And the nightmare continues... [Archive] - CASC Ontario Region Message Forums

Greg F

09-12-2004, 06:37 PM

Well, there's not much point in hiding anymore since they've found me...

As some of you know, my car was rear-ended on a public road a short while back. The car has since been fixed, but my insurance agent contacted me, saying that he'd received an e-mail from his underwriting department indicating that they believed my car was used for Solo 2.

Fully expecting my policy to be cancelled, I elected to miss the Ottawa Solo 2 event. Having heard nothing further, I decided it was safe to drive in the Peterborough event, even though there was obviously a lot on my mind.

Last week I received another call from my agent. I decided to face the music, rather than be charged with providing false information.

I confirmed that my car has been used for Solo 2 competition for about two years now, and was told that my policy will not be renewed in January if I continue to participate in Solo 2.

When I asked how they got such information about my involvement in Solo 2, my agent said my name had appeared in a newspaper article a while back. He told me the article said I was ranked 7th or 8th in Ontario. If anyone knows of this article, please let me know.

I asked if I could sign a waiver to acknowledge that I was not covered in the event of a mishap while on a Solo 2 course. My agent said any such document would not stand up in court, and they'd still be liable for injury anyway, so they wouldn't give me the option.

My only recourse now, it seems, is to run a trailered car for next year, or to obtain Facility coverage.

Since all policies are the same in Ontario, it appears that using a street car for Solo 2 is a violation of the policy regardless of insurance provider.

My agent told me that they, State Farm, would be able to provide Facility insurance for me, with the exact same coverage that I have now. The only difference is that the rate would be very high, but supposedly "not too bad if you have no speeding tickets" etc.

Well, I have only one ticket, but it's not for speeding. It's for not having the renewed insurance card on me.

I'd love to explain to them (the underwriting department) what exactly Solo 2 is, but I cannot see any way to not expose everyone here to my same predicament.

So, here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to continue to run in E/SP and hopefully make the remaining two races (may as well call them that now!) some very exciting battles to remember. After that, I'll see what happens.

Greg Farrell

Wedge

09-12-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Greg F

I asked if I could sign a waiver to acknowledge that I was not covered in the event of a mishap while on a Solo 2 course. My agent said any such document would not stand up in court, and they'd still be liable for injury anyway, so they wouldn't give me the option.

You know what? I just realized something. The reason why no insurance company is willing to insure a car used for Solo 2, or rally, or any competition, is for that exact reason. They are still liable in the event that an injury occurs.

So, it seems to me, that all we have to do is have such a document fashioned that WILL remove our insurer from any liability during competition, which WILL stand up in court.

If we could get a lawyer that would help us put such a document together. Then get it stamped by whatever government dude, or judge or whoever it needs to be approved by. Maybe then the insurance company's would listen to us.

It doesn't seem that hard to me. We'll be covered on the roads by our own insurance companies. And during competition we're covered by the event insurance (liability at least). So there's no reason I can think of for such a request to be denied...

Even if, let's say worst case scenario: The law needs to be changed before such a waiver could be made possible. We're only talking about a provincial law, that makes it a bit easier. If we rallied together everyone in Ontario, that's ever entered a Solo 1, Solo 2, Lapping day, Performance Rally, or even a performance driving school that uses their own car, and put a petition together.
I'm sure there would be enough sway to make it happen!

ajay

09-12-2004, 07:42 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wedge
[B]You know what? I just realized something. The reason why no insurance company is willing to insure a car used for Solo 2, or rally, or any competition, is for that exact reason. They are still liable in the event that an injury occurs.

If the car insurance companies are liable at the events why does the sponsering club need liability insurance ?
I think the 2 insurance groups need to have a discussion about this and let us know the "real" storey.

Do It Sidewayz

09-12-2004, 07:44 PM

Man....i know exactly how you feel

I've spent the entire summer prepping a car for Performance Rallying..Now i can't get insurance on the car!!!

We've been told everything under the sun. "it's a commerical car", "no we don't insure ATV vehicles", "CLICK!"

If we were to sign some type of waiver, them maybe. They do need to realise that whatever happens on the track/stage is covered under the event insurance, which every entry pays for. Once that clock starts, you are now under event insurance. So if you were to go off into a crowd of spectators, and kill a couple people, the Event insurance is who they go after, your car insurance company won't have to pay a red cent.

Their response to this is "insurance cannot be turned on and off at will"

So yeah..were about to throw an entires summer of worth of effort, money, and time into something which SHOULD be an open close case.

it's obviously not a minor issue as every Solo1, Solo2, Performance Rally, TSD Rally, and RallyX car is theoretically against their regulations.

