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View Full Version : Car plans for next year. Bench race season!


Saj5DJ
10-03-2016, 10:17 PM
Seems to be quite a lot of banter of what we're going to do for rides next year, so thought I'd kick off a place to bench race.

My issues first: Playing around on fun runs yesterday and it seemed my car was pretty down on power vs. Jamie's '99. No bueno considering the prep level differences. To continue on from the event thread, Jamie posted:

"How much oil are you burning and consuming?

What spark plugs? I tried 3 different ones to get a heat range I was happy with. (geek lol)

Are you sure your intake is gaining you any HP? Might hurt. What size is your exhaust?

I wonder if your more flat torque curve (thank vvt) makes it not feel as fast? Whats your base timing? Mine is 10dregees advance (stock) i think you can run up to 15 with 91 gas. Not sure if this helps nb2 with VVT on intake cam."

She does burn some, Lincoln trip was 2 quarts or so of 5W-40 over 3,200km. Rear main seal leaks like a sieve. 186,000 miles on it.

Haven't had a chance to compression test it yet, but did think of another point of reference. Did do a lapping day at Shannonville this year, just occurred to me to look at the AIM data from the straight. Blue line is 2016, red line is 2014, green line was my '97 from 2013. Conditions were similar in all cases:

http://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah104/barrygreenaway/Miata%20Traces_zpsw8ffq6db.jpg~original

Setup hasn't changed since 2014: Racing beat header, Goodwin mid pipe and catback (2.5"), MS3 setup as piggyback. Not exactly conclusive, but losing 6kph with the same braking point and better entry speed looks bad. Six tenths lost on the straight.

Anyway, lets see what compression test says to start, then I need to figure out where to go from there.

Lynam55
10-03-2016, 10:26 PM
Anyway, lets see what compression test says to start, then I need to figure out where to go from there.

Go ap2 s2k and DO NOT look back. :D

Lynam55
10-03-2016, 10:29 PM
Who did the tune and was it backed up to really add power?

Daniel
10-03-2016, 10:33 PM
Go ap2 s2k and DO NOT look back. :D

I don't have much seat time in an sk2 but I find it hard to believe that you can beat a well prepped Miata on any autocross course we'll encounter here in Ontario. Talking street or ST prep level (street tires).

Hmmm, might need some time in Dina's and Curt's sometime to disprove my theory... ;)

Thinking I'm ready for a change and it's time to retire the M3, but I'm going to take my time to figure it out. May look to spend 2017 co-driving to help me decide. I certainly have ideas though.

darcyw
10-03-2016, 10:45 PM
Go ap2 s2k and DO NOT look back. :D

nearly...go with DBW ('06+) AP2 with FlashPro+, intake, euro mod exhaust (cause sound equals horsepowers), stonkin' front bar, square tire set up (255 40r17). the non DBW ('00-'05) are not as easily modifiable ECU wise. you'll need to lower the seat as well- bolt in affair.

good S2000's are currently only rising in price- a few short years ago when they were at the low end of the depreciation scale, were modified by hellaflush kids. then promptly crashed them. The last clean CR i saw with 85K miles was being sold for $26K USD.

total cost will be more than a well prepped and competitive NB or NC.

good '06 AP2's will run about $22-25+ (the crappy Canadian:USD is to blame here), flashpro at $1000, spare square rims and new RE71R's or equivalent $12-1500, bar $400, intake $300, etc. etc.

or you buy one already STR prepped- one top shelf competitive AP1 was just up on s2ki.com for about $25 USD. 6 years ago i found an '05 fully prepped for $16K USD AFTER I bought my AP1.

lots of ways to skin a cat, eh? No question, they are a really fun car to drive and own. some maintenance issues to look out for- but PM Curt or I and we'll fill you in.

I'll be looking for a 2011 Porsche boxster spyder when my cash for life comes in...or a fleet of s2000's.

darcy

13inches
10-03-2016, 10:52 PM
"It's cheaper to keep her"


Apply equally to cars and divorces.

