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View Full Version : July 29 / 30 BARC Canadian Touring Trophy Races Whose Coming


Track Mom
07-24-2017, 10:29 AM
http://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/files/2017_ctt_provisional_competitor_schedule.pdf

Hi All: Hope you all signed up for this weekends BARC Event. Cant wait to see you all there:D

13inches
07-24-2017, 11:41 AM
Ooooh, Ferraris in town.

Are CASC and the sponsors still doing complimentary tickets for the regional weekends?


Edit: Found them!
http://www.casc.on.ca/roadracing/roadracing_tickets

Track Mom
07-24-2017, 11:44 AM
We sure are follow this link and pick up as many complimentary tickets as you want:
http://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/files/2_barc_july_29-30_2017_wicket.pdf

Morrow
07-30-2017, 09:55 PM
Wow, CASC wonders why there is a worker retention problem.....
They need to look at Saturday.... early start time, not off track until after 7:30 pm. The last race, GT Challenge 14 cars spread over 5'classes.... at the end of a hot July day!? 9 cars running at the end.....
When I began volunteering in 2003 9 am start was the norm, any time before that was an exception. 5'pm off track was the goal. 7:30??? For a regional? I expect that, and know in advanced for IMSA and Indy but not a regional. Maybe it is my error for not looking at the schedule and adding up each race groups time before I decided to VOLUNTEER my time. No worries I can find other organizations to volunteer which won't take their volunteers for granted.

Mike H
07-31-2017, 09:57 AM
Being told at the 7:40 morning marshals' meeting on Saturday that the day wouldn't end until 7:30 was real unwelcome news to most of us.

Our numbers were already very low (maybe past BARC experience) with many of us standing at the same location for the entire day without the option of rotating positions.

While most of us are very understanding if unexpected delays in the schedule occur due to serious incidents or oil spills.....but this 11+ hour day was PLANNED. In the 16 years that I have been marshalling at CTMP, this is the first time I have ever seen such a schedule for a Regional event.

If such a schedule appears for future BARC events I will not be there.

DEK
07-31-2017, 05:27 PM
So, to the people complaining about the long days.... The days are LONG because the Clubs must invite enough race groups to PAY the expenses of a Regional weekend
At LEAST $55,000 !!! Do the math, how many $500 entries does it take to bring in
$55,000. The Clubs have also already taken major steps to reduce costs !!!
Clubs, BARC included, cannot PLAN on running an event quaranteed to loose $15,000 to
$20,000.
Lots of competitors before the start of the season basically PROMISED to show up for
2 or 3 hour races. There's been lots of time between events but the 30 car fields
for the 2-3 hour events are NO WHERE to be seen. Neither at CTMP or SMP.
If you have CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on how to have shorter days and enough grids to pay the
bill, please contact any member of the BARC organizing team. Names are on the Supplemental Regulations. Planning for next year has already started in the discussion
stage. Yes, I too worked all day 3 days at SMP, all 3 days all day at the Honda Indy and Friday evening all day Saturday and Sunday at BARC at CTMP and Sunday was MY BIRTHDAY !!!

Shark
07-31-2017, 05:45 PM
Happy Birthday Dave.
Except for the heat, I had a great weekend.
Lots of cars, lots of new drivers. Great racing, especially in the GT Sprints where we had 40 plus cars. Intense action all the time.
Thanks to Barc and all the marshals as well... and to all the volunteers, there are many behind the scenes that we never see and take for granted.
We drivers DO appreciate the marshals standing out there all day, no question.
Sometimes I would love to switch places being that the cockpit of my car must be in the 140 or more degree temp. You can't touch the cage it's so hot.
A cool suit is next.
Once again, GREAT WEEKEND had by everyone I talked to.
Thanks:D

Shark
07-31-2017, 05:46 PM
Oh, and Dave, maybe I will let you by me a beer next time instead of a coffee... to celebrate your birthday.

Steven Scala
07-31-2017, 05:48 PM
Counted up the session times on the provisional schedule posted ahead of the weekend (i.e. the actual "plan" as such), and it indicates a Saturday finish time of ~5:13PM.

Wondering whether those peeved with the delayed millertime aren't maybe pointing fingers in the wrong direction? Perhaps the issue's with those whose cars oiled down the track on Saturday, causing long cleanup delays?

Morrow
07-31-2017, 05:49 PM
See to the people complaining about the long days.... The days are LONG because the Clubs must invite enough race groups to PAY the expenses of a Regional weekend
At LEAST $55,000 !!! Do the math, how many $500 entries does it take to bring in
$55,000. The Clubs have also already taken major steps to reduce costs !!!
Clubs, BARC included, cannot PLAN on running an event quaranteed to loose $15,000 to
$20,000.
Lots of competitors before the start of the season basically PROMISED to show up for
2 or 3 hour races. There's been lots of time between events but the 30 car fields
for the 2-3 hour events are NO WHERE to be seen. Neither at CTMP or SMP.
If you have CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on how to have shorter days and enough grids to pay the
bill, please contact any member of the BARC organizing team. Names are on the Supplemental Regulations. Planning for next year has already started in the discussion
stage. Yrs, I too worked all day 3 days at SMP, all 3 days all day at the Honda Indy and Friday evening all day Saturday and Sunday at BARC at CTMP and Sunday was MY BIRTHDAY !!!

Happy Birthday
I guess fees and costs will only get higher if that is the trend to add more groups = longer days, because the tracks will have to provide paid workers, there won't be any one willing to volunteer all those hours.'

Morrow
07-31-2017, 05:59 PM
Counted up the session times on the provisional schedule posted ahead of the weekend (i.e. the actual "plan" as such), and it indicates a Saturday finish time of ~5:13PM.

Wondering whether those peeved with the delayed millertime aren't maybe pointing fingers in the wrong direction? Perhaps the issue's with those whose cars oiled down the track on Saturday, causing long cleanup delays?

Nope, we were told by BARC at the morning meeting Surprise! They were targeting 7:30 off track! Some how they made up time despite the incidents.

Mike H
07-31-2017, 06:24 PM
See to the people complaining about the long days.... The days are LONG because the Clubs must invite enough race groups to PAY the expenses of a Regional weekend
At LEAST $55,000 !!! Do the math, how many $500 entries does it take to bring in
$55,000. The Clubs have also already taken major steps to reduce costs !!!
Clubs, BARC included, cannot PLAN on running an event quaranteed to loose $15,000 to
$20,000.
Lots of competitors before the start of the season basically PROMISED to show up for
2 or 3 hour races. There's been lots of time between events but the 30 car fields
for the 2-3 hour events are NO WHERE to be seen. Neither at CTMP or SMP.
If you have CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on how to have shorter days and enough grids to pay the
bill, please contact any member of the BARC organizing team. Names are on the Supplemental Regulations. Planning for next year has already started in the discussion
stage. Yrs, I too worked all day 3 days at SMP, all 3 days all day at the Honda Indy and Friday evening all day Saturday and Sunday at BARC at CTMP and Sunday was MY BIRTHDAY !!!

Done the math...it takes 110 entries.

With all due respect, BARC has a reputation among marshals for running a slow day which may explain why we had so few marshals. Often 5 or more minutes between sessions even when the track was clear, afternoon sessions were to start at 1:15 but no cars on track until almost 1:30.

One other Regional club grids the cars near pit-out so that the next session can begin as soon as the last session ends with little or no delay.

My post is not so much a "complaint" as suggested above, but rather a warning that there are fewer and fewer marshals willing or able to stand in the same location for almost 12 hours....and it wasn't even cold or raining.

I too worked the 3 days of Indy and the 3 days of the BARC weekend (including the test day), but I'm not sure how that is relevant to this topic.

Mike Canner
07-31-2017, 08:31 PM
So, to the people complaining about the long days.... The days are LONG because the Clubs must invite enough race groups to PAY the expenses of a Regional weekend
At LEAST $55,000 !!! Do the math, how many $500 entries does it take to bring in
$55,000. The Clubs have also already taken major steps to reduce costs !!!
Clubs, BARC included, cannot PLAN on running an event quaranteed to loose $15,000 to
$20,000.
Lots of competitors before the start of the season basically PROMISED to show up for
2 or 3 hour races. There's been lots of time between events but the 30 car fields
for the 2-3 hour events are NO WHERE to be seen. Neither at CTMP or SMP.
If you have CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on how to have shorter days and enough grids to pay the
bill, please contact any member of the BARC organizing team. Names are on the Supplemental Regulations. Planning for next year has already started in the discussion
stage. Yes, I too worked all day 3 days at SMP, all 3 days all day at the Honda Indy and Friday evening all day Saturday and Sunday at BARC at CTMP and Sunday was MY BIRTHDAY !!!

We are all looking for the same end, quality racing with enough vehicles to pay the bills.
The good news is the car count was up in most classes, including challenge. The bad news is it was done at the expense of time.
Volunteers talk with their feet and when the show is not worth the time required they walk. This is not a threat it is a reality of dealing with volunteers, they come because there is something for them there, they leave when it is no longer worth the effort.
I suggest we do not get into a finger pointing exercise in the number of days worked, it is simply counter productive.
Is the point(s) being raised constructive ideas, perhaps not, but I would suggest that the fact the posts have been made is an indication to the "powers that be" that there is a line in the sand that has been crossed between what it takes to run an event and what it takes to staff an event.

xyz999
07-31-2017, 10:09 PM
Irrespective of the matters been discussed here, I just want to say that we racers really appreciate you marshals out there volunteering your time so we can race.

Steven Scala
08-01-2017, 10:34 AM
Ditto Jonathan Liu's statement, and further to Mike Canner's I think it's clear to see that GT Challenge's mix of leftover assumptions, interim solutions and half-measure improvements isn't engaging entries or the people most expected to be watching the action. I've been ticking over some ideas that would take very little effort to see through, and would like to share them in the next few days, once I've framed them succinctly.

