Toronto Motorsports Park?

[Brent]

I was reading the schedule for 2002 and I noticed that some of the events are at Toronto Motorsports Park. What is, where is Toronto Motorsports Park? I have never heard of it. Is it new or am I.

[Moose]

It is what Cayuga is now called ...... I guess they felt that if people thought it was in TO they would make the trek out there


Damn Marketing guru's ... they all should be shot

[Shaman]

Heh. "Toronto". Boy, that's a loose generalization... it's like... three hours (as the traffic goes) from Toronto. :)

[Dave]

yeah, I'm not sure what the real benefit of changing the name from Cayuga to Toronto will be. I mean come on, it's well over an hour from Toronto! It's not like people are going to be fooled by this. I think they're marketing dollars would be a lot better spent trying to do obvious things like making their F2000 driving school/events more widely known for example.

But hey, what the hell do I know about marketing anyhow. I hate the way Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti name their cars so that you don't recognize the name of the car but rather then brand of the manufacturer, but it seems to work for them. Acura used to have some pretty cool names, like Legend, Vigor, and Integra. Now they have RL, CL, RSX, MDX, EL. Lamest names on the planet, but I guess that's the point. You're forced to just say I have an Acura, which they feel will give them more brand recognition.

Bah...marketing weasels be damned...except for Alec! :p

[ctenche]

Not only is Cayuga no where near Toronto but take a look at their new logo...

http://www.torontomotorsportspark.com/artwork/tmsplogo.gif

It's got the CN Tower in it. Like you can even see the CN Tower from Cayuga. Also, Cayuga already had a well recognized name which they could build on. I don't know what they were thinking.

My only guess is that they believed that everyone associated Cayuga with the drag strip and the Cayuga raceway (oval track) is not too far away so I guess they wanted to differentiate themselves.

Still...it's a stupid name.

[ADAM]

if you are in hamilton you can see it on a good day :)

maybe they thought that was close enough ?

[Dave]

Adam! Where you been hiding? How goes the turbo work? Will we be seeing you at the track this summer? Do tell :)

[Shaman]

Dave, read your private messages. Adam! Will I get to see turbocharged Nissan fury unleashed this summer?

[ADAM]

i have been hiding from my wife, cause i have gone way over budget :) the car is FINALLY working..i went thru hell and back...

1=overheating issues...blew headgasket...had to get custom rad built
2=melted and shorted out ignition system...had too buy another ignition system...
3=all the gaskets blew out..cause of bolts loosening..had to go buy special bolts...
4=fuel system..won't even go there :)
5=tuning it..won't go there
6=cost.. i am hiding :)

car is now ready to run :) so watch out wretched CSP hondas..ha ha ha ha this is the year of the NISSAN :)

car is tuned for the street..running a nice 10psi boost with ultra 94 no ignition retard..laying down 220rwhp and 231ftlbs torque..so it should be significantly quicker...than my 140rwhp and 130ftlbs NA motor that i used in previous years....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha i loved the power so much i have it on the street agian.... it is at a nice power level that is easy to handle..yet is very quick...

i got out once last year at the last solo 1 race..though the engine was overheating and i only was using 5psi boost..on street tires, and street camber..so if that is any indication of how my times will be it looks really good..maybe 55's on nelson will have to see?

how is your beast doing dave?
how is your home?

[Dave]

wow, that's great news about your car Adam! Glad to hear you finally got it all sorted out, and man can I ever relate to the budget thing :)

My car is doing fine, engine has been rebuilt and although I haven't been to the dyno yet I should be making about 210hp at the wheel. Less power than you, but in a lighter car I assume so we should have a really fun go of it this summer!

House is still standing, bills are still being paid, so I can't complain too much :)

See you at the Open House!
Dave

[ADAM]

well if you have 210..then easy you will be quicker top end..though torque may be another issue :)

[Dave]

yup, you've definitely got a big torque advantage on me... my car only makes about 145 lbs/ft but I don't plan on ever being below 7,000rpm so torque is a non-issue for me :p Of course I don't have any turbo lag to worry about either!

Woohoo, let the smack talk begin! :cool:

Peace and love,
Dave

[Shaman]

O.K. 502rwtq. :D Of course, it's all about getting it to the pavement... good luck on Fabi or Cayuga.

