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Doug P
09-19-2016, 10:26 AM
I cant seem to find anything mentioned in the rulebook. It was my understanding that if you had an issue in the warm up and pulled over it was not allowed to restart and pass cars to return to your starting spot. It seems to me to be an unsafe move and should be treated like a yellow pass.

I would not be looking for someone to pass me and would be seriously pissed to be wrecked when someone was doing so.

Does anyone know if its mentioned anywhere? Or is the warm up lap under yellow therefore no further specification required?

ScotcH
09-19-2016, 11:28 AM
That would be my understanding as well. Unless specifically pointed by a car in front, I would never try to pass on the warmup lap.

DEK
09-19-2016, 11:46 AM
2.3.3 ROLLING START a) Cars shall be held briefly on the Racetrack until ordered by the starter to begin the pace lap. Races shall begin with one pace lap. A pace car may be used to control the field. b) On the pace lap the Car in pole position shall maintain a steady pace until the start flag is shown. Cars shall not move from their prescribed starting position, immediately behind the Car in front, before the start flag is shown. After the pace lap is underway, any vacant grid positions shall remain vacant. c) There shall be no overtaking during pace laps

Specifically #3 above

Doug P
09-19-2016, 06:42 PM
2.3.3 ROLLING START a) Cars shall be held briefly on the Racetrack until ordered by the starter to begin the pace lap. Races shall begin with one pace lap. A pace car may be used to control the field. b) On the pace lap the Car in pole position shall maintain a steady pace until the start flag is shown. Cars shall not move from their prescribed starting position, immediately behind the Car in front, before the start flag is shown. After the pace lap is underway, any vacant grid positions shall remain vacant. c) There shall be no overtaking during pace laps

Specifically #3 above

Thanks for the pointer Dave. I was having a quick look under penalties and flags.

Also see specifically g) Cars, which fall out of position on the pace lap, shall relinquish their position and shall join the Competition at the rear of the field.

Should that be considered a pass under yellow? what about passing 8 cars to get back into position? 8 penalties?

DEK
09-20-2016, 01:16 PM
Doug, I know from past experience that if you lose your position on the "pace lap"
for whatever reason, and you regain your position, the Stewards may (probably will)
consider this a pass under yellow. Been there done that. OOOPPPSSS.

RE multiple penalties for passing multiple cars, that I would suspect would be up to the
Stewards. Note, the Stewards have discretion to issue MORE than the minimum
penalty.

DEK
09-20-2016, 01:25 PM
Doug, I think I forgot to reply to one of you questions. Passing a car that is broken or is pulling off or has pulled off, does not usually result in a penalty but the driver that did the pas MAY have to explain them self.

Doug P
09-20-2016, 01:46 PM
Wanted to clarify it as people should be aware. It seems there were no penalties in that race at all. Many people passed under yellow, myself included when racing the Camry hard I passed the Subaru before seeing flags in 2.

KathyK
09-20-2016, 05:25 PM
That car in 2 pulled off on the warmup lap. Single steady at 2 for the first lap with such a huge tight field made it virtually impossible to call the passes under yellow. It did make you all aware that there was something off track, in a pretty safe spot, though. Good race guys.

Shark
09-20-2016, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the clarification...
Glad you enjoyed the race.:D

Doug P
09-20-2016, 06:11 PM
That car in 2 pulled off on the warmup lap. Single steady at 2 for the first lap with such a huge tight field made it virtually impossible to call the passes under yellow. It did make you all aware that there was something off track, in a pretty safe spot, though. Good race guys.

I think there were more when the track went full course yellow.

KathyK
09-20-2016, 06:16 PM
Maybe yes but not in C2. I see nothing....;)

Mike H
09-21-2016, 01:08 PM
There were probably some more passes under yellow when one of the cars in the front of the pack suddenly slowed to a crawl near the start of the back straight, but looking for passes was not a priority for us at 5C as we were trying to prevent what happened by waving yellow and waving white. Unfortunately some cars still hit the wall.

As an aside, if I'm going to call in a "pass under yellow" I want to be 100% sure that I get it right. If I'm not sure I don't call it in.

Shark
09-21-2016, 01:16 PM
Thanks for all the info. It makes more sense to me now. We drivers still have to pay attention more but I know that when it's a very tight pack, it's hard for the marshals to figure it all out.

