reclassification

[Tercel Racer]

I'm new here and plan ondoing solo 2 soon but my question is regarding reclassification of cars with swaps.I enjoy racing with my friends(only at the track) and want to compete aginst other cars. As you can tell my my username I own a tercel and to be more specific it's a 92 4 door.I have swapped in the 5E-FE from the Paseo (100 hp) and I would like to know how do I reclassify my car with this swap.Any help would be appreciated.Thanx.

Tercel 4 door SPECS
factory curb weight 2005lbs
swapped engine 100hp

[Wedge]

Welcome to Solo 2!
And I must say, what a fantastic choice of vehicles. I'm being serious here. :cool: I used to race a Paseo (man, it still hurts to say "used to"). So I'd like to think I know a thing or two about those cars. If you need any help, I'd be glad to offer what I can.

With that engine swap you can run in FSP. But only if the engine itself is unmodified. If you've made modifications to the engine, then you'll have to run in C-Mod.
If you want that extra perfomance edge, I've got a suspension kit that will fit your car, and improve the handling a hundred times over!
It's a Hot Bits Street-Race Suspension, with less than 5,000KM on them. Front springs are 4.5Kg, rears are 2.5Kg. Shocks are custom valvable to suit your needs. Send me a PM if you're interested.
Here's an example pic:
http://www.motorsport-dist.com/images/strace.jpg

[Cheers!]

good ole C-mod. THe dumping ground for almost all the "street modd'd" cars.

[TOYSRUS]

CMOD is where the action is, you NEED to run CMOD.....
you are getting sleepy......very sleepy........run CMOD..........

[Robin2]

Originally posted by Wedge
[B]With that engine swap you can run in FSP. But only if the engine itself is unmodified. If you've made modifications to the engine, then you'll have to run in C-Mod.


Would that apply to an Impreza RS with WRX swap?

I thought it would jump me to Dmod.... but if the engine is stock, is that DSP?

I need to start reading the rule book.....

Robin

[gatherer]

unless the swap is allowed via update back date rules you are in mod... as far as I know

[Tony Kloosterma]

teh diff between c mod and d mod is engine displacement, i think 2 litre and under is in c mod.

[J.C.]

Swapping engines from another vehicle that is not the same make & model would put you into mod. 2L + or 1.35L & forced induction is Dmod.



Note: If the block is the same as your original engine you can take engine prep points for the modifications and perhaps stay out of mod.

[Wedge]

Originally posted by Robin2
Would that apply to an Impreza RS with WRX swap?

I thought it would jump me to Dmod.... but if the engine is stock, is that DSP?

I need to start reading the rule book.....

Robin

An RS with a WRX engine, you can run in ESP. AS LONG AS THE ENGINE ITSELF IS STOCK. If the engine is modified, then you move to C-Mod.

[J.C.]

Originally posted by Wedge
An RS with a WRX engine, you can run in ESP. AS LONG AS THE ENGINE ITSELF IS STOCK. If the engine is modified, then you move to C-Mod.

How do you figure? You would have to add up your prep points and see where you end up.

[Wedge]

Originally posted by J.C.
Swapping engines from another vehicle that is not the same make & model would put you into mod. 2L + or 1.35L & forced induction is Dmod.


Oh, you're right. I never really read the Mod rules that closely. Personally, I've been avoiding that class like the plague!


Note: If the block is the same as your original engine you can take engine prep points for the modifications and perhaps stay out of mod.


That's something that most people don't realize can be done.
There are 2 ways to do engine swaps and not run in mod. First way is to use the update/backdate rule. The second way is to claim points for the engine mods.
This is what the rule says about engine mods:

Any other engine modification(s), subject to the restrictions below (not available in Super Stock):
Reciprocating engine: The cylinder bore diameter may be increased, provided the resulting
increase can be achieved within the standard equipment block/barrels without the need to add
material to the block/barrels. The number and location of the camshafts and valves may not be
changed. The stroke may not be changed.

You can do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING you want to the engine. Provided that you do NOT change the stroke, the number of valves, and the number of cams.
You can do a head swap provided the number cams/valves is the same. You can even do an entire block swap (not worth it unless going from iron, to alloy, my opinion) provided the bore and stroke do not change.