TerryF
08-01-2017, 12:33 PM
Thank you all marshals for what you do and put up with. I quite honestly couldn't do it. Kudo's to you all.
How much more time do we waste catering to the few? It has been a no brainer for years. Get rid of the Challenge series once and for all, it's a joke. Who the heck wants to watch processions?
It is quite clear which is the most popular and successful race group, the GT SPRINTS!! There is always action on the track, which is guess what? Entertaining for both drivers and marshals. Last weekend we had 43 cars entered. That's almost half of the overall entries. Duh? Doesn't that say something?
Are the marshals ever asked for their opinion? They are a key source of input.
Please give them credit and consideration.
Give all the groups more track time, wear rated spec tyres perhaps (which would help as is a major expense for us all), and CASC to attract more sponsors.
I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is and donate $1000 to the GT Sprints group per weekend from Lubrico Warranty at CTMP GT Sprint races, and $250 for a marshal (random draw), plus a "horses ass" trophy every weekend to whom ever does the dumbest thing on track voted for by the marshals, to be presented along with the other awards after the race.
Lets try and put the fun back into our weekends, lets face it, isn't that why we do it?
Are there any other sponsors out there with ideas of their own? This is our racing that is at stake, we have to get more creative.

Steven Scala
08-01-2017, 01:16 PM
Get rid of the Challenge series once and for all, it's a joke. Who the heck wants to watch processions?

When something's broken or being used improperly, do you throw it out, or fix it?

Maybe an easy answer for those whose go-to solution is to banish other run groups and lend all benefits on one's own. Understandable, very common.

daleyc
08-01-2017, 01:53 PM
I just wanted to echo the sentiments of the other drivers. We really really really appreciate the marshalls sacrificing their time to volunteer at the track!

Secondly, I love the GT Challenge series. Unfortunately the car counts are consistently down and there have been a few times where there are only 1 or 2 entries per class. Turns it basically into a lapping session :rolleyes:
So much has changed to allow other drivers (non CASC licensed), other cars, other rulesets and we still can't draw the numbers.
Even with free admission we have a hard time drawing people to the track :(

TerryF
08-01-2017, 02:17 PM
Steven, how many years has the Challenge been broken, shouldn't it have been fixed by now? The low entries tell you its over. It's boring.
Its admirable that you are trying to defend it, but what are you doing to help it?
At least I am injecting money into my favourite group to try and help the situation for the Clubs, the opportunity is there for others to follow.

Steven Scala
08-01-2017, 03:14 PM
Steven, how many years has the Challenge been broken, shouldn't it have been fixed by now? The low entries tell you its over. It's boring.
Its admirable that you are trying to defend it, but what are you doing to help it?
At least I am injecting money into my favourite group to try and help the situation for the Clubs, the opportunity is there for others to follow.

I admire your supportive approach, Terry. Not only have I dragged a new entrant out of the feeder series' whose entrants we've otherwise largely failed to properly entice, but I'm actively working on a revised classification structure aimed specifically at reducing the casual observer's confusion, and it's so simple that I'll volunteer to manage the standings spreadsheet if asked to do so.

But to offer even more concrete support as you yourself have done, I'll offer a $1,000 sponsorship on behalf of my personal sponsor, raceburo.com, to a production-bodied Camaro/Firebird on DOT-approved tires that finishes above the Junction Autosport Civic in the overall classification in 2018's Shannonville 2hr.

Kustom
08-01-2017, 03:45 PM
I just wanted to echo the sentiments of the other drivers. We really really really appreciate the marshalls sacrificing their time to volunteer at the track!

Secondly, I love the GT Challenge series. Unfortunately the car counts are consistently down and there have been a few times where there are only 1 or 2 entries per class. Turns it basically into a lapping session :rolleyes:
So much has changed to allow other drivers (non CASC licensed), other cars, other rulesets and we still can't draw the numbers.
Even with free admission we have a hard time drawing people to the track :(


What has been done to promote or market these changes? Can't entice anyone if they don't know about it... even if it's free.. just saying.

daleyc
08-01-2017, 04:03 PM
What has been done to promote or market these changes? Can't entice anyone if they don't know about it... even if it's free.. just saying.

Not much besides word of mouth I'm guessing. Seems like only a couple (you and MT) have come over from chump to regional racing.

Kustom
08-01-2017, 06:04 PM
Not much besides word of mouth I'm guessing. Seems like only a couple (you and MT) have come over from chump to regional racing.

Well... that's unfortunate. Can't move a nation with 2 voices.


I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is and donate $1000 to the GT Sprints group per weekend from Lubrico Warranty at CTMP GT Sprint races, and $250 for a marshal (random draw), plus a "horses ass" trophy every weekend to whom ever does the dumbest thing on track voted for by the marshals, to be presented along with the other awards after the race.
Lets try and put the fun back into our weekends, lets face it, isn't that why we do it?


Is that a $1000 CASH prize? Anything else isn't very enticing.

Maybe a novice award... most improved... fan favourite vote (something to engage/interact with the fans), most consistant time award (oh wait.. that's what bracket racing is.... nevermind) Not a fan of the idiot award.... that's just encouraging stupidity IMO.

ed caranci
08-01-2017, 09:02 PM
I think I will weigh in here:

Firstly - I'm a total novice and this past weekend was my very first race in any series. First class and friendly treatment by any competitor that I interacted with. Great help and support from a couple. I have nothing but praise for the entire experience.
I had a half dozen or so friends and family show up over the course of two days and most of them are not race fans and they all left with smiles on their faces. They loved it. Especially the mixed class and speed differential between each.

As for the Challenge Races - and I'm a total newb here - has there ever been a poll of active GT Sprints drivers as to exactly why they dont participate in the challenge races and those results addressed?
I for one would love to drive an endurance event but having to have refueling friends have to go out and purchase all of the fire safety clothes and protective gear is the reason I wont.

Sorry for the long post, again - great experience thus far.

Ed Caranci
#78 gt3

Shark
08-02-2017, 08:36 AM
Ed, I'm glad you had a good time. As a new participant, you did great. It was nice to see another truck out there.
The GT Sprints field was huge and being thrust into that right off the bat could be intimidating.
Well done. :D

Steven Scala
08-02-2017, 11:24 AM
Always happy to see another entrant taking up the challenge. Welcome, Caranci. 👍

Iíve been around for entrant surveys like the one you've asked about, and Iíve also been able to take the lead on studies of the regionís demographics in the past. If I may make some predictions with respect to findings of such a poll:

Ask entrants in hi-po GTs and silhouette cars at the sharp end of the sprint grids and you might get a response skewed toward their status quo, not just among current winners but particularly among seniors. In these cases both the vehicle (esp. brakes + tires) and driver are better suited to short bursts with reduced odds of component fatigue. Average driver age on endurance grids is more indicative of what youíd expect from stint lengths that challenge component endurance, and (most critically from a participation standpoint) which enable sharing of entry costs.

Iíd go even further to suggest that among sprints competitors you'd more likely find endurance-friendly sentiments among those entrants fielding lighter and/or more consistent production and touring cars. Maybe try it on a weekend where sprint grids are mercifully split.

For what itís worth, those who characterize endurance races as a lapping day are kind of correct: theyíre like those days when you can lap whenever and however long you want, and score laps after the four-lap wonders have pitted. Sprints are more like those lapping days with short on-track sessions and far more bench-racing time. Itís all good.

See you at the track. ✌️

xyz999
08-02-2017, 01:51 PM
Hey guys, just want to voice my opinion on the challenge series.

I find that the 2/3 hour long enduro race to be interesting and would like to try it later this year when my car's ready, but the thing is that I have to get at least 2 "properly equipped" friends to help me with the pit stop (1 refueling, 1 to hold a fire bottle). Most of the time I am just at the track by myself so this is bit of an issue. In previous years, if my car doesn't break I usually sign up to do both Sprints and Challenge race when the enduro race was only 1 hour long. Perhaps we can keep the 2+ hour races to 1 or twice a year, and do more shorter enduro races?

Speaking of shorter enduro races, just another thought: I notice some other series feature 45 mins enduro races, perhaps if we have a shorter version of the enduro race, the sprint racers who are accustomed to running 25 mins wouldn't mind sign up for Challenge race as well to take advantage of the discount registration price. Also that would be easier on the equipment and consumables as well.

I don't want the challenge race to go away, so hopefully we can find a way to make it work. I don't think you can compare it to lapping, it is better than lapping as racing will involve managing pace & traffic. Racing in any form is just better than DE lapping with point by IMO (I don't like to wait for point by). More entrants would help making enduro races more fun.

Jonathan

Track Mom
08-02-2017, 02:48 PM
Thank you all marshals for what you do and put up with. I quite honestly couldn't do it. Kudo's to you all.
How much more time do we waste catering to the few? It has been a no brainer for years. Get rid of the Challenge series once and for all, it's a joke. Who the heck wants to watch processions?
It is quite clear which is the most popular and successful race group, the GT SPRINTS!! There is always action on the track, which is guess what? Entertaining for both drivers and marshals. Last weekend we had 43 cars entered. That's almost half of the overall entries. Duh? Doesn't that say something?
Are the marshals ever asked for their opinion? They are a key source of input.
Please give them credit and consideration.
Give all the groups more track time, wear rated spec tyres perhaps (which would help as is a major expense for us all), and CASC to attract more sponsors.
I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is and donate $1000 to the GT Sprints group per weekend from Lubrico Warranty at CTMP GT Sprint races, and $250 for a marshal (random draw), plus a "horses ass" trophy every weekend to whom ever does the dumbest thing on track voted for by the marshals, to be presented along with the other awards after the race.
Lets try and put the fun back into our weekends, lets face it, isn't that why we do it?
Are there any other sponsors out there with ideas of their own? This is our racing that is at stake, we have to get more creative.

What a generous offer and thank you on behalf of the racers and volunteers I only hope that if accepted. the draw for the marshals includes ALL track workers, pits, grids, clean up (TRS) as well as on track marshals .

shamrock
08-03-2017, 10:17 AM
Hey guys, just want to voice my opinion on the challenge series.

