Mods points question?

[EG-Six]

I was looking through the prep points section of the web site and was a little confused about the prep points. I have a 92 civic si with an integra GSR engine in it. In section 6a.b.c.d, it list the prep points for an engine swap (7 points) and a max combination of 10 points in section 6a,b,c,d combined. Fuel system, exhaust manifolds, etc, all all listed under this section. The thing is that my car has most of these parts changed from a civic to an integra (eg. exhaust mainfold is from an integra).....now is this included in the 7 points that was allocated for the swap or its 7 points for the swap, and 1 more point for the exhaust mainfold? Thanks.

Also, i didn't seen anything about prep points being allocated for performance exahust and after market shocks.....are these mods free in terms of prep points?

[Moose]

Hi, and welcome

Before I get to the prep points for your car I want to cover a couple of issues

1-Do not plan on all of the rules and points being the same for the 2002 year, the 2001 rule book will probably change a bit. The new rule book SHOULD be out in January.

2-Allowable mods are accumulated through the prep levels.
ie in stock class a catback exhaust and shocks(as long as ride height remains the same) are legal modifications and you do not have to claim points .... ever again. So as you climb up through the prep levels you accumulate many "free" mods.

3. The level of prep (modifications) determiines your class, and as you move up through the classes, you get more prep points and "free" mods. Stock - SuperStock 2(SS2) - SuperStock 1(SS1), Street Prepared(SP), Mod

4. The number of allowable prep points is determined by the class you car is in ... in your case it is currently in C2

You have 8 points availabe to you in CSS-1 and 13 points in CSP.

If you swap in a STOCK GSR motor, then all the stock components that come with it (that are required for the swap) are included(STOCK, ECU, Exhaust manifolds etc). ... for 7 points. But if you modify/replace any of the Stock components, you will be accesed prep points in sections 6A-6D) to a maximum of 3 additional points.


In C/SS-1, With the straight swap you have 1 point left, or in C/SP you will have 5 points left, PLUS what ever accumulated allowable mods, from Stock, Super stock, such as Cat back exhaust, Intake piping/air filter, shocks etc.

I, and a number of other HADA members have variously modified Civics (Hybrids inc) that we run at Solo 1 events so if you have any questions about what mods work, what don't ..please ask away !!!



Cheers

Moose

[EG-Six]

Thanks Moose!!!

To tell you exactly what i have in my car, i have catback exhaust, home made cold air intake, ITR rear sway bar, Apexi N1 coilovers, stock GSR engine swap, front and rear upper struct bars....i think those are all the parts that i have in my car. Now are you telling me this is my points break down based in the 2001 rule book?

GSR swap = 7pts
Home made intake = 1pt
ITR rear sway bar = 1pt
Shocks = free
Springs = 3pt
Sturct Bars = free
Exhaust = free

So if all the info i have given you is correct and assuming that i only have these mods, that will give me 12 pts which will put me in CSP.....right?

Also, i was looking at the website and noticed i can use a M95 heltmet or a SA95.....is this true? I was told by one of my friend that i can only use the SA95 but reading the rules, it says that i can use either one......so who is right?

Thanks again!

[Moose]

Very nice setup !!!!

Yes you are in CSP ... with 11 points.... in SS and above the air-intake and filter are free UP TO but not including the Throttle-body.

At the CSP level you have some other mods available to you that are worth looking at. I have listed them in order of importance(IMOHO)

-The best mod you can do to improve your racing is ... YOU !!!! sign up for the solo 1 school, or other Racing classes. Seat time and quality instruction will give you the biggest improvemnt in lap times.

-The second most important Mod you can do to your car to prep it for racing is ... rims and tires. I highly recommend that you invest in some race rubber . You will quickly trash MOST street tires at the track, which tend to be more expensive and last less than a set of Toyo RA1's which I highly reccommend. The Toyos, are long lasting(whole season), grip extreamly well, are cheap(about $175ea (205-50-15)), and are quite safe for the novice driver. Rims ... get the widest and lightest rims you can afford 6.5"minimum for 205's and 7" minimum for 225's. You can run narrower rims but you reduce the effective contact patch of the rubber.

-Brakes ... often overlooked but very important.