[Chris P]

watch out for the mighty 76hp CRX............ :o

Adam, Glad to here that your car is running. Dave, I took a little trip last year with Adam when the car was around 5psi and i would say that is was just as quick as the S2000. With 10psi you better watch out. :)

[Dave]

oh I'll be watching out alright...out my rear view mirror! :p

[ADAM]

smack talk
145ftlbs pahh thats honda power for you :)

yeah when i took chris out for a ride i was at 5psi..and the car was moving

at 10psi with standard ignition settings the car is really moving..roll on throttle i can smoke 2nd gear..i have 230ft lbs from 3000rpm to 5000rpm, and peak horsepower at 6000rpm...

wait until the high octane fuel comes out and the ignition is advanced a bit

went back to stock cam cause it made more power than that silly NA cam i had..

dave what does your honda weigh? i am at 2700lbs
so thats..12.27hp/lb and 11.74 ftlbs /lb

i guess if the honda cars get out of hand i could always raise up the boost a bit ..he he

as for that V8 with 502rwt...bring it on...what does that firebird weigh....6000lbs :) he he


the time has come for NISSAN to rule, all fear the power of the turbo..all beg for mercy :)

unless it blows up of course

[ADAM]

i was never a believer of torque...but now that i have a little its awesome..no more revving the piss out of the motor...it just pulls any rev ..any gear..i think that will work very well coming out of some of the corners?

all hondas must perish :)

[Shaman]

When I'm done this spring, that V8 will weigh about 3250 pounds with the cage and all, maybe less. But then it runs larger rubber, too. It was 3310 pounds wet, before I put the cage in. Not sure if I'll be trying to race this year or just coming out for shakedown runs. My intention is to make the car as reliable and as fast as possible this year so I'll be looking more for things to cure than for fast lap times to make points.

But, I'll be out for sure.

[Dave]

Nice bit of smack talk, Adam! I give you a 8.5 out of 10 on it :P

My Civic weighs 2054 lbs. in stock form. I've gutted the interior, added a chromoly rollcage (back section only right now, but will probably add the front half this spring), and added a bigger engine that adds about 75 lbs. I've also added bigger brakes so that adds a bit of weight. I've got some 'body & trim' points to work with because of the rollcage and fire extinguisher, so I may go with a fiberglass hood, lexan side windows, and no passenger seat but until I've got a tow vehicle and trailer I'll probably leave the body as it is. I don't street drive the car anymore, but I will be driving it to the track this summer I think.

Anyway, I think the weight I've removed and the weight I've added more or less cancel each other out. Add 75 lbs. for the bigger engine, add 50 lbs. for the half chromoly rollcage, and add 25 lbs for the bigger brakes. Subtract 50 lbs. for the stock front seats (33 lbs. each less the 16 lbs. racing seat) and just under 100 lbs. for the rest of the interior (yup, I've weighed all this stuff out), so I think my car weighs in at about 2050 lbs. With 210whp and 145wtq the car's power-to-weight ratios are 9.76 and 14.14 respectively. Not too shabby for a shitty little Honda :cool:

Lightness is a good thing. The car is really easy on tires, really easy on brakes (but has tons of stopping power with the Type R set-up I'm running) and is so tossable on the track. You can get the car out of shape in a corner and it's very easy to bring back.
I really enjoy driving it, which for me is the whole point. I'd love to be in the running for the overall next year, but if I was super concerned about that I wouldn't be posting all my trade secrets here :) What I'm looking foward to is being in a competitive class where we're battling it out over a few tenths of second with some of the other quick C-SP cars like Andre (who is apparently turbocharging his Miata), Hanif and the Corentco guys who picked up a lot of speed at the end of last season. 2002 should be a whole lot of fun in C-SP, at least I hope it is!

I'm actually toying with the idea of running the car in 'One Lap' in 2003 if I like the route/tracks chosen. I think I'd be pretty competitive in the 'Economy Car' class with this thing, based on the cars that have won the class in the past few years. When you think about it, 'One Lap' is one of the few relatively high profile race events (ie. gets coverage in all the major magazines) than an average Joe can afford to enter and even to relatively well on a modest budget, particularly in a class like 'Economy Car'. To be at the front of the overall or in some of the high performance classes you need big bucks and a monster car, but I think I could have a ton of fun in my little Civic puddlejumper in 'Economy Class' and it would be a hell of a lot of fun trying out some tracks in the U.S.

