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View Full Version : Items for discussion at workshop and changes for 2016 - Input welcomed


Saj5DJ
10-19-2015, 03:02 PM
Hi folks,

Couple of things we wanted to go over this year; would love to hear everyone's input:

1. Official Pro-Solo mini series:

TLMC's events, the previous SPDA Huntsville events and the CASC celebration weekend pro solo event were all pretty damn fun by all accounts.

Having talked about it with some folks, we'd like to launch an official CASC three event Pro-Solo championship for 2016. When I say "we" I mean "you": We'll need a volunteer to head this up.

Not to be confused with Pro Series (ok, that is confusing). For those that don't know, ProSolo is when two cars run at once on mirror courses; first to the stop box wins.


2. Simplified Classing for Rookies

A suggestion came up to have our rookies enter a simpler class structure (something like Stock FWD/AWD/RWD and Modified FWD/AWD/RWD). Any thoughts on this one?

2015 rookies, would this have helped you guys out?

3. More venues

Not really something that starts and stops at the workshop by any means, but I would like to keep it front and center.

What can we all do to help further secure the venues we have and to secure new ones?

Should we perhaps look at lower cost motorsports facilities (paddocks, short track/go kart track rental possibilities etc?). In the latter case, that likely means increased entry fees. How much is too much?

Would you welcome Powerade Center being included back in a regional rotation?

4. Anything Else?

I believe (but please tell me if I'm wrong) that we are pretty solid from a competitive/ruleset standpoint. My thought is to focus thoughts on next year on venues and being more welcoming to new comers.

Ziploc
10-19-2015, 03:14 PM
Are we having a Pro series next year?

Snizzoop
10-19-2015, 03:28 PM
Are we having a Pro series next year?

I don't have the answer to this...BUT...

...looking at the results, all that happened was the top three overall finishers ended up with another trophy. I'm not sure anything was "achieved" by having the Pro Series. That being said, I'm not sure if there was a specific goal for it...other than being interesting/cool.

Now, don't read this as a vote against it. I love the idea and format. I just wish that the outcome was a little different, and who knows, maybe it would have been had I participated. :p

Saj5DJ
10-19-2015, 04:42 PM
I don't have the answer to this...BUT...

...looking at the results, all that happened was the top three overall finishers ended up with another trophy. I'm not sure anything was "achieved" by having the Pro Series. That being said, I'm not sure if there was a specific goal for it...other than being interesting/cool.

Now, don't read this as a vote against it. I love the idea and format. I just wish that the outcome was a little different, and who knows, maybe it would have been had I participated. :p

I think it achieves what we want from it, which is to add an additional competitive element to the day for those that want it.

I doubt we'll get as generous a prize fund as Perry Performance supplied this year going forwards, but even a chase fro that additional trophy is fun and costs us nothing.

Being interesting/cool is good enough for me :) We'll include it for 2016

Edit: And as we say back in Belfast Arris: "Aye, and if me granny had balls she'd be my granda!" :p

Saj5DJ
10-19-2015, 04:47 PM
Oh and something else:

I think it'd be nice to have some sort of award for the person with the most raw wins of the season. Probably a plaque or something other than a trophy maybe?

redneckdzl
10-19-2015, 05:24 PM
Maybe a ladies trophy aswell? Would be nice to see more ladies out enjoying the sport

ProSolo is awesome, Mosport being one venue, Picton being the other, what would be the third?

The Pro Series, (not confusing) was intended so only the your first three runs would count, i think i feel apart and was hoping that others would mess up equally, it just means ya gotta be in the zone, i think it still has a place, somewhat limited though based on having the requirement of having a previous win to be able to compete

sjd
10-19-2015, 05:55 PM
ProSolo is awesome, Mosport being one venue, Picton being the other, what would be the third?


I would imagine Barry was thinking about TLMC, which I am sure we would be open to. :)

rustysteel
10-19-2015, 09:54 PM
How about a vintage class, perhaps vehicles over 25 years old? I really enjoy running the Mustang but it's hard running against all these 'new' vehicles.

Although Barry did mention he likes squeaky 27 year olds, I don't believe he was referring to my Mustang :rolleyes:

I've been wanting to do a 'Night-cross' or late evening into the night autocross with PMSC but haven't been able to coordinate anything. Might be fun.