Most Honda street pads will quickly give up after a bunch of hot laps, I would reccomend to start with a good set of combi pads (street/trackcompound) such as Hawk HP+, Porterfield R4S, or Carbotech Panthers. These pads will work well on the street but also keep you out of the weeds on the track

Brake fluid ... Stock Honda brake fluid has a low boiling point and will cause brake fade after a number of hot laps ... Ford spec Brake fluid is a good, cheap upgrade and will hold up much better on the track.It can be bought at CDN Tire.

Honda Rotors are notorious for warping ... Change the front rotors out for Brembo OEM units, which are cheaper than Honda OEM. (NOT x-drilled or slotted, they tend to crack)


-Non OEM alignments are included in the springs points ... so you can add Front and rear camber correction ... Alignment is extremely important to maximise tire contact and tire wear. Honda's like Negative camber ... typically 2-2.5 degrees up front and 1.5-2 out back(depending on what tires you run.

-In CSP Transmission, Flywheel and an LSD may be added or modified ... the GSR motor has loads of power ... the problem is getting it to the ground ... A LSD is a very worthwhile mod as it allows the maximum amount of power to be transmitted to the ground. I very nice upgrade is the Type R transmission which has a LSD and better gear ratios ...

-You have unlimited engine internal mods for 3 points ... cams, pistons etc... But you do not have enough points ... Unless you change the Type R swaybar for a stock 13mm one and then compensate by using higher sping-rates in the rear.

Helmet ... all that is required is a M95 or better helmet, the SA95 helmets are required for cars with FULL roll cages. Remember you are protecting your Melon ... get the best helmet you can afford.

I hope this helps .... For more info on Honda related race tuning try www.hadamotorsport.com (shamless plug) We are a buch of hardcore racers who know Honda setups quite well.

[eg6na]

im new to this solo1 thing, but been around track days and stuff few times....
wondering what steps i have to take in regards to license, clubs, etc.....
really interested in joining solo1 year 2002.....
anybody can help me in the right direction???/ much appreciated.....
i drive a hybrid 92 hatch.

[Moose]

Check your email : 0

[EG-Six]

Moose:

Yeah...i could use a few lessons here and there. But i am going to wait till the new rule book comes out first. Rumour has it that next year, CSP would require rollbar and firesuit, which i don't think i will add to my daily driver.

About tires and brakes, those are actually the next items i am going to purchase for the upcoming season. For pads, i have decided on Hawk Blues and i am currently running motul RBF. Had my share of bad experience with brake fluid overheating on me!! Ruined all my fun at the track!! :mad:

Now about tires, i am not sure what to get. I was looking into Toyo RA1 or the Yoko A032R. From what i hear, the RA1 will give me better traction but life span will be shorter. The yoko will give me longer tire life at the expense of traction.......do you have any experience with A032R??

I already have a LSD on my car. Mine was a JDM swap and it came with a LSD. I think it's a Y21 tranny hence it should have the same gear ratios as the USDM ITR.

Lastly, with regards to the EG6na's question, do you think you can enlighten me as well? I think i should read up on it too.

Thanks!

[Moose]

Hi EG-6,



Snip>
Yeah...i could use a few lessons here and there. But i am going to wait till the new rule book comes out first. Rumour has it that next year, CSP would require rollbar and firesuit, which i don't think i will add to my daily driver.
<snip

At this point I do not think CSP cars will be required to have a roll-bar/firesuit for the 2002 year... however this may occur in a year or two ... hopefully CASC-OR will provide a minimum of 12 months warning so that current competitors can either de-prep their cars to SS or budget to add the Rollbar/cage

snip>
About tires and brakes, those are actually the next items i am going to purchase for the upcoming season. For pads, i have decided on Hawk Blues and i am currently running motul RBF. Had my share of bad experience with brake fluid overheating on me!! Ruined all my fun at the track!!
<snip

Hawk Blues are an awesome choice for the track ... I would recommned that you have two set of front pads and rotors. A track set and a road set(stock pads and rotors). They only take a couple of minutes to swap out, you do not have to worry about uneven wear caused by using two different sets of pads, and you will have a spare set at the track if you run into problems with your track set. The other thing you can do to improve rotor cooling is remove the front dust sheilds.

snip>
Now about tires, i am not sure what to get. I was looking into Toyo RA1 or the Yoko A032R. From what i hear, the RA1 will give me better traction but life span will be shorter. The yoko will give me longer tire life at the expense of traction.......do you have any experience with A032R??
<snip