Who's coming with me!??! :)

Dave

[Shaman]

Hell, I'll go. :) I can appreciate the "easy on tires and brakes" comment. My car is not at all easy on either. What I should do is just break down and buy that Super 7, but the wife isn't crazy about the idea. :(

[ADAM]

hey neat... i was planning on going to 1 lap in 2004...

9.76hp/lb ehh.. thats pretty good..i would need 276rwhp to match that...hmmm possible but would put me at a boost level that might not be too happy?

it will be neat to see how torque comes into play..

turbo miata ehh..that will be quick.....it is amazing how a little power can increase your speed... ..though i was able to increase my top speed on the back straight from 145kph to 180kph...in the last event before my stock brakes gave out....

what do you think you will be able to do on the nelson this year?

[Shaman]

Whenever you calculate hp/# don't forget to add the weight of the driver and everything that would be in the car. For me, that's about 6.1lb/hp in the Firebird. But you'll also learn that the more power (especially torque) you have, the harder it is to use it.

If I were you Adam, I'd make sure that you had some Xylene kicking around on track day anyway, just for safety. That's what I plan to do this year... got a little ping from time to time, you never know.

[ADAM]

i might get an aquamist system? so far it runs great at 10psi on ultra 94...some of the guys have been able to run 15psi on 91...so i should be ok..i only have 9.1:1 comp ratio..so its not too high...and a very large intercooler as well..plus i have a ignition retard knob in the car if i have to back off a bit..

...your right the more power the harder it is to drive it.....it will be a really fun year....with i think CSP running some very fast times....

[Dave]

Hehe, I think Steve is pointing out that I weigh about a 100 lbs. more than Adam! My god do I ever need to hit the gym. I'm at 218 lbs. and counting. Sheesh! So yeah, that'll slow me down a bit on the Fabi straight, but think of all the added downforce I provide! ;) Adam, you weigh about 98 lbs., right? :eek:

Adam, you're still running on stock brakes??? You've doubled your wheel horsepower and you're still on stock brakes??? Have you gone mad? Loonie? Nuts? Loco? Brakes are good, they help you stop :p

Not sure what I'll do on Nelson. I did a 56.7 in the Prelude, which has a at-the-wheel power-to-weight ratio of 17.24 compared to my Civic at 9.76. Does that mean I'll be twice as fast? So I guess I'll be doing 28.35 sec laps at Nelson :D Or maybe not. I think I can get into the 54's at Nelson. I was doing mid to low 55's at a lapping day at Nelson last summer with an engine that wasn't assembled properly, so I should be a bit faster than that. I'm thinking mid to high 54's is possible on Nelson.

Time to go shovel the driveway,
Dave

[ADAM]

nope i am 145lbs so thats another 73lbs i have gained on you. ha ha..(its all those home cooked meals you are getting now)

no i have just upgraded them to 300zx TT 30mm rotor 4 piston aluminum ones(they are actually bolt on if you can believe it)brakes are free points right ? oh well since i removed my cam and put my passenger seat back in a have a few to spare anyway

i destroyed my front brakes at the one event i went too last year....they were almost on fire...

i am gonna say 55's for me on nelson..

[Dave]

oh cool, 300ZX TT brakes must be pretty good on your car since it's a good 500lbs. lighter than the Z car. Nice upgrade :)

My car probably has a slight edge on the tighter tracks like Nelson, but on the power tracks your turbo set-up should really shine I would think.

I gotta admit, I do have turbo envy. I love the sound of a blow-off valve. The whole 'ppssshhhttttt' thing is music to my ears. My next project car will either be a turbo or a V8. I still miss the days of my Dad's 400 hp Corvette. That thing was old-shool fun!

Ah well, we'll just have to work out the details of lap times this summer and hopefully we'll both have our engines intact when it's all said and done. It's going to be a fun summer!

Dave

[B18C5]

Yeah yeah yeah... you CSP guys are deluding yourselves! I'm going to make a movie this summer. I'm going to call it Indecent Preposition. It's going to be about how a CSS1 car takes over the world, starting with C class. Ha ha ha ha!

[Dave]

indecent preposition??? So your movie is going to be about bad grammar, or just bad spelling? :p

Well done Geo, I'm proeud of youz!

Dave (who is also hewked on foneks)

[B18C5]

Firkin spill chequers...