Lynam55
10-03-2016, 11:02 PM
How about this for next year?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-/201682351764?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ef5347694:g:rvsAAOSw65FXsJc5&item=201682351764

darcyw
10-03-2016, 11:05 PM
How about this for next year?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-/201682351764?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ef5347694:g:rvsAAOSw65FXsJc5&item=201682351764

"oh F**k yeah bud!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjdhnmQ-wmk

darcy

Lynam55
10-03-2016, 11:08 PM
lol.

ONE DAY!

Travis
10-04-2016, 12:04 AM
For 2017? I'm not going to be competitive so maybe unhook my front sway & become the drift god? :cool:

In 2019 I hoping to be free of child seats and driving a BRZ, or something else that's RWD, has a roof, and can seat at least 2+2.

Saj5DJ
10-04-2016, 09:29 AM
"It's cheaper to keep her"


Apply equally to cars and divorces.

Counterpoint:

Why are divorces so expensive? 'cause they're worth it.

Also, S2k's are out. Stupid, stupid prices.

mikewolf
10-04-2016, 10:11 AM
I don't have much seat time in an sk2 but I find it hard to believe that you can beat a well prepped Miata on any autocross course we'll encounter here in Ontario. Talking street or ST prep level (street tires).

Hmmm, might need some time in Dina's and Curt's sometime to disprove my theory... ;)


I have only driven an s2k for one event ever. I would argue that your theory is incorrect. See event two results

mikewolf
10-04-2016, 10:15 AM
Barry, I would suggest you rebuild that engine (to the limit of the DP rule book). Then swap in a power rack and run electric PS and get rid of a bunch if stuff you don't need.

Daniel
10-04-2016, 10:32 AM
I have only driven an s2k for one event ever. I would argue that your theory is incorrect. See event two results

Oh I'm not saying the car (or you) aren't quick, I just think you could have been even quicker (talking pax as its a different class) in Steven Day's Miata. That's my bet. Tough for us to really challenge it though.

Ziploc
10-04-2016, 10:32 AM
How about this for next year?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Corvette-Z06-/201682351764?forcerrptr=true&hash=item2ef5347694:g:rvsAAOSw65FXsJc5&item=201682351764

I've thought long and hard about a BS C5. But then I realized that they'll never pax as well on some of our courses/venues. I mean, could you imagine getting that thing through the bus stop we had at Whitby? For street class, our region can have some pax breaking courses. Picton's higher than 'normal' speeds can let skinny torquey cars like my unprepped BMW pax fairly well. But at TLMC/Whitby/etc the smaller, nimbler, and softer paxed cars can/will dominate. EVO notwithstanding.

PAX works when our courses reflect courses found in the US. And that's not always guaranteed. Which can lead to some cheater combos. Not that I'm complaining. I loved different challenges presented from all our venues this year and I hope to see them all back next year.

Any C5 must be fun at Picton though.

13inches
10-04-2016, 11:01 AM
Never say never. GJ Dixon (US) won the '06 Canadian Nationals overall on a smallish, bumpy, lot at the Toronto Congress Centre in an SS-prepped C5Z.

Corvettes drive a lot smaller than they look.

needboost
10-04-2016, 12:38 PM
It's a short list for us...
Offset lower ball joints to accommodate proper autox level of camber.
New alignment
Fuel cell so we can run US Nationals.
Fresh set of Hoosiers
Mo Powa

D.

mikewolf
10-04-2016, 12:40 PM
Never say never. GJ Dixon (US) won the '06 Canadian Nationals overall on a smallish, bumpy, lot at the Toronto Congress Centre in an SS-prepped C5Z.

Corvettes drive a lot smaller than they look.

Yeah, and if GJ can do it, probably anyone can lol.

13inches
10-04-2016, 12:42 PM
Alien-level driver for sure.

Val ain't no slouch though (see: more SCCA trophies than you and I combined :( )

13inches
10-04-2016, 12:47 PM
Oh shit, I forgot the score is actually 1-1

http://i.imgur.com/lDSFdKL.jpg

mikewolf
10-04-2016, 12:51 PM
Fuel cell so we can run US Nationals.

