Air bags

[craig]

I just wanted a clarification on the rule regarding airbags.

I have a Solo2 944S2, class A2 (stock). The airbags have been legally removed, Transport Canada notified, forms filled out, yada yada yada.

I did the Solo1 school earlier this year, and hope to run some Solo1 next year.

From my reading of the Solo rules, removal of airbags is not allowed in stock class like it is in Solo2 - in fact, because airbags aren't mentioned in the SS and SP authorized mods, the only class I can run in Solo1 is modified ?!?

Yes? No?

TIA, and my apologies if this has been discussed before.

[Marsh]

You got it...

[Dave]

Craig, you can run your car in any class in Solo 1 with whatever steering wheel you want.

Section 5.1.0.B (General Modifications - Stock Category) of the 2001 Solo Ontario rulebook states "the sunvisors, steering wheel, floor pedals, shifter knob and lever may be modified".

In other words, you can substitute any steering wheel you want, irregardless of the airbag issue in Stock class or any other class for that matter.

Hope this helps,
Dave
Car Classification Committee member

[craig]

Thanks muchly.

I have both the driver's and passenger's airbag removed, as this is safest with my setup. Thus, the steering wheel rule isn't totally applicable.

At least in modified I won't have to read the rules (mostly) anymore. :cool:

[Dave]

Craig, so you're building an Mod 944S? That's a pretty sweet ride! Looking forward to seeing you and your beast at the track :)

Nick Majors will be pleased to hear this, since you two can keep each other company in B-Mod next season. The Car Classification Committee has recently moved the Porsche 944's to B-family from A-family (due to the Sports Coupe 2+2 seating arrangement rule), which is good news for you since you won't have to compete directly against Joe Smiley's monster Corvette. Then again, if Nick brings out his Eagle Talon you'll have some pretty fast company anyway.

I believe we'll have another Porsche 944 out for the full season next year, though I think he'll be running in a SuperStock class, not Mod like you.

Best of luck with your car build-up,

Dave

[JGraves]

Dave,

What Craig is saying is that he thinks he will be in Mod because of the missing passenger air bag. Can he claim the removal of the air bag as a mod to the dash under 6.3.F? That would put him in BSS2? with -2 weight points as the car has a full cage.

Jeff Graves
MCO Solo 1 Rep

[Dave]

Ok, let me try this again.

Under section 5.1.0.A of the 2001 rulebook you can remove non-performance oriented elements which include (though not specifically listed) airbags. In other words, you can remove any/all airbags from your car for free, NO prep points used, at any/all levels of car prep, from Stock class all the way up to Mod class. This is an allowable modification to your car within the rulebook because it provides no tangible peformance enhancement and thus will NOT move you up from Stock class.

Under section 5.1.0.B of the 2001 rulebook you can replace/modify your steering wheel (including removal of the airbag!) without having to claim any prep points. This is an allowable mod and thus will NOT move you up from Stock class.

To summarize, Craig can yank any/all airbags from his car and replace the steering wheel with whatever make/model he likes without using any prep points or breaking any rules regarding allowable modification at the Stock level. His car will still be 100% Stock class legal if he makes these changes to his car.

Coolio?

We aim to please,
Dave

[JGraves]

Dave,

That was not how I interpreted 5.1.0.A due to the use of “added or replaced” instead of “modified” or “removed”. Thanks for the clarification. As you identified yourself as a “Car Classification Committee member” in an earlier post, can your most recent post be considered an official clarification or only your personal interpretation? If the intent of the rule is to allow removal of air bags and other items I think the wording should be changed for the 2002 rulebook. Let me know and I can submit my suggested wording for approval.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Dave]

Jeff,

I'll get official clarification of the rule from the rest of the CCC, just to be certain, but my personal feeling is that Solo 1 should be allowing removal of air bags, just as they are specifically allowed for Solo 2 under section 5.1.0.A. There's no performance or handling gains to be had by removing your air bags so I can see no reason for us to force potential competitors like Craig in Mod class simply because he wants to remove his air bags. I am certain nobody would know or care if Craig showed up at the track with his air bags removed, disabled, or replaced with tiny air-filled Mickey Mouse dolls that come flying out at you in the event of an impact :p

I'll send an e-mail out to the CCC right now and get back to you and Craig once I get word from the rest of the committee. My feeling is that we should remove reference to "Solo II only" from the last sentence of section 5.1.0.A., but I understand your concern and I'll see what I can do about it.