Aparently the movie I was going to make has already been done:

Indecent Proposition

Starring: Aaron Austin Alan Boyle Alex Amythest Chuck Barron Mark Andrews Mitch Taylor Randy White Stroker Taylor

Chuck Barron gets propositioned by a guy worth a million bucks and only two things stand in his way: his wife and his conscience. Watch Jim Steel's Indecent Proposition, and ask yourself what you'd do for a million dollars. . . if you were a hot, young boy.

Directed by: Jim Steel

I want to be a star someday... you know... like the big dipper.

[Dave]

nice work Geo! You went from posting about grammatically challenged people to a homoerotic porn :o If I was a moderator, I'd lock this thread down before it gets out of hand :p

[ADAM]

actually my blow off valve makes a "che che che" higher pitched noise like the rally cars do..:)

yeah the brakes should work way better..since they are off a much heavier car..and they are x-drilled as well to help dissapate the heat..guess i will see ....

NA cars are hard to beat..my turbo spools up pretty quick..but not as fast as NA :)


Originally posted by Dave
oh cool, 300ZX TT brakes must be pretty good on your car since it's a good 500lbs. lighter than the Z car. Nice upgrade :)

My car probably has a slight edge on the tighter tracks like Nelson, but on the power tracks your turbo set-up should really shine I would think.

I gotta admit, I do have turbo envy. I love the sound of a blow-off valve. The whole 'ppssshhhttttt' thing is music to my ears. My next project car will either be a turbo or a V8. I still miss the days of my Dad's 400 hp Corvette. That thing was old-shool fun!

Ah well, we'll just have to work out the details of lap times this summer and hopefully we'll both have our engines intact when it's all said and done. It's going to be a fun summer!

Dave

[slick]

Should be lots of fun this year.
I should have the car ready by at least June if not by May's event (love that Mosport DDT).

The SP Miata should sport a nice little ball-bearing turbo setup (10-12psi) on a complete stock block with proper fueling upgrades. Still gotta do some work on brakes and more suspension setup to handle all the extra power.
So Dave and I should be very close on paper..... Hmm...
Figure power and torque equal around the mid 200's.
That's all I'll say for now. How's that for smack talk?

Wait 'til next year when I upgrade to a 2.0L built 20psi Turbo? My goal is to have a triple duty car. Track, Street and sub-11 sec. 1/4's.
Gotta have dreams!

See you guys soon,

Andre
SlickPerformance.com

[Brent]

Dave, keeping with this CSP theme, am I allowed to swap a 2.4 litre engine out of a stratus and into my neon and stay in CSP? The bore is exactly the same as my 2.0L engine, just the stroke is longer. So according to last years rules, since the bore is the same, it should be OK, but 2.4L engines go in B class. I'm confused, also would a stroker kit on the 2.4 be legal?

[Dave]

Brent, it's not the stroke that matters in terms of the rulebook, it's the bore. If the bore size is not increased by more than 6.05mm going from the stock Neon engine to the Stratus engine than I believe it's a legal engine swap in this area. Looking at MSN Carpoint, it would appear the bore is the same on the Neon and Stratus so you're fine in this regard (they've increased displacement via stroke, something we did not factor into the rulebook). However, since the Stratus engine is 2429cc of displacement (2.429 L) I believe you'd be in violation of the "less than 2.4L" rule we have for C-family so the swap would be deemed illegal. However, if you could find a stroker kit for your Neon that keeps displacement just under 2.4L (ie. 2.39 L) or a 2.3x Litre 4cyl. Mopar engine (with a bore increase of no more than 6.05mm) then you'd be completely within the rules in my opinion.

Man, C/SP is looking like it'll be a real battle royale this year!

Dave

[Brent]

Dave, thanks for the information. I'm not sure if I will run in CSS1, CSP or at all. My car doesn't match up with the rules very well without spending lots of money. I may just end up going to club lapping days and some solo2's.

[Dave]

Brent, I REALLY don't want to discourage you from competing because you're exactly the sort of person we need to come out to Solo 1 and enjoy it. Obviously you want to have a competitive home for your Neon, and it's certainly reasonable to expect that. Here's what I recommend.