I have used RA1's and BFG R1's personally, and driven on 032R's. The 032's last longer, but they do not seem to have near as much grip as the Toyo's. BUT the Toyos will last an entire season, and they will get better, not worse, as the season goes on. They do NOT seem to be much effected by heat-cycling. My last set of Toyos lasted an entire season, and then I used them for lapping the next season and they lasted almost the entire year. I would recommend them with out question.

snip>
I already have a LSD on my car. Mine was a JDM swap and it came with a LSD. I think it's a Y21 tranny hence it should have the same gear ratios as the USDM ITR.
<snip

EXCELENT !!!! this is one of the most importantant mods for high HP FWD cars.

snip>
Lastly, with regards to the EG6na's question, do you think you can enlighten me as well? I think i should read up on it too.

Thanks!
<snip

here is a bunch of standard questions and my responces ...

> what kinda license are we suppose to get, basic/ race?<

Basic/Ice Racing licence is all you need to Race in the Solo 1 series.

> when should we apply for this license, is there any test involved?<

No test ... you just have to fill out a form and pay $50 ... you can get more info on the forms here (2001) ... http://www.soloontario.com/info.htm

The easiest way to sign up is to attend the Solo 1 open house and you can
get the basic licence, and sign up for the events.
Here is the scedule ...

Open House - April 7th at Cedarbrae Volkswagen, hosted by OMSC

Solo 1 School - Shannonville Motorsport Park, May 11th (Fabi) and May 12th
(Nelson), hosted by TAC

Events 1 & 2 - Mosport Driver Development Track, May 18th and 19th, hosted
by OMSC

Events 3 & 4 - Shannonville Motorsport Park, June 15th (Fabi) 16th (Nelson),
hosted by HADA

Events 5 & 6 - Mosport Driver Development Track, July 6th and 7th, hosted by
BAC

Events 7 & 8 - Cayuga Raceway Park, July 27th and 28th, hosted by HADA

Events 9 & 10 - Shannonville Motorsport Park, August 10th (Pro) and 11th
(Nelson), hosted by TAC

Events 11 & 12 - Cayuga Raceway Park, August 24th and 25th, hosted by BAC

Events 13 & 14 - Shannonville Motorsport Park, September 14th (Pro) and 15th
(Fabi), hosted by OMSC.


**** I highly reccomend you take the school, it will prepare you for the track, plus you get alot of quality lap time ****


> what kinda track time we are getting on race day?<

On a typical day you get about 5-10 laps during the morning lapping session, and about 10 during the evening session(if time permits)

During the race, there is normally 4 heats ... each heat consists of 5 laps,
one warmup, three hot laps(timed) and one cool-down lap.

***often one of the clubs will host a lapping evening on the friday
night before the event, so you can get in some more practice***

> is passanger allowed?<

Yes, passengers are allowed as long as they sign the waiver, and have an approved helmet...this is a good way to learn the course ... go out with an experience driver and see where he turn in, brakes etc ... and then they can ride with you and critique your driving.

> and we have to be a member of a club, right?<

Yes, you have to be a member of a CASC affliated club, such as HADA ... HADA makes sense in your case, as we are Honda/Acura Club and we will be able to provide all kinds of race based info and help ..plus access to member groupbuys/special deals.

However ANY CASC affiliated club is acceptable. There is a list of clubs on Solo1 website here ... http://www.soloontario.com/clubs.htm


Cheers

Andrew aka Moose

[ctenche]

Moose, you're awesome. Talk about going out of your way to support the sport and talk up HADA. Atta boy!

EG-6, welcome to the money pit we call Solo 1 racing.

Hope to see you out next year.

[Dave]

The MOOSE is on the the LOOSE!

It would be great to have two more hybrids in HADA and it would be tons of fun having 6 HADA hybrids out at the track for the Solo 1 season! We've got 4 right now that compete regularly, with another in the making, so we could be up to 7 by the time summer rolls around :) How cool would that be!?

BTW, we'll be firming up all the revisions to the rulebook for 2002 next week so that it can go to print very soon. I should be able to update you on any relevant changes in terms of your hybrid Civics at that time, so I'll post here once everything has been ironed out.

Cheers and please considering coming out to the next HADA general meeting at 'Ice Sports' in Oakville on Wednesday, January 16th. Directions and details can be found on our website.