Also...theoretically....Facility "can't" insure you also, as they do go by the exact same insurance policy guidelines. Only difference for facility is they charge you more

J.C.

09-12-2004, 08:06 PM

We need government run insurance.

Wedge

09-12-2004, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz

it's obviously not a minor issue as every Solo1, Solo2, Performance Rally, TSD Rally, and RallyX car is theoretically against their regulations.

Don't count TSD Rally in that list. I specifically left that out of my first post because that's a whole other beast entirely! For that, you DO need you're regular insurance company in addition to the event insurance, because the events are run on open, public roads.

Also...theoretically....Facility "can't" insure you also, as they do go by the exact same insurance policy guidelines. Only difference for facility is they charge you more

Well, the other difference is that generally, facility won't ask any questions about modifications, or competition or whatever. Most other insurers are far more interested in that sort of information.

Do It Sidewayz

09-12-2004, 08:12 PM

the is...they are concerned about Timed events.

TSD Rally is a Timed Event

wpfri

09-13-2004, 01:57 AM

Guys we have all this worked out,stay tuned.I will be speaking at the party about this.There is hope for everyone including caged Rally cars.

William

FastFox

09-13-2004, 06:16 AM

I hope your right, William. I am not happy with all this insurance bs. And with all this stuff going on, I am also not happy that when I do a google search on myself the results of the regional events show up.

Will I be in the same boat as Greg in the spring when my renewal is due? No tickets, no claims for over 15yrs and I will be thrown into facility? :confused: That's just not right. :mad:

CobraStang

09-13-2004, 08:02 AM

Insurance BS will be the death of grassroots autosports in Ontario.

I don't know what you're working on, Bill. But I sure hope you're successful. You da man!

Wedge

09-13-2004, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by wpfri
Guys we have all this worked out,stay tuned.I will be speaking at the party about this.There is hope for everyone including caged Rally cars.

William

William, if you weren't already, you are now officially my God!

DareBee

09-13-2004, 08:27 AM

^^^^ Ditto Will

gatherer

09-13-2004, 08:39 AM

I think William will be raised to the status of God once this happens....

personally for my insurance they haven't asked so I haven't told them... but I was informed when I got the insurance that I could modify the car just that no after market parts would be covered. so they would be replaced with stock units... I'm cool with that... they have been easy to deal with....

I googled my name and 60,700 results came up and none dealt with autocross on the first 4 pages so I think I'm safe there....

Wedge

09-13-2004, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by gatherer
personally for my insurance they haven't asked so I haven't told them... but I was informed when I got the insurance that I could modify the car just that no after market parts would be covered. so they would be replaced with stock units... I'm cool with that... they have been easy to deal with....

Yeah, but just wait til they find out about the Rollbar!

Logan

09-13-2004, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by Greg F
When I asked how they got such information about my involvement in Solo 2, my agent said my name had appeared in a newspaper article a while back. He told me the article said I was ranked 7th or 8th in Ontario.

This tells me that your insurance company is paying people to read the newspaper and cross reference any names they see to their insurance database!

FastFox

09-13-2004, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by gatherer

I googled my name and 60,700 results came up and none dealt with autocross on the first 4 pages so I think I'm safe there....

Must be lots of Jason Drummonds out there.:p

For me - 167 results, first two are the results of the regionals :( - maybe I should change my last name to Smith.

wpfri

09-13-2004, 09:22 AM

Yes, after alot of lawyers work we are able to come up with reasonable Motorsport insurance coverage.The cars have to meet a few restrictions.I will give you a short preview.

Must pass safety cert.
Must pass clean air if needed
Must have manditory tracking device for theft.
A photo of all modifications and proper bills for the Items covered.
Standard Ins regulations will apply to drinking and driving,suspended liciences etc.
Your rate will be based on your driving history not your cars modifications for liability.
Yes thats right we have found coverage which will include fire and theft as well.
We are setting this up as a very large group policy which can cover everything,race trailers,race cars,regular cars,seadoos,boats,atv's,hard to insure stuff as well as regular.

For a basic 1,000,000 liability policy which has no limits on car modifications as long as you can provide documents for safety and clean air should run around 1,500 dollars yearly.

The Insurance will also include a specific Motorsport legal package which will be able to provide you with X Copper protection just incase you get pulled over or harassed by the police with that modified car.

There is a specific Lawyer in Canada that deals with this issue country wide.He is a racer who is an X cop and an automotive lawyer.

His reputation is such that when the police hear he is defending the issue at hand,the police just drop the charges or don't show up.How sweet is that.