I find that the 2/3 hour long enduro race to be interesting and would like to try it later this year when my car's ready, but the thing is that I have to get at least 2 "properly equipped" friends to help me with the pit stop (1 refueling, 1 to hold a fire bottle). Most of the time I am just at the track by myself so this is bit of an issue. In previous years, if my car doesn't break I usually sign up to do both Sprints and Challenge race when the enduro race was only 1 hour long. Perhaps we can keep the 2+ hour races to 1 or twice a year, and do more shorter enduro races?

Speaking of shorter enduro races, just another thought: I notice some other series feature 45 mins enduro races, perhaps if we have a shorter version of the enduro race, the sprint racers who are accustomed to running 25 mins wouldn't mind sign up for Challenge race as well to take advantage of the discount registration price. Also that would be easier on the equipment and consumables as well.

I don't want the challenge race to go away, so hopefully we can find a way to make it work. I don't think you can compare it to lapping, it is better than lapping as racing will involve managing pace & traffic. Racing in any form is just better than DE lapping with point by IMO (I don't like to wait for point by). More entrants would help making enduro races more fun.

Jonathan

One hour races were fine. It should have stayed that way. Actually I enjoyed the 90 minute ones also because it was a challenge to not have to refuel. Still. one hours please.

HowardCohen
08-03-2017, 10:19 AM
I am the WRRC (Workers Recruitment and Retention Committee) rep for BARC, and a current director of BARC. This is my 3rd year on the WRRC committee and we have been trying to come up with new ideas to get more people involved as racers, volunteers, club members and spectators.

I started by offering tours of the track to newcomers. Very few takers. Every year we have a booth at the local race car/custom car show (now called Motorama). We have attended events at local schools and colleges. I have attended non-race events at CTMP and other sites such as car swap meets.. I have talked to several new car dealers and parts distributors in southern Ontario and I have passed out thousands of complimentary tickets in and out of the car industry.

Do we get a response? We don't know. The tracks do not tell us how many spectators came to an event and we have asked many times. I have talked to potential sponsors and one of the first questions is, 'How many spectators do you get to a race?' I have no answer. I know we give out several thousand complimentary tickets to each race and I tell them that. Then their interest stops. They won't invest money if they don't know what the return will be.

Do you have any ideas on how to get new people to the track? If so, tell your club executive or tell us. We will act on it. Thanks...




What has been done to promote or market these changes? Can't entice anyone if they don't know about it... even if it's free.. just saying.

daleyc
08-03-2017, 10:49 AM
Do you have any ideas on how to get new people to the track? If so, tell your club executive or tell us. We will act on it. Thanks...

Easier said then done but....social media! Create some buzz.
Instagram, facebook, twitter, ads on those platforms.
CSCS instagram followers - 14100 people
CASC instagram followers - 188 people
Chumpcar canada followers - 330 people

CSCS have paying spectators attend their events and they come by the thousands. That being said we aren't CSCS and they offer a different type of track experience...but one that draws spectators as well as big $$ and big HP cars.
Last year in May when it was snowing :eek: on track CSCS had a packed house at the DDT, and at the big track (CTMP) there was no one.

I think being interactive on social media goes a long way in generating interest for our sport and series and is something that sponsors want as well.

Mike H
08-03-2017, 12:09 PM
What's CSCS? By the thousands??

ScotcH
08-03-2017, 12:37 PM
What's CSCS? By the thousands??

Lol ... clearly the track community is very divided :)

Mike H
08-03-2017, 01:05 PM
Lol ... clearly the track community is very divided :)

Sorry, don't understand your response. Do you know the answer to my question?

ellswrth
08-03-2017, 01:40 PM
Sorry, don't understand your response. Do you know the answer to my question?

This should help, Mike

http://cscs.ca

Mike H
08-03-2017, 01:49 PM
Thanks Scott

iamthewheelman
08-03-2017, 03:22 PM
I have an interest in getting involved but don't for a few reasons.

I have been racing for a while, over half my short life at least, so its a long time for me. I started in karts as a kid and moved to time attack while in college as it was all I could afford to do. But I longed to go back wheel to wheel racing and when I finally had the time and money, I had no desire to try and go road racing with CASC. In my opinion the region's way of operating seems so antiquated. I have many reasons, and I will list a few, I intend to keep it short but I know it won't be.

1. Getting a race licence is a very convoluted process. Not to mention trying to find information on how to get it or who to talk to, is not easy. Head to the SCCA website, its so easy to find licence info it literally took me 5 seconds.

2. The actual racing structure is very strange. Bracket road racing, with short 20 minute timed races, just makes no sense to me. When ever I talk to people at time attack, Chumpcar and oval track events that say they have considered CASC road racing, the bracket format is a big turn off. And the increased length of Challenge events make it tough when your by yourself and have no crew, but the power to weight ratio idea is a big step in the right direction.

3. The events seem like separate weekends with no unity under one sanctioning body. The clubs run the events and market and promote all in different ways with different sponsors. Again, SCCA and NASA is so easy to understand. You run events, you get points, you go to runoffs and you can win a championship in your class if your good enough. Why not make it simple here in Ontario, its not hard. Have four race weekends instead of seven, and make it the "Ontario GT Championship" or what ever you want to call it. Two at Mosport, one at Shannonville and one at Calabogie. Ontario Time Attack simply says they have round 1 and 2 and 3 and so forth. Who has any idea the BEMC weekend and the BARC weekend are connected in any way? Probably not most people.

4. Lastly, no marketing and media exposure. Read Inside Track. What dominates the pages when it comes to amateur racing? Oval track racing. I am not a marketing or promotions guy and don't pretend to be, but clearly the oval track community gets the word out about what they do, and they attract the sponsorship money to prove it. There is no way I could go to a company and ask for money to road race. Short of me self promoting myself, CASC does nothing to promote the series for the competitors in the media. Guess what? I think my oval track car will have sponsors next year. Why? Because the tracks and the series, help promote what goes on at each event in multiple ways.

These are just some of the points I could make about why I find it unappealing to get involved. I continue to see these threads in this part of the forum about what is broken what can be done to fix it. I read lots of peoples opinions and hear the powers that be say they are changing things, but I don't see evidence of it at all.

Chumpcar Canada had some issues last year, and went to the competitors and asked what they could do as an organization, the general idea was to have less events on the schedule and they did it. Guess what? The green flag dropped at Mosport for the first event of the year and they had double the car count they were getting last year.

Have you been to your local oval track on a Friday or Saturday night? They don't seem to be hurting for people and there is lots of young folks around my age out competing and watching and helping out.

I feel bad because my post makes me seem very negative and like a huge downer but it is my opinion, and many people I seem to talk to feel the same way. I don't think I have all the answers and I am sure the people in charge of CASC try the best they can but I don't see the changes happening even though I hope they do. Until then, I will continue to race elsewhere in hopes a fun GT or Touring car style series is started, and when it does I will gladly participate.

daleyc
08-03-2017, 06:18 PM
1. Getting a race licence is a very convoluted process. Not to mention trying to find information on how to get it or who to talk to, is not easy. Head to the SCCA website, its so easy to find licence info it literally took me 5 seconds.

This changed this year and streamlined the licensing process is much faster/better/cheaper. Information is available but not as easy to find as other series' as you have said.


Chumpcar Canada had some issues last year, and went to the competitors and asked what they could do as an organization, the general idea was to have less events on the schedule and they did it. Guess what? The green flag dropped at Mosport for the first event of the year and they had double the car count they were getting last year.

After participating in the Watkins Glen Chumpcar event I could not believe how popular that racing series is! 109 entries starting on Saturday, 100 entries starting on Sunday. UNREAL numbers and all the cars built into a specific ruleset that I only know the basics about. I couldn't believe how many cars there were racing.

What's CSCS? By the thousands??.

Perhaps not by the thousands but a good amount of paying spectators (link below to picture).

Also to be clear I race (and enjoy racing in) CASC GT Sprints and Challenge ~4 events per year for the last 3 years.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWq7rIlHxfh/?taken-by=cscsracing

Dr.Smooth
08-03-2017, 07:19 PM
iamthewheelman

I agree with what you are saying other than the number of events. I think that should be the same,But there should be fewer run groups. For instance not every class has a race at every event.

A few more ideas.....

1.A PA announcer.

CSCS has a PA announcer and they blare music during the event. i'm not saying to blare music during the event, but having a PA announcer makes it feel like a event. Currently If you are a spectator, good luck knowing who is in the lead, who won or why number 317 didn't come around this lap.
I realize there is live timing on the internet but having someone tell the story of the race helps make it a event. Could probably get a student from a college broadcasting course to do it for free just to get some experience.


2. No more free tickets.

People love free stuff, but they love it even more, when the stuff they get for free normally costs something.

When something costs nothing it is percieved as having no value. Even charging 5 or 10$ would first of all help to offset costs, second it would give it a percieved value. As a added bonus organizers and racers would be able to tell sponsors how many spectators attend the events.

I know a wrestling promoter who for several years to drum up interest in the paid events would hold a free show at a local festival.
For the first two years there was no difference in attendance at the paid shows. People at the festival would just wander into the tent watch for a little while and leave. Someone suggested he should charge admission the next year. He did it was $5 for admission. A majority of people who came, stayed for the entire show instead of wandering in for a bit and leaving.
He saw a increase at his regular shows immediately.

3. Racers, marshals and spectators are customers.

Just in different ways. Racers, club member or not, pay a fee for a service. Marshalls pay by using their fuel to get to the track, and donating their time in exchange for free admission (oh wait admission is already free). Spectators although not paying for a ticket are investing their time and fuel they are also viewing the sponsor logos.

All are expecting "good service".

If the service is not satisfactory, or it is no longer fun. Someone might decide to do something else with their time, or go elsewhere.