D.

Awesome!
Best mod on the list so far

darcyw
10-04-2016, 02:34 PM
Also, S2k's are out. Stupid, stupid prices.

like I said...good cars are way up in price compared to 4 years ago. You might get in to a good 10 year old AP1 for $15K.
But wait, there's more...JDM s2000 are over 15 yrs old and can now be imported.

darcy

13inches
10-04-2016, 03:11 PM
"Nobody wants an AP1"
- Albert Einstein c.2004

suzukablue
10-04-2016, 06:30 PM
So maybe we can have a day Daniel where you codrive with me and Steve to settle it!

All I have to say about that is that I really hope you both come to Lincoln next year. My S2k is not competitive in BS against the C5, so to really settle this we need someone to fully build out an STR S2K...

darcyw
10-04-2016, 10:13 PM
So maybe we can have a day Daniel where you codrive with me and Steve to settle it!

All I have to say about that is that I really hope you both come to Lincoln next year. My S2k is not competitive in BS against the C5, so to really settle this we need someone to fully build out an STR S2K...

here you go. STR CR for $32K USD.

http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/1160147-str-2008-cr/

make your money, spend your money.

darcy

redneckdzl
10-04-2016, 10:45 PM
need to finish diesel swap, got 2 sets of r888 and only one car they fit on

Lynam55
10-04-2016, 10:58 PM
like I said...good cars are way up in price compared to 4 years ago. You might get in to a good 10 year old AP1 for $15K.
But wait, there's more...JDM s2000 are over 15 yrs old and can now be imported.

darcy

Show us JDM s2000, how much? Are jdm s2k any better then what we see.

Lynam55
10-04-2016, 11:02 PM
http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/lynams/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_20161004-215942_zpsn6dtsjfl.png (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/lynams/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_20161004-215942_zpsn6dtsjfl.png.html)

Barry looks like your out about 1000 bucks for a 60k-100k engine. I'm sure we could swap it in a weekend if you have beer.

mikewolf
10-04-2016, 11:16 PM
http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y451/lynams/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_20161004-215942_zpsn6dtsjfl.png (http://s1275.photobucket.com/user/lynams/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_20161004-215942_zpsn6dtsjfl.png.html)

Barry looks like your out about 1000 bucks for a 60k-100k engine. I'm sure we could swap it in a weekend if you have beer.

Tequila has powered most of Barry's miata upgrades

suzukablue
10-04-2016, 11:26 PM
I'll just post this here in case I can tempt anyone to jon me in BS!. This is Greg and Anne Vincent's car - they were at Canadian nationals (and Wilmington and Lincoln). This is a very well set up car. They are building an 818 this winter and so are leaving BS. BTW bringing a car up from the States is not hard - I imported mine from Washington state. They live on the east coast. From Greg:

I have not posted an ad for the S2000 since I have one race left in my season but it is a 2005 with 57000 miles.* It has motion control shocks and the Small Fortune Racing monster bar (aka Gendron bar) on the front.* The rear shocks are custom valved because I found myself at the end of the range and the car was still getting better.* That turned out to be a good decision as I almost reached the end of the new range before I got the balance I wanted.* It has a T1R 70EM exhaust modified to reduce drone.* I can explain that if anyone wants to know.* The race wheels are OZ Racing and they are in great shape.* The stock wheels are in fair condition but would look great with a coat of paint or power coat (I would go with paint because the powder coat heat treatment can damage the wheels if too high a temperature is used).* The original exhaust and front bar come with the car.* I’m thinking $20K but will consider a serious offer if it’s going to a good home.* Let me know if anyone has questions and I’ll do my best to answer them.

TOYSRUS
10-05-2016, 10:24 AM
Never say never. GJ Dixon (US) won the '06 Canadian Nationals overall on a smallish, bumpy, lot at the Toronto Congress Centre in an SS-prepped C5Z.

Corvettes drive a lot smaller than they look.