Remember people, there is massive power in numbers.

William

haniforama

09-13-2004, 09:32 AM

I'll take 2 please and thank you :D

wpfri

09-13-2004, 09:39 AM

And yes, we will be able to insure Rally cars legally.

William

gatherer

09-13-2004, 09:41 AM

William .... you are a god....

just let me know where to sign up...

wpfri

09-13-2004, 09:49 AM

We are working with the I.B.C right now on the final details and we should be in position to start policies around December 04.

I will talk more at the party.As It stands right now we have the coverage but the legal work is just never ending.Enough red tape to wrap the globe a few hundred times.

William

Keith-02Accord

09-13-2004, 09:55 AM

William, u rool the skool!!!

I can't wait to hear about it. I must say, I'm rather shocked that the IBC has stepped up.

wpfri

09-13-2004, 10:05 AM

Never would the IBC help out.Anything but.We have to follow a bunch of silly guidelines that have been formed by the Big Boys to keep the little guys at bay.

William

gatherer

09-13-2004, 10:09 AM

will this insurance offer monthly payment plans? :p

wpfri

09-13-2004, 10:15 AM

NO.Sorry Jason.Most insurance companies let an outside financial firm handle that and I have not checked into It yet.For the first year I would say no but It is something we have to consider.

We have the policy in place, ready to go.We are working on the final details for the underwriters and our own lawyers.

William

tanney

09-13-2004, 10:45 AM

For the record, I had a lengthly conversation with an insurance broker on Saturday.

If your insurance company DROPS your insurance (does not include non renewal) for tickets, motorsport activities of claims, contact the insurance bural (sp) of Canada immediately as the insurance company is breaking the law. They can choose not to renew your insurance but they cannot cancel it. Now, lying to them about mods is a different story........

Apperently the best companies to be with are Dominion Group, Pilot and ING. The worst...... STATE FARM!

In Greg's case they are not breaking the law, but that doesn't mean they are not total dickheads...... (not to mention anal and greedy)

Keith-02Accord

09-13-2004, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by tanney
The worst...... STATE FARM!

I will second that, and my parents will third it! They are by far the absolute worst of the worst.

wpfri

09-13-2004, 11:08 AM

Wes is 100% correct on this.Just try to get insurance If your current insurer drops you.4 to 500% increase for new insurance.

If you get into a accident or have a theft claim without stating the current condition of the modified car.You are Not Covered.Denied,Denied,DENIED.

William

gatherer

09-13-2004, 11:16 AM

so if State farm is the worst why are they the biggest... just doesn't make any sense to me. (I'm not with them)

we should be pulling all business from them and get family and friends to pull business fromt hem too... till they smarten up

thekid

09-13-2004, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by wpfri
Wes is 100% correct on this.Just try to get insurance If your current insurer drops you.4 to 500% increase for new insurance.

If you get into a accident or have a theft claim without stating the current condition of the modified car.You are Not Covered.Denied,Denied,DENIED.

William

I do believe that this again differs than if your company chooses not to renew you. To get around the renewal problem, simply start shopping around for a new company now, and just make the switch on your anniversary date, this would mean you left, and you never gave them the opportunity to not renew your policy.

wpfri

09-13-2004, 11:22 AM

Have you tried to change Insurance companies.There is a long list of questions,car pictures and a total car inspection.If your car is modified.Forget It,Mention Solo,they just laugh!!!

William

thekid

09-13-2004, 11:36 AM

This is true, but I changed quite easily, simply stating that the new companies rates were better, and really there were no other questions asked. I was upfront with my record about tickets. My car is stock, and I didn't SOLO at the time I changed companies so these weren't issues.

XDRacer

09-13-2004, 11:44 AM

I like the sound of this! I'd definitely switch to a motorsports friendly company. Of course I do have 2 speeding tickets. The only nice part of my insurance company, Wawanesa, is they never bother to check my record, ever.

Do It Sidewayz

09-13-2004, 12:41 PM

William, that sounds awesome.

now...we do need to get something worked out for Tall Pines, we have sponsors lined up, which want/need to see us at Tall Pines.

wpfri

09-13-2004, 01:13 PM

I just got off the phone of Jeff Hagan the V.P of Rally and we are going to talk about this a bit more after the 22 of Sept.

Like I told you guys.We have power in numbers and we have about 1,000 people ready to join right now.

What you guys could do for me is post what we are trying to do at every site you know of.This would be a big help.

When you post please let us know where you posted at sales@wpfri.com

William

slick

09-13-2004, 01:20 PM

I must say that I am very impressed William.