How can the service be not satisfactory, racing is racing you may ask?

Scenerio: 20 minute race, 4 laps in someone pulls off, they don't acnowledge the Marshals and don't exit their car, full course yellow. Drone around the pace car to the chequrered.

From the perspective of a racer; "I paid all this money and put in all this prep time to drive behind the pace car." "I could have taken out the ATV today".

Same scenerio

From the perspective of a marshal; "Great another full course yellow for nothing". "Damn these two flags sure do get heavy after holding them for awhile". "I'm hot/cold/wet (or pick a combination), tired and bored".

From the perspective of a spectator; "full course yellow hmm I wonder why. I guess the race is over".

This scenerio could be avoided if the driver had just exited his car or given a simple thumbs up to the Marshals. Despite it being the fault of the driver it is ultimately the organizers fault for letting it happen. If it does happen the driver should be penalized in some way.

4. Free publicity is easy.

Social media is not rocket science and doesn't need to take up lots of time, but one person needs to take the lead or everyone will just assume somebody else will do it.

Remember what I said about people like free stuff? People like free stuff more when it normally costs something.
Giveaway a whole bunch of free tickets to radio stations for giveaways to listeners and station staff. Radio people love getting free stuff. In order to give them away they will have to talk about what they are giving away.

Small local newspaper are often looking for things to publish that they don't have to pay a reporter to write. Send out press releases or stories about upcoming events to as many small local newspapers as possible then a follow up after the event. Bonus points if some drivers or teams are from that area the local paper is more likely to publish it if there is a local connection. College journalism students would likely do the work for little to no money, just to get published and get their name out there.


I have more to add when I get more time.

DavidSim
08-03-2017, 10:27 PM
I cannot resist:

1. I think CASC Club Racing is great, and a bargain, I get to race on one of the best tracks around (CTMP) for a weekend, the amount of practice and number of races suits me just fine.

2. The races are well run, we are blessed with such wonderful volunteers at all levels, ambulance service, towing service (Robin and crew always handle our cars with great care), nice washrooms, free admission for my fans (I wish), camping, the CTMP facility is nicer than some small parks I've been too, gosh even my wife likes tagging along (she has positively commented on the washrooms, a very important item for the fairer sex).

3. I am surrounded by fellow car guys/gals, I've made a number of friends who share my passion for racing and the attending mechanical stuff, for the most part a great bunch of people that are a positive thing in my life.

4. I could not care less myself if there are few spectators, I am not going there to impress anyone. I do expect the Clubs to be whole of course, and I am willing to pay more to ensure they are not losing money if it comes to that.

5. I like GT Sprints, it gives everyone a chance to compete and do well provided they ensure their combination of driver/vehicle is in the hunt for their chosen class. There are enough classes that most driver/vehicle combinations should find something that matches their skill/performance level. For those who want flat out racing there are classes too to tickle your fancy (e.g. GT Sprints GT1, Formula Ford, Formula 1200).

6. Racing is a lot of fun, it is an important part of my life, I wish more people would discover what a blast it is. It is easy to complain but there is certainly a hell of a lot more good than not.

Also,

as for getting a license, not a big deal, it is easier than before, some effort is required but most good things in life don't just fall in your lap.

Come on in, the waters fine. I only wish I'd started a lot sooner, don't make the same mistake !!!

Steven Scala
08-04-2017, 01:18 AM
iamthewheelman

I agree with what you are saying other than the number of events. I think that should be the same,But there should be fewer run groups. For instance not every class has a race at every event.

Having seen this work elsewhere I pitched the idea of a reduced schedule to single-seater and sports prototype owners as a group several years ago. The idea was met with vociferous opposition from one car owner who hadn't entered a race in the previous six years, saying that he'd boycott the entire season if the region were to run a weekend wherein he couldn't run. We changed nothing and I think he finally made it out six years later.

Reflecting on this I've wondered about the potential to apply the single-day event concept as a compromise, specifically for different run groups expecting low turnouts on specific weekends. I've heard the complaints that when GT Challenge was well-subscribed, their Saturday night paddock exodus left Sunday's paddock looking less impressive to any casual observers, and as we know some of this year's events also suffered from the rigid misapplication of the GT Challenge's (arguably 'leftover') Saturday-only concept. This being the case I hope we don't miss out on a potentially useful (if at all workable) tool by throwing out the baby with the bathwater: my question for the ORO is whether single-day formats can be applied once or twice a season for different run groups on weekends where their own turnouts aren't expected to be great. Saturday-only worked fine for Shannonville's thin 2h grid as it wasn't exactly the weekend's headline race, and nobody would've missed that dozen or so cars in the paddock on Sunday. At the same time, I'd sooner expect single-seaters to be the 'Sunday feature' at SMP, just as I'd expect the same for short-format silhouette GT racing at some CTMP weekends. Long story short: groups could take turns being the star, and I have no problem with closed-wheel sprints having more turns 'headlining' than some other groups since they do so well grid-wise at CTMP in particular. I think that if nothing else, the 'weekend headliner' concept could result in some really cool race posters like the one out now for Ted Powell Weekend (http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showpost.php?p=261300&postcount=1). (Nice job, organizers!)

As for the endurance run group in particular, the province's current abundance of endurance teams currently frequents races long enough to enable cost and crewing to be shared among four drivers or more. You can't activate those economics with 2h races. We'd've seen far better turnout for a single 4h or 5h race than all these 2h races combined, particularly if such an enduro headlined its weekend like the Sundowner once had. I appreciate the region's overtures toward endurance racing this year, but I fear that offering 'the wrong endurance races' only provided fodder for some who'd prefer to alienate the enduro demographic.

HowardCohen
08-04-2017, 10:31 AM
The past 2 years at Motorama, I approached the various sports compact people and tried talking to them about attending our regional race events. Their response was a firm 'not interested'. They had no interest in any regional event. Why? They wouldn't say. I did talk to a man who runs his street car on lapping days and he is happy with just driving over the speed limit for 5 or 10 laps with no fear of a ticket and no added expenses, like safety equipment.

We have tried to find a person to handle social media but have not been able to find anyone. We have talked to the colleges and a few high schools but no luck. Do you know anyone who would do this for 1-2 years?

Again, if you have any ideas, try this. Discuss them, think them through, put them in writing, give them to your club executive and forward them to the WRRC or CASC Board of Directors. Maybe you can bring them to the annual general meeting for presentation.


Easier said then done but....social media! Create some buzz.
Instagram, facebook, twitter, ads on those platforms.
CSCS instagram followers - 14100 people
CASC instagram followers - 188 people
Chumpcar canada followers - 330 people

CSCS have paying spectators attend their events and they come by the thousands. That being said we aren't CSCS and they offer a different type of track experience...but one that draws spectators as well as big $$ and big HP cars.
Last year in May when it was snowing :eek: on track CSCS had a packed house at the DDT, and at the big track (CTMP) there was no one.

I think being interactive on social media goes a long way in generating interest for our sport and series and is something that sponsors want as well.

iamthewheelman
08-04-2017, 10:41 AM
I cannot resist:

1. I think CASC Club Racing is great, and a bargain, I get to race on one of the best tracks around (CTMP) for a weekend, the amount of practice and number of races suits me just fine.

2. The races are well run, we are blessed with such wonderful volunteers at all levels, ambulance service, towing service (Robin and crew always handle our cars with great care), nice washrooms, free admission for my fans (I wish), camping, the CTMP facility is nicer than some small parks I've been too, gosh even my wife likes tagging along (she has positively commented on the washrooms, a very important item for the fairer sex).

3. I am surrounded by fellow car guys/gals, I've made a number of friends who share my passion for racing and the attending mechanical stuff, for the most part a great bunch of people that are a positive thing in my life.

4. I could not care less myself if there are few spectators, I am not going there to impress anyone. I do expect the Clubs to be whole of course, and I am willing to pay more to ensure they are not losing money if it comes to that.

5. I like GT Sprints, it gives everyone a chance to compete and do well provided they ensure their combination of driver/vehicle is in the hunt for their chosen class. There are enough classes that most driver/vehicle combinations should find something that matches their skill/performance level. For those who want flat out racing there are classes too to tickle your fancy (e.g. GT Sprints GT1, Formula Ford, Formula 1200).

6. Racing is a lot of fun, it is an important part of my life, I wish more people would discover what a blast it is. It is easy to complain but there is certainly a hell of a lot more good than not.

Also,

as for getting a license, not a big deal, it is easier than before, some effort is required but most good things in life don't just fall in your lap.

Come on in, the waters fine. I only wish I'd started a lot sooner, don't make the same mistake !!!

To counter act what you have said here as it has some rebuttals from my post..

1. CASC road racing is no bargain. It's expensive in relativity. Unless you are extremely well off and are normally campaigning a series such as GT3 Cup or World Challenge, which are what I would consider, at the very least, a semi-professional series, CASC road racing has to be one of the most expensive forms of purely amateur level motorsports. Yes CTMP is very nice track, but other series offer the chance to race CTMP too. And people are, and for less money.

2. All these points hold up in other environments. People are not saying they are declining to get involved because CASC is not well run or the volunteers are grumpy and mean spirited and the track is a dump. The volunteers are extremely nice people, I have come out and spectated and helped friends at events, so I have seen how great they are first hand. Great volunteers are a great attribute CASC has going for it. But volunteers and poorly run events at a crappy track are not a problem for people not getting involved as competitors or spectators, and telling me how great these things are doesn't make me, or anyone else, want to come out and spend my money here to go racing when we are all pointing at other unaddressed issues.

3. This follows the same reasoning as number 2. There are great people at racetracks all over the Ontario and no one is saying the people at CASC events are not. This isn't a problem.

4. I really hope this is not the position of CASC and or the general consensus of current competitors in the paddock. People not coming out to watch is a major issue. It's great you are so willing to pay more money to continue to race, but not everyone can share that luxury. Many racers rely on sponsorship dollars and no spectators means less sponsor interest and more cost to compete. It's pretty easy to understand. There is a reason NASCAR and F1 drivers make a huge effort to thank the fans. Besides, have you ever raced in front of a big crowd of people? It's fun and I would even argue it makes the racing better.