Now back to my search for a Alta rear sway bar for the MINI...

darcyw
10-19-2015, 11:18 PM
1. Official Pro-Solo mini series:

Not to be confused with Pro Series (ok, that is confusing). For those that don't know, ProSolo is when two cars run at once on mirror courses; first to the stop box wins.


Would this take place on a separate schedule to be run as a double header- ie. prosolo one day, Autoslalom the next?


Will this be classified as autoslalom is already? Otherwise, its just a "big man on campus" competition. An HStock car has little chance of winning- and while its fun- Picton's event 5 years ago was my first and only- the power cars will win. I like the strategy involved and the need to be consistent and keep the red mist from descending.

What about classing cars into the same autoslalom classes that currently exist- ST cars against ST cars for eg.?



2. Simplified Classing for Rookies

A suggestion came up to have our rookies enter a simpler class structure (something like Stock FWD/AWD/RWD and Modified FWD/AWD/RWD). Any thoughts on this one?


While I'm not a rookie, this is NOT needed. If you have good grasp of the English language, READ THE RULE BOOK. What other racing series have a rookie classification system? If you are entering the provincial series, there is very good chance a competitor has already competed in a local series and has a good grasp of the situation.

My suggestion is people expressing interest in autoslalom (like at the slalom school or on this forum for eg.) should be directed to the autoslalom rookie liaison to help them interpret the rules and offer encouragement and advice.


3. More venues

Not really something that starts and stops at the workshop by any means, but I would like to keep it front and center.
What can we all do to help further secure the venues we have and to secure new ones?


As an active member of WOSCA, I can speak to this. Securing and establishing a long term relationship with a venue is a monumental undertaking. Kevin, our autoslalom director, is currently working on securing a local to Sarnia, large, provincial ready lot. This is looking very promising. Some of you may remember this venue and the owner is more amenable to us returning. Let's cross our fingers.

Would you welcome Powerade Center being included back in a regional rotation?

I'm mixed on this one- if we're lean on event locations, then yes. Otherwise, mmm, maybe not.
I'll go one further- should there be a cap on events to prevent burn out of provincial organizers?

Entry fees to run the provincial series are just under $400. Since my entry fees/maintenance/fuel/tires are paid by my sponsor, Sarnia Family Optometry, I'm ok with an increase of 20-25% to secure locations that are more consistent eg. DDT.


4. Anything Else?

My thought is to focus thoughts on next year on venues and being more welcoming to new comers.


Agreed. When I do a rookie course walk, or work the entry tent, I try to thank new comers/rookies for coming out to our event. It doesn't take much to make a nervous and unsure new competitor to feel welcome and at ease. (And then crush their dreams after the first run). But the really sick ones come out for more.

darcy

Saj5DJ
10-20-2015, 12:02 AM
How about a vintage class, perhaps vehicles over 25 years old? I really enjoy running the Mustang but it's hard running against all these 'new' vehicles.


Like this?
http://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/files/asbulletin3-15-vintagecarallowances.pdf

:)

Input on that one is welcome too of course.

Lynam55
10-20-2015, 01:51 PM
I am game for the prosolo series if we use a pax modifier to off set the starts. I know this makes it much more difficult to run and organize but will help with more people showing up.(heard lots of talk about it this season). It will help all the guys in street class. Could allways just line up the +ST prepared cars back a car length? Not sure if that would help?

Have any go cart tracks in mind? Would love to race around one.
Any chance we can bring back the mosport DDT event or is this to expensive now? Love that track!

Just thinking out loud here.

Lynam55
10-20-2015, 01:57 PM
Darcy had a good idea for the prosolo by breaking it up into 3 groups.

rustysteel
10-20-2015, 02:01 PM
Like this?
http://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/files/asbulletin3-15-vintagecarallowances.pdf

:)

Input on that one is welcome too of course.

I knew I had read that somewhere, thanks Barry. How about a change so that anything 25 years or older can run this class. Bringing back the 80's Yo!

Saj5DJ
10-20-2015, 02:07 PM
I knew I had read that somewhere, thanks Barry. How about a change so that anything 25 years or older can run this class. Bringing back the 80's Yo!

Problem then is that you open it up to some genuinely quick hardware. Think of a Porsche 944 in ES with those allowances, as one example.

Saj5DJ
10-20-2015, 02:13 PM
I would imagine Barry was thinking about TLMC, which I am sure we would be open to. :)

Bingo

Snizzoop
10-20-2015, 04:44 PM
Would this take place on a separate schedule to be run as a double header- ie. prosolo one day, Autoslalom the next?

