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Time Attack Director
05-09-2016, 12:40 PM
Just wanted to thank Sean for coming out to the event. He should be our poster child... err young man for our sport!

Another reason to promote OTA!

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/gerrcar/Exp_May_4_2016_Pg_01_zpszueqjs8z.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/gerrcar/Exp_May_4_2016_Pg_17%201_zpsdxtkfag3.jpg

ONdriver
05-09-2016, 07:43 PM
Also online, congrats guys!
http://oshawaexpress.ca/stick-to-the-track/

Stephen
05-09-2016, 08:31 PM
Keep up the good work guys.

DavidSim
05-10-2016, 10:32 AM
>>Keep up the good work guys<<

Ditto

Mhussain
05-11-2016, 07:21 PM
That's just amazing! Well done and thank you Sean and Gerry.
We should all be advocates for safe driving in the communities we live in, and reach out to them through schools and colleges.
Perhaps there are other ways we can do this. I'm sure all of us at CASC and OTA will support such informative and safety promoting activities.

ONdriver
05-12-2016, 10:23 AM
Not the first year OTA has done this:
http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=31537
Need to continue it going forward

Slowpoke
05-26-2016, 06:21 PM
Here continues the good work of Project ERASE. After promoting the program at Mosport race track, they pull the plates of a guy on the way to the track. They don't mention any speeding or driving infractions; you know they would have if they happened.

http://www.durhamregion.com/news-story/6692427-markham-man-charged-for-driving-modified-porsche-with-no-muffler-on-winchester-road-in-oshawa/

I'm not in favour of no mufflers, but I wonder if the officers involved in ERASE get the point.

Grant Galloway
05-26-2016, 07:49 PM
I'm guessing he didn't have the proper emmissions control system installed on the car! Regardless I seen police parked outside all kinds of tracks I have been too.. I have never been stopped, however I am completely legal for the street!

They should be going after the real criminals like the Wynne government who seem to be getting away with all kinds of fraud against tax payers.

Grant

Slowpoke
05-26-2016, 09:01 PM
This was an emissions issue. NO street racing involved. There was no reason to tie it to ERASE at all. The only thing mentioning Mosport and tying it to ERASE does is warn young racers taking it to the track to stay away from the track.

10gt61
05-27-2016, 11:40 AM
The only thing mentioning Mosport and tying it to ERASE does is warn young racers taking it to the track to stay away from the track.

OR - It's a timely reminder to all drivers that there are rules that need to be followed when on the street. Or deal with the consequences.
I have two modified cars that would pass HTA & emissions tests. It's not rocket science.
At one time or another we've probably all taken that chance that we won't get caught knowing we're outside of those rules. If you get caught man up. If you want to dance you've got to pay the piper!

Saj5DJ
05-27-2016, 11:56 AM
It also sends the message to those who have such mods on their car that they're better off doing arm drops on an empty road than going to a staked out track. Which I think we can agree goes against everything we stand for.

This is like drug dogs at the entrance to an addiction counseling meeting.

wparsons
05-27-2016, 12:34 PM
OR - It's a timely reminder to all drivers that there are rules that need to be followed when on the street. Or deal with the consequences.
I have two modified cars that would pass HTA & emissions tests. It's not rocket science.
At one time or another we've probably all taken that chance that we won't get caught knowing we're outside of those rules. If you get caught man up. If you want to dance you've got to pay the piper!

That's not always the case Kelly... I know a few people who have been stopped, had plates pulled and then had the car fully checked out by shops that found it to be 100% legal, then had to fight to get the original charges dropped because there was nothing wrong with the car originally.

There's also a better way to handle the launch of a program like this, like give the drivers a week to get the issue fixed before yanking plates and giving thousands in fines.

Is a catless car legal, no, but does yanking plates of cars and promoting it along with ERASE send the message that taking it to the track is a good idea, also no. They need to be working WITH enthusiasts, not AGAINST with a giant gavel. A loud, catless, car is WAY safer than a rusty old car with balljoints hanging on by a thread.

Improper mufflers are purely the officer's discretion, and I know people with 100% stock cars that have been given those tickets.

It also sends the message to those who have such mods on their car that they're better off doing arm drops on an empty road than going to a staked out track. Which I think we can agree goes against everything we stand for.

This is like drug dogs at the entrance to an addiction counseling meeting.

Couldn't agree more!