Cheers,
Dave

[craig]

>I am certain nobody would know or care if Craig showed up at the track with his air bags removed, disabled, or replaced with tiny air-filled Mickey Mouse dolls that come flying out at you in the event of an impact

Hmm. Where can you get those Mickey Mouse dolls? :D

No doubt you are quite right that no one will care. No doubt any interest will be inversely proportional to my lap times, so there won't be any interest at all!

What's this about 944's moving to B? Will the 944S2 no longer start off in A2? Um, what about those F-bodies? ;) I don't know what this "Sports Coupe 2+2 seating arrangement rule" is, but keep in mind 911's are 2+2 sports coupes according to some ...

Thanks for your help Jeff. Jeff is now the Solo1 rep for MCO, so I thought I'd appeal to him. Thanks Jeff! :)

[Dave]

Craig and Jeff,

So far I've heard back from one CCC member and he is in agreement with me that Craig should be allowed to remove his air bags. Looking good so far on that front.

As for the 944's moving to B-family, I believe this will be the case for 2002 along with a few other 2+2 cars that were previously defined as 'Sports Cars'. The 911's are in the 'Super Car' group, so the fact that they're a 2+2 is superceded by their definition into this highest performance group. The Camaros and Mustangs are in the 'Pony Car' group, which again supercedes the need to use the 2+2 seating rule. In other words, the 2+2 seating rule is only used to differentiate 'Sports Car' group from the 'Sports Coupe' group. Since the Porsche 944's used to be in 'Sports Car 1' (thus an A-family car, starting in the root class of A2) but does in fact have a 2+2 seating arrangement, it will be moved to B-family and defined as a 'Sports Coupe' under this rule. The same is happening for the 86.5 - 92 Supras and a few other cars that used to make their home in A-family.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll find B-family a competitive group depending on what level of prep you end up in. B/SS1 was one of our most competitive classes last year and your car will certainly be capable of mixing it up with the likes of Chris Sorensen's 328 Bimmer and the yellow M3 of Bruce Murphy and Bev Pesola, not to mention that pesky Judd mobile and consistent front runners like Victor DelCol :)

I'll let you know once I've heard back from the rest of the CCC, but I think you're perfectly safe to yank your air bags at this point and assume it's completely legal and allowable and thus you can compete at whatever level of performance you want.

Best of luck,
Dave

[Mark Bidwell]

Not intending to start a whole discussion on classification of cars(god knows thats been done) but how does a 944S2 end up in a class with a 91 BMW 318, with a 1.8 litre engine and 134 hp stock? Any input would be appreciated.

I ask for several reason, a) I drive said BMW and b) I eventually want a 944S2 or 944 turbo for track use.
Mark

[craig]

If I'm reading these rules right (which is probably not a good assumption, given this thread!), the 318 is in B3, along with a lot of cars that would be slower, and a few that might be faster (at the track, not a straight line). An S2 in this class would be awesome! :D OTOH, a base 944 (A3) might fit in just fine - but it also might be a front-runner in class. (A stock 944 is slower than a stock CRX at Shannonville.)

If I look at B2, I see cars that would be slower (on the track, not in a straight line) than the 944S2, and cars that would definitely be faster (e.g., larger E36/E46 6-cyl BMW's).

In B1, the E36 M3 is much faster than a stock S2. (A stock S2 and 90- 300ZX non-turbo have exactly the same track performance.)

Note just like BMW 3's, there are a lot of different Porsche 944's with a lot of different levels of power, handling, suspension options, etc., - which leads to lots of confusion for those who don't study 3-digit Porsche-speak. For example, the 944 turbo and the S2 (and the S and the 968) are almost always classed together. The poor 944S owner is toast. The up-to-1988 944 turbo and the 1989-up 944S2 are very similar cars on paper, but on the track the turbo will be faster than the S2. A 1988 944 turbo S/1989 turbo/1990 turbo will blow away both the S2 and pre-89 regular turbo. OTOH, in an autox, the S2 will be faster than an early turbo - or a turbo S/late turbo... well, you get the idea.

