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Chris Lawson
12-05-2016, 02:38 PM
Halton Police are hosting a Commercial Vehicle Safety seminar for vehicle under 11,000 kg, which includes most racers with pick up truck and enclosed trailers.

Get all your questions answered straight from the officer. You must RSVP as spots are limited. Dec 8th, Oakville. Scales will be available if you want your stuff weighed up.

DavidSim
12-05-2016, 06:13 PM
Thank you Chris, I have sent in my name and am hoping to be there.

Regards

MarkoPolo1
12-05-2016, 08:18 PM
That is an awesome idea. I wish I was able to attend. Hopefully David will soak in all the wisdom and share it with us at some point.

All the best
Cheers

DavidSim
12-06-2016, 08:29 AM
I'll try my best to do so.

TheJuggernaut
12-06-2016, 09:35 AM
Aww c'mon, during PRI?! Chris can you get em to do it again in the spring when we dig out our tow rigs?

Chris Lawson
12-06-2016, 05:22 PM
I think if we had a group of 10 or more, I could get another seminar, just for racers and the like.......

daleyc
12-06-2016, 05:24 PM
I think if we had a group of 10 or more, I could get another seminar, just for racers and the like.......

I'd be in for something like this as well. Maybe in the new year?

Chris Lawson
12-07-2016, 10:02 AM
Ya we can do that. Likely best in the Spring in the event people want their rig weighed up....??

23Racer
12-12-2016, 06:13 PM
Ya we can do that. Likely best in the Spring in the event people want their rig weighed up....??

Chris, this is a great service as after my experiences this past fall, I realized that there is a ton of misinformation out there and people need to be careful.

I had to back out of a purchase a safe tow rig setup due to the need for a CVOR as it was a 5th wheel rig and the potential total weight was above 10,000 lbs. The fact my or most other insurance carriers will only cover a CVOR'd rig through their commercial policy side. This meant that I was considered a 1st year Commercial Driver and insurance would have been over $4,500 a year just for the one rig. I was working with the MTO all the way through the purchase and wanted to do things correctly and it just got nuts with the whole annual complete rig inspections, separate logbooks for rig and drivers ,including personal driving and everything. Therefore, I will continue to tow with my Explorer and have to stay under 7,000 lbs which is the towing capacity of the truck. Not as safe, but legal and doable for me.

Eric

ScotcH
12-12-2016, 07:05 PM
Chris, this is a great service as after my experiences this past fall, I realized that there is a ton of misinformation out there and people need to be careful.

I had to back out of a purchase a safe tow rig setup due to the need for a CVOR as it was a 5th wheel rig and the potential total weight was above 10,000 lbs. The fact my or most other insurance carriers will only cover a CVOR'd rig through their commercial policy side. This meant that I was considered a 1st year Commercial Driver and insurance would have been over $4,500 a year just for the one rig. I was working with the MTO all the way through the purchase and wanted to do things correctly and it just got nuts with the whole annual complete rig inspections, separate logbooks for rig and drivers ,including personal driving and everything. Therefore, I will continue to tow with my Explorer and have to stay under 7,000 lbs which is the towing capacity of the truck. Not as safe, but legal and doable for me.

Eric

I think you're still misinformed ...There is a personal use exemption for trucks that does not require a CVOR. VWR under 6000 kg:

Personal use
When the same pick-up is being used for personal use the pick-up is exempt from CVOR daily inspection and hours:
- the driver is not required to produce a CVOR certificate.
- a daily inspection is not required,
- the driver is not subject to the hours-of-service rules.

But you will need a class A license for > 10000 lbs (4600 kg). This has nothing to do with being commercial however.

23Racer
12-12-2016, 10:14 PM
That's what I thought ad well, but I was forcefully informed there is no race car exemption as the moment you add tools it becomes a work vehicle and is subject to regular rules. The only exemption is when you add beds and stuff and it becomes a toy hauler/ camper.