I would imagine that would be the best way to start out. I think you would achieve the highest attendance that way.

I am game for the prosolo series if we use a pax modifier to off set the starts. I know this makes it much more difficult to run and organize but will help with more people showing up.(heard lots of talk about it this season). It will help all the guys in street class. Could allways just line up the +ST prepared cars back a car length? Not sure if that would help?

Staggered starts would be the ideal solution. When we (TLMC) built our ProSolo rig, we didn't have this capability built in. I'm not even sure we can add it. Even if we did, it would require someone entering the offset for each pairing of cars...which wouldn't be that onerous I suppose, since you don't need a timer per se.

Will this be classified as autoslalom is already? Otherwise, its just a "big man on campus" competition. An HStock car has little chance of winning- and while its fun- Picton's event 5 years ago was my first and only- the power cars will win. I like the strategy involved and the need to be consistent and keep the red mist from descending.

What about classing cars into the same autoslalom classes that currently exist- ST cars against ST cars for eg.?

Even if you have ST vs ST, you're still gonna end up with "power cars" winning. I'm pretty sure there aren't too many STS/STF cars that would put up much fight against an STU/STR car. That being said, it's probably the best/easiest solution aside from doing staggered starts. I suppose you could also do the groupings by PAX factor...maybe.



Now, about ProSolo equipment...is the region going to buy a proper ProSolo rig, or are we doing arm drops...or...what(;))? Regardless of what we choose, I think it should be the same for all events. Personally, I don't think a ProSolo is a ProSolo unless there's a tree and staging lights. That being said, the TLMC rig isn't perfect. We seem to have issues with splitters and air dams tripping the beams...and I'm not sure how to get around that.

sjd
10-20-2015, 10:31 PM
3. More venues

Not really something that starts and stops at the workshop by any means, but I would like to keep it front and center.

What can we all do to help further secure the venues we have and to secure new ones?

Should we perhaps look at lower cost motorsports facilities (paddocks, short track/go kart track rental possibilities etc?). In the latter case, that likely means increased entry fees. How much is too much?

Would you welcome Powerade Center being included back in a regional rotation?




I'm mixed on this one- if we're lean on event locations, then yes. Otherwise, mmm, maybe not.
I'll go one further- should there be a cap on events to prevent burn out of provincial organizers?

Entry fees to run the provincial series are just under $400. Since my entry fees/maintenance/fuel/tires are paid by my sponsor, Sarnia Family Optometry, I'm ok with an increase of 20-25% to secure locations that are more consistent eg. DDT.


I know its unpopular but I still wasn't thrilled with 4 events at Picton this year so I would certainly welcome additional venues. I would have liked one less TLMC event as well since roughly 90% (Serge would know the exact percentage) of the series was at 2 venues.

Not regretting TLMC, PMSC or St. Lac hosting those extra events as I did attend all of them and enjoyed myself, just stating my opinion that I would love a 6-7 venue series again.

Obviously I am fine with the Powerade Centre but I do drive an MX-5. I like the idea of a CTMP lower paddock event too. If the schedule was planned strategically so that the smaller venues were at the end of the year when attendance is down that could prevent 100 people from showing up at the Powerade Centre.

As for cost, I don't want to pay $100 an event to run at the DDT or another track. Never mind the issue of Miatas/other convertibles without roll bars. I won't dismiss it though until I hear what's being proposed.

Maybe a ladies trophy aswell? Would be nice to see more ladies out enjoying the sport


I don't agree with this. Not just your suggestion Travis but I don't agree with it at the SCCA National level either. :)


4. Anything Else?

I believe (but please tell me if I'm wrong) that we are pretty solid from a competitive/ruleset standpoint. My thought is to focus thoughts on next year on venues and being more welcoming to new comers.

I agree Barry, things in the series have been very solid the past couple of years and this year was no exception. Well done!

Now onto my suggestions...

:p

The thing that I would like to add is that there needs to be better communication about the event's supplemental regulations. Information was posted late and sometimes stuff was posted on the Facebook group and not here for example. The other issue is that the information on MSReg was quite often generic and differed from what the actual event organizers posted. The entry fee price at one of the last events for that matter.