5. Telling me to race a GT1 car, or a formula car to get my fix is a dangerous position to take. Do you know how much money it costs to campaign a year in one of those series? A lot more than I can afford to pay out of my pocket. The target demographic for those cars is small because of the required time and money to do it, and clearly they are not keeping regional road racing a float or there wouldn't be threads on how to get new people involved. I again hope this is not what CASC as a whole carries as an opinion.

6. You are totally right here. And I chose to do it elsewhere.

Also, if that's your response to someone who has an issue with the licencing procedure, then CASC will continue to struggle.

In closing, I appreciate that you enjoy your time with CASC as much as you seem to do, you have raised some fine points, all of which are true. But based on what you have said, if CASC made some changes to accommodate a new audience, it wouldn't affect you because the things you enjoy would still be part of a race weekend. So the water clearly is not fine, because people are not jumping in the CASC pond, they are however jumping in the one next door, as am I.

iamthewheelman
08-04-2017, 10:57 AM
The past 2 years at Motorama, I approached the various sports compact people and tried talking to them about attending our regional race events. Their response was a firm 'not interested'. They had no interest in any regional event. Why? They wouldn't say. I did talk to a man who runs his street car on lapping days and he is happy with just driving over the speed limit for 5 or 10 laps with no fear of a ticket and no added expenses, like safety equipment.

We have tried to find a person to handle social media but have not been able to find anyone. We have talked to the colleges and a few high schools but no luck. Do you know anyone who would do this for 1-2 years?

Again, if you have any ideas, try this. Discuss them, think them through, put them in writing, give them to your club executive and forward them to the WRRC or CASC Board of Directors. Maybe you can bring them to the annual general meeting for presentation.

I honestly do not think the CSCS crowd is your main draw. Although I would be curious to find out why they said they were not interested. Even though I am sure I know a few reasons why.

Your last point about how to bring our issues up, is probably a problem within itself. There is no info available that this is what the procedure is for voicing your opinion. But if it is, then it too seems kinda antiquated. I guarantee you that most people do not have the time to put it in writing and attend a meeting.

This whole club thing just doesn't make sense to me, and its confusing. Why the middle man? Can CASC not send a rep directly out to an OTA or Autoslalom event and ask the racers at those events what they would like to see happen at the road racing level to get involved? Why does stuff have to go through club reps and be put through a convoluted process before the people that make the decisions hear it?

Shark
08-04-2017, 12:36 PM
Getting a licence ????
Very simple.
Download the forms, fill them out and send in.
:D

shamrock
08-04-2017, 12:51 PM
Coulda sworn we ran a course at the track and licenced 7 people this spring:)

shamrock
08-04-2017, 12:53 PM
Sending you an email Ray.

ScotcH
08-04-2017, 12:53 PM
This whole club thing just doesn't make sense to me, and its confusing. Why the middle man? Can CASC not send a rep directly out to an OTA or Autoslalom event and ask the racers at those events what they would like to see happen at the road racing level to get involved? Why does stuff have to go through club reps and be put through a convoluted process before the people that make the decisions hear it?

While I don't find the club structure confusing (I've been a member for many years now), I certainly feel it is an antiquated structure to run a race series.

The clubs should be there as a social aspect and localized events in various regions, and a pool to draw volunteers, organizers, and racers from, and to collect a fee to support the organization (CASC-OR). THAT'S IT. The actual racing SERIES should be fully run and organized by the SERIES (in this case, CASC-OR), and the clubs should have nothing to do with it, other than the people. The whole profit sharing thing does not seem to be working, and some clubs idea of how an event is run is totally different from others ... that sucks because there is no consistency, and clubs are forced to abandon running a race weekend due to budget issues.

Keep the clubs local, and for local events, but if you want a cohesive series, run it from a central point. I totally agree that the various race weekends appear to have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Is there anyone actually racing for season points? If they are, there is no visibility of that at all.

I don't really have a formulated input on how to "fix" the participation problem, but from my point of view (as an 11 year CTCC participant):

1. Bracket racing sucks. Period. Total deterrent for someone who likes to build and improve a car to a rule set, and try to compete with others who did the same. Bracket racing takes the car building out of the equation, and you end up with zero innovation in the garage. The cars are the same year after year after year .... boring.

2. 3x 20 minute races are good only because the starts are fun. But, 20 minutes is way too short for a good race ... there is just not enough time to bring any strategy into it. I understand it's sprint races .... I just find them too short. 30 or 40 minutes would be MUCH better for a race.

3. Too many classes. 3 classes max, plus something unclassed/unlimited to include everyone. 40 cars in 3 classes would be awesome ... especially if the cars in those classes were to be made competitive in their respective class. Power to weight is easy to police. SPC in Quebec does it just fine (use a roller dyno, not a hub dyno that takes way too much time to setup). Add in a few rules around other aspects of the car that are easy to police, and you can easily support 3 actual classes, not some bullshit brackets (that get adjusted on a whim anyway to suit drivers).

4. GT Challenge ... I did like the 60 minute with optional driver change format ... ran a few of those. We would also run the longer enduro races, but they should not be the regular series races (ie, keep the long enduros as one-offs, not for points). And for sure get rid of the brackets! But, I do see the point of view that it splits the available racers into 2 camps ... very few ran both (it's a lot to as of car and driver) .... so not sure what the answer is here. At the risk of saying something sacrilegious: Get rid of GT Sprints, and make GT Challenge the focus and build a proper series :)

daleyc
08-04-2017, 12:54 PM
I honestly do not think the CSCS crowd is your main draw. Although I would be curious to find out why they said they were not interested. Even though I am sure I know a few reasons why.
Definitely right. Main draw isn't people involved with CSCS. But they have generated interest in their series via social media which is something CASC needs to do as well. Not necessarily the CASC admin but someone (or some people as the work load can be spread out) who has the time and can keep the content relevant and updated.


4. I really hope this is not the position of CASC and or the general consensus of current competitors in the paddock. People not coming out to watch is a major issue. It's great you are so willing to pay more money to continue to race, but not everyone can share that luxury. Many racers rely on sponsorship dollars and no spectators means less sponsor interest and more cost to compete. It's pretty easy to understand. There is a reason NASCAR and F1 drivers make a huge effort to thank the fans. Besides, have you ever raced in front of a big crowd of people? It's fun and I would even argue it makes the racing better.

Agreed. We need these people to come out and watch and hopefully draw from a handful to get involved with CASC in some capacity (volunteer, crew, race). It is definitely an issue.
Between the first CASC race this year and Victoria Day speedfest the spectator numbers were (obviously) very different. This proves that people are still very interested in racing (even just to spectate) if there is an entertaining product on the track. Plus this event is highly publicized.


I asked someone at the end of last year about why he didn't compete in CASC road racing and what stood in his way to making the switch (from CASC OTA as well as CSCS time attack). His response was:

At the end of the day time attack is lower budget, you don't need a licence or much money


I ran casc OTA for years

It's better

I guess I didn't have the budget to build a wheel to wheel car

-----------------
Honestly it's basically lapping day people

The cars are mostly prepped street cars

They wouldn't pass tech for regionals

It would be really difficult to bring over drivers in my opinion

-----------------
I'd be down, but not interested in the added cost of the extra safety equipment (FIA cage, truck and trailer, fire suppression etc)

Gwoody27
08-04-2017, 12:59 PM
I am an OTA regular who has a car that is 99% race ready and have considered joining race for the last few years. I have not for the following reasons:

1. I get more track time at an OTA event than I would at a race event for less $$. Therefore my $$/lap of fun is much less.

2. Almost every lap of OTA can be as fast as I can or want to go. We have very few yellow, black or red flags. Interruptions are rare.

3. I am not risking damage caused by someone else.

4. One set of tires lasts all season so variable costs are lower.

5. There are great people in all disciplines and at this point the OTA crowd is particularly good with a great mix of new and veteran drivers.

6. People help each other and while there are politics they don't get in the way.

7. The OTA competition is strong and there are plenty of top quality drivers who must drive at their maximum potential to win in every class.

8. It takes a lot of volunteers to run a well organized event. OTA needs fewer than race and less safety crews as well. OTA can survive longer at lower cost than can race.

9. OTA visits many tracks incl. the GP track and the series and class winners have to be strong at every one. It is fun learning and driving on a variety of track layouts.

10. Motorsports in general is not being embraced by many young people who view it as environmentally unfriendly, wasteful and costly. Track rental fees are increasing, insurance rates are rising and gas prices don't help. If we don't band together and create a compelling reason to do this vs boating, golf, travelling and other leisure activities, everyone will be complaining.
This has to be the area that CASC-OR needs to provide leadership and lobby for us all.

iamthewheelman
08-04-2017, 01:57 PM
Getting a licence ????
Very simple.
Download the forms, fill them out and send in.
:D

Again, not the main point I was making regarding licencing. Yes it's easier, but how do people know that? THE WEBSITE IS AWFUL! The forms are on it but so what? What do I do with them? Who do I talk to if I have questions? What if I am new and haven't raced before? What if I have been racing all my life just not with CASC? I don't want to take one of those expensive schools if I don't have to.... These are all things a person might ask.

Great its easier, now help the people understand this.

While I don't find the club structure confusing (I've been a member for many years now), I certainly feel it is an antiquated structure to run a race series.

The clubs should be there as a social aspect and localized events in various regions, and a pool to draw volunteers, organizers, and racers from, and to collect a fee to support the organization (CASC-OR). THAT'S IT. The actual racing SERIES should be fully run and organized by the SERIES (in this case, CASC-OR), and the clubs should have nothing to do with it, other than the people. The whole profit sharing thing does not seem to be working, and some clubs idea of how an event is run is totally different from others ... that sucks because there is no consistency, and clubs are forced to abandon running a race weekend due to budget issues.

