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Grant Galloway
09-08-2015, 03:39 PM
Okay, so after seeing various accidents this year and a family friend just have a pretty severe head injury and is in hospital. It's time for a wake up call on safety.

I'm looking at a new racing seat, helmet and a HANs device.

My car is still street legal, and I want to keep it that way. The 2010 Civic has airbags in the seat, I have heard different things around replacing in that it will shut off all airbags?

Anyone know anything about this.

No roll cage in this car, but what is the best way to make it safer for me as a driver?

Thanks
Grant

Snizzoop
09-08-2015, 03:54 PM
Do you have, or will you be installing a roll BAR?

Grant Galloway
09-08-2015, 04:16 PM
No roll cage, This is the reason why I stay away from places like Mosport and Calabogie... Speeds are higher and the concrete walls!

I know that if I do a roll cage, that's it for being able to sell this car in the future. $14,000 goes to $5,000

Can I do the seat, and HAN's or do I need a roll bar for that?

I'm completely new to this stuff, so have no idea!!

Snizzoop
09-08-2015, 04:33 PM
I'm quite certain that you will need a roll bar (and harness), yes.

I'm sure others will chime in.

wparsons
09-08-2015, 04:42 PM
You can run 4 point belts with a harness bar, but I would only run belts with ASM technology so if the car does roll (highly unlikely) you're not going to get a spinal compression from the roof. The Scroth belts are good ones for that compromise.

You should be fine with a HANS with those belts, but they might not be needed because the belt will tear away allowing your torso to rotate in a crash (less chance of a basal skull fracture).

Grant Galloway
09-08-2015, 04:48 PM
Will, as much as your insight has just brightened my day... Is there somewhere you can direct me that I can get all of this stuff at a one stop shop?

Seat, Belts, Hans & Helmet if necessary... (I think my helmet is Hans ready)

Grant

13inches
09-08-2015, 05:14 PM
You may want to look into the R3 devices (instead of a Hans-type) if you don't plan on running a proper harness setup.

wparsons
09-08-2015, 06:04 PM
Will, as much as your insight has just brightened my day... Is there somewhere you can direct me that I can get all of this stuff at a one stop shop?

Seat, Belts, Hans & Helmet if necessary... (I think my helmet is Hans ready)

Grant

Unfortunately, not off the top of my head. I'm sure someone makes a bolt in harness bar for your car though. If your helmet is SA, it should have the threaded inserts needed for the HANS clip posts.

Eric might have some insight, he's pretty immersed in the honda world.

brightside
09-08-2015, 10:13 PM
Will, as much as your insight has just brightened my day... Is there somewhere you can direct me that I can get all of this stuff at a one stop shop?

Seat, Belts, Hans & Helmet if necessary... (I think my helmet is Hans ready)

Grant

I find http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk a great place for this type of stuff. Shipping is better than US and the selection cannot be beat. Don't be scared that its coming from the UK.

Only downside is a lot of the stuff you want is size dependent so maybe going local is actually a savings in getting everything the right size you need.

jimmo-san
09-09-2015, 10:31 AM
Will, as much as your insight has just brightened my day... Is there somewhere you can direct me that I can get all of this stuff at a one stop shop?

Seat, Belts, Hans & Helmet if necessary... (I think my helmet is Hans ready)

Grant

Grant, Carl Wener at Perry Auto Performance is a great guy who will take the time to help you out. They have a large selection of seats, Hans devices, harnesses, helmets.

The only downside is that Perry Auto Performance is in Laval, Quebec. But well worth the drive to Montreal.

http://www.perryautolaval.com/

Chuck Atkins
09-09-2015, 11:09 AM
Will, as much as your insight has just brightened my day... Is there somewhere you can direct me that I can get all of this stuff at a one stop shop?

Seat, Belts, Hans & Helmet if necessary... (I think my helmet is Hans ready)

Grant

Grant, try JRP in Mississauga as they are one of our sponsors, handle everything you need, and, will give you a discount.

10gt61
09-09-2015, 12:36 PM
Grant, I'm doing similar research for the same reasons!
Do lots of reading. So far I have found that 5 or 6 point harnesses are far preferable to 4 point harnesses.

Grant Galloway
09-09-2015, 02:18 PM
Thanks Kelly, my biggest concern now is safety... I am running my final track lapping day of the season tomorrow, then on to working on the car!

My Dilemma is this car is still very streetable, so do I go full out with a teardown and cage? Or do I go for something less?

I have some serious thinking to do, car is only driven to the track. So maybe I take the insurance off completely and look at trailering it! The problem is I like doing Thursday eve track days at the Bend too...

I will keep researching!!!

Please share with me your findings..

Grant

sjd
09-09-2015, 02:33 PM
I would look at a dedicated race car.

There has been a lot of talk of safety lately and the one thing I have realized following the discussion here and elsewhere over the past few years is that there will always be compromise with a street driven car. Yeah, adding a cage, harness, seat and HANS to a street car will certainly increase safety should the unthinkable happen but then as you alluded to above, what's the car worth?

Nothing. Look at at what caged cars sell for on here versus what their owner's have into then. Forget about driving on the street with a roll cage too. It isn't safe and your insurance company will have a fit if anything even happened. I wasn't willing to ruin my street car so other than the occasional lapping day I stopped taking my car to the track.