So, to try to keep this all on the original topic. Tercel Racer, you cannot claim prep points for your engine swap, because the number of cams, and the number of valves has been changed. Which means that the only way for you to NOT be in the modified class, is if the engine remains stock. Then you can run in Street Prepared.
And let me give you this bit of advice also: Stay out of the modified class. Do NOT do any modifications to that engine. On any given day, Pat is usually faster than Joe, so you're much better off in SP, trust me, I know from experience!

[gatherer]

Matt don't tell me your scared of Pat?

[DareBee]

I believe that a couple of the people posting here MAY be refferring to the PITTL classifications in regards to CMod, as oppossed to the regional rules.

[gatherer]

Here are the regional rules for anyone interested in actually reading them:

http://www.solo2ontario.com/info/documents/2004solo2rules.pdf

they are useful for 2 reasons: you know what you can do in your class and you know what others can't do in your class

[Wedge]

Originally posted by gatherer
Matt don't tell me your scared of Pat?

You saw what he did to me in Ottawa!
Maybe he's scared of me as well... maybe that was a warning to stay out of his class...

[gatherer]

I'm quite sure Pat wants others to play with him... he's done years of research on his car setup... probably more then anyone else it's perfect now... except for his need for more down force

[Cheers!]

Originally posted by DareBee
I believe that a couple of the people posting here MAY be refferring to the PITTL classifications in regards to CMod, as oppossed to the regional rules.

:D

[DareBee]

^ I thought so

[Robin2]

So the WRX swap would be in Cmod..... tks....

Good to know if I ever go down this route....

Robin

[101rs]

Robin. the WRX engine will put u in D-mod(2.0 x 1.5 > 2.0)
and u can't use the back date rule becuse the engine was never offered in our chassis in Canada

[Wedge]

Originally posted by 101rs
Robin. the WRX engine will put u in D-mod(2.0 x 1.5 > 2.0)
and u can't use the back date rule becuse the engine was never offered in our chassis in Canada

You're seeing things dude.


I. Updating and Backdating of Parts
i) Interchange of components between various years of
the same model or between various models produced
by the same manufacturer under the same brand
name is permitted.
ii) The component must be standard equipment on the
vehicle from which it was taken.
iii) The vehicle from which the component is taken must
be of the same body configuration and type and have
the same drive train configuration as that on which the
component will be installed. Same body configuration
for the purposes of update/backdate is defined as a
specific model generation of a vehicle where the body
style remained nearly identical between years. TheStreet Prepared category vehicle listings shall define
the model years eligible for update/backdate of a
particular vehicle.
iv) The updated/backdated part or the part to which it is to
be attached may not be altered, modified, machined or
otherwise changed to facilitate the updating/
backdating allowance.
v) If modifications are made to any updated/backdated
part, they must conform to the modification allowances
in Street Prepared category and they will no longer be
considered an update/backdate.
vi) The updating and/or backdating of engines,
transmissions or transaxles must be done as a unit;
component parts of these units may not be
interchanged. If modifications are made, they must
conform to the modification allowances in Street
Prepared category.
vii) Where engines are interchangeable between models,
the vehicle on which the component is installed must
now compete in the same class as the vehicle from
which the component was taken.


Nowhere in there does it say the engine must have been available in Canada.

[Robin2]

but it's not the same drivetrain.... so it's not valid....

I could see the updating/backdating, on my rear diff cause the 99 Impreza RS didn't come with rear 4.11 LSD but the 2000-01 Impreza RS did....

Mike.... is there a turbo factor? for the 1.5? cause at ottawa regional.... RS with a WRX swap was classed in C mod.

http://www.solo2ontario.com/events/results/2004/Event7.pdf

Robin

[Tony Kloosterma]

it doesn't come from the same body type
its cmod

Tony

[J.C.]

Originally posted by Wedge
You're seeing things dude.



Nowhere in there does it say the engine must have been available in Canada.

It has to be available locally. This is what we were told when we said that the G60 engine came in the Mk II golf in euroupe. The green golf actually had a G60 already installed when we were told this, we had to pull out the motor. :(

[StewPiddass]

Wedge, you are partly right, you can swap a WRX engine in any current body style Impreza (cuz it was available in that chassis) eg: Don could do this in his Outback Sport and move from DSS to ESP. But Robin cannot, he has the older generation RS...

If you could use engines that weren't available locally all the EG Civic guys would be using B16's in DSP...

Hey, now that I mention it, for update backdate does the car have to be exactly the same body style? What I'm thinking about is the 6th gen (EK) Civic. The DOHC B16 was available in the 6g Coupe in Canada (SiR) but could it be put in a 6g hatch or sedan? anyone know?