Statistical classification methodology is part of my regular job, so I sympathize with anyone who tries car classification. There is no easy way to do it and no way everyone will be happy. In any scheme there will always be "winners" and "losers." I just don't want to be in Mod. ;)

[Mark Bidwell]

I don't blame you for not wanting to be in Mod! Certainly if all you've done is remove your airbags. Last year I ran in BSS2 and did okay, with 6 prep points, but certainly don't want to move to BSS1. I just know I would get eaten alive by M3's and the like, handling is one thing, but combine that with HP and I'm outta luck. Hense the attraction to a 944S2, a turbo, turbo S from 89(yes please) or the 968. Of course then I'd just rack up the mileage on the street. Ah well, guess we just wait until the spring. Cheers
Mark

[Bruce Murphy]

Craig,

I think a stock S2 is a much better handler than an E36 M3. I think what you give up in HP would be offset by whizzing around corners. Your car is friggin' nailed!

Bruce

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave,

I've noticed this discussion on the new classification of the 944. With this in mind can I get the CCC to classify a 1980 Chevrolet Monza 2+2 with a 305 V8 please? If you need details drop me an e-mail. Thanks.

Jud

Solo 1 Competitor #37

[Dave]

Guys, just a quick update about airbag removal. The CCC discussed this at our last meeting and we all agreed that the rule should be expanded to explicitly include the removal of airbags for Solo 1. It is now safe to remove your airbags without fear of breaking any rules :) Go nuts!

Jud, there's a CCC meeting next week so I'll have us classify the 1980 Monza 2+2 with a 305 V8. Based on it's seating arrangement and engine displacement it will certainly be a B-family car.

Based on my research of the 1975-1980 H-body Monza (which was Motor Trend's Car of the Year in 1976!), it's a front engine, RWD, IFS, rear live-axle design that came with either a 4cyl Cosworth 2.0 litre overhead cam engine producing 110 horsepower and 107 lbs.ft/torque, a 6 cyl Buick 3.8 litre engine producing 115 horsepower and 190 lbs.ft/torque, or one of several V8's including a Chevy 5.0 litre 305 producing 140 horsepower and 245 lbs.ft/torque. I'm not sure how horsepower and torque were rated back in the mid to late 1970's, so perhaps some sort of correction factor needs to be applied to these numbers. Let me know what you think. Some models came with positractions in the rearend. The front suspension is made up of unequal length upper and lower control arms, coil springs (rate depends on model), shocks, and stablizer bar on some models. The rear suspension includes a solid axle, lower trailing radius arms, upper oblique torque arms (Vega to 1975), torque arm/transverse linkage bar ("Panhard bar") (Vega 1976-up and Monza), stabilizer bar on some models, coil springs (135 lbs/inch), and shocks. The V8 Monzas are equipped with a 1'' front stabilizer bar and a 3/4'' rear stabilizer bar. The largest stock tire size they came equipped with are 225/50-15's, though you can fit 265's on them with the use of spacers and the tires fit within the wheel wells. Apparently 275's will protrude beyond the wheel well lip. The Monza's curb weight varies between 2700 and 3000 lbs. depending on the options. The lightest model is the 2 door hatchback coupe (presumably a 2+2) at 2695, plus 85 lbs. extra for the 305 V8 and add another 34 lbs. for power steering. So figure about 2780 lbs. for the lightest hatchback Monza with a 305 V8 and no power steering or 2814 lbs. with power steering.
For more info on the H-body cars, visit h-body.org

Given the similarities in suspension design between the Monza and Camaro, I would assume we'll settle on a handling rating near to the IROC Camaro of the 1980's (say in the 35-45% range). Using the above number, the Monza with 305 V8 indexes out at a total of 46.6, which puts it solidly in B3. It would take an unrealistically high suspension rating to have it move up to B2, so I would at this point assume it is a B3 car.

Anyway, I'll pass all this by the CCC next week and get back to you with an official classification but unless I've missed something really obvious (which is entirely possible), I believe it to be a B3 car.

Cheers,
Dave

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave,

Thanks for the quick response.