Many people talk about ideas, proposals and solutions to this current insurance crisis, but you have come through in spades. I bow my hat to you.

I am one of the unfortunates that got the State Farm letter of non-renewal this year, though not about racing (been inactive for last few years) but for tickets.
Was pretty surprised as some of my tickets had been on there for over 2 years. If they waited 4 more months, I would have been down to 2 and probably not an issue.

I managed to switch to Echelon (facility insurer) and am paying way less than I was with State Farm, albeit without collision coverage. They quoted me with collision coverage and it was still cheaper by a few bucks though. I'm glad I switched regardless, as I'm not giving that company any more of my money.

When I pick up a new ride for Solo1/2 next spring, I will definitely be passing my insurance business to this new plan of yours, fully supporting your efforts to the motorsports community.

Cheers,

miataboi

09-13-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by wpfri
I just got off the phone of Jeff Hagan the V.P of Rally and we are going to talk about this a bit more after the 22 of Sept.

Like I told you guys.We have power in numbers and we have about 1,000 people ready to join right now.

What you guys could do for me is post what we are trying to do at every site you know of.This would be a big help.

When you post please let us know where you posted at sales@wpfri.com

William

...remembering that ONE bad apple... can ruin it for all...
Careful where you post it... as it just takes one bad incident or fraud to put us all back to square one... or worse... and there is no need to bring TOO much attention to this effort outside of "us" and the motorsport community... *****S / STREET-"RACERS" NEED NOT APPLY!!!

Keith-02Accord

09-13-2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by slick
I must say that I am very impressed William.
I managed to switch to Echelon (facility insurer) and am paying way less than I was with State Farm, albeit without collision coverage. They quoted me with collision coverage and it was still cheaper by a few bucks though. I'm glad I switched regardless, as I'm not giving that company any more of my money.

Cheers,

Let me get this straight, you switched from regular insurance at State Farm to a facility insurance provider and your rates went down? Unbelievable!

Just proves what a rip-off State Farm is.

Logan

09-13-2004, 01:29 PM

William,
Are you serious that you want everybody to sign up with this new insurer? If we start to post this on all the boards we go to, you are going to get the "***** yahoo's" signing up too.
Do you want that? Do you care?
Is CASC membership going to be required to use this insurer? What about a minimum time as a member required? This should help filter out the yahoo's....
Just some thoughts...

wpfri

09-13-2004, 01:42 PM

The more people the cheaper.Don't worry about the *****s,Bling,Bling crowd.They won't like the policy.Fraud need not apply.I have that covered and then some.
We have a X cop that will be on staff that will investigate thefts and all cars must have a very specific theft device installed that even If you have the keys you cannot steal the car.

If the car moves 5 feet at any time without the transponder a special team responds at that second to find the car.All X coppers involved in this program and in 3 years there has not been 1 legit theft reported.READ NO CLAIMS FOR THEFT!

William

gatherer

09-13-2004, 01:48 PM

William will you give a list of alarm systems/track systems to cjhoose from before this insurance comes out so that those interested can get it installed and ready to go before hand

slick

09-13-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Keith-02Accord
Let me get this straight, you switched from regular insurance at State Farm to a facility insurance provider and your rates went down? Unbelievable!

Just proves what a rip-off State Farm is.

Yep. Exactly. Facility insurance was actually cheaper!

wpfri

09-13-2004, 02:02 PM

Yes, you will have to have this system to sign up for the program.

We are talking about price because we are talking about 3,000 units and 3,000 installs.Power in numbers.

William

RacerRick

09-13-2004, 02:04 PM

So, if I get this right...its 1500 for the car for a year, per car.

Plus the cost of the tracking device...do we know what the cost is for that? And how does towing the car on a trailer affect the tracking?

Have the rates for tow rigs been figured out yet?

And has anyone figure out how to use the tracker for lap times yet? :D

Logan

09-13-2004, 02:04 PM

hmm
I'm sure you've thought about it, but in case you haven't: maybe have a package signup and install of the boomerang like system.

Logan

09-13-2004, 02:05 PM

Another thought:
Will this be under the name:
"Williams Performance Insurance"
?????
:D :D :D

wpfri

09-13-2004, 02:08 PM

NO,We are going to be calling It Motorsport Insurance Group of Canada.

William

gatherer

09-13-2004, 02:11 PM

I like William's Performance insurance.... but that other name works well too

wpfri

09-13-2004, 02:12 PM

Once this is off the ground we are going to go after the Motorsport shop insurance which is just out of sight.We can have all of motorsport under one roof policy.This is not very hard to do as long as we keep Fraud OUT!!!!

William

RacerRick

09-13-2004, 03:01 PM

William da man!