Saj5DJ
05-27-2016, 12:51 PM
A fix it ticket sounds reasonable.

Plate pulling and environment on site is just headline grabbing.

Time Attack Director
05-27-2016, 02:25 PM
To my fellow director in autocross, (and fellow miata owner)

Please review this map, it will show you where the incident happened and where CTMP is.

I know everyone thinks i live in the boonies but Durham is a big area.

Now where shall we place the dogs? 29 minutes away, 10 minutes away or at the gate?

Really people, I understand some of you trying to use forums as a "soapbox", but really is this what you want the cops to see what our organization stands for?

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Winchester+Rd+W,+Whitby,+ON/Canadian+Tire+Motorsport+Park,+Concession+Road+10,+Bowmanville,+ON/@44.0006531,-79.1144712,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d518cc3d692705:0xe2303ef5a28c68!2m2!1d-78.9901838!2d43.9465002!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d509f2dbd683ef:0x5d4e74a0e765883e!2m2!1d-78.6812281!2d44.053566

wparsons
05-27-2016, 02:54 PM
Winchester is a favorite road to CTMP because it has one of the, if not the, closest gas stations with 94 octane (Winchester and Thickson). There is always a ton of traffic through Brooklin on the way to/from CTMP.

The location wasn't a coincidence at all.

As for what the organization stands for... no one is suggesting illegal cars should be on the road, just that how this was handled in conjunction with the "take it to the track" messaging they're promoting is completely contradictory in practice.

10gt61
05-27-2016, 04:20 PM
just that how this was handled in conjunction with the "take it to the track" messaging they're promoting is completely contradictory in practice.

Will, with respect, I have to disagree. I know some of the people involved in the ERASE program from the racing community and the policing community. I can assure you they both are completely sold on the "take it to the track" theme. But - they also both believe that while on the street, the provincial and municipal laws apply. It's not a contradiction, it's an understanding. Bottom line is ERASE is an effort to reduce accidents and save lives. That's really the message. If there's a spot check once in a while and people get nailed, so be it. I happen to believe that is rare. I have never seen it in my own experience in years of driving to numerous tracks - not even once. That's not to say it hasn't and doesn't happen of course. And nobody likes getting a ticket. That doesn't mean those from all sides who are invested in this program don't want to see it be successful though.

wparsons
05-27-2016, 05:22 PM
Will, with respect, I have to disagree. I know some of the people involved in the ERASE program from the racing community and the policing community. I can assure you they both are completely sold on the "take it to the track" theme. But - they also both believe that while on the street, the provincial and municipal laws apply. It's not a contradiction, it's an understanding. Bottom line is ERASE is an effort to reduce accidents and save lives. That's really the message. If there's a spot check once in a while and people get nailed, so be it. I happen to believe that is rare. I have never seen it in my own experience in years of driving to numerous tracks - not even once. That's not to say it hasn't and doesn't happen of course. And nobody likes getting a ticket. That doesn't mean those from all sides who are invested in this program don't want to see it be successful though.

I'm not disagreeing on the need to have legal cars, I'm disagreeing on their approach and how it appears to enthusiasts.

If they stop me and pull my plates for something small (like a vented catch can, etc) it feels to me like they're working against and discouraging enthusiasts.

Now if they were to stop me for the exact same thing and give me a week to get it fixed up before pulling my plates it would feel like they're educating and trying to work with enthusiasts.

As for frequency, it happens ALL the time at TMP, and has been for over a decade. Pretty much any big event there will have local police, MTO and MOE camped out looking for anything modified. It's new to the Durham area, but not the province.

Dave Barker
05-28-2016, 08:56 AM
The problem with setting up inspection type road blocks outside a race track after suggesting people use that same race track is that it appears like entrapment. Surely there are other places where such "inspections" could take place. I know of a number of places that have routine ad hoc car shows and likely some pretty illegal cars but have never heard of any sting operations there.

I am with Will on this one. It would send the same message with much less resentment if the owner was given a week to fix the problem. There are likely a few cars that are truly unsafe but to be taken off the road for questionable emissions equipment makes no sense.If I take my car in for a routine emissions test to renew my plates and it fails, I am given time to fix it.

Hauling plates,towing and storage fees can be pretty stiff penalties. This is not reckless driving or even the dreaded "stunt" driving so let the punishment fit the crime

10gt61
05-28-2016, 12:24 PM
Hauling plates,towing and storage fees can be pretty stiff penalties.

