 03:43 PM
Thanks for all the hard work Terry.

Two more sleeps till race weekend starts.

Doug P
08-19-2015, 04:21 PM
Great stuff Terry, How are you able to do this overnight when nothing happened with the questions asked in the spring?

Curious though. The times seem to have been placed back to what they were last year with the exception of GT2 which was 2:12. The brackets were 5 seconds apart but now GT2 is only 3 seconds.

What is the reasoning for that?

Wish my tranny was in.

terrydale
08-19-2015, 04:53 PM
Great stuff Terry, How are you able to do this overnight when nothing happened with the questions asked in the spring?
Curious though. The times seem to have been placed back to what they were last year with the exception of GT2 which was 2:12. The brackets were 5 seconds apart but now GT2 is only 3 seconds.
What is the reasoning for that? Wish my tranny was in.

Doug, my primary mission was to review the breakout times for this weekend based on feedback, research and reaching out.

It is going to be a matter subsequent to this weekend's results to do a final determination. However, I think with the large numbers we will have available to look at, a final call on breakout times at Calabogie Motorsports Park should be one that'll last a couple of years!!

Thanks for the feedback!!

Cya this weekend!! :)

Now, get out there and register before the Late Entry Fees kick in later tonight!! :D

MarkoPolo1
08-20-2015, 09:13 AM
Thank you very much for confirming Terry.
Best Regards,

Marek

terrydale
08-20-2015, 09:42 AM
Thank you very much for confirming Terry.
Best Regards, Marek

See you on the weekend! :)