The horsepower ratings of the 70's are the same as today. BTW the change in rating systems occurred for the 1972 model year - they went from Gross Power to SAE Net.

The weights you have researched are very low. A 305 equipped car with fuilds weighs 3080.

The tire sizes are also inaccurate. These cars came with 13" wheels (9 1/2" brakes). The largest OE size was BR70X13 - this equals a 195/70R13. The front wheel wells are the smallest, but will accommadate without modifications a 225/50R15. The rears are a little bigger and you can get a 235 back there. The challenge with the wheel wells is as much the diameter as it is the width. With the mods allowed in Street Prepared you could go much larger.

I look forward to hearing from the CCC.

Cheers,

Jud

[Dave]

Hi Jud,

Interesting that your experience with the Monza indicates some fairly different things than the H-body.org website info I found, particularly with reference to curb weight and wheel/tire size. I have absolutely no experience with H-body cars, so I'll be sure to take your comments with me to the CCC meeting so that we can use a 'best guesstimate' for curb weight and take into consideration the wheel/tire size issue when deciding on a handling rating, though as you say once you're in SP it's a moot point. I believe Eric will have a 'Car Guide' from 1980 that will allow us to verify things like curb weight, horsepower and torque. Do you have a manufacturer's manual indicating these numbers? Is that where you got 3080 lbs. for the curb weight? If you've got access to what you consider accurate and reliable data on the car (many unofficial websites posted by fans of a particular make/model can be pretty iffy, as I may have already proved with h-body.org) please post them here or drop me an e-mail at dpratte4@cogeco.ca. Thanks!

So 1972 was the magic year that the power numbers switched from gross to SAE net. Interesting, and thanks for the edumucation! :) (that's Homer Simpson talk for 'education', just in case you're not big on the 'Simpsons' tv show).

Cheers,
Dave

[Dave Barker]

Now let me get this straight . The Monza is a 2 plus 2 , 2 dr front engine rear drive car with a live rear axle and a 5 liter old tech V8 that weighs over 3000 lb . A 3rd gen Camaro or Mustang for that matter is a 2 plus 2 , 2 dr front engine rear drive car with a live rear axle and a 5 litre old tech V8 that weighs over 3000 lb but the Monza is B3 and the Camaro / Mustangs are A 3 ??? This is what I really dislike about the family classification system .

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave,

Just think your car is in the sports car class with the 911's and Z06's, not down in B with the sports coupes and sedans, like the Porsche 944's. You know the ones, remember how slow they were in Turbo Cup trim (or should I say BSS2):). Like I said before Dave but nobody seemed interested, we need a Category for V8 RWD live axle cars. I'll bet there is enough to fill a stock, a super stock and a street prepared category. And if there isn't, just having their own class would be enough to draw new competitors. Is anybody listening? How about it CCC what's your position on this?

Jud

Solo 1 Competitor #37

[Dave Barker]

Jud , it seems that more to the point the 944's classification is not BSS2 as much as BS.

So if you build this Monza at least we will be able to compare times again ( even if not in the same class.... again ) .

I must admit to being worried whether there will be enough cars in my class next year . 3 of the more regular runners have their cars for sale ( or are already sold ) .

Also it seems the CCC's solution for small numbers in B class is just to transfer cars from A class . Does this make sense to you ?

Dave b (owner of a 2 plus 2 sports coupe in A class . )

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave:

Not to worry, I'm still planning to run my '67 this year. If class A is supposed to be faster than class B, maybe I can just run your class this year....unless of course there is some regulation prohibiting that. The new reg book is supposed to be out in two weeks so we'll just have to wait and see who is in what class.

If you really want a challenge next year checkout www.targanewfoundland.com It's 6 days of stage rally competition covering 2500 km, including 600 km of flatout racing on the special stages. And get this, all of it is on paved roads. The event is modeled after the Targa Tasmania which has been running for ten years. As of before Christmas, Targa Nfld had over 200 application for invitation requests. I talked to a guy who has run both the Targa Tasmania as well as the One Lap of America, and he says these Targa events are about endurance as well as speed. The distance of the special stages equals 30 Solo 1's, with every lap counting.

Cheers,

Jud

[Dave Barker]

There are 2500 km of paved roads in NFLD ??!!