[Wedge]

Originally posted by Robin2
but it's not the same drivetrain.... so it's not valid....

I could see the updating/backdating, on my rear diff cause the 99 Impreza RS didn't come with rear 4.11 LSD but the 2000-01 Impreza RS did....
Robin

No need to use update/backdate on diffs. Because they are already free in SP anyways. So are the tranny's for that matter.

[Wedge]

Originally posted by StewPiddass
Hey, now that I mention it, for update backdate does the car have to be exactly the same body style? What I'm thinking about is the 6th gen (EK) Civic. The DOHC B16 was available in the 6g Coupe in Canada (SiR) but could it be put in a 6g hatch or sedan? anyone know?

I think the rulebook needs to define "body configuration and type".

[DBlokker]

Originally posted by J.C.
It has to be available locally. This is what we were told when we said that the G60 engine came in the Mk II golf in euroupe. The green golf actually had a G60 already installed when we were told this, we had to pull out the motor. :(

The problem with this is that the G60 only come in all wheel drive variants in Europe like the rallye golf.

iii) The vehicle from which the component is taken must be of the same body configuration and type and have the same drive train configuration as that on which the component will be installed

[njansenv]

According to what some are saying, it seems that I would be allowed to 'update' to SRT-4 engine/tranny/LSD? In a 2400lb 1st gen ACR, that would be silly.....:D. Hm....10lb/1whp....
Somehow, I doubt this is the case, and if it IS, it should be changed....

Currently, as far as I can read things, I'm in D-mod with a 2.4 1st gen Neon w/cams and compression. At least it's fun to drive.....
:D

[J.C.]

If they are the same generation then yes you could do the swap and stay in DSP otherwise you would be in Dmod.

[njansenv]

Originally posted by J.C.
If they are the same generation .....

THAT was kinda what I was getting at.;) Same reason it's not reasonable to allow older civics/CRX's to swap K20's or whatever.
Dmod it is (Cmod for PITL).

Nathan

[Tercel Racer]

I got 2 more question's,1 regarding me and one for my cousin.

1)Wedge when you say for me to stay in FSP I can't modify my engine it must remain stock, do you mean stock(no mods)or stock reffering to the mods allowed in the stock class.

2)My cousin has an 89 Mazda MX6 base model and would like to do solo 2 also but he needs to replace his engine soon but his question isregarding the engine.He has the base model and there were turbo models available and want's to know if replacing his base model engine with a turbo engine will place him in the class the same model car came but with the turbo engine or would he have to be reclassified because he's swapping in an engine that didn't come with his car stock.

[Wedge]

Originally posted by Tercel Racer
I got 2 more question's,1 regarding me and one for my cousin.

1)Wedge when you say for me to stay in FSP I can't modify my engine it must remain stock, do you mean stock(no mods)or stock reffering to the mods allowed in the stock class.


Simply, you can't modify the engine. The only things you would be allowed to do is an exhaust system (as long as you retain the stock manifold). And you'd probably be allowed to install an intake as well. But anything more than that, and you'd get bumped to mod for sure.

2)My cousin has an 89 Mazda MX6 base model and would like to do solo 2 also but he needs to replace his engine soon but his question isregarding the engine.He has the base model and there were turbo models available and want's to know if replacing his base model engine with a turbo engine will place him in the class the same model car came but with the turbo engine or would he have to be reclassified because he's swapping in an engine that didn't come with his car stock.

If the engine is the same, and he just converts to the turbo model. There would be no problem as long as he claims points for the turbo. And, (I don't know anything about those engines) if the compression is different, which it probably is, he'd have to claim points for engine mods as well. But other than that, it wouldn't inherently change his class.

[J.C.]

Regs.

http://www.solo2ontario.com/info/documents/2004-CASC-OR-GCR.pdf


Points list:

http://racing.kos.net/soloforums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=3949

[Tercel Racer]

1 more question.In part 6.5E section 4A about the suspension it says Springs must be the same type as original (coil,
leaf, torsion bar, etc.) and use the original
attachment points. Ride height may only be
altered by suspension adjustments, the use of
spacing blocks, leaf spring shackles, torsion bar
levers, adjustable coil spring perches, or
modification of springs. This does not allow the
use of spacers which alter suspension geometry,
such as those between the hub carrier and lower
suspension arm.


so does this mean that coilover sleeve's can be used without getting any PIP's?I'm just curious.