IanO

09-13-2004, 03:28 PM

I have some friends in the states that are in what is basically an insurance co-op. They pay their premiums based on whatever the acturial tables determine is fair but at the end of the year they get money refunded that didn't go to pay out claims and expenses. I believe it's with AAA.

Not sure if something like that would work within the insurance regulations that companies need to abide by here in Ontario, but if it would that would seem to be the most direct path to a fair premium that I can see.

wpfri

09-13-2004, 03:34 PM

Thats what we are doing.Non Profit.No Claims and you get money back.This does 2 things.If anyone thinks of making a false claim,they better leave the country or get beheaded by the group.

2nd thing is we have a real voting group on decisions.

William

Greg F

09-13-2004, 06:56 PM

William, thanks again for being an exemplary Canadian. Have the Cone Crunchers interviewed you yet for Person of the Year? :D

holliko

09-13-2004, 07:32 PM

I assume this is only for the racing vehicle in the family..... So how do insurance companies look at vehicles that are insured by two different companies??? Will they not ask questions?? Can they find out that you have other insurance (motorsport)???? Does it matter???? Clear as mud.....

Anyways your the man......

Robert

holliko

09-13-2004, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by FastFox
Must be lots of Jason Drummonds out there.:p

For me - 167 results, first two are the results of the regionals :( - maybe I should change my last name to Smith.

Try googling on "Your Name and car type"... I tried it with various names of people who run Solo and you get results for all.. (5 people tested hits on all).......

example: jason drummond honda

gatherer

09-13-2004, 08:15 PM

Rob thats interesting never tried that.... I'll have too

With "Jason Drummond Civic" in the search I get 970 results with Event 2 results being the top find in Google and my website being the 4th....

With "Jason Drummond Honda" in the search I get 710 results and event 2 still comes up as number 1 my website moves to number 8 on the list

With "Jason Drummond Honda civic" in the search I get 205 results and event 2 still comes up as number 1 my website moves to number 7 on the list and the Besttimes.pdf file for event 1 moves to number 6 on the list (I don't know why since that was such a poor event for me)

but in the end all the other results should confuse the issue so many results pages with Drummond on them come up.. I know I appear but so do a dozen other racers with the name Drummond... I think without serious research I won't be found.... but yes I will jump ship and join William's company as soon as it is formed...

on another note I think the event 2 results must have been submitted to google or something they seem to pop up at the top quite often is it possible to change the link slighty so that it's a dead link for google but still viewable by everyone...

craig hamm

09-13-2004, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by ajay
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wedge
[B]
If the car insurance companies are liable at the events why does the sponsering club need liability insurance ?

Event insurance protects organisers from being personally sued in case of a claim. A car goes off the track, or a part flys into the crowd, kills somebody. Instead of Mr. Organiser getting personally sued, the event insurance kicks in. Of course, outright negligence and lack of due diligence in assuring safety of all people is a different matter, but I think the indivudual is still buffered by the policy. It also protects 'additionally insured' such as the restaurant that a road rally may be hosted out of etc.

craig hamm

09-13-2004, 08:31 PM

William, just wondering why I'd be interested in theft insurance on my 92 Golf, sans mods, sans bling, or a winter rally beater. (you're still God, however)

wpfri

09-13-2004, 08:39 PM

It is a seperate binder for the cars that need It.I spoke to Jeff today and he is excited to say the least.

We have been working on this for a while.We are at the final stages of the policy and just working out the FRAUD end of this so It does not fold as soon as It starts.

William

Moose

09-13-2004, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by wpfri
Yes, after alot of lawyers work we are able to come up with reasonable Motorsport insurance coverage.The cars have to meet a few restrictions.I will give you a short preview.

Must pass safety cert.
Must pass clean air if needed
Must have manditory tracking device for theft.
A photo of all modifications and proper bills for the Items covered.
Standard Ins regulations will apply to drinking and driving,suspended liciences etc.
Your rate will be based on your driving history not your cars modifications for liability.
Yes thats right we have found coverage which will include fire and theft as well.
We are setting this up as a very large group policy which can cover everything,race trailers,race cars,regular cars,seadoos,boats,atv's,hard to insure stuff as well as regular.

For a basic 1,000,000 liability policy which has no limits on car modifications as long as you can provide documents for safety and clean air should run around 1,500 dollars yearly.

The Insurance will also include a specific Motorsport legal package which will be able to provide you with X Copper protection just incase you get pulled over or harassed by the police with that modified car.

There is a specific Lawyer in Canada that deals with this issue country wide.He is a racer who is an X cop and an automotive lawyer.

