Rear Camber Arm Woes

[Carguy]

I recently purchased an Ingalls Camber kit for my RSX. Since then it has come to my attention that the rear camber arms have a tendency to fail at the welding point where the U bracket and bolt are attached (see pic). I have heard that the failure has occured right after installation with the vehicle at rest. :eek:

I showed the part to a local welder who wasn't impressed with the design. When I inquired if it was possible to make a better weld, he replied that it would only weaken the part. :(

At this point I don't want to sell the part to an unsuspecting buyer nor can I return it to the on-line store I bought it from. However, I am thinking of drilling a hole 5-7mm in diameter in the center of the U bracket through the bolt (itself about 14-15mm), tapping it and screwing a bolt into it with some loctite. I hope this would make the part strong enough to prevent failure.

What do you guys think? Will definately
work, might work, or am I out of my mind?

[Carguy]

Here's a another pic that shows that the U bracket has a filled bottom (as opposed to a hole drilled through it). The bolt fits into a recessed circular dimple in the U bracket and is welded to the lip.

[Greg F]

It's too hard for me to make out much from those pictures--try shooting the part from an angle instead, using a non-reflective background, maybe blue, and using a flashlight instead of the flash.

Is the bolt a shoulder bolt with the head cut off?

[Carguy]

I don't know if it's a bolt with the head cutoff but it could be. My guess is that it was manufactured as a spindle and then threaded for the application.

Here is an illustration which may clear thing up.

[Do It Sidewayz]

if it was me i'd do one of 3 things.

1. take it to a machine shop, and get them to "cut" off the bolt section, then get them to turn downt he cut end to form a say 5/16ths pin at the end of the bolt. after you grind the "u-brackets" flat, drill a hole in the "u-bracket" to accept the now pin at the end of the bolt, and have it all re-welded. It should be plenty strong then. We basically do the same thing with Spindles on my kart, and we haven't broken one yet (knock on wood)

2. Add some gussets to it.

3. Make some new ones entirely. They don't look like they are that complicated. Only problem may be the thread, as i'm sure it's metric, and appears to be a fine thread. Finding Metric fine bolts is difficult at the best of times. Not to mention a grade of bolt strong enough to use for suspension

[Wedge]

Yeah, can't see much from those pictures.
Your idea about drilling/taping. You'll rarely make something stronger by removing material.
My suggestion: Do the opposite. Add more metal to it.
A pair of gussets, with some high quality welding, should make a big difference.
There's two ways to go about this:
Use two triangle-shaped gussets welded on each side of the bolt.
Or, use two half-circle shaped gussets, which sandwich the bolt.

[CobraStang]

Plan 7:
Cutoff and trash the spindle.
Obtain a threaded rod of the correct thread pitch (Brafasco stocks or can order just about anything).
Drill a hole in the U bracket big enough for the threaded rod to fit through.
Insert the rod into U bracket, and fasten in place using a nut on each side of the U bracket. If there is room, use washers that are as wide as the U bracket for more support.
Weld the rod, washers, and the nuts into place.
Presto! The U bracket will break before anything else.

[Steven Scala]

Why does the 'bolt' section of this part have such a long, unthreaded shoulder?

CobraStang's Plan 7 calls for full-threaded rod. I think the right metric shoulder bolt should be stronger, with a washer welded to the thread-side of the U-clamp after the bolt is put through.
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(proper shoulder-length bolt -> u-bracket -> welded washer)

I would guess that TIG is the only way to go here, though I'm no welding expert.

Steve

[P.Po]

CarGuy,

Before you go modifying parts take a look through these two books:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0879381868/qid=1089122831/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-4189449-1661740?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0879384069/qid=1089122831/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/102-4189449-1661740?v=glance&s=books

From what I understand from these books, your best bet would be to just buy something better designed instead of messing with the parts pictured. Drilling a whole will only weaken the whole unit regardless of what you put through it. Adding more material without thought won't do much either, in fact it will probably weaken the part as well. Your best bet is to gusset the failure point somehow.

If you are in a pinch I would be willing to lend you the books so you can see what I mean. But I am basing all of this from theory from the books, not from any experience, so please take what I say with a grain of salt. I hope you can get a cost effective and strong solution.

Let us know what you decide to do, and of the result!

-Patrick

[Carguy]

Thanks for all your input guys! Much appreciated. I'm not 100% sure which way to go. But I am toying with the idea of getting a new U braket and spindle and fabricating something stronger instead of modifying what I have. Thanks, and I'll post the results.

[CobraStang]

Originally posted by Steven Scala
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..............................____/ Hey! That's some nice drafting! What program is that? QWERTY Drafting for Dummies? :D
And the bolt, if available in the right size, would be better than Plan 7...call it Plan 7.1?

[Greg F]

I would first contact Ingalls with my concerns. If they're already aware of the problem, they likely already have the fix, and are prepared to solve your problem for a lot less hassle than you might think.

[Carguy]

Experience related to me from other boards indicates that if the part fails then Ingalls will replace it. What I'm trying to do is ensure that I don't get a part failure in the first place. Check this link for Ingalls Warranty Information (http://www.ingallseng.com/limited_warranty.htm) . I think you'll find enough in the disclaimer to see where I'm coming from. Basically it says that if you modify your vehicle (duh, why would I need a camber kit) or if you use it in competition (precisely the time when I think the failure will occur) then the warranty is void.