Ya that seems a bit harsh, must admit. Maybe more to the story....

TFB
05-28-2016, 09:37 PM
There's also a better way to handle the launch of a program like this, like give the drivers a week to get the issue fixed before yanking plates and giving thousands in fines.

That's appropriate for things where the lapse may be unintentional or minor.

Removing mufflers, emissions controls, catalytic converters etc off a relatively new vehicle is definitely intentional, and multiple intentional violations of that sort makes it fair game to pull the plates and issue the corresponding tickets.

TFB
05-28-2016, 09:40 PM
If I take my car in for a routine emissions test to renew my plates and it fails, I am given time to fix it.

There is a big difference between test failure due to mechanical issue, and test failure due to deliberately-removed emissions equipment. One "happens", while the other is illegal.

Kuruma
05-29-2016, 11:48 PM
I can confirm that the 911 GT3 in question had no catalysts. They were removed.

wparsons
05-30-2016, 11:25 AM
There is a big difference between test failure due to mechanical issue, and test failure due to deliberately-removed emissions equipment. One "happens", while the other is illegal.

There isn't though... if I take a car for an e-test and it fails because I'm running a catless header, I'm given the same opportunity to fix it as if it fails for a bad sensor, etc. They don't pull the plates off the car with no cats on the spot at the test center.

I'm not arguing that people should be allowed to run without cats on the street by any stretch.

All I'm arguing is if the message is "we want to work with enthusiasts", then throwing the book to make an example of one is contradictory. At the same time, I wouldn't suggest being let off totally free. Just a grace period to get it fixed (even 72 hours!) before facing big fines.

Grant Galloway
05-30-2016, 11:57 AM
If the car had no Cats I don't feel sorry for the guy! The problem is it makes the rest of us look bad..

If you want to run catless, then put the car on a trailer and buy a tow vehicle. If you have a new Porsche. Pretty sure you can afford a trailer and a pickup truck!

Grant

TFB
05-30-2016, 12:00 PM
There isn't though... if I take a car for an e-test and it fails because I'm running a catless header, I'm given the same opportunity to fix it as if it fails for a bad sensor, etc. They don't pull the plates off the car with no cats on the spot at the test center.

I'm not arguing that people should be allowed to run without cats on the street by any stretch.

All I'm arguing is if the message is "we want to work with enthusiasts", then throwing the book to make an example of one is contradictory. At the same time, I wouldn't suggest being let off totally free. Just a grace period to get it fixed (even 72 hours!) before facing big fines.

"They" in this case are not the police, but a private garage, and "they" are inspecting a vehicle on private property, not out on a highway. "They" have no sworn duty to uphold the provinces laws.

As far as police and the roadside check goes, had the issue been cats that were still in place but not working correctly, then the driver would probably have been given that bit of grace to get it fixed. But this driver deliberately removed them.

That falls into a different realm of malfeasance and one that has to be treated just as harshly as an enthusiast who dumps his used engine fluids into the ditch on the way home. Just because he was 30 minutes away from a race track should not give him or anyone else claiming to be an enthusiast the least bit of immunity from the consequences.

h-bomb
05-31-2016, 10:12 AM
Holy crap TFB is back!

Silvia_Drift
05-31-2016, 10:47 AM
Let's be honest. The primary function of the police is to collect revenue for the city. Programs like ERASE and others like it are just to give the public the general impression that the government cares about public safety and well being. The reality is that they do not.

Cops setting up stings near racetracks or car enthusiast events is nothing new. The majority of people just pay their tickets anyways so it doesn't really matter if the ticket is justified.

If you have a modified or sporty car, it doesn't matter if you drive like a normal law abiding citizen on the streets and only drive hard at the track. Always be prepared that you are likely to be hit up by the police when they need to make their quotas.

shanehutton
05-31-2016, 01:21 PM
Or just make sure that your car is legal for road use. Problem solved.

Silvia_Drift
05-31-2016, 02:05 PM
Or just make sure that your car is legal for road use. Problem solved.

How naive.

27/WOSCA
05-31-2016, 04:42 PM
[QUOTE=Silvia_Drift;255735]Let's be honest. The primary function of the police is to collect revenue for the city. Programs like ERASE and others like it are just to give the public the general impression that the government cares about public safety and well being. The reality is that they do not. QUOTE]

Whoa. What?!