His reputation is such that when the police hear he is defending the issue at hand,the police just drop the charges or don't show up.How sweet is that.

Remember people, there is massive power in numbers.

William

William ...THANKS !!!

Thanks for taking the time ...!

Thanks for Giving a S**T ... !

Thanks for Hiring and paying for the lawers to make it happen !

And Last but not least Thanks for supporting this sport in Ontario !

Quick question ... You state that part of the policy will be "A photo of all modifications and proper bills for the Items covered"

Many of us to keep costs down, by buying used parts ... this no receipts ... How are we going to be covered .... in my case more than 3/4 of the parts on my car are used, with no receipts

If my suspension (coil-overs) get stolen ... then I would be out about $1200 in cash, but the new replacement would be $2000+ as I probably could not find anthoer set used in a reasonable period of time... Is there / will there be an allowance for an apprasal of the cars worth, independant of receipts ???

Cheers

Moose

Logan

09-13-2004, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by holliko
Try googling on "Your Name and car type"... I tried it with various names of people who run Solo and you get results for all.. (5 people tested hits on all).......

example: jason drummond honda
I did me: Doug Logan Mazda
8 of the 10 results on page one of google are me....

wpfri

09-13-2004, 09:41 PM

Moose,It won't be much of an Issue because the ded on theft will be 3,000 dollars or higher depending on the vehicle.No Issue and you could really only claim on a total loss.

William

holliko

09-13-2004, 09:47 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by holliko
Try googling on "Your Name and car type"... I tried it with various names of people who run Solo and you get results for all.. (5 people tested hits on all).......

example: jason drummond honda
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Logan
I did me: Doug Logan Mazda
8 of the 10 results on page one of google are me....

Just more proof that we need a method to hide,supress, code, password protect these pages...... My opinion anyways......
Robert

Moose

09-13-2004, 09:50 PM

Okay .. that makes sense ... but how do you determine the total value of the racecar whenyou do not have receipts for much of your aftermarket parts? ...an independant apraisal ??? ..I probably have +12K in the car .

Cheers

Moose

wpfri

09-13-2004, 09:52 PM

Guys It will be ok.With our own Insurance we don't care about what they are saying or spying.

William

wpfri

09-13-2004, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Moose
Okay .. that makes sense ... but how do you determine the total value of the racecar whenyou do not have receipts for much of your aftermarket parts? ...an independant apraisal ??? ..I probably have 10K in parts in the car .

Cheers

Moose

Moose,thankyou for the reply before.Yes an Apraisal will be done and all modifications will be noted.
I must warn you guys we are hiring an x cop to oversee fraud.No receipts for parts,you better know where they came from.

William

StewPiddass

09-13-2004, 10:37 PM

Wait until this is all set up for a bit and the stats show that we don't make many claims at all nor are we the ones getting charged with all the HTA offences. Not that the insurers will ever admit they were wrong...

RacerRick

09-14-2004, 08:50 AM

Does this mean we will have our own insurance investigators that understand cars and racing in general?

Instead of the generic pricks places like state farm have?

Just asking, because I got royally reamed out for my car being broken into by a state farm insurance investigator that thought she was kojack. It took the real police to stop her accusations and unlawful investigation.

Plus my dad just retired from the RCMP with 30 years service and is driving us nuts because of his boredom. And hes where I got my car lust from! lol

de Jager

09-14-2004, 09:27 AM

CASC currently has nearly 3000 members which is comprised from the memberships of their current clubs. Many of these members will be interested in Bill's proposal.

I just wanted to add a tid bit that you all need to consider (I know that Bill has already considered this) and that insurance companies need to to determine who will be accepted based on their applications. If you want membership to this policy restricted to only certain groups/types of people (no *****s) then specific guidelines must be decided PRIOR to the program starting. If an insurance company does not allow someone, it can only be because their policy doesn't allow it.

So if you only want your company to insure drivers who are involved in sanctioned motorsports (no street racers) then you will need to file with the government that only CASC Members will be accepted. However, that also means that friends and family CANNOT be accepted unless they become members. That being said, who's to say that a street racer won't just call up CASC, pay their fees and become a member? Nothing.

Just thoughts to consider as this program moves forward. Like I said these issues are already being considered by Bill and his team.

craig hamm

09-14-2004, 10:17 AM

I would be careful. CASC-OR is just one body. If you ever went down this road, just say ASN Canada FIA affiliated. That will also encompass the rally community, and it's not small. And if rally can grow under motorsport friendly insurance, all the better for the co-op.