Option 1: to me, the most affordable way to get your car into a competitive environment is to actually take a few performance parts off your car and move down to C/SS2. This is going to be a whale of a class, with tons of well prepped cars, but the Neon is a really good competition chassis and since you've got lots of update/backdate possibilities with the R/T and ACR models (both of which are also C2 models of the same generation as your car, so you can bolt anything off those cars onto yours, excluding engine parts but including tranny parts, without needing any prep points). I suggest you take full advantage of this 'model variant' or update/backdate rule and bolt on all the best R/T and ACR stuff you can get your hands on. I don't know much about the ACR, but I have got to imagine it's got a bigger rear swaybar than your car, maybe bigger brakes?, perhaps a better tranny (LSD, tighter gear ratios, that kind of thing), and so on. Have a good look at Section 5.2.4 of the rulebook and really go to town on this as best you can. If you do decide to move down to C/SS2, you'll need all the performance you can get out of your 4 prep points. Suspension is what's going to make you competitive in C/SS2, so you've got to have really stiff spring rates, proper racing alignment (lots of negative camber, as much caster as you can get, some toe out up front, that sort of thing), so if you're running fairly mild springs (ie. progressive instead of linear), I'd suggest stepping up to a true racing spring with linear rates and stiff ones at that. There's a lot of time to be made in suspension set-up. You really only need to spend 3 points in suspension to go to a full coilover system with camber kits, so that last point you've got to spend in SS2 is crucial. I know you're an engine guy who wants more power, and I think with the model variant rule and an optimized race set-up in terms of your shocks/springs and camber kits, you can afford to spend this point on your engine. Woohoo! Since you've already got a cam (your car is a SOHC, right?) and cam gear I'd suggest sticking with those and optimizing your ignition and cam timing as best you can at the dyno. Camshaft substitution and cam gears have been bundled together into a single prep point in the 2002 rulebook, so you can use your remaining prep point in this area. I think you'll find some good power here and have a VERY competitive car in SS2 if you step up and go big on spring rates and suspension work. You could be a class leader in SS2, and all you really have to take off your car is the ported & polished cylinder head (sell it and upgrade your suspension parts) and ECU work. This may not be the direction you want to go, but I'm sure you'll be very competitive in this class. You could even apply for special dispensation to allow you to go to a DOHC engine from this gen of Neon since it's in the same root class as you. I'm pretty sure you'd be granted this since you're not doing anything except saving yourself the hassle of going out and buying a DOHC version of the exact same car. Do this and you've just picked up 18hp with a relatively simple engine swap (at a cost much lower than being competitive in C/SP) :)

Option 2: Apply for special dispensation to do the Stratus engine sway and run in SP. The Stratus engine is only a tiny tiny bit over the 2.4L C-family displacement cut-off and given the fact that there's a clear design relationship between your 2.0L Neon engine and the 2.4L Stratus engine I think you may be granted dispensation on this swap and allowed to run in C/SP. As a C/SP competitor I would not object to this ruling and I'm sure nobody else in C/SP would mind either.

I hope these ideas help and please don't get too discouraged, we need great competitors like yourself to find competitive homes for their cars and I'll certainly do everything I can to help you achieve this.

Cheers,
Dave

[Brent]

Dave, sorry for making you type all that.

The difference between my neon and an acr is small. The acr has rear disks, 16:1 steering rack, sway bars and konis. I have the sway bars , konis, higher rate linear springs, neg camber and it is a dohc.

C2 is not an option because there is no way I can catch a newer stock miata. CSS2, well I can barely beat Chris and Caius with my engine mods and if anyone with a new miata with 4 points in suspension work enters CSS2 we would all be cooked. CSS1, I had fun trying to catch George and Alec last season but I'm giving up 30hp and a limited slip differential. Also if anyone enters a newer miata with any work done to it, I won't be able to catch them either. CSP, well if I am willing to spend the money and give up on my car being my daily driver, I think I could compete.

As for taking performance parts off my car, sure and I'll get my wife a breast reduction too.

I am going to wait till the rules come out and then decide on what to do . Thanks for the replies Dave.

[Dave]

Hey Brent,

Seems like you've got the suspension and 'model variant' thing well under control. If you don't mind me asking in a public forum, what sort of spring rates are you running?