The MTO liaison was very clear on all of this. He may have been wrong, but I am not sure.

Eric

metric1
12-12-2016, 10:34 PM
Eric, My Dodge is registered for 11,000kg. No cvor required because I asked for a personal use exemption. Not everyone at the license office knows the rules, so it takes some navigating. If you ask them, they have the paperwork there to do it.

Doug P
12-13-2016, 05:55 PM
Eric, My Dodge is registered for 11,000kg. No cvor required because I asked for a personal use exemption. Not everyone at the license office knows the rules, so it takes some navigating. If you ask them, they have the paperwork there to do it.

I believe you can also reduce the declared weight to save on licence costs.

Doug P
12-13-2016, 06:00 PM
Ii have a standard GMC 1500. I have tow mirrors and use a heavy ball and weight distribution.

Long story short, MTO pulled me over in Alliston a few years ago. Told me I had a nice heavy duty truck and needed a CVOR and logs and such. Wrote me up with a ticket. I explained I was personal use only and such but noooooo, I ge the ticket.

I was not even towing at the time!!!!! Nothing on the back!! WTF

Got his bosses number and Chris called and had him cancel the ticket in 30 minutes. Not all the MTO guys really have a clue. Luck of the draw.

Go to meeting and also suggest you carry a printed copy of the exemption stuff and your scale info in your truck at all times.

metric1
12-13-2016, 06:09 PM
Go to meeting and also suggest you carry a printed copy of the exemption stuff and your scale info in your truck at all times.

Very good advice. A contact name at MTO also helps. 11000kg is the max I can register my truck for without needing extra licensing and cvor paperwork. But that covers the weight fully loaded.

Doug P
12-13-2016, 06:32 PM
Very good advice. A contact name at MTO also helps. 11000kg is the max I can register my truck for without needing extra licensing and cvor paperwork. But that covers the weight fully loaded.


Hmmm. I thought the magic number was 15,000 Lbs

23Racer
12-14-2016, 10:39 AM
I was told 10,000 kgs by the MTO Liaison? I could have jumped through most of the hoops and paid the extra insurance (that would have worked out to almost a grand a race weekend), but the one that really stuck in my craw was keeping the drivers log book for all the driving I was doing including personal and driving for my job, plus when I was towing. There was a weekly limit on what I could do.

All of this, plus the potential hassles of towing with any pick up truck of any size, has led me to looking at a 20 foot trailer to pull behind my Explorer or if I was going bigger on the trailer, finding an Excursion from down south. They pull on car plates and are somewhat exempt.

What really bothers me is that the regs are so vague, confusing and at times contradictory, that even the MTO Officers can't stay up to date on them and tend to interpret them differently depending on their personal understanding. I just want to tow my race car and track stuff in a safe and secure manner, with full insurance that wont kill me and not get hassled by the MTO. I don't want to have to have someone like Chris on speed dial if I get pulled over. To achieve this basically requires a mid size SUV and an open trailer.

Eric

DavidSim
12-14-2016, 01:22 PM
I found the seminar very interesting and helpful, the three Officers there really knew their stuff, they mentioned they had taken special courses and were properly certified to do the job they do.

One thing they mentioned that I would like to add is that if you are driving your pickup with your enclosed car hauler hooked to the back then you should technically be stopping at the inspection scales when they are open. They advised that it is unlikely that someone at the scales is going to hop in their car and come after you as such if you don't, but it technically could happen.

I did not know about the loophole for Explorers/Suburbans/and the like, seems they are exempt from a lot of the legalities that we folks with pickups and cargo vans have to comply to.

One thing that impressed me is that they were familiar with the ability to remove the ABS on some trucks (which I am doing on my beloved Silverado 2500 HD, with a separate proportioning valve for the back brakes) and still be legal, usually most people are not aware of that (even at the MOT).

Thanks again to Chris for the heads up on the seminar.