The other thing is some sort of cool-off period. Otherwise, you'll have every *****/street-racer joining ASN clubs just to get insured, without regard to the law and the image of true motorsports. Sure, memberships will swell, but not the members you want! Maybe you need to have been affiliated, for one or so years, in good standing? Just thinking out loud.

Craig

gatherer

09-14-2004, 10:38 AM

Craig, I thought the Rally guys were affiliated with CASC-OR (I guess I stand corrected)

the other benifit of ASN Canada FIA required affiliation is motorsport drivers from around the country are covered and not just Ontario.

in the end it is Williams decision

de Jager

09-14-2004, 11:19 AM

Let me clarify something. I didn't mean to suggest an option to Bill as to who is accepted or not (he and I have had many conversations about this issue). But more to provide an example of some of the rules in the insurance industry. We all have an opinion about who should and shouldn't be covered under such a program but their are always difficulties with it.

Policys about who is and isn't accepted must be filed with the government. If an insurance company breaches those policies, then serious fines are applied to the company. Which is why it was easier for some companies to say things like "ALL modifications are not allowed" or "any type of racing is prohibited". However, there isn't anything saying that the person can't race, just that the car that they insure can't be used for racing.

So the only real point that I was trying to make is that the application acceptance must be very carefully decided upon and can't be waivered or deviated from once the policies are filed with the government.

wpfri

09-14-2004, 12:01 PM

The Insurance is in No way part of the CASC or any other racing group.It is based on the American Co-op program and is open to all Motorsport persons across Canada.

Williams Performance Friction is putting up the Insurers bond of 1 Million dollars to move this foward.

William

gatherer

09-14-2004, 12:27 PM

I hope in the plan William there is a way of Williams getting back that money as policies are paid for...

JAYh

09-14-2004, 03:17 PM

Hey William, if I don't want theft coverage can I forego the "boomerang" requirement? It seems a waste to install a $400 anti-theft system in my $200 car if I don't insure it for theft anyway.

- J

wpfri

09-14-2004, 03:26 PM

Jay, you are a smart guy knowing the system.the answer is yes.

William

finboy

09-14-2004, 04:17 PM

I'm amazed.. what people have been praying for might actually become reality

Wil-san.. even if this doesn't happen..

I thank you for your time and effort spent on this insurance thing.

you are hard core!!

wpfri

09-14-2004, 04:24 PM

Hi Dave,We are going foward with this.This is good for the sport and this Insurance is a must have.

William

P.S. Sorry do do this on air but what about the wheels Dave.What do you want to do!

finboy

09-14-2004, 04:28 PM

you gonna be at the topgun shootout??

(i'll bring them then)

wpfri

09-14-2004, 04:54 PM

Yes Sir, we are one of the sponsors for the top gun.Are we talking October.

William

finboy

09-14-2004, 05:30 PM

yup October..

summers over not much a happen'n

:cry:

MitS

09-15-2004, 09:26 AM

Poop, I googled my name and the ONLY thing that came up was a COMP event.

de Jager

09-15-2004, 09:35 AM

Jeez, when I search for my name Google lights up like a Christmas tree! LOL

eddie 82

09-15-2004, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by miataboi
...remembering that ONE bad apple... can ruin it for all...
Careful where you post it... as it just takes one bad incident or fraud to put us all back to square one... or worse... and there is no need to bring TOO much attention to this effort outside of "us" and the motorsport community... *****S / STREET-"RACERS" NEED NOT APPLY!!! And so it begins.....
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB26&Number=4546187&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1

zc911

09-15-2004, 11:31 AM

this is amazing
A friend sent the link to me becuase my car was dropped becuase of it;s modifications
I drove it for one week in the last year :(

Got a question though, is it less if i only drive the car for 6 months out of the year and it;s stored the other 6 months? The car is not driven in winter and really won;t be a daily driver in the sumemr either.
bah hell either way for $1500 a year sing me up NOW :D
consider the next cheapest was almost $400 a monthwith facilty despite the fact i ahve a perfect driving record

zc911

09-15-2004, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by eddie 82
And so it begins.....
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB26&Number=4546187&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&fpart=1

that was me. He did sya the mroe the better and with his strict rules i doubt many *****s are gonna bother. I edited it, and if it;s alright to put it back let me know

eddie 82

09-15-2004, 11:53 AM

IMHO, until things are finalized, this is just a discussion and there isn't really much point to cross-posting this thread on so many different boards.

zc911

09-15-2004, 12:00 PM

gottcha no prob

gatherer

09-15-2004, 12:03 PM

Deductables will be high enough most will not want it... (at least when this first started that is what I was told) can you afford a 2000 or higher deductable?