Since you've got the DOHC engine, I'm not sure why you feel the Miatas will be impossible to beat. The DOHC Neons and the 99+ Miatas have virtually identical power-to-weight ratios, though I will concede that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and the Miata is a fabulous performer. However, it was only a few years ago that Neons were regularly beating Miatas in our series. I also know that in SCCA racing in the U.S., Neons and Miatas have been very competitive with each other. Even better, I can recall more than a few stories of a Neon beating Eric in his Corvette at a Solo 2 event in the U.S., and Solo 2's in the U.S. are VERY fast, somewhere in between our version of Solo 1 and Solo 2.

Yes Steve and Andre were extremely fast in stock Miatas last year, as were Caius and Krispy in C/SS2, but it was your first year of Solo 1 and I think maybe you're being pretty hard on yourself by expecting to keep up with these veterans in your first year of competition. From what I've seen I think you're a really talented driver (love watching you drift thru the start/finish line on DDT!), but guys like Steve and Caius have had a lot more years to learn the subtle nuances of the tracks we compete on and the cars they drive.

Anyway, I'll shut up now because I'm sure you're sick of me by now :) I just hope we see you out at the track in 2002.

Dave

[Brent]

Dave, the spring rates are 225 in front and 185 in the rear. I will go to 315 front and 225 rear soon and that is about the limit for my konis.

[Dave]

315 front and 225 rear is still a pretty conservative set-up. Are your Konis yellows or reds? I ran 450 front and 650 rear on my Prelude on off-the-shelf Koni yellows and didn't seem to have any noticeable problems, though I could never quite get the suspension sorted out the way I wanted to. Pete Mills could give you a firm answer on how stiff you can go on off-the-shelf Konis, but one option is to have them revalved for whatever spring rates you want to run. As you're probably aware, most of us Honda guys run considerably stiffer springs in the rear than in the front. This helps get a FWD car to rotate in the corners. As an extreme example, the Speedvision Integra Type R's run 800 lbs. springs in the front and 1200 lbs. springs in the rear. I'm personally running 600 front and 850 rear but plan on going more aggressive this year. My car is still very neutral with a slight tendency to oversteer, which I like because the car rotates so nicely in corners but still feels very controllable. You may find your car gets through the corners better by going to a set-up that helps eliminate understeer and helps induce a some (or a lot, depending on your driving style and comfort level) oversteer. This seems to be the fast set-up for FWD cars.

Ok, I'm really going to shut up now :)

Dave

[Andretti]

Dave, could you check out my post? you seem to be the guy to ask this question.http://racing.kos.net/soloforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=474

Thank you!

[Chris P]

Brent, That's all the spring rate your running??

The of the self Koni Yellow's will handel 450's as that is what Pete M told me.

I have to agree about those Miata's. they are just too fast and it would make more sense to have them in A3. But whatever. I think the CRX may have seen it's last season of racing due to not being compeditive. :rolleyes:

Ofcourse i could spend $3,000 and put Side Draft webbers on my car and get a good 130hp or more.........wouldn't be very reliable or street firendly. And honda has so many good 130hp 1.5 or 1.6L engine's that would fit my car perfectly as they will a factory option in Japan. Too bad our rules are not friendly to this option. :eek:

[Shaman]

I'll have 1,200 pound springs in the front this year. :D

[ctenche]

1200 lb springs?!?!!! Good Lord, make sure sure you have your fillings checked after each event.

[Brent]

Dave,

The konis I have are the yellow ones, although they are black because I bought them from Mopar. I have heard stories of the yellow konis blowing seals when used with springs stiffer than what I am running. The only neon I know of that has stiffer springs in the rear than the front is the one Sport Compact Car is building and I thought that was a typo.

Chris,

Yes thats all the spring rate I am running and I think my car rides rough. If the yellow konis will take 450lb springs that would make quite a difference in body roll. I'll have to get an air ride seat out of an 18 wheeler to handle the bumps though.

Your CRX is not a good choice for an engine swap? Is that because of the bore difference? It is a nice light chassis to work with. If your not running the CRX then what? An S2000?

Chris and Dave,

Who is Pete Mills, just wondered before I risk blowing my shocks.

[Taylor]

Caius: Steve's car probably weighs 1200lbs more than yours though. :)

[Shaman]

Hmm. Actually I think it's more like 700 pounds. Which still ain't exactly a bag of groceries. :)

[ctheo]

This is Pete Mills, nuff said.
http://www.thespark.com/graphics/frontpage/jersey_kids/feb1_2002.jpg

Hi Pete!