Keep the clubs local, and for local events, but if you want a cohesive series, run it from a central point. I totally agree that the various race weekends appear to have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Is there anyone actually racing for season points? If they are, there is no visibility of that at all.

I don't really have a formulated input on how to "fix" the participation problem, but from my point of view (as an 11 year CTCC participant):

1. Bracket racing sucks. Period. Total deterrent for someone who likes to build and improve a car to a rule set, and try to compete with others who did the same. Bracket racing takes the car building out of the equation, and you end up with zero innovation in the garage. The cars are the same year after year after year .... boring.

2. 3x 20 minute races are good only because the starts are fun. But, 20 minutes is way too short for a good race ... there is just not enough time to bring any strategy into it. I understand it's sprint races .... I just find them too short. 30 or 40 minutes would be MUCH better for a race.

3. Too many classes. 3 classes max, plus something unclassed/unlimited to include everyone. 40 cars in 3 classes would be awesome ... especially if the cars in those classes were to be made competitive in their respective class. Power to weight is easy to police. SPC in Quebec does it just fine (use a roller dyno, not a hub dyno that takes way too much time to setup). Add in a few rules around other aspects of the car that are easy to police, and you can easily support 3 actual classes, not some bullshit brackets (that get adjusted on a whim anyway to suit drivers).

4. GT Challenge ... I did like the 60 minute with optional driver change format ... ran a few of those. We would also run the longer enduro races, but they should not be the regular series races (ie, keep the long enduros as one-offs, not for points). And for sure get rid of the brackets! But, I do see the point of view that it splits the available racers into 2 camps ... very few ran both (it's a lot to as of car and driver) .... so not sure what the answer is here. At the risk of saying something sacrilegious: Get rid of GT Sprints, and make GT Challenge the focus and build a proper series :)

Thank you! Someone else seems to get it at least.

DavidSim
08-04-2017, 03:32 PM
>>Thank you! Someone else seems to get it at least.<<

Actually I am not sure that you get it, the fact that a lot of people like GT Sprints (it appears to me to be the most popular class at the Club races), that there are other classes that are not brackets that you can compete within that would allow you to develop your car and skills as you elude to.

I've been to CTCC races in the past, although I could afford it I have no interest in that kind of endeavor whatsoever, it would not be any kind of fun for me. If that is your idea of where CASC Club Racing should go then I'd guess a lot of other people would disagree.

CASC Club races have a little something for everyone, it all works for me.

ScotcH
08-04-2017, 04:05 PM
>>Thank you! Someone else seems to get it at least.<<

Actually I am not sure that you get it, the fact that a lot of people like GT Sprints (it appears to me to be the most popular class at the Club races), that there are other classes that are not brackets that you can compete within that would allow you to develop your car and skills as you elude to.

I've been to CTCC races in the past, although I could afford it I have no interest in that kind of endeavor whatsoever, it would not be any kind of fun for me. If that is your idea of where CASC Club Racing should go then I'd guess a lot of other people would disagree.

CASC Club races have a little something for everyone, it all works for me.

David, you use the word "me" a lot ... we get it, you like GT Sprints. Heard you loud and clear.

GT Sprints is popular ... of course. But is it because there simply is no viable alternative at that level? CTCC is out of budget reach for many at the club racing level. Certainly Porsche, WC and CTSCC are as well. What else is there? Lapping, and OTA, but that's not W2W racing. ChumpCar is there, but there are those who like sprint race format, and not just enduros.

I think that if a totally new proper racing series was created in place of GT Sprints at the same level, the same people would still come out ... lose a few, gain a few, maybe gain many more. Why? Because again, it would be the only game in town. You'd have a lot of crying for a year ... but hard to make an omelette without broken eggs (lol).

Sorry, but open wheel and GT1 are not acceptable answers for "don't like brackets, go race there" ...

DavidSim
08-04-2017, 04:36 PM
>>Sorry, but open wheel and GT1 are not acceptable answers for "don't like brackets, go race there" ...<<

Why not ?

>>GT Sprints is popular ... of course. But is it because there simply is no viable alternative at that level?<<

In my opinion it is because most people like it the way it is.

>>What else is there?<<

I don't know and I don't care, because I am happy with CASC Club Racing.

TerryF
08-04-2017, 04:54 PM
Boy, what a load of reading, going where? Most probably nowhere!
Back to page 2 of this thread, as there appears to be no interest shown by anybody re-Lubrico Warranty $1000 race weekend sponsorship and $250 for the marshals, the offer is now withdrawn.

ed caranci
08-04-2017, 05:04 PM
Getting a licence ????
Very simple.
Download the forms, fill them out and send in.
:D

Yup. Sooo easy.

Seriously - I did the OTA thing for a couple years and liked it and they have some awesome drivers but Without that wheel to wheel aspect it didn't feel like "racing". I've now done one GT Sprints weekend last weekend and I'm kicking myself for not doing this years ago. Still can't wipe the grin off my face.

To each our own...

kspencer
08-04-2017, 05:25 PM
Boy, what a load of reading, going where? Most probably nowhere!
Back to page 2 of this thread, as there appears to be no interest shown by anybody re-Lubrico Warranty $1000 race weekend sponsorship and $250 for the marshals, the offer is now withdrawn.



Sad to see this was passed by...

Steven Scala
08-04-2017, 06:10 PM
Boy, what a load of reading, going where? Most probably nowhere!
Back to page 2 of this thread, as there appears to be no interest shown by anybody re-Lubrico Warranty $1000 race weekend sponsorship and $250 for the marshals, the offer is now withdrawn.

Well my $1K offer for an F-body to out-distance our crapwagon Civic at the Shannonville 2h still stands.

DEK
08-04-2017, 10:38 PM
To Iamthewheelman, I just counted, there are at least 12 Regions in SCCA, the head office I don't believe run all the events, these regions do.
(Like we have CASC, BEMC, BARC and OSCC organizing in Ontario.)
Also. I guess brackets are so "terrible" that SCCA have chosen brackets for a new series as a way to get away from onerous,limiting technical rules. Gee CASC have had brackets since the early 1990s.
By the way for those that think racing in the U.S.A. is "wonderfull", don't forget about your time to get to ANY of the U.S. tracks and the Canadian to U.S. dollar exchange ( for entry fees, fuel, food, lodging, Medical Insurance etc. )
I Road Raced for 16 years with a Sanctioning Body that had car preparation rules like SCCA
so I know how onerous it is to prepare a car to those kinds of rules

iamthewheelman
08-05-2017, 02:12 AM
I think it's great people are passionate about club racing and love the way it is currently run here. Honestly, as I have said, I am not trying to crap on the hard work of the region and the people involved. I have been to events to help friends and it's a really nice environment to be in. If the health of the clubs and of CASC as a whole, was in good order, your car counts were up and there wasn't very frequent threads about what can be done to generate fresh interest, then I would probably not give any thought to it.

But this isn't the case, the region is in a tough spot, and questions continue to be asked about what can be done to change it. I posted my opinions on why I choose not to club race, opinions shared by other people. Yes I am being blunt and I am sure I come off like an ass but I am simply stating why I don't get involved and why I don't plan too if things stay the same. To this I am met with great contempt and a general attitude of "GT Sprints are great, it's lots of fun and if you don't like it the way it is, race somewhere else". Hey, someone asked why new people aren't club racing, I am sorry my comments offended people personally, this wasn't my intention.

Maybe there will be a resergence of involvement in club racing in Ontario, people will come out and run GT Sprints and GT Challenge again. You can just chalk it up to a few rough years for what ever reasons may have caused it and I can go stuff my opinion somewhere unpleasant.

Mike Canner
08-05-2017, 11:06 AM
Ok, I think I can summarize this thread so far. The organizing clubs are struggling to survive. There have been many passionate suggestions about how to achieve the goal. All these positions have been spoken of in the past. Terry stepped up and suggested financial perks for attendees. So did Steven. Thank you for the offers, even if they are withdrawn. The passion in the posts from all directions is so evident. What is not happening, at least for the past while, is the translating of that passion into car counts on race days. Having said that there was some positive signs in car count at the BARC event, will it continue without having to resort to excessively long days for those who work all classes running ( volunteers )
p.s. Terry, there are several support volunteer groups, perhaps a year end token amount to each group might also be an option, just saying

Steven Scala
08-05-2017, 03:54 PM
Full disclosure: after a few years 'slumming it in the minors' I'm very proud to have returned to regional race competition with new friends and teammates alongside. All here have an interest in improving the experience here in CASC Ontario's little corner of the FIA and to make it accessible and rewarding, particularly as we all approach a decade that will change motoring as we have come to know it.

To that end, here are some specifics on what I would advise and would gladly help see through in the interests of competition, at least as far as closed-wheel categories are concerned:


Preserve the fundamental formula for closed-wheel sprints as their car counts are overabundantly healthy. The argument can be made for a "GT-Zero" or "GT Exception" entry option for those uninterested in bracket scoring but the run group's otherwise robust and the entrants seem mostly happy, so this is a second or third-order priority. Fix the bigger problems first.


Drop the GT Challenge's baggage, primarily its sometimes problematic Saturday-only format. "Repeal and replace" with an Endurance Trophy mixing six or fewer races with 1, 2, 3, and 4 hour lengths, scheduled as practical for officials, and scored on overall running order with additional 'medal' subcategories that CSCS kids and your next-door neighbour could understand, and which give tech inspectors no new work to do as the taxonomy's either readily apparent to co-competitors on grids, in the pits and in impound, or already detailed in the logbook:

Medals for top RWD, AWD, and FWD finishers.
Medals for Competition, DOT, and/or DOT-R tire categories;
Medals for different chassis constructions:

high-volume Production chassis', typically welded stamped steel unibodies;
fabricated low-volume purpose-built Competition chassis';
low-volume niche Sports chassis', typically bonded/riveted aluminum composite with tubular subframes and/or aluminum or composite bodywork - this may require definition of an over/under build volume but should be easy to solve by entrant consensus if all else fails;
(optional if/when car counts eventually necessitate: a Light category for cars <2500lbs.)