Reijo

09-15-2004, 12:21 PM

Yeah....same story out west (and I recall conversations just last year about similar straits in N.B. and points on the right coast).....insurance co. woes. I have often thought it is time to start another co. to offer insurance to us motorheads and that it could be a good service but also a viable business.

I think it does not make business sense to drop policies like that but the insurance co. do as they see fit.

On a similar note, anyone to start a new Canadian bank (haven't had much luck with them either!)? :^)

Reijo

CobraStang

09-15-2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by eddie 82
IMHO, until things are finalized, this is just a discussion and there isn't really much point to cross-posting this thread on so many different boards. Its already spread across a number of sites and forums.

Looking at the brighter side, maybe some viewers drawn here haven't heard about Solo 1 or 2, and this topic mau get them out. In fact, if more people knew how to control their cars better, insurance rates would be a bit lower.

Reijo

09-15-2004, 02:26 PM

That might be an indication that such a venture could be a booming success? :D

Reijo

zc911

09-15-2004, 02:45 PM

booming succes is an understatement

rallyfan33

09-16-2004, 03:16 AM

Interesting thread! I'm in BC with government insurance and I'm a licensed insurance broker. Yes our policy says no speed events... BUT... always check your wording to see if it is a speed event EXCLUSION or a speed event WARRANTY...

The difference is:

An EXCLUSION is something that is not covered but does not affect the rest of the policy... eg: wind damage is excluded from a house insurance policy... you still have insurance, just no coverage for damage caused by wind.

A WARRANTY is something that voids the policy on the spot as soon as you breach that agreement or condition... eg: a fishing boat is warrantied to stay within 5 miles of shore. If he operates outside that 5 mile boundary, his policy is null and void, even if his boat subsequently sinks within the 5 mile mark.

Yes sometimes impossible to prove but watch for it! In the case of a warranty... you CAN and WILL be cancelled!

I hope this program proceeds! It will be a great step for the sport in Canada and as soon as it is profitable... there will be 10 companies doing the same thing!

Brian.

wpfri

09-16-2004, 03:21 AM

Brian,Thanks for that.Exclusions are giving us the most grief.We are going with a trial run before we lock down the policy.

We are going with a customer application trial run just to make sure we have proper exclusions.Rally is our biggest issue with this.

William

XDRacer

09-16-2004, 01:48 PM

I'm so ready for this. I just received my Wawanesa renewal, I have the same 6 star rating as last year, but the insurance went from 135.73 to 153.xx a month. Well, at least it's not $244/month like when I was 24.

Simon_the_Piema

09-16-2004, 06:37 PM

No receipts for parts,you better know where they came from.

William [/B]

as my first post i'd like to say thank you Will for this effort, its an amazing thing you're doing for the community, especially the fact that you are keepin the sport alive....

but i do have a question - what if you do not know the history of the used parts you currently have on the vehicle? i am probably the 4th owner of my current suspension setup and have no idea where the orginated...

is the solution as easy as not including these parts in the appraisal? or will i simply not qualify for the insurance?

thanks in advance

Simon

wpfri

09-16-2004, 06:45 PM

Simon,before I answer.thank you for your support.I noticed your profile does not register.Do you know anyone on the board or does anyone know you.

William

wpfri

09-17-2004, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by Simon_the_Piema
as my first post i'd like to say thank you Will for this effort, its an amazing thing you're doing for the community, especially the fact that you are keepin the sport alive....

but i do have a question - what if you do not know the history of the used parts you currently have on the vehicle? i am probably the 4th owner of my current suspension setup and have no idea where the orginated...

is the solution as easy as not including these parts in the appraisal? or will i simply not qualify for the insurance?

thanks in advance

Simon

Thanks for the PM.I am even sorry to have to ask you that question.

My competition has been playing games and trying to discredit Williams so I thought this might be a set up.Sorry, but my staff are on high alert.

We are going to have a trial run within a month.The laywers are just finishing up the application forms and all the details will be on this.

Thanks again for your support and Interest.Say high to zc911 for me.Thanks for all the postings everywhere!

William

zc911

09-17-2004, 09:16 AM

How can we get on the trial run?

wpfri

09-17-2004, 09:34 AM

I want to thank you zc911 for posting everywhere.Please feel free to use the posts from the F1.10 info and post It.

Everyone is Welcome to be included in this Insurance Information test.

Williams will be doing a post in the next 4 to 5 weeks about this subject.You will be able to down load the form or fill It out, Online.

We are going to do a trial run just to make sure the Interest is there and finalize the Exclusions clauses.

Stay Tuned and thank you for your support.

William