Actually Pete works at Northern Performance/Marcor. They distribute Koni's to all the speed shops. He knows the product well. I think he raced a car before too, who knows?

I'm not sure your Koni's are the same as the aftermarket ones in terms of what spring rates thay could handle. Pete would know.

[Chris P]

OMG!!!!

That pic must go into the HADA files!!


Brent, If your shocks are truely koni Yellows then you have a life time warrenty......nuff said :)
No, the CRX is not a good candidate for a engine swap when you look at the other cars in C3 such as the 92-95 CIVIC or even the 2nd gen CRX. My car is a tin can to begin with. Add a Type R engine and the car would twist apart. Also, the 92-95 CIVIC has much better suspension geometry espicially when adding power. You can do things like throw some Type-R brakes and other various suspension parts on the car to. While the suspension swap option for my car are limited, VERY limited.

S2000? It no longer meets SOLO 1's roll over protection rule. So i guess we are both out of a ride. :rolleyes:

[Taylor]

Chris: I wouldn't totally discount the S2000 yet. I was part of a short discussion during Speedorama where we talked about the convertable rollover protection rule. There is a chance that the S2K might be allowed to run if the OEM hardtop is installed. Though I seriously doubt John was looking to spend 6K to be allowed to run the Stook. (This has little to do with the strength of the 40lb aluminum hard top) but more to do with the fact it would keep your dangly limbs and head and such from getting caught or scraped or what have you in a shiny-side-down situation.

I still think he can look into the Cusco bar, I was quite sure it was a bolt on to the factory locations (so it could be reverted within.. oooh.. 20-30 minutes. And it allowed operation of the softtop. Plus had the 2 inch clearance. Do some searching on s2000online.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=44745&highlight=rollbar

That's a thread that has a custom job done ($575US) and is apparently as high as it'll go still allowing operation of the top. The guy says he's 6'2" and it's still 1.5" over his head. I think that's a solution.

It's a shame the rule has been implemented and is not solidified (so close to the start of the new season) but I know that the biggest reason I stopped running the S2K was because of the lack of clearance the integrated roll hoops had for me. All for safety's sake.

[Taylor]

BTW, not being one to let sleeping dogs lie.. here is a post from someone who flipped it (on the street, no helmet) and walked away...

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=42375&highlight=rollbar

I still think the car should have this new rule applied to it, it just sucks to see it negatively affect current competitors. :/

I'm tempted to get that rollbar, it'd bring the S2K out for lapping days. :)

[Dave]

OMG that's not really a pic of Pete, is it?

Brent, Pete is a long-time Solo 1 competitor (who also raced in the Honda Michelin series and did some IT racing down in the U.S.) who works at Northern Motorsports/Marcor. He sells Koni for a living and has done for a long time. He knows Koni better than most of us know how to flush a toilet. He's a great guy, always willing to talk cars with interested people. Give him a shout at (905) 549-2206, tell him your a Solo 1 dude and I'm sure he'll have lots to say on the subject of Konis and Neon prep in general.

Man, that rolled S2000 doesn't look too encouraging to me. The way the headrest and rollover hoops buckled kind of scares me, and the windshield doesn't look like it exactly saved the day either. But hey, the guy survived so maybe both did their jobs just well enough to keep the guy alive. For me, seeing that picture just makes me appreciate a rollbar all the more.

Dave

[ctheo]

That's an artists rendering of what Pete looks like with his helmet off. Pretty cool eh?

I think that S2K held up rather well. I've seen hard top cars
(Jon K) that didn't hold up quite as well as that. I'm refering to the a pilars and window holding up, not the roll bar.

That Cusco looks like a good choice.

[Taylor]

Dave: The rear hoops supposadly bent forward when the car slid, he said they held up just fine, but I guess the forward/backward force was a little too much for the point where the pipe is flattened to be bolted/welded on the chassis.

Theo: Yeah I'd say the car held up quite well. It's not a resounding success but consider what a miata, or any other car without rear hoops would have looked like. The sad thing is all these S2000Online drivers rolling their cars. :) At least they're surviving, no helmet and all.

That bar (in the link I posted) isn't actually a Cusco, it's a custom job. Though I think I saw a photo of the Cusco one once and it was pretty similar in design.

[Chris P]

Maybe John will see this post........


as for rolling over? I would choose the S2000 over the CRX any day of the week.