Thanks Mike

Doug P
09-21-2016, 02:58 PM
Thanks for all the info. It makes more sense to me now. We drivers still have to pay attention more but I know that when it's a very tight pack, it's hard for the marshals to figure it all out.

Thanks Mike

Agreed, tight pack and scary up the back when the front car stalled in the middle! My pass was later entering 1 as some others were.

It was the passing under warmup I wanted drivers to be aware of. It is not allowed to regain your position and it is also dangerous.

Mike Canner
09-21-2016, 04:24 PM
Agreed, tight pack and scary up the back when the front car stalled in the middle! My pass was later entering 1 as some others were.

It was the passing under warmup I wanted drivers to be aware of. It is not allowed to regain your position and it is also dangerous.

So when you passed those cars into one did you give the spots back?:)

Doug P
09-21-2016, 04:34 PM
So when you passed those cars into one did you give the spots back?:)

No, not allowed, under the rules thats another pass.

I did speak to the driver when we were waiting for track repairs.

He passed me on the restart.

Mike H
09-21-2016, 06:07 PM
Doug, if I were you I wouldn't tell anybody about your indiscretions on the track. :o

Oops, too late now. :D

ScotcH
09-21-2016, 11:17 PM
No, not allowed, under the rules thats another pass.

I did speak to the driver when we were waiting for track repairs.



Ummm ... what? News to me. Pass under yellow, give the position back by pointing the driver by ... that has always been what I was taught. Where does it say that giving the position back is not allowed?

Doug P
09-22-2016, 08:56 AM
Ummm ... what? News to me. Pass under yellow, give the position back by pointing the driver by ... that has always been what I was taught. Where does it say that giving the position back is not allowed?

It is not mentioned if specifically so the interpretation would be another pass. I thought I remembered someone a few years ago being penalized for taking the position back.

Easier under green.

DEK
09-23-2016, 05:56 PM
To Scotch, I don't think you will find it anywhere in the CASC Road Race Regulations that giving back a pass made under yellow makes it "right" with the Officials. The driver
that got passed, may be somewhat happier.

dolanm
09-23-2016, 06:38 PM
Arek - doesn't work that way as I found out about 5 yrs ago. There was a car parked on the back straight with a local yellow for 2-3 laps. I was chasing a Porsche from Quebec and passed him after the local yellow when the track went full course yellow . I waved him back past and we both got called in to the stewards and had to start at the back of the pack for the next race.

ScotcH
09-23-2016, 06:48 PM
To Scotch, I don't think you will find it anywhere in the CASC Road Race Regulations that giving back a pass made under yellow makes it "right" with the Officials. The driver
that got passed, may be somewhat happier.

That wasn't my point... Doug said that giving back the position constitutes ANOTHER pass under yellow, where the driver who initially did nothing wrong would get penalized. I find that highly suspect ...

Of course I don't expect the original pass under yellow to be forgiven, but there are sight issues and other factors and it happens, and giving the position back I would argue is the "right" thing to do. If the driver that did nothing wrong got called out for that, I would certainly be pissed (for him!)

shamrock
09-24-2016, 11:05 AM
probably a good idea if ORO and the race director look at this and issue a clarification bulletin. Should be simple enough.

Doug P
09-24-2016, 02:03 PM
That wasn't my point... Doug said that giving back the position constitutes ANOTHER pass under yellow, where the driver who initially did nothing wrong would get penalized. I find that highly suspect ...

Of course I don't expect the original pass under yellow to be forgiven, but there are sight issues and other factors and it happens, and giving the position back I would argue is the "right" thing to do. If the driver that did nothing wrong got called out for that, I would certainly be pissed (for him!)

I do not disagree.

oblio125
09-24-2016, 02:16 PM
I have always thought that the intent of the rule was in the interest of safety.
Giving the position back doesn't change the initial infraction and if done under
yellow could appear to be a new infraction because technically it's still a pass
under yellow. If it's done under green it's all good, but the initial infraction should still stand.

DEK
09-27-2016, 05:47 PM
Re accidental pass under yellow, it's easy to fix it with the passed driver under a local yellow, just let them pass you once your out of the yellow zone. Still not OK with the officials if it's reported.
An "accidental" pass under a full course yellow can be made right to the driver who got
passed by hraving the passing drive let the passed driver by once the track goes green.
Still doesn't "fix" it with the officials.