Hard-charger medal per T&S/RaceHero.

We can exclude the overall top race finisher from eligibility for any of the above medals. Don't worry about somebody bringing a 700hp monster, the race lengths will make such cars impractical in the long run, and onlookers will be impressed in the meantime. Besides, the rest of us will have our medals.

Overall year-end trophy can be scored at 1pt per kilometre of race distance completed, a simple spreadsheet calc derived by laps complete x lap length.

Year-end cups for top points scorers in the above medal categories plus...
A Green Award as judged and voted upon by students invited from different post-secondary schools on different weekends to peruse the paddock, ask technical questions, and observe on-track results. They may choose the car with fenders made out of cotton composite or disqualify it for causing toxic spills; they may choose the car they see as potentially having the lowest drag. They may choose the car equipped with a catalytic converter. Whatever, just bring them out to do little more than look at our cars, ask us questions, and give their opinions. They may end up crewing and/or eventually racing in the coming years.


Save for the Green Award I plan to run 2016's Challenge results through the above scoring and prize scheme and post here as a demonstrator, likely in the next 2 weeks after some carprep stuff's taken care of.


Publicize raceweekends by their given names (as opposed to organizing clubs), each featuring a commensurate 'headlining' run group, with a 'poster' image to to reflect it. If we need to commission a graphic artist to do the season's races as a series, then we'll find one who'll do it on the right terms. I'll help look. Consider single-day Saturday schedules for run groups expected to see low turnouts.

DavidSim
08-06-2017, 12:14 AM
Hardly anyone is showing up for GT Challenge, or has shown up the last so many years, what makes you think your suggested format would result in a multitude of competitors ?

I am not aware of a lot of competitors clamouring for 1-2-3-4 hour races at the CASC Club events and subsequently showing up to support such an endeavor.

Doesn't seem realistic to me, convince me I am wrong.

BTW,

given that we are throwing things around here's a suggestion I would then make to help improve the racing at CTMP:

Cut down all the trees in the infield, and bulldoze it all flat enough that you can see as much of the track as possible from any vantage point, in my opinion that would be a great move from a spectator point of view.

Steven Scala
08-06-2017, 03:13 PM
David, not clear whether you're suggesting that the organized boycott among former GT competitors can't be overcome, or whether it's futile to provide race lengths closer to the ones that make driver teams work in ChumpCar's double-eight hour races.

If the latter, are you suggesting a six-hour instead? I would, but I imagine that would face some serious scheduling challenges.

Steven Scala
08-06-2017, 03:13 PM
Also, I <3 trees.

Kcodekid
08-06-2017, 03:37 PM
Organized boycott?




david, not clear whether you're suggesting that the organized boycott among former gt competitors can't be overcome, or whether it's futile to provide race lengths closer to the ones that make driver teams work in chumpcar's double-eight hour races.

If the latter, are you suggesting a six-hour instead? I would, but i imagine that would face some serious scheduling challenges.

shaker351
08-06-2017, 09:54 PM
As always the marshals and all the volunteers did a fantastic job. Their efforts are much appreciated. As for the recovery trucks I can't say the same, never seen it take so long to load a non running but undamaged car onto a flatbed.Pretty sure I could have stuffed it in the trunk of my old Lincoln and removed it faster.
I was actually excited to be at the track because of the number of GT-1 cars that ran sprints was just a little disappointed they didn't all run Sunday.We definitely need more of this it's what most people want to see.

The comments on this thread are just repeats of what I have seen for the past 5 years or so and yet nothing changes and as long as we keep concentrating on the lowest common denominator and entry level racing nothing will ever change except the fact that regional racing will become more and more mundane.

It blew me away when i saw a very generous offer that supported and encouraged sprints go virtually unnoticed and unappreciated by all those that say they are race fans and concerned about the future of our sport.

Comparing oval racing and it's fan base to road racing and it's following is like comparing apples to oranges. With oval racing the fans get to see the whole race and all the action, not really applicable with road racing. Oval racing just by it's nature caters more to the fans where as road racing at the regional level seems to cater to the drivers. Being involved in oval racing for 15 plus years both as a crew member and a crew chief and traveling to tracks all over Ontario I noticed a trend that I believe still holds true today. Tracks that concentrated on the "big cars" and not so much on the entry level cars always seemed to have a much larger more dedicated fan base, and a better car count across the board,it's what most race fans really want to see. It seems to me that if you promote and support the "big cars"the lesser classes just seem to follow.

If I recall correctly a few years ago there was much discussion on power to weight rules for challenge, which I strongly opposed, and this was suppose to do nothing but good for regional racing but now a few short years later i think we all can say with great confidence this action did nothing but lower the car count and diminish the quality of racing. For me the only strategy i see for challenge is how not to fall asleep during their time on the track.

Another detrimental event to regional racing, as I see it anyway, was a certain series to promote entry level (lowest common denominator) and regional racing that ran mostly at T.M.P. And again i see nothing positive for our sport coming from this.More proof to myself anyway, that we are concentrating on the wrong end of our sport.

Don't get me wrong i do understand and appreciate all classes of racers but if we really want things to change for the better maybe it's time we open our eyes and minds to support the end of racing which I am sure most fans and racers would ultimately want to watch and be a part of.

Stephen
08-06-2017, 11:37 PM
Cut down all the trees in the infield, and bulldoze it all flat enough that you can see as much of the track as possible from any vantage point, in my opinion that would be a great move from a spectator point of view.

They've taken too many trees down already, thank you.

Oh, I remember when...:D

Track Mom
08-07-2017, 09:59 AM
They've taken too many trees down already, thank you.

Oh, I remember when...:D

ASide from all the suggestions on changes that could or could not be done to the race series PLEASE don't cut any more trees that is what adds to the tracks special feeling

DavidSim
08-07-2017, 10:28 AM
>>maybe it's time we open our eyes and minds to support the end of racing which I am sure most fans and racers would ultimately want to watch and be a part of. <<

In my mind that means GT Sprints, perhaps with some tweaking to still maintain some bracket classes, as well as some expansion for balls out racing ala GT1 (maybe a couple of classes, one unlimited, and one with weight and HP restrictions). Still run all the cars together though so the program remains the same.

When I spectate at CASC Club races I always spend part of my time at the bridge just before corner 8 to watch the cars/trucks whiz by to hear the thunder of the V8s and amaze at the speed.

And I still think there are too many trees in the infield at CTMP.

shaker351
08-07-2017, 10:44 AM
>>maybe it's time we open our eyes and minds to support the end of racing which I am sure most fans and racers would ultimately want to watch and be a part of. <<

In my mind that means GT Sprints, perhaps with some tweaking to still maintain some bracket classes, as well as some expansion for balls out racing ala GT1 (maybe a couple of classes, one unlimited, and one with weight and HP restrictions). When I spectate at CASC Club races I always spend part of my time at the bridge just before corner 8 to watch the cars/trucks whiz by to hear the thunder of the V8s and amaze at the speed.

And I still think there are too many trees in the infield at CTMP.

if you really think about it most racing is bracket racing. But when any given group gets a big enough car count it becomes it's own class or series. Sorry but I believe we need to keep as many trees as possible. With the popularity of electric cars increasing everyday we will need them to filter the dirty air created by the production of these vehicles and the materials to build them.Electric cars are far from green Sorry a little off topic I know LOL

Stephen
08-07-2017, 12:26 PM
And I still think there are too many trees in the infield at CTMP.

You do know what the "P" stands for in CTMP, right? :rolleyes:

DavidSim
08-07-2017, 07:07 PM
>>But when any given group gets a big enough car count it becomes it's own class or series.<<

I am not advocating creating any new classes, just updating the GT Sprints class we already have if you want change (still keeping sufficient bracket classes though). And I am not advocating removing any of the other current classes either other than GT Challenge (if people don't smarten up and support it), we still need the Formula classes too (e.g. 1600, 1200, etc., etc.) and the rest (that just made me think of an Amy Winehouse song).

>>You do know what the "P" stands for in CTMP, right?<<

Yes indeed, perhaps there is a compromise somewhere, perhaps not.

Mike Canner
08-07-2017, 08:25 PM
I really think we have lost the point of this thread. We have gone from hope we have a good event, to a review of the event, to how to do the next event to how to landscape a property none of us own.

DEK
08-07-2017, 11:56 PM
To Terry F. Why would you withdraw your offer? There is NO CASC Race at CTMP until
Sept 16/17. 6 1/2 weeks from now. That lots of time for you and the organizing Club (BEMC) to work out a way to put the $$$$ you offered into a pot to give away to the GT Sprints
entrants. eg something like some of the $1000 goes as "prize" money to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place class finishers of Sunday's second race. (maybe a total of $750), and the other $250 goes to the competitor with the highest finishes in the 3 races of the weekend and class size can be used as a tie breaker . I can't see a way to divvy the $1000 among all competitors. $1000 divided equally among the 43 GT sprint competitors from the BARC weekend is $23 eack and I think something more significant should go to those on the podium.
Please Terry, let me help to change your mind.
DAVE KING
P.S. Terry, it was GREAT to see you at the track.

Doug Stark
08-08-2017, 01:30 AM
So, to the people complaining about the long days.... !!

Note: Its NOT complaining. Its sending a MESSAGE. People are still not getting it. :mad:

You stand out on a corner for 10 or more hours on your feet in whatever weather we get. See how your knees feel at the end of the day let alone two days and have to go to work on Monday. You think we all wear catheters because with one person on station for an enduro, we may need one!:eek:

You may not like it but Mike IS correct - BARC has a horrible reputation with workers and for good reasons. People ARE voting with their feet and finding other things they can do instead. We're not comfy in a tower, or in a truck with aircon or heat, or under a tent in the paddock or near a washroom. Try being a female marshal at 5C all day!! We don't get to come in at lunch and warm up or dry off - were stuck where we are all day.