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave,

Strange as it sounds, 75% of the roads in NFLD are paved. I didn't say they were all wide though!

Jud

[Dave]

Oi...more classification bashing. Fun!

If you guys want to see the Monza and Jud's Canso in A-family, I don't see any reason why we couldn't classify them as 'Pony Cars'. In fact, the Monza may well be a 'Pony Car'. I may have wrongly based my B-family assumption on the fact that it isn't a Pony Car, but it does seem to share a very similar design philosophy as those cars we've defined as 'Pony Cars', namely the availability of a RWD V8 and a relatively unsophisticated suspension design (ie. solid rear axel). In fact, maybe we should make it clear that in our definition of 'Pony Car' that a solid rear axel may be used for inclusion in this category of car. We'd have to look over the list of possible cars that would be reclassified as 'Pony Cars' under this rule change, but it may be worth considering. How do you two feel about this idea? It's the best I can come up with based on your understandable sense of frustration over the 'Car Type' definitions.

How about we try to make this system better by developing possible solutions to its shortcomings, rather than just firing random attacks at it?

The Other Dave

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave Pratt:

You're such a comedian suggesting that the Monza and Acadian Canso belong against the C5 Corvette...that's one of things I like about you :)

Dave Barker has been making a good case and I see a lot of merit in what he is saying. Let's look at some other facts. Nowhere else in the world from drag racing, road racing, SCCA Solo Events, to economy runs, do C2, C3, C4 or C5 Corvettes run against any 'V8 - RWD - 4 passenger - live axle cars'. There are numerous sound and logical reasons for this from engineering to physics to marketing.

I suggested to the CCC the solution of creating a single class for them. I haven't heard back yet from the CCC. I'll suggest another, move these cars all down to class B - they fit the Sport Coupe / Sport Sedan model description and they will be competitive.

I would also suggest to everyone that they follow the procedure outlined in the regulation book regarding regulation changes. As I read the regulations, anybody who wants to change a regulation (this would include the classification regulations) needs to post the proposed regulation change by the 5th event. Before the Solo 1 workshop last fall I followed-up with Perry and no proposals had been submitted regarding re-classifications for 2002.

Anybody who is interested in preparing a proposal to change the classification for 2003 of the 'V8 - RWD - 4 passenger - live axle cars', or any car for that matter, now has 6 months to prepare their presentation.

If providing facts, discussing regulations, exchanging views, and suggesting possible solutions is a form of regulation bashing - then I'm guilty, but I can live with it.

Happy New Year Dave Pratt.

Tach it up...let's go racing!

Jud
Competitor #37

[Dave]

QUOTE (Dave Barker): "Jud , it seems that more to the point the 944's classification is not BSS2 as much as BS."

Jud, this is the comment that led to my 'random attacks' comment. You seem to have assumed my comment was aimed at you, but it wasn't. Such is life on the internet. Anyway, I know Dr. Dave's point was to object to the 'car type' system which the classification is partially based on, but there's no need to do so in such negative terms. That's all I'm objecting to and it's no big deal to me in either case.

As for me being a comedian, some people would agree with you, though I don't see any reason why a car like yours wouldn't be competitive in A/SS2. Your laps times seem very comparable to Dr. Dave, who won A/SS2. You'll never see a C5 corvette until A/SS1 or higher, and with all the prep points you'd have at that level I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be pretty damn fast. However, both of your suggestions, of either developing a 'RWD V8 4 passenger solid axel' class or moving these types of cars to B-family, have merit and are certainly worthy of some serious consideration. Obviously this sort of change won't happen for the 2002 rulebook, since it goes to print next week as far as I understand, but for 2003 these are very good suggestions and certainly worth further exploration.

If you don't feel you're being heard on this message board, by all means take the road Jud has already identified in his previous post. I won't waste any more of my time here if you guys don't feel like you're being taken seriously. I'm only one member of the CCC and my responses here do not respresent anyone other than myself. I'm just a member of the Solo 1 community who feels that a public forum discussing issues such as classification is a worthwhile endeavor.

Just in case you're not aware, Eric does print off all these discussions so that the CCC can go over all the constructive comments, so you're not wasting your time hear in my opinion.