I could be wrong but i think that was done on R-compound tires. the C5 is transformed by that alone. In SCCA land C5(Z) are class winning cars but up here on streets, they don't stand a chance. You would be hard pressed however to find a car that does most everything else brilliantly. FANTASTIC lapping car, cheap on consumables, incredible fuel economy, and other than tires, you can pack everything you need for a week long trip to NAtionals!!

Lynam55
10-05-2016, 12:47 PM
Didn't you own a c5 vett? What was your reasons to sell it?

Daniel
10-05-2016, 12:50 PM
Didn't you own a c5 vett? What was your reasons to sell it?

Bill's going to build one of these, so I don't have to... ;)

https://mazdamotorsports.com/wcsstore/B2BDirect/wordpressimages/2015/09/SoloMX5-1.jpg

https://mazdamotorsports.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DisplayRacerStoryView?source=story&uniqueId=6233&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=

wparsons
10-05-2016, 09:36 PM
For 2017? I'm not going to be competitive so maybe unhook my front sway & become the drift god? :cool:

In 2019 I hoping to be free of child seats and driving a BRZ, or something else that's RWD, has a roof, and can seat at least 2+2.

If you need some convincing, you can take mine for a run at the ADC next year :D

Lynam55
10-06-2016, 10:10 AM
Bill's going to build one of these, so I don't have to... ;)

https://mazdamotorsports.com/wcsstore/B2BDirect/wordpressimages/2015/09/SoloMX5-1.jpg

https://mazdamotorsports.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DisplayRacerStoryView?source=story&uniqueId=6233&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=

Untill you guys blow out 2nd gear? :D

sjd
10-06-2016, 11:28 AM
My focus next year to get Keegan autocrossing and I'll be starting the season at Picton in HS with my Civic SiR competing against him.

Other than that they'll be no changes to the MX-5, which I'm sure I'll run at some point.

13inches
10-06-2016, 11:56 AM
I thought you were selling the MX5?

sjd
10-06-2016, 12:00 PM
I thought you were selling the MX5?

It was for sale for about 24 hours (Lynda is angry that I even posted it for sale at all) and after receiving a serious inquiry, I realized that I can't sell it.

Ziploc
10-06-2016, 10:54 PM
How much to rent? :D

needboost
10-07-2016, 10:58 AM
How much to rent? :D

Yeah! wouldn't want bushings and tires to dry out and crack.

D.

buurin
10-07-2016, 12:35 PM
Be a man and try to beat the field in a COROLLA! Bwa ha ha ha!

You can get to events and back at 6.3L/100km so you have more fuel to burn at events! And you can haul all your equipments and tires without any trailer and with all doors closed!

mikewolf
10-07-2016, 01:06 PM
Be a man and try to beat the field in a COROLLA! Bwa ha ha ha!

You can get to events and back at 6.3L/100km so you have more fuel to burn at events! And you can haul all your equipments and tires without any trailer and with all doors closed!

I agree. Barry, get yourself a corolla and be a man.

Mr2Rob
10-07-2016, 02:03 PM
for 2017? I'm not going to be competitive so maybe unhook my front sway & become the drift god? :cool:

In 2019 i hoping to be free of child seats and driving a brz, or something else that's rwd, has a roof, and can seat at least 2+2.

rx-8

Saj5DJ
10-22-2016, 02:39 PM
Barry looks like your out about 1000 bucks for a 60k-100k engine. I'm sure we could swap it in a weekend if you have beer.

By the book, compression is min 146psi to 198psi, max diff between cylinders of 28psi.

Just tested mine today (1-4): 179, 180, 170, 181

Original owner tested it before I bought it and got: 177, 181, 177, 179

Bit of a drop on 3, but doesn't look like engine swap time to me.

Maybe a valve adjustment? Retune? Exorcism?

needboost
10-22-2016, 06:18 PM
By the book, compression is min 146psi to 198psi, max diff between cylinders of 28psi.

Just tested mine today (1-4): 179, 180, 170, 181

Original owner tested it before I bought it and got: 177, 181, 177, 179

Bit of a drop on 3, but doesn't look like engine swap time to me.