Let me understand something: You are saying that you can't raise race fees to make up the financial shortfall of poor car counts so instead, the marshals have to stay on track for longer hours (11+) so that you don't lose money?:rolleyes:

How many racers have a family member that is a marshal? How many *want* their family members to marshal? None. Marshal retention? HA! Don't give me a bloody gym bag - get me off the corner at 5PM! Enduro's suck at the end of the day. Sorry but they do. We are shot by then and you want *another* couple of hours out of us? Do them in the morning before lunch. Don't do them after dinner when I'm at 6 trying to see cars coming up from 5C in low lighting and tired eyes. I'm NOT looking forward to BEMC's sundown race at all in mid Sept when its even darker earlier. People are putting all these hours on race engines and burning up fuel and rubber and for what? After an hour many are just tooling around trying to finish. Its jumped the shark. Really.

I recall the time some smart alec CASC President decided that every driver had to spend one day in the season flagging? Remember that? Going way back here. It was funny and sad at the same time. Sad that they felt abused and funny that they felt abused! :D You were like kids that had to stay after class because someone threw chalk at the blackboard.

But there may come a time where your family members and fellow racers (when not on track) may ALL have to spend time flagging as we will have long decided to call time...

Really, really think about 5:00PM finishes. Please.

Morrow
08-08-2017, 12:29 PM
Well said Doug
When I began VOLUNTEERING in 2003 9 am start times were the norm, any earlier was a special exception, 5 pm end time was the goal. Pro weekends were the exeption but we knew the days would be longer and prepared ourselves for it. BARC unfortunately does have a bad rap for their treatment of volunteers, the numbers who come out to volunteer for their events speaks for itself. People ask me why I do very little Marshalling with MMS anymore... quite simply all of the days have become too long. I have other commitments, and family obligations, and have to go to work Monday morning. Spending 12 hours plus trackside doesnt fit with that.

One last point, Anyone know how many corners have access to washrooms?

Three out of the twelve (c3, c5 and c10) and if you are across track at the flagging position at c3 then you are SOL. For some reason the track refuses to provide ports-potties on the corners. How many of you go from 7:40 am (morning meeting time) to 7:30 pm without having a bio break?

So I suppose I am one of those people DEK labels as complaining. I guess I keep quiet, smile and not VOLUNTEER my time, as obviously you don't get it

Mike Canner
08-08-2017, 05:59 PM
?

So I suppose I am one of those people DEK labels as complaining. I guess I keep quiet, smile and not VOLUNTEER my time, as obviously you don't get it

But did you notice the heartfelt appeal for the $$, only for the racers part that was generously offered earlier in the thread. Money talks I guess, volunteers...........

Steven Scala
08-08-2017, 06:52 PM
You're right, Mike. Insofar as my $1K Shannonville 2hr challenge to Camaro owners is concerned, if they can afford the brakes + tires those beasts consume then I guess they don't need my money either. So if they beat our Civic then I'll give the $1K to the WRRC instead, unless anyone's got any better ideas. ✊

Mike Canner
08-08-2017, 07:10 PM
You're right, Mike. Insofar as my $1K Shannonville 2hr challenge to Camaro owners is concerned, if they can afford the brakes + tires those beasts consume then I guess they don't need my money either. So if they beat our Civic then I'll give the $1K to the WRRC instead, unless anyone's got any better ideas. ✊

Now I know how hard they would have to work to beat the Civic, maybe to be fair split it 50/50 so the racers aren't left out.;)

DEK
08-08-2017, 07:23 PM
To Mike C. Although I haven't raced for many years, I still considered myself part of the CASC Race Driver Community. I have been a volunteer Official at CASC events since at least
1985. Also I am currently a CASC Chief Official.
I posted what I did to Terry Fletcher as I "presumed" I could deal with any fall out from the drivers. I thought it was clear that what I was posting were MY ideas and I was NOT representing the drivers or BEMC.
I never expected to get flack from another group of Volunteers.

Mike Canner
08-08-2017, 08:19 PM
Mr King;
Seems everybody knows who you are and maybe that is part of the push back. It is very difficult to be a senior member of the CASC, hosts of this forum, post as that senior person in different threads and then attempt to post as an everyday member in this thread. Even your first post, about being constructive ideas only being of use came across as an executive member . What we, as a group of volunteers have said in many different ways is we are troubled by the events as they unfolded. What seems to be missing might be some tone of empathy from a senior "power that be". So when there is a financial offer put on the table with a variety of options and the only option spoken to from a senior executive, is for the racers , the tone is set about priority. I am speaking for myself, as are the other "volunteers" who have posted. Perception is reality and we have posted about our perceptions.

Mike H
08-08-2017, 09:17 PM
So, to the people complaining about the long days.... The days are LONG because the Clubs must invite enough race groups to PAY the expenses of a Regional weekend
If you have CONSTRUCTIVE ideas on how to have shorter days and enough grids to pay the
bill, please contact any member of the BARC organizing team. Names are on the Supplemental Regulations. Planning for next year has already started in the discussion
stage. !

As one of the long time volunteers present at the Saturday of the BARC weekend, I will again state categorically that very few of our members are willing or able to stand in the same location on a corner for 11+ hours. We especially resent first hearing about that timeline at our 7:30 morning meeting.
Frankly I don't care why the days are long and don't feel it is our role to provide CONSTRUCTIVE ideas for shortening the day other than to tell you we WILL NOT CONTINUE TO STAND ON THE CORNERS FOR 11+ HOURS for a Regional Race Weekend.

Dr.Smooth
08-09-2017, 12:57 AM
I'm NOT looking forward to BEMC's sundown race at all in mid Sept when its even darker earlier.

If there ever was a case for revamping the CASC website, and standardizing things from club to club this, is it. I follow CASC racing pretty closely. Yet I had no idea the race length or format for the enduro in September, Chance for some night racing at Canadian Tire Motorsports Park... Hell Yeah!! Everything's Right About The Lights!!!

Dr.Smooth
08-09-2017, 01:13 AM
Also, when I type CASC Road Racing Schedule into google. After several clicks, I am prompted to open a attachment...

What The F. Just show me see the bloody schedule. I don't want to open a attachment that my browser doesn't necessarily support. I don't want to have to download something to see the schedule, it should be on the main (first) road racing page.

I want to post on social media to some friends about the Sundowner/night/ twilight/I don't know, 3 hour race that I just found out about. To encourage them to attend because Night racing at CTMP Mosport as they know it is awesome...

Track Mom
08-10-2017, 04:50 PM
Im sorry but I have to wade into this... Terry made an amazing offer to BOTH drivers and volunteers and I'm sorry someone dropped the ball and didn;t jump at it. Thanks Terry the thought was appreciated. As for the BARC schedule I posted the schedule on the 24th of July and it poped right up (no download needed) As head of the grid I always check the schedule as far ahead as they are posted (and yes I know some just aren't available) but looked at Saturdays races and practices I knew it was going to be a very long day and prepared accordinglly Yup the ball was seriously dropped water and a brake should have been provided to the marshals AND all volunteers before the enduro . AS for standing outside yes we on the grid have access to toilets and many time have been "caught" with our pant down cause cars coming and going from the grid....but although pits are close to us they have a tough time just as you all do.(not trying to put your complaints down just pointing out that each group has problems) PLEASE lets not use this thread as a bashing session for a particular race group, volunteer group or club... Lets pull together as a team and make a difference.

TerryF
08-11-2017, 05:13 PM
Thanks Dave (DEK) and Track Mom for your comments and it felt good to be back at the track, healing nicely but slowly thank you. Doubt if I will be out again this year, the broken ribs are taking forever to heal and be pain free. I stand firm on my decision to withdraw the financial donation to the sport due to lack of interest. I really thought a Club or someone at CASC would have contacted me, but nobody did. Perhaps this is an indication of why our entry numbers are down, apathy everywhere.
The Clubs and CASC need to work together, the drivers are obviously not going to solve it. I can't believe the amount of pro-Challenge support talk there is on the Forum, they talk the talk but don't walk the walk!!!! Show me don't tell me. The Sprints voice has been heard loud and clear by their actions not flakey words.
Brainstorming 'Think Tank' meetings need to be arranged and invite only active racers, Club and CASC representation, no wanabee's.
This is a Club and CASC initiative that needs to happen. All this 'hot air' on the Forum is not helpful. The problem is everybody's and will not solve itself.

Steven Scala
08-11-2017, 06:00 PM
If we consult only the racers that are currently coming out, what are the odds of increasing car counts to include those currently staying at home?

Or is the intention just to increase the division's reliance on a single run group?

"Fix the biggest problems first." - Ron Dennis

TerryF
08-11-2017, 08:23 PM
Steven, I am trying to do something, and here again you are criticizing.
Why don't you come up with something positive in a few words, and please make it brief, I am tired of reading saga's.
You know 'less is more'.

DEK
08-12-2017, 02:06 PM
Terry, I don't know if you've noticed but very few CASC officials monitor and post on the
FORUM. Ray A. and I are the only 2 I can immediately think of.
Did you make your offer known to the CASC office or the Race Director?

Steven Scala
08-12-2017, 02:11 PM
I'll show my notes. Draft example of 2017-season endurance finishers sorted by distance, with car typologies to indicate race-end and season-end medal opportunities beyond just the overall trophy.

Proposed points formula's simply kms raced + 10-6-4-3-2-1 bonus for finishing order, another for hard-charger. Bonus for top average speed would be nice but racehero doesn't show it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHC1tnjXoAAvBDu.jpg:large

TerryF
08-13-2017, 07:38 PM
:confused:No Dave I didn't. It shocks me that Ray and yourself appear to be the only CASC representatives who monitor the Forum.
Did I mention apathy in a previous post? No wonder we can't solve the problem.