Continuing with that theme, I know some clubs have more volunteers than others and that sometimes it's a daunting task to get everything together.
So there should be a way that if clubs need organization assistance or just set up assistance the day of, there should be a way that they can reach out. Even if its done through Barry there needs to be a way of putting the clubs who do need some additional assistance in touch with those willing to help.

Lynam55
10-20-2015, 10:36 PM
For prosolo couldn't we just time both sides at the same time? Well they both raced. Then use pax modifier to see which side was faster? It would still feel like a "drag race" but be fair for everyone? :confused:

yangsui
10-21-2015, 12:33 AM
If we are to have a pro-solo mini-series, I vote we keep it simple for everyone. Both sides see green at the same time, first back across the line wins. No extra work for timers, no pax, no staggered start, JUST RACE.

It's a separate series with no effect on the regular championship. Keep classes and PAX in the regular series where it belongs. Pro-solo is supposed to be fun. By very nature of the format, competitors will end up running against evenly matched opponents anyway. Why mess with it with PAX and classes. Let's also not forget that we do this because we all love cars, especially fast cars. There are those that go the extra mile to build raw time FTD monsters. Let's reward those raw time wins. I don't think we're doing that enough in the regular series. Of course, this does not apply to Aversa (who is magic) but I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say.

Lynam55
10-21-2015, 01:41 AM
Yang could I steal your car then. :D

Snizzoop
10-21-2015, 10:50 AM
For prosolo couldn't we just time both sides at the same time? Well they both raced. Then use pax modifier to see which side was faster? It would still feel like a "drag race" but be fair for everyone? :confused:

I can picture it now...Kwok vs Aversa...
...Kwok gets the jump on Aversa off the line, but the AWD beast makes up the gap in the blink of an eye! Into the first turn, Aversa already has a healthy lead...and it's just getting bigger! The Subaru crosses the line...fist pumps are flying! The Miata crosses the line seconds later. After the timers input the run times, and the computer spits out the results...KWOK WINS! THE CROWD GOES WILD!

Wait...what?

sjd
10-21-2015, 11:14 AM
lol.

I agree with Yang and Arris. ProSolo is about the fastest driver/car period.

Lynam55
10-21-2015, 11:54 AM
Easy for you guys to say with your big wide wheels and fancy coilovers. :p

Daniel
10-21-2015, 12:24 PM
Easy for you guys to say with your big wide wheels and fancy coilovers. :p

Challenge for you, Jamie! At the next prosolo event, you can drive the M3 with the "big wide wheels and fancy coilovers", and I'll drive your Miata. You in? :D

Sorry, getting way off topic! :)

Saj5DJ
10-21-2015, 01:23 PM
Ultimately It's a new thing, so it's whatever you guys want it to be.

FYI, there is a way they do it with PAX accounted for in big US ProSolo events. Not avle to look it up handily right now, maybe one of our travelling competitors can comment?

Not saying we have to copy, but it's probably the only realistic option other that keep it raw (which is fine too).

Saj5DJ
10-21-2015, 01:25 PM
And PS: Don't gloss over that we need someone to head this up or it can't happen.

Sorry guys, but I can't take it on. Strecthed pretty thin between very busy work schedule and an 18 month old.

Lynam55
10-21-2015, 03:01 PM
Challenge for you, Jamie! At the next prosolo event, you can drive the M3 with the "big wide wheels and fancy coilovers", and I'll drive your Miata. You in? :D

Sorry, getting way off topic! :)

Challenge Excepted! OMG I can't wait for the day! :D :cool: So cool bro!
Just don't fall in love!....

So when you going car shopping for a Miata? ;) lmao

sjd
10-21-2015, 06:13 PM
So when you going car shopping for a Miata? ;) lmao

He's buying mine.

darcyw
10-21-2015, 10:06 PM
He's buying mine.

is the ND that much better? I know its got a roomy interior, improved interior build quality, spindly rear roll bar, snicky shifter, but not a loud enough paint scheme.

darcy

sjd
10-22-2015, 01:00 AM
is the ND that much better? I know its got a roomy interior, improved interior build quality, spindly rear roll bar, snicky shifter, but not a loud enough paint scheme.

darcy

My car isn't going anywhere. I'm sure I freaked some people out with the thought of Daniel in my car for the entire season though. :p

I emjoyed the ND when I had a chance to run 5 autox laps in one. Its not as fast as my car power-wise but I immediately felt how much lighter it was. The shifter is great but the steering and brakes were not as good as my car.

mikewolf
10-22-2015, 02:02 PM
IMHO the way to handle prosolo is to group people into 4-5 classes. Do it based off their class and just group them by similar pax values. Then have competition within classes. Once you have winners for each class, use class dial ins to stagger the starts to determine an overall winner.

buurin
10-22-2015, 02:18 PM
I know its unpopular but I still wasn't thrilled with 4 events at Picton this year so I would certainly welcome additional venues. I would have liked one less TLMC event as well since roughly 90% (Serge would know the exact percentage) of the series was at 2 venues.

