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Dave Barker
09-29-2016, 09:42 PM
At present the Car Classification Committee doesn't have any pressing ideas for rule changes for next year, either incremental nor radical.

If you have any ideas for rule changes for the 2017 season (that are not particularly self serving), now is a good time to bring them forward.

k.beaty
09-30-2016, 09:13 AM
How about bumping all doctors up a class? :D

scorcherjf
10-13-2016, 03:31 AM
Does the CCDB take into account cars with modern DCT transmissions as an advantage (usually more gears, shorter gearing, and faster shift speeds) rather than just extra weight compared to the same car with a manual?

Greg Campbell
10-13-2016, 11:58 AM
What is the status of the 'Raw Time Challenge' class? I didn't see anything about this class (or results) beyond the sticky.

Dave Barker
10-13-2016, 01:40 PM
Does the CCDB take into account cars with modern DCT transmissions as an advantage (usually more gears, shorter gearing, and faster shift speeds) rather than just extra weight compared to the same car with a manual?

We haven't looked at this specifically, at least not yet but it is a good point if we have a DSG (or SMG or whatever your particular manufacturer calls their version of a paddle shifting manual) that is at a lower PI due to the extra weight of the car but doesn't pay for the faster shifts.

What is the status of the 'Raw Time Challenge' class? I didn't see anything about this class (or results) beyond the sticky.

RTC classes were very poorly attended, no doubt in part due to the rules coming out in late March. Certainly not enough time to build an RTC car.Some better promotion this year should help with that as well as fewer conflicts with CSCS.

nissannx
10-13-2016, 05:39 PM
How about bumping all doctors up a class? :D

Love it!:D

Slowpoke
10-14-2016, 11:09 AM
Does the CCDB take into account cars with modern DCT transmissions as an advantage (usually more gears, shorter gearing, and faster shift speeds) rather than just extra weight compared to the same car with a manual?

Yes. The CCC considers it for certain cars. E.G.: it was considered at length for Cayman S and R and the time difference of the PDK. However, there are no PIPs for switching to a sequential transmission from an automatic or manual transmission at this time.

scorcherjf
10-14-2016, 11:33 PM
Yes. The CCC considers it for certain cars. E.G.: it was considered at length for Cayman S and R and the time difference of the PDK. However, there are no PIPs for switching to a sequential transmission from an automatic or manual transmission at this time.
So does this mean the CCC considered it for the Cayman R and decided to not apply any differences to them in terms of PI? On the CCDB the PI for the Cayman R PDK is 79.7 while the manual is 80.1 with the only difference being the manual weighing less giving it a higher PI. To me this doesn't make sense because the PDK car is almost certainly faster despite the extra weight from the transmission. The PDK gives it one more gear, more aggressive gearing as well as a different final drive ratio. This doesn't even consider the much quicker shifts. Under the transmission rules, changing ratios or final drive ratio does incur 1 pip. I'm not saying all cars that have the option of getting a dual clutch tranny should incur 1 pip but I think there should be some sort of adjustment. This would apply to basically all Porsche PDK cars as well as other modern cars with the option of a DCT (BMW E92 M3 and new M4 come to mind as well as Mitsubishi Evo X MR).

Slowpoke
10-15-2016, 08:40 AM
So does this mean the CCC considered it for the Cayman R and decided to not apply any differences to them in terms of PI?

Yes, based on laptime data available at the time of it's release, the difference was not enough to warrant a 5PI improvement versus a good driver with a manual on the tracks we visit. If software updates have improved the laptime, we can revisit.

wparsons
10-15-2016, 12:07 PM
Yes, based on laptime data available at the time of it's release, the difference was not enough to warrant a 5PI improvement versus a good driver with a manual on the tracks we visit. If software updates have improved the laptime, we can revisit.

Didn't the exact opposite happen? The manual is SGT3 and the PDK is GT1. Not as important now with iPax, but before the manual was penalized a full class stock vs stock when it was arguably slower than the PDK.

Dave Barker
10-16-2016, 05:27 AM
James, thanks for bringing up this topic. The CCC should certainly look at more than just the wgt changes in cars with paddle shifting manual trannies with respect to car classification but it will not really require a rule change.

CCC, we have a bit of work to do but we would be happy with any information we can get from others.

Slowpoke
11-16-2016, 10:17 PM
Just a reminder to everyone, that there is no planned Time Attack rules chat / workshop at the Sheraton like in most years. Yay, rules stability!

Brutus
01-01-2017, 01:47 PM
Stephen,

Can the CCC confirm that there will be no rule changes for 2017? With my car in pieces it would be refreshing to know how I should proceed. Although I realize I'm only an occasional OTA entry at best, the CTDA / Ontario 1500 also uses these rules, hence my real interest.

Jud.