Happy New Year to you too Jud :)

Dave Pratte

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave Pratt:

Thanks for your reply and for clearing things up. I may not be a supporter of how the CASC manages their organization, but I've always been a big supporter of Solo Events, including the Directors and everybody involved within the discipline. I understand, appreciate and encourage the efforts of guys like you - I apoligize if I left you with any other impressions.

As for Dave Barker's 4 point A/SS2 Camaro being competitive with my 12 point B/SS 1 Acadian, it seems about right. In fact I think Dave could extract a couple more tenths out of my car - not that I'm inviting him to.

My car compared to the 0 point A Stock C5 Corvettes shows a 1.6 to a 4.6 second per lap shortage depending on the track. I wonder how fast an A/SS1 Corvette is capable of...I'll bet that Eric has an opinion on that.

Rather than wait until a proposal is officially submitted, I'm suggesting that the CCC study the effect of taking the 'V8 - RWD - 4 passenger - live axle' cars out of the A family and moving them to the B family. If you add another B class at the top it appears very workable, As you pointed out, Dave Barker's car could run in B/SS1 with 4 or 5 points. I'd be more than happy to work with you and / or the CCC on such a solution. Let me know your thoughts Dave Pratt.

Regards,

Jud

[Dave]

Jud,

How about if we split the work on this? I'll update the classification spreadsheet so that all the 'V8-RWD-4 pass.-live rear axel' cars are moved to B-family and reindexed using the B-family weightings. This will mean that some cars that were in A3 will now be in B2 or even B1 depending on how things flush out. I'll then e-mail you the changed spreadsheet file (do you have MS Excel on you computer?).

The next step, as I see it, would be to test how A- and B-family would have changed based on the results from the 2001 season. This will be a bit tricky because an A/SS2 car like Dave Barker's might actually be a B/SS1 or B/SP car under the different index weightings in B-family, so we can't just bump all the A-family cars we want to try moving down to the corresponding class in B-family. I'm sure you knew that already, but I figured I'd better point out the obvious just in case :) Anyway, once we've mapped out as accurately as we can where each A-family car in question should be in B-family, then it's just a matter of looking over the results from 2001 and plugging in the numbers to see how competitive each class would have been.

This will certainly take a bit of work, but it's a worthwhile exercise in my opinion. What do you think? I'm happy to have a hack at this with you if you're up for it.

If the results look really promising, then I suppose the next step is to formalize the idea by putting together as strong an argument as possible why this change to the classification system is benefitial to the series (ie. has a net benefit for more competitors than the old system and makes the series more compettive on the whole). This is obviously the tricky part.

Cheers,
Dave Pratte

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave Pratte (with an 'e'),

Yes I have ms excel. I can't work on it weekend as I'm off to an overnight car rally, but 'bring it on' I'm prepared to work on it with you.

Please send things directly to my email address.

Jud

[Dave]

sounds good to me, Jud. I'll e-mail you the spreadsheet once I've made the needed changes. I'll try to get it done this weekend.

Have fun at the rally,

Dave Pratte

[Dave Barker]

Dave Pratte , when you say my attacks are random , you assume a certain amount of unpredictability when in fact all my "attacks' are totally predictable and should be more likely described as " surgical strikes" with the CCC being the victims of "collateral damage " . I just can't decide which one of us is the "Great Satan " . ( Unfortunately I do belong to an ASS class but I hear Jud wants to change that ).

BTW Jud , I don't know what to think of you . First you compliment me as only another driver can by suggesting I could get I few extra tenths out of your car ( which is quite unlikely ) then you totally insult me by suggesting that instead of most of B class being rolled into A class that most of A class should be rolled into B class , in other words the exact opposite of my original suggestion in October.
( BTW that is supposed to be a bit of dry Canadian type humour , ironic but not offensive so please don't take any ...offense that is ) .


Also if you did succeed in shifting all cars including the 944 and 86-92 Supra ( cars not called pony cars or CNCPC ) and the Camaro /Mustang ( cars called pony cars or CCPC) into B class there will be bloody little left of A class .


For further comments I think we should switch to Jud's post as this one started about steering wheels . Interesting how things can change in a thread.