Some will argue that I shouldn't be talking about a car's value over the value of someone's life but in all honesty incidents are pretty rare and no matter what one does to improve their car from a safety standpoint, there is still a risk, albeit a calculated one.

So my 2 cents (FWIW) is to look at the cheap track only caged Honda with the aforementioned safety gear or maybe even a Formula Ford. Of course then you need a truck and trailer and the expense goes up.

xyz999
09-10-2015, 05:46 PM
Or get a a Miata :)

They are fun to drive like the Civic, cheap to maintain like the Civic, and have roll bars specifically made for them that look good too!

Slowpoke
09-10-2015, 07:59 PM
Thanks Kelly, my biggest concern now is safety... I am running my final track lapping day of the season tomorrow, then on to working on the car!

DDT lapping during the Shoot-Out day, Sept 26th! Don't take that Civic apart yet!

10gt61
09-11-2015, 12:42 PM
Also check out OTA Regulations, Section 1.0 Helmets and Head/Neck Restraints, and Section 1.1 Restraint System.
May help you in deciding what direction you want to take with your car.

LVPBMW
09-13-2015, 02:06 PM
You can run 4 point belts with a harness bar, but I would only run belts with ASM technology so if the car does roll (highly unlikely) you're not going to get a spinal compression from the roof. The Scroth belts are good ones for that compromise.

You should be fine with a HANS with those belts, but they might not be needed because the belt will tear away allowing your torso to rotate in a crash (less chance of a basal skull fracture).

I agree here. I had HANS with Schroth belts that had the ASM technology and no cage. Still not as safe as a proper cage, seat with halo and nets, but the best for me before I took the next step. I got my belts and HANS from HMS.

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/schroth-tuning-belts

And I should clarify I did this back when the dollar was stronger and on a trip for work. With the exchange now and shipping, I'd look at getting the bits from the supporting vendors here.

Chris Lawson
09-15-2015, 11:29 AM
Grant,

CSC is also a CASC sponsor........ they can answer all your questions, and they build race cars, and bars/cages. https://www.cscracing.com/

They are in Newmarket

There are some great deals out there on dedicated race cars. Not only do they afford more safety, but a tube frame car is made to race and the fatigue gremlins found in production cars are not as much of an issue. I had a C4 Vette for the track and it ate hubs like they were candy....I had one fail and snap coming out of T1, thank fully I didn't hit the wall. My current ride is fast, safe, reliable, and as race cars go, fairly inexpensive.

For your $14k you could get a $5000 tow truck, $2000 open trailer and a $4000 car, with money left over! http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=31847 There was also a Tiburon for sale a while ago for the same price point....


Chris

ScubaSteve8
09-16-2015, 12:17 AM
The 2010 Civic has airbags in the seat, I have heard different things around replacing in that it will shut off all airbags?



Grant, your air bags will not go off if the air bag light is illuminated on the instrument cluster.

nowcritical
09-17-2015, 01:55 AM
No roll cage, This is the reason why I stay away from places like Mosport and Calabogie... Speeds are higher and the concrete walls!

I know that if I do a roll cage, that's it for being able to sell this car in the future. $14,000 goes to $5,000

Can I do the seat, and HAN's or do I need a roll bar for that?

I'm completely new to this stuff, so have no idea!!

Grant,

If you are going down the path of safety is first then you need to run a roll cage or partial cage in your car. You need to anchor your 5 or 6 point harness to these items and then strap in a HANS into the belts. This setup is geared to hold you in the seat and keep you inside the car in case of a crash or a roll over. Most cars are not designed to go upside down so this is why a cage or a 1/2 cage is required to run 5 or 6 point belts.
You need to get a good helmet that is HANS compatible and has the proper rating. A full fire suite with gloves socks and shoes will make up the full outfit.


These items seem like a big investment at first, however after you walk away from an incident when everything worked and you are 100 safe and unsaved you will understand why.

My 2 C

Grant Galloway
09-28-2015, 03:19 PM
The good news I bought a new Ford F150 for a tow vehicle, so looks like the Civic will be getting some nice upgrades this winter!

We'll see if a trailered car is a faster car???

Grant

10gt61
10-15-2015, 06:08 PM
The safety issue is something that is always being looked at by organizers and groups like CASC, OTA, ASN, FIA etc.
Do your homework and consider safety upgrades carefully.
For example, my car in it's OEM condition (safety wise) saved me at CTMP when I hit the wall and rolled. The engineering built into the car; the crush zones, seat belts, air bags, structure of the car around the cabin, etc. worked as the engineers designed them to.
My feeling is that if you have a reasonably modern car, either leave it intact or go with a complete race interior (cage, seat, harness etc.).
I'm not convinced that it's a good idea to do partial mods, like just a roll bar. I believe that could affect the way the car is designed to act in a crash and it's an added very hard object inside the car that you could come into contact with if you're driving it home and don't have a helmet on. That's very likely the reason the safety engineers didn't include it in the car when it was built.

I am not an engineer or designer so this is just my opinion, but FWIW I wanted to share it with you - I care very much about the safety of our participants at OTA. If you change your car to make it safer, that is great - please just gather lots of intel on what you have planned and get it done right!