Cheers,
Dave

[Dave]

BTW guys, it's worth noting that both Yokohama and Kumho have tire contigency programs for 2002. Yokohama will be raffling off one set of competition tires every Solo 1 weekend to competitors exclusively competing on Yokohama r-compounds. Kumho will be giving away a $250 gift certificate at every Solo 1 weekend to competitors exclusively competing on Kumho r-compounds, and the competitor who finishes highest in the overall Solo 1 standings who competed exclusively on Kumhos will win 1 set of Kumho r-compounds too. This is probably worth considering when choosing your tires for the 2002 season, since winning a set of tires or a $250 coupon definitely helps reduce the cost of competing for the year! So far Toyo is not onboard with their own contigency program, but I believe the Solo 1 Director and his Marketing team will be trying very hard to recruit them for 2002.

In my personal experience, the Yokos don't seem to offer quite as much grip as the Toyos, which may be in part due to the softer sidewalls on the Yokos. But hey, I've only driven on the Yokos once at a lapping day in my friend's GSR, so I don't have much of an impression of them to be honest. Someone who has timed laps to compared different tire brands will be more helpful than me on this topic.

I don't know which brand lasts longer, although I can say from my own experience that Toyos last a LONG time! Kumhos seem to last about half (or less) as long as the Toyos, but they do offer significantly more grip. If you're looking for that extra few tenths of a second per lap, upgrading to the Kumhos is worth your while (and money). I'll probably end up competing on Kumhos for the Solo 1 series and do lapping days and Solo 2 on Toyos. I'm really looking forward to trying out the new Kumho 225/45-15's!

Cheers,
Dave

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave & Moose,

Great to see you guys help the recent recruits...the other clubs could learn a lot from HADA. In fact CASC could learn a lot. Case in point is the 2002 Solo 1 Schedule. Instead of CASC mailing me all this useless crap about some road racer getting penalized for not wearing Nomex socks, they could serve Solo 1 competitors better by emailing them the 2002 Solo 1 Schedule. When is HADA gonna start running the CASC Office?:)

BTW, the Kumho deal for 2002 is two $250.00 gift certificates per weekend.

Cheers,

Jud

[EG-Six]

Thanks for all the excellent info! I hope to see you all at SOLO 1 events next year. Please keep me posted with the release of the 2002 rule book. Once again, thank you very much.

[Dave]

Two $250 Kumho certificates per weekend! Great news and thanks for the correction.

I'll definitely be on Kumhos next season, as I was for most of last season. I'm really looking forward to trying out the new Ecsta V700 r-compounds since they come in a lower profile than the Victoracers in the size I run (225/45-15 compared to the 225/50-15's I normally have to run). Should help my gearing out a little bit :)

Jud, any news on how the Ecsta V700 compared to the Victoracer V700's? I see from the TireRack website that they both have a 50 treadwear rating, but is there any news on how sticky the new compound is compared to the Victoracers? I've heard various rumors and conflicting reports from people who have tried them already down in the States, but the only thing that seems to be universally agreed upon is that they have a stiffer sidewall than the Victoracers and that they behave very consistently and predictably.

Thanks for any info. Just trying to decide which type to order.

Dave

[ctenche]

Thanks for the compliments Jud. We wouldn't mind running the CASC office. We could spice things up a bit and bring it back down to earth were the competitors are. Anyone got the keys?

I won one of those $250 Kumho coupons last year. I was jumping for joy when they called my name - it was awesome. Anyway, I used it to order a set of the new Kumho compounds in a 225-45 series which I'm really looking forward to trying out. I ordered the tires in October but will be picking them up in the spring. I can't wait.

Only 4 more months until the open house and the start of lapping. Yahoooooooo!!!

[Jud Buchanan]

Dave Pratt:

Regarding you Kumho questions.

The Escta 700 is stiffer than the Victoracer 700. In general this type of construction means that more precise steering inputs will be required to extract the extra potential. All other things being equal, the smoothest drivers - guy like the John and Chris P. - tend to be quicker on a stiffer tire.

Hope this helps.

Tach it up!

Jud

[Dave]

Great! I'm smoother than Ron Jeremy at the Playboy mansion, so these new tires are made for me!!! :cool:

[Brent]

Hmmm, the Escta 700's make smooth drivers faster, well, I'm going to buy some anyway. The size 225/45/15 is what I am after. I wonder how well they slide?