Of the 8 provincials, we had 4 at Picton, 3 at Barrie, 1 at Durham College, that makes 87.5% at two venues. I would definitely want Powerade back - it's only half an hour away from my home! :D

Now of other topics...

At the level of current ladies participation, there would only be one trophy anyway, which may eventually get lumped under the "honourable mention" category.

I have always wondered why club affiliation isn't identified like other divisions. Maybe this has always been more a competition of individuals than clubs, which I'm completely fine with. We at TAC are having a hard time finding out who else from our club is running in autoslalom, except for me who self-identified. Barry, Rob M or Dietmar (our prez and competition director) may reach out to you for this, while my niche at the club should be safe. :P

I was also thinking about a variation of the pro-solo that sees two drivers race in similar, event-provided cars (think two slushbox 4-door Corollas :D) that takes the car out of the equation, and it turns out the region did something similar in the past. Would there be interest in this variation?

Anything we can or should do to showcase/promote alternative energy vehicles? We've seen Tesla Roadster and a moving lump of coal (LOL!) run in the regionals, and there is an EV charging station at the OMSC venue (not sure about cost).

buurin
10-22-2015, 02:24 PM
If you are entering the provincial series, there is very good chance a competitor has already competed in a local series and has a good grasp of the situation.
If someone has already competed in a local series and just moving to regional, they are by definition no longer a rookie.

I started autoslalom with the regional, starting from nothing. There are going to be others like me, so we still have to be prepared to look after the rookies, but I also agree separate rookie classing is not necessary.

TOYSRUS
10-22-2015, 04:20 PM
If we are to have a pro-solo mini-series, I vote we keep it simple for everyone. Both sides see green at the same time, first back across the line wins. No extra work for timers, no pax, no staggered start, JUST RACE.
Let's also not forget that we do this because we all love cars, especially fast cars. There are those that go the extra mile to build raw time FTD monsters. Let's reward those raw time wins. I don't think we're doing that enough in the regular series. Of course, this does not apply to Aversa (who is magic) but I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say.

Can I get an AMEN!?

max attack
10-22-2015, 04:49 PM
Amen just for you my brother

darcyw
10-22-2015, 11:12 PM
and there is an EV charging station at the OMSC venue (not sure about cost).

no charge. you put your credit card in, but they don't charge you. They are doing that to track usage, not to charge for the service.
Own an Plug in hybrid or electric car? there are many free charging/parking spots throughout the GTA. I get this info from my aunt and uncle in Whitby who drive a volt.

darcy

CRXSpeed
10-24-2015, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjd View Post
I know its unpopular but I still wasn't thrilled with 4 events at Picton this year so I would certainly welcome additional venues. I would have liked one less TLMC event as well since roughly 90% (Serge would know the exact percentage) of the series was at 2 venues.
Of the 8 provincials, we had 4 at Picton, 3 at Barrie, 1 at Durham College, that makes 87.5% at two venues. I would definitely want Powerade back - it's only half an hour away from my home!

Easy people. No club in the region gave up on trying to get venues. The alternative to 4 events at Picton and 3 at Barrie would have been a lot less events, period. We have to work hard just to secure venues for club events let alone regionals. WOSCA lost their venue this year. Picton was paved in 1942 (73 year old pavement), and not likely to ever be re-paved. Its definitely not going to last as a venue.
Securing venues should be a priority. Any ideas on this issue ???

Saj5DJ
11-01-2015, 09:31 AM
For workshop items then, seems really nothing to discuss for regular season ruleset issues? Please correct me if that's not the consensus.

Venue securing seems to be the highest priority. We can certainly discuss Saturday, but that's going to be an ongoing thing, I'll open a new thread for that.

Pro-Solo, we can discuss how it's going to look. We still need a volunteer to run it.


Anything else anyone wants discussed? Speak now so we can get input on your wants and needs. April's no good!