Maybe a valve adjustment? Retune? Exorcism?

So what you're saying is that your engine is healthy and yet Jamie's car is running stronger?

D.

Lynam55
10-23-2016, 11:44 AM
By the book, compression is min 146psi to 198psi, max diff between cylinders of 28psi.

Just tested mine today (1-4): 179, 180, 170, 181

Original owner tested it before I bought it and got: 177, 181, 177, 179

Bit of a drop on 3, but doesn't look like engine swap time to me.

Maybe a valve adjustment? Retune? Exorcism?

I still think it might be just how the power comes on in the nb2 with vvt compared to the nb1 with out. Also how much does your wheel setup weigh?
Also the nb1 comes with the VICS intake manifold (better top end) and the nb2 VTCS (better emission) .

Saj5DJ
10-23-2016, 12:30 PM
There's still something to find I think.

It did dyno at 132whp on a Mustang, which is roughly 160hp at the crank, vs 140 at the crank for a healthy stock car. I'll do some winter maintenance and revisit that dyno in spring.

13inches
10-23-2016, 01:46 PM
Compression numbers are only one part of the equation. A leakdown test would be the next step.

Beyond that, I'd look closely at your tune and datalogs. Verify things like your base timing and fuel pressure, heck, check that the belt hasn't skipped a tooth and that your VVT is actually actuating.

Saj5DJ
10-23-2016, 03:50 PM
Absolutely. Lots of stones left unturned, just glad I dont appear to be in need of a new engine; I dont think Jamie is making more power than he should, just in case folks are reading it that way!

Silvia_Drift
10-28-2016, 05:53 PM
The S2000 is the greatest sportscar ever made. I'm not biased.

Daniel
10-28-2016, 05:58 PM
The S2000 is the greatest sportscar ever made. I'm not biased.

For humans 5'10 and under.... :(

rustysteel
10-28-2016, 10:36 PM
For the 'Rustang' I'm going to finally change out the 28 year old shocks and get some new (not heat soaked a thousand times) tires. I'm tempted to have a look at the rear drums but I'm a bit scared to see how bad they are. Fix an oil leak too, standard Ford stuff...

Going to get the thing aligned properly as well.

Only other issue is we are planning to drive across Canada this summer, working around the autocross schedule, of course.

Glenn

Just a little video because I'm missing the season already.

https://youtu.be/iqg_-3NBHsc

Saj5DJ
11-14-2016, 04:32 PM
Whaddya know... managed to finally fix the Celica. O2 sensors all along.

Hmm...

endura
11-14-2016, 05:42 PM
There's still something to find I think.

It did dyno at 132whp on a Mustang, which is roughly 160hp at the crank, vs 140 at the crank for a healthy stock car. I'll do some winter maintenance and revisit that dyno in spring.

mustang dyno east of gta. raised platform?

Saj5DJ
11-15-2016, 03:28 PM
mustang dyno east of gta. raised platform?

Believe so yeah; the one MT uses.

Edit: Nope. K-Tuned in Concord.

endura
11-15-2016, 05:47 PM
My experience, if you want reasonably comparable numbers go to a dynojet. Mustang dynos don't seem consistent due to inherent design variables and operator data inputs. My stock 1.6 na at 12 psi showed a fairy tale 260 whp on a mustang . I've got identical trap speeds at multiple tracks with a supercharged nc that was dynoed at 225 whp on a hub style dyno. They're not ideal for tuning but if you really want to know engine power dynojet offers reliable and consistent numbers that are repeatable through different shops/ operators.

Snizzoop
11-16-2016, 12:05 PM
Who cares about numbers? Oh wait...this is the bench racing thread!

I had my Civic tuned on a Mustang dyno in the summer...it made 150hp...ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY!

I was debating whether or not I should shave my head while it's off...but decided that's probably getting a bit greedy.

Greg Campbell
11-16-2016, 02:12 PM
I was debating whether or not I should shave my head while it's off...but decided that's probably getting a bit greedy.

I think you look better with hair anyway.