DAVE B

[craig]

Um, okay ... I'm not sure where this thread went, but I'll say this: there is no such thing as a fair car classification system. Every system isn't fair to your car - especially if it is a car you've just bought! :-)

Bruce: that was with the car having a decent alignment and ride height, both of which are gone now. OE alignment specs are set so one can sneeze on the Autobahn at 200km/hr without going into the next lane. Spec is 0deg camber, and the alignment spec tolerances are precise. In other words, in stock I will eat tires, and understeer horribly. Ride height is now about 2" higher as well, as the stock height has to meet US bumper regulations, but the car wasn't designed for it.

As for E36 M3's. one of those should be able to out-corner an S2, based on specs. There is no doubt the cage makes my car feel better, though.

Jud: As soon as the Targa Newfoundland was announced, my entire season changed. I will be running it, assuming we get in, and I can get the appropriate licensing (to be decided in a couple weeks). I may have to run the car in a regional performance rally, which should be interesting.

[Jud Buchanan]

Craig,

Glad to hear about someone else running the Targa - so far I know close to a dozen of the entries. As for your license, not to worry. It's my understanding that if you have some competition experience that they will use the two Prologue Stages to observe you. Call Bob he'll fill you in. What car will you be using and in what class?

Jud

[craig]

I've talked to Bob; my co-driver (Jim Morrow) has too. I know what he and Doug Mepham are proposing; I'll wait for the official word!

Also, I would rather have my co-driver run the two prologues and get his license so he can drive a special stage if need be. I'm not thrilled with having to perform in any case - suppose I spin on cold tires? Do they send us home?

Car: the 944S2, class 7SS (modern class, standard specification, 2.5 to 3.5l 1986-1991 if I remember this all correctly) - however it depends on the supps. If there is no 7SS I guess it'll be 7LM (limited modification). All "modern" competitors have to meet the same times, so our goal is to finish. What about you?

Are you running the YSWRS? I won't be at RdN; but will be at the rest. Look for me in the Toyota Camry "Wonder Wagon."

Craig - last-finisher at Defi des Glaces. :-)

[citanest]

Craig,

I wonder if you can give me some guidance as to what I need to do if I plan to remove my airbag...

Who do I have to tell?

thanks

[Moose]

Citanest....

Airbags are dangerous ... they deploy at an incredible velocity, if you are close enough it can kill you ... with this in mind you have to be VERY carefull when removing them, and storing them.
Your best source for information on YOUR particular car is the Shop Service manual for your car ... it will generally provide a step by step process for safe removal ... I have removed a couple from my cars, over the years ... using the Honda shop manual as a guide. It is not difficult, you just have to be carefull. However with an airbag removed ... the Airbag control box senses a problem (no conductivity because the airbag is gone) and at the very least will light up an idiot light .... however depending on the car, other functions may be effected. Again using the shop manual you can generally get around this as well.

Technically YOU are not supposed to remove them ... they are supposed to be removed by a certified shop ... and they will only remove them (permanently) with writen authourisation by the ministry .... However, the rules are kind of grey ... If I have read the rules correctly, you are supposed to get authorisation, and have it done through a shop BUT the rules do NOT state that YOU personally cannot remove the airbag ... It is quite vague.


There is an official process for requesting the removal of an airbag ... here is the link http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/air_bag_deact/english/index.htm

If you do some searches on the web you should find some further info on the legality etc....

Cheers

Moose

[Dave]

The Solo 1 rulebook allows for the removal of airbags, so no issue there. The problem is with the Ministry of Transportation, as Moose has pointed out. Going through the proper procedure with the Ministry will save you any worries about getting a ticket from a super trooper with an attitude, though I'm not sure what the Ministry's policy is on allowing airbag removal. Not sure if a "I'm going racing and want to remove my airbags" story will work with them. Sorry I can't be more help.

Dave

[ctheo]

I want to de-activiate the air bags so they don't deploy while on the track, but I want air bags on the street.

I can do this by simply removing the fuse.

Do I have to declare a mod because of the weight reduction, or should I just keep the fuse in the car so it's the same weight?

The car is a not a Monza.

[Brent]

No points for weight reduction but 1 point for modification of the electrical system.:D

[Dave]

Theo and Brent, you two freaks both need a good spanking and I know just the person for the job.....